Verdun was a bloodbath only slightly less awful than the Somme. 800k vs 1M casualties. Not to mention the 14M in the East during 1914-15. Serbs alone lost about 600l. Difference was that Verdun wasn't a British bloodbath. Just Germans and French. The opening statement is Anglo-centric.
Naval battles were quite different between the first and second wars. The first war it was mostly groups of ships stumbling around until they finally found an opponent, then tried to shoot each other in bad weather and light.
True enough. Brings to mind the Churchill quote when he was First Sea Lord “The true picture of a battle between modern battleships is not men of armor striking with heavy swords, but a battle of two eggshells striking each other with hammers”
The loss of the RN battlecruisers feeds this idea that most "dreadnoughts" were eggshells, but that's largely a misnomer. The battlecruiser losses at Jutland were more due to the RN's own failure to follow their own safety rules. Turret ammunition hatches were left open and more rounds and powder bags stored in the turrets; both done to reach higher rates of fire. Some battlecruisers like HMS Tiger survived multiple hits as did battleships like Warspite. Maybe Simon hit on some of this in his talk with Sal and mark? Will have to listen.
Please enable me to hear “live” your MidRats 1700 Sunday, I’m subscribed smpeljas@mac.com
Thank you! Nurse Jane
Please thank Mark for configuring his broadcast software.
I promised, even signed “Keyhole Clearance” to keep my communications as they were 1990-current. So NSA can track my every communication. I’m quite serious! I’m trying hard to protect my son, Captain (03) currently serving USAF, over there… Bombs, missiles, UAV’s are targeting his precious backside! Much obliged, very respectfully, Nurse Jane
Hey Nurse Jane, I saw your response to my question in the Riveside chat. Have you taken any of the Ted Stevens Center for Arctic Security Studies virtual courses? I see that they have their Arctic Regional Security Orientation Course (https://tedstevensarcticcenter.org/courses-seminars/) coming up in August and it is a suggested primer for all of their other offerings. I am just wondering if they are worth my time.
My first Arctic experience dates to 1980-1981 in Iceland, December, four days to familiarize myself with the territory. I was brought to Iceland by USAF, told to wait … the Navy Nurse Corps knew I was there… they didn’t need me, so I did what a good Naval Officer does..,goes out and about!
My destination was England…
I was told, “Iceland is closer to England than New Jersey.” I agreed and boarded the plane.
When the plane returned for me, the cargo door remained open for loading… very cold!
The plane took me to England and returned for me… my plan was to Recce Buckingham Palace, Oxford and Cambridge University. Mission accomplished.
USAF brought me back to Naval Base Charleston, S.C.
My second Arctic experience was 1986-1988, skiing the Laurentians, Canada, latitude was same as Moscow Russia, but the height was 7,000 feet above sea level, much colder and lots of snow! I skated the Rideau Canal in Ottawa. Canadian Customs allowed me to conduct business in my hotel room. I was taken to Montreal Canada to acclimate to conditions and weather. I spoke passable French. I was permitted to ride horses and jump fences in an arena… the Royal Canadian Mounted Police were very kind to me.
In 1975 I learned to snowmobile in Binghamton, New York … I skied Stow Vermont.
I highly recommend any Arctic Training because you will learn the importance of socks, gloves and face coverings! Hypothermia is real! So is frostbite. Leave no buddy behind! That means fabricate a cloth and attach to two pieces of wooden poles.. hitch your buddy and drag him out!
Sure… dig into the snow for shelter…
Sure, the fire needs a way up and out.
Body heat will keep you both warm.
Stabilize the wound… administer morphine for pain., hydrate.. and keep all food off the ground… bears are good sniffers so do not temp them.
NEC338X replied to your comment on Battle of Jutland at 110, with Simon Harley--on Midrats.
Hey Nurse Jane, I saw your response to my question in the Riveside chat. Have you taken any of the Ted Stevens Center for Arctic Security Studies virtual courses? I see that they have their Arctic Regional Security Orientation Course (https://tedstevensarcticcenter.org/courses-seminars/) coming up in August and it is a suggested primer for all of their other offerings. I am just wondering if they are worth my time.
Sigh. In the 9th ID in the Delta, the daily chatter among my rifle platoonmates — Valley Guys drafted from the cycle 'n surf population — continually returned to the relative merits of BSA, Triumph, Royal Enfield and Norton. 59 years later, and the go-to UK authority on Jutland is a sometime dealer in parts for those no-longer-British bikes. O tempora, O mores!
Verdun was a bloodbath only slightly less awful than the Somme. 800k vs 1M casualties. Not to mention the 14M in the East during 1914-15. Serbs alone lost about 600l. Difference was that Verdun wasn't a British bloodbath. Just Germans and French. The opening statement is Anglo-centric.
True, that opener is Anglo-centric. That aligns with the naval Battle of Jutland, which was also lacked French participation.
Did Beatty really do a 360? How'd that happen?
Naval battles were quite different between the first and second wars. The first war it was mostly groups of ships stumbling around until they finally found an opponent, then tried to shoot each other in bad weather and light.
True enough. Brings to mind the Churchill quote when he was First Sea Lord “The true picture of a battle between modern battleships is not men of armor striking with heavy swords, but a battle of two eggshells striking each other with hammers”
And in the 100 plus years, the hammers are bigger and the shells thinner
The loss of the RN battlecruisers feeds this idea that most "dreadnoughts" were eggshells, but that's largely a misnomer. The battlecruiser losses at Jutland were more due to the RN's own failure to follow their own safety rules. Turret ammunition hatches were left open and more rounds and powder bags stored in the turrets; both done to reach higher rates of fire. Some battlecruisers like HMS Tiger survived multiple hits as did battleships like Warspite. Maybe Simon hit on some of this in his talk with Sal and mark? Will have to listen.
CDR Salamander, good afternoon!
Please enable me to hear “live” your MidRats 1700 Sunday, I’m subscribed smpeljas@mac.com
Thank you! Nurse Jane
Please thank Mark for configuring his broadcast software.
I promised, even signed “Keyhole Clearance” to keep my communications as they were 1990-current. So NSA can track my every communication. I’m quite serious! I’m trying hard to protect my son, Captain (03) currently serving USAF, over there… Bombs, missiles, UAV’s are targeting his precious backside! Much obliged, very respectfully, Nurse Jane
Hey Nurse Jane, I saw your response to my question in the Riveside chat. Have you taken any of the Ted Stevens Center for Arctic Security Studies virtual courses? I see that they have their Arctic Regional Security Orientation Course (https://tedstevensarcticcenter.org/courses-seminars/) coming up in August and it is a suggested primer for all of their other offerings. I am just wondering if they are worth my time.
" Fear God and Dread Nought. "
NEC,
Thank you!
My first Arctic experience dates to 1980-1981 in Iceland, December, four days to familiarize myself with the territory. I was brought to Iceland by USAF, told to wait … the Navy Nurse Corps knew I was there… they didn’t need me, so I did what a good Naval Officer does..,goes out and about!
My destination was England…
I was told, “Iceland is closer to England than New Jersey.” I agreed and boarded the plane.
When the plane returned for me, the cargo door remained open for loading… very cold!
The plane took me to England and returned for me… my plan was to Recce Buckingham Palace, Oxford and Cambridge University. Mission accomplished.
USAF brought me back to Naval Base Charleston, S.C.
My second Arctic experience was 1986-1988, skiing the Laurentians, Canada, latitude was same as Moscow Russia, but the height was 7,000 feet above sea level, much colder and lots of snow! I skated the Rideau Canal in Ottawa. Canadian Customs allowed me to conduct business in my hotel room. I was taken to Montreal Canada to acclimate to conditions and weather. I spoke passable French. I was permitted to ride horses and jump fences in an arena… the Royal Canadian Mounted Police were very kind to me.
In 1975 I learned to snowmobile in Binghamton, New York … I skied Stow Vermont.
I highly recommend any Arctic Training because you will learn the importance of socks, gloves and face coverings! Hypothermia is real! So is frostbite. Leave no buddy behind! That means fabricate a cloth and attach to two pieces of wooden poles.. hitch your buddy and drag him out!
Sure… dig into the snow for shelter…
Sure, the fire needs a way up and out.
Body heat will keep you both warm.
Stabilize the wound… administer morphine for pain., hydrate.. and keep all food off the ground… bears are good sniffers so do not temp them.
Thank you for the referral… I’ll watch!
Respectfully yours,
Nurse Jane
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 28, 2026, at 7:39 PM, NEC338X <forum@mg1.substack.com> wrote:
CDR Salamander
NEC338X replied to your comment on Battle of Jutland at 110, with Simon Harley--on Midrats.
Hey Nurse Jane, I saw your response to my question in the Riveside chat. Have you taken any of the Ted Stevens Center for Arctic Security Studies virtual courses? I see that they have their Arctic Regional Security Orientation Course (https://tedstevensarcticcenter.org/courses-seminars/) coming up in August and it is a suggested primer for all of their other offerings. I am just wondering if they are worth my time.
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Sigh. In the 9th ID in the Delta, the daily chatter among my rifle platoonmates — Valley Guys drafted from the cycle 'n surf population — continually returned to the relative merits of BSA, Triumph, Royal Enfield and Norton. 59 years later, and the go-to UK authority on Jutland is a sometime dealer in parts for those no-longer-British bikes. O tempora, O mores!