170 Comments
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Brettbaker's avatar

I'm just a lowly lifetime civilian, but I unfortunately have faith in the ability of the Service Academies to find new ways to keep screwing up.

"We are shocked, surprised, and saddened to discover Cadet Lee, who bragged on his application his great-great-grandfather marched with Mao, is a CCP intelligence officer".

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John Cordle's avatar

Sal, what do you believe is the reason for the current lack of diversity in the USNA population, despite these policies? I looked at USNA admission data by state for the past 20 years, and found that the proportion of minority candidates compared to the population of the state they came from varied greatly, with the 11 southern states having a disproportionately lower percentage (in this case, of Black candidates) than the others. The worst? Mississippi, the home of Senator Stennis, who openly advocated for “100 per cent White” Military Units - and actively blocked Black candidates. In a fair and “Merit-Based” system, wouldn’t you expect a relatively even correlation? These impacts are generational. Maybe admissions criteria is not the best way to address the issue, but the data is there.

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Jared's avatar

Stennis died in the last millenium. As with so much of this hustling to keep racism alive, the transgressions date back 30 years or more. There is no equivalency between mission success and making the Academy look like the rest of the country. People make their own decisions based upon interest and culture. Scandinavian countries have demonstrated that sexual diversity in the workplace actually went down as policies became more equal between men and women. Under- or over-representation does not equal disparate impact.

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Pete's avatar

Agreed. No one seems to be too upset by the lack of diversity in the NBA

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Gundog15's avatar

With all due respect sir, “…the current lack of diversity in the USNA population…” is a non-issue now. The best and the brightest candidates should be the only criteria for selection to our service academies. Period.

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John Cordle's avatar

It’s only an issue for those impacted.

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Gundog15's avatar

Similar to my personal experience as a young enlisted man applying for a commissioning program and being told not to get my hopes up because “The last thing the Navy needs is another white male officer.” That’s DEI for you!

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John Cordle's avatar

That’s an unfortunate and unfair approach as well. Hopefully ignorant comments like that didn’t stop you!

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Gundog15's avatar

No sir, they did not. CWO2, retired after 24 years of honorable service.

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John Cordle's avatar

Awesome! Congratulations.

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Dale Flowers's avatar

BZ, Gundog. 7 applications here (NESEP, OCS, CWO, LDO), only "merited" twice.

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The Drill SGT's avatar

unfortunately those were pretty much the words of the USAF CS if you substitute pilot for officer

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Steve Pemberton's avatar

"It's only and issue for those impacted"...what about the rest of us, meaning the United States who rely on the military to protect us from all enemies? Shouldn't we have the best candidates possible, with the strongest desire to serve and best abilities to protect us?

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Aviation Sceptic's avatar

Again, respectfully, asking because I don't know. BUT: Impacts for those non-selected and selected are real. Impacts on those selected for the wrong reasons (which are legion) who fail because they were not up to the task are real. As are the impacts on the unfortunates they were supposed to be leading when they failed.

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Jetcal1's avatar

I'd happily bet that the vast majority of those "impacted" never got a competitive education and/or really don't care to attend an academy, or don't even know it exists.

Perhaps you should work with the teacher's unions to improve the education and awareness. Fix your feedstock.

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Guy Higgins's avatar

The "teachersʻ unions" do not exist, by their own admission, in order to improve or fix education. They exist for the benefit of their members, and therein lies the problem.

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Harry W's avatar

Don't forget that academy applicants are self-selecting. If they simply are not applying, there are other motivations.

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John Cordle's avatar

That is an excellent point. Thanks for the reminder. Lots of potential social and educational reasons for that dynamic!

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P Brig's avatar

Excellent and valid point. I haven't seen the recruitment and manning figures for the Regular Army lately, but at last tally they revealed that Blacks (for example) continued their long established preference for the combat support and combat service support branches vice the combat arms branches. There is nothing wrong with that, but simplistic "analyses" that decry Black representation in combat arms leadership and education selection entirely miss that vital reality. (Obviously, if a group is under-presented in the combat arms (in terms of that group's overall representation in the US population), then one would expect that fact to carry forward into the numbers for promotion, educational opportunities, and other selections). I expect the same dynamic is at play when examining application statistics for the service academies. How many fully qualified applicants from this or that ethnic, race, sex, etc. pool in a give year are there and are those numbers proportionally reflected in acceptance and graduation rates?

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Jetcal1's avatar

Perhaps you should look at the following;

1. Parents who discourage their children from serving

2. Scholarships for minorities

3. The poor public school education in predominantly black areas

4. General awareness

5. Disdain for military service in more moderately affluent families of any race.

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Fear the Goat_69's avatar

Great points! Although in MHO tangential to the issue, you have highlighted extremely important factors to those applying to the service academies and ROTC schools in general.

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Sicinnus's avatar

I couldn't find a link to twenty years worth of data however here is the link to the USNA 2028 class. https://usna.edu/Admissions/Apply/Class-Portrait.php

"COMPOSITION

Varsity athletics 91%

Community Service 75%

Captain/Co-Captain of Sports Team 58%

National Honor Society 51%

Student Body Leader 54%

Work Experience (>10 hrs/week) 41%"

If you are any minority and/or female in the South and you meet this profile combined with excellent SAT/ACT scores, every NCAA conference will be beating a path to your door. Unless you had a familial or fictive reason to join the military, why bother? High school career counselors will be pushing towards colleges and not service academies anyway.

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The Drill SGT's avatar

add that the Navy legacy is lower in the South. Army turf

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sid's avatar

The average non military exposed adolescent won't be able to tell difference these days...

https://x.com/SurfaceWarriors/status/1907856421867114556

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Fear the Goat_69's avatar

Well said. The brightest of the minority and most qualified graduates in High schools across the nation, unless a very close relative served, is steered away from the service academies and ROTC units.

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Nels Frostenson's avatar

Athletes follow a different entry process and many times there are compromised standards, like knowing a Midn will take 4 1/2 years to graduate. The students that struggled in classes and sought EI could not not do simple Algebra. This is a demographic representation of the US, not the best and brightest.

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sid's avatar
Apr 3Edited

What does Stennis have to do with anything today?

(Yes. I saw your USNI article...About how Stennis blocked nominations a half century ago.)

The mixed race population is rapidly growing across the South.

Puts a whole 'nother context on 'Race Relations' No?

Here is a little stat from Mississippi...

https://mississippitoday.org/2021/10/12/mississippi-non-white-population-is-growing-redistricting/

The percentage of Mississippians identifying as other than solely white or African American was 3.85% in 2010 and now stands at 7.36%,

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John Cordle's avatar

I address “why this matters now” in the article, after talking with past and current USNA Grads.

“If those nominations had included a proportion of Black candidates, the renewed affirmative action debate might be moot and the integration of military academies likely would have occurred much sooner than it did. Those lost nominations equate to generations of officers, mentors, role models, boosters, and alumni who could have encouraged subsequent generations of graduates.

The impact of this “unwritten rule” is stunning in its own right, but that may not be the most compelling reason for changing the name of the John C. Stennis; it is that it is offensive to Black Stennis sailors, some of whom reached out and told their stories. Sailors of all races assigned to the carrier, aware of the senator’s history of racism and opposition to civil rights, are choosing to not wear items emblazoned with his name ashore, an almost unheard of action for a member assigned to a ship or unit. One former John C. Stennis sailor said, “Every time I stepped across the quarterdeck, it felt like a slap in the face.” Another, a pilot, who learned the history of the carrier’s namesake after embarking, shared, “Every time I trapped on the deck after that, it was like an emotional gut punch.” Even the nickname of the ship—“Johnny Reb”—invokes the image of a white Confederate soldier, a tough fact for many members of the crew who may be asked to identify with that moniker. That Black sailors have fewer role models is a direct result of the actions of legislators such as Stennis. That this is the individual for whom their carrier is named robs them of something sailors on almost all other Navy ships have: a hero to look up to and emulate.”

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sid's avatar
Apr 3Edited

"Those lost nominations equate to generations of officers, mentors, role models, boosters, and alumni who could have encouraged subsequent generations of graduates."

You can't fix the past with imposing artificial barriers no different than those Stennis imposed a half century ago.

That is poisoning the future. No "might" about it.

Why are you not complaining as loudly about the USNS Harvey Milk?

Or are pedophiles more palatable than racists?

https://www.afa.net/the-stand/culture/2016/08/navy-set-to-honor-homosexual-predator/

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John Cordle's avatar

That’s a random quote in an article (that he “bragged” about being a pedophile) echoed as a conspiracy theory with no reference or evidence.

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sid's avatar
Apr 3Edited

Ok.

I see where you stand.

Harvey Milk's predilections are well known.

Oh.

I am certainly not homophobic, since thats where you are about to try and swab the tar brush.

I do have an issue with pedos going after kids.

You can overlook that behavior if you wish.

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John Cordle's avatar

You are correct, I removed that sentence. My mistake. But I still find no evidence of the pedophile accusation, other than a random statement by one individual. What am I missing?

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Jetcal1's avatar

It was rather amusing to see in their rush to sanitize the ship's names the Democrats ignored two of the biggest Democratic segregationists who fought against civil rights. Quite the hypocrisy don't you think?

Maybe Trump should rename the Vinson and Stennis.

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sid's avatar

And rename one of them USS Larry Flynt!!!

A real hero who had zero issues with race!

[inappropriate link inserted here]

A bona fide Vet too:

(far right standing... RD aboard the USS Enterprise)

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5b85c87d9772ae6c76718472/1535906077240-4V4B2YIAI113Y4D1W9WB/Larry+Flynt+1963+USS+Enterprise.png?format=1500w

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John Cordle's avatar

Unfortunately nobody rushed to change the names - we certainly tried to get both renamed. I’d love to see President Trump do it - plenty of better candidates!

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sid's avatar

Also, since Ceaser Chavez openly hated the Navy have you bothered to try and change that name?

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Jetcal1's avatar

Perhaps you should petition Trump.

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Jeff Edwards's avatar

I was in recruiting three years many years ago when we were also actively recruiting minorities. Three reasons for disqualification. Test scores, drugs and criminal history. With broken families and failed primary and secondary schools the outcome is predetermined.

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John Cordle's avatar

Which may be part of the reason for the former USNA policy. Lots of potential leaders lost to those dynamics.

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Gundog15's avatar

“Diversity and inclusion allow our academies to not just reflect how our country looks but are critical to mission readiness and strong national security.” Is that what our country really needs in our military? A bunch of overweight, Xanax-eating, entitled brats who need a “safe space” when the going gets rough?

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Dale Flowers's avatar

Mein Gott! Do you not understand the meaning of Inclusion? ☺

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Gundog15's avatar

"The act of including or the state of being included.” Okay, got it. But what does that really mean in regards to what our country currently looks like? "A new study from the Pentagon shows that 77% of young Americans would not qualify for military service without a waiver due to being overweight, using drugs or having mental and physical health problems.” So in order for the military to look more like our country, should this 77% be allowed to serve? Not likely.

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Dale Flowers's avatar

If woke logic was being used, then "Yes" it would and should be likely. I remember McNamara's Follies, Project 100,000, where we took in Cat 4 mental groups to teach them a skill. One in my boot camp company had a GCT/ARI combination of 20. He needed help tying his shoes. He graduated and was sent to Aviation Storekeeper school. You could pick one letter and stick with it in the multiple choice questions and probably score better than 20. {We had a SELRES when our FFG went NRF. He was failing to show up for drills so, per his contract, he was called in to be notified that he was being activated for 2 years of active duty. He laughed and said he was too fat to be in the Navy. He was. The Chief Corpsman opined that bootcamp would run the fat off of him and if that didn't work he might be kept around for a year of remedial PT before he was discharged. He shipped out. The lesson? You can try to remediate or if they are froward dirtbags just poke them in the eye with a sharp stick. You can't let the dirtbags win.}

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Aviation Sceptic's avatar

I'm asking, because I don't know.

Recap: The U.S. military exists to defend the nation. This requires the capability to break things, which can cause loss of life. When the "thing being broken" is the military of an adversary, the "breaking" will almost certainly result in significant loss of life. This mission / activity is like brain surgery or landing an aircraft: it is pass-fail, requiring the absolute best candidates to enter the program to maximize the best result. Failure results in disaster far beyond the battlefield.

How do we ensure this? Again, I'm asking because I don't know. Suggested emphasis for selection criteria: determine as best we can WHAT candidate criteria produce the best leaders for this pass-fail activity. The affirmative action, DEI based approach is a known failure. Don't reinforce failure. Find what works and reinforce that. Whatever that is. DEI (Didn't Earn It) is a known corrosive cancer-like agent. Cut it out.

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Sluggo's avatar

The DIE-Supe chick still needs firing. The mission is not complete until this is done. Can’t believe she wasn’t axed along with CNO. I say again: All that chick Supe could do back at my 45th in Sep24 was gush about the “46% diversity” (ie not white male) of the Brigade.

The USNA DIE-chick Supe is simply singing a new tune because that’s the way the wind is blowing…for now. At her core, she’s still all for DIE and race/gender bias, you can bet. A leopard doesn’t change its spots. She should be relieved. Immediately.

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Steel City's avatar

The 17 days it took the USNA to issue the policy change seems like an awful long time given the USNA's obvious love affair with DEI. Was there something unclear in the executive order that needed clarification from big Navy/OSD? I don't think so. Or was it USNA lawyers supported by USNA leadership trying every avenue to not comply before giving up?

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Sluggo's avatar

Exactly. You can BET the woke crowd running USNA was exploring EVERY possible way to preserve the racial and gender discrimination in awarding appointments, so loved by those leftists.

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The Drill SGT's avatar

change was to still are

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Sluggo's avatar

Good call…no doubt about it.

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Guy Higgins's avatar

Actually, VADM Davids dis-established the DEI office before President Trump took office. Of course, the Office of Engagement and Respect was stood up with the same staff, and I donʻt know what that means, but I suspect that changes are pretty cosmetic. More impotant, USNA Instructions havenʻt been changed.

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Sluggo's avatar

The “office” might have been disestablished, but CLEARLY the policies and practices weren’t. AGAIN, her enthusiasm over race and gender quotas and composition of the Brigade served as proof.

She is indicted by her own words. SECNAV, remove her now.

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Alan Gideon's avatar

OE&R = lipstick on a pig.

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Guy Higgins's avatar

I am deeply troubled. The Academy staff feels really good that they have in every midshipman company a mid who is charged with helping company-mates who are having trouble with academics, PT, and "respect." Even I can figure out how to ID someone having trouble with academics or PT. How the hell do you ID someone having trouble with respect? What is respect? Every human deserves to be treated in a dignified manner (doesn't not mean they are though), but respect is something you earn. I seriously doubt that anyone respected Wil Perdue (former NBA player whose job it was to mug the other teamʻs center or power forward) as a basketball player. He didnʻt earn it. No one respected Heath Schuler as an NFL QB - he didnʻt earn it.

How does a mid decide that a fellow mid isnʻt resentful of another mid? This smacks of the Soviet zampolits.

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Alan Gideon's avatar

That is Sal’s term for them.

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Sluggo's avatar

This long delay from the time the Commander in Chief issued the directive should be grounds for UCMJ proceedings against the DIE-Supe: Direct disobedience of an order; Dereliction of Duty.

Again, I’m stunned she’s still in command.

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Guy Higgins's avatar

Oh, come on, it takes a bureaucracy two days to take a day off.

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billrla's avatar

Sluggo: I won't attend reunions at my hallowed alma mater because I do not want to be subject to the bleatings of the College president, senior administrators and faculty.

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Sluggo's avatar

I certainly get that. I blew off my 40th because of the woke, depraved crap at the place. I only went to the 45th to see my buds (we ain’t getting any younger), some company-mates talked me into it. Last-minute decision to go. Did NOT do it for the school. Except for the class memorial service, class meeting, and Supe brief (🤮), I didn’t do any other thing on the Yard.

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OhioCoastie's avatar

Skipped my 30th for similar reasons. USCGA is still mired in the diversity swamp, and is still led by the clowns who put it there. I have no desire to encounter them or their cult.

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Sluggo's avatar

Great way to word it: cult. Describes perfectly the mindset of the “woke” DIE fools. Sadly, the ideology these fools implement is corrosive and destructive. Romans 1:22

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OhioCoastie's avatar

Given up to debased minds, indeed.

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Dale Flowers's avatar

You are too kind, Sluggo. Others might have said a skunk doesn't change its stripe and even if it did, the smell would linger.

Supe chick's chicken soup

Eat up me hearties, seconds?

It is to DIE for.

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Sluggo's avatar

LOL…yeah, I like your analogy better!

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Guy Higgins's avatar

First, I am adamantly opposed to DEI or Affirmative Action, and I know exactly why including the metrics showing that it is a scam. Second, ad hominem attacks like "chick" not only do nothing to enhance your argument, but turn some people against you. When someone attacks me in that way, I know Iʻm right.

If you expect that midshipmen will, demographically, roughly "look like America," then you would actually expect white males (or at least Whites) to be about 54% of the Brigade. The problem is that, according to the National Center for Educational Statistics, almost two thirds of Blacks and Hispanics are compelled to attend "poorly performing" public schools. That means that somewhere in the neighborhood of 320,000 young Black and Hispanic men and women leave high school each year without the preparation necessary to actually contribute to the national economy or security and particularly earn a spot in the inbound plebe class. That is what is technically known as an Fʻing waste. It also means that we should not expect the Brigade to "look like America," because America (spelled teachersʻ unions - which are different than teachers) is denying these kids the opportunity to earn a real education. There are other social pathologies "graciously conferred" on these same disadvantaged kids by the lofty intentions of our various governments, but those are for a different rant.

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Richard Bicker's avatar

So you figure non-union, college professors on sabbatical from each of the Ivies, top state, and every other college and university (except HBCUs) would do the trick to "prepare" this multitude for service in the US military? Interesting thought experiment. Any way to test it...?

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Guy Higgins's avatar

I donʻt think you need those kinds of qualifications to provide high school students with the opportunity to earn a good education. I got a pretty good education from Sister Mary Atilla the Hun and her horde. I validated four semesters (2 English and 2 French). You just need teachers of the same quality as those who staff the not "poorly performing" schools. One of the reasons that those schools are poor performers is that good entry level teachers donʻt want to teach in the inner city schools (which is what they are), and poor teachers from better schools tend to get Lateral Arabesqueʻd into those slots and are unwilling to give up their tenure. So, the inner city kids, in addition to those other pathologies I mentioned, get poor teachers and poor teachers result in poor school performance independent of the money thrown at the problem.

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Richard Bicker's avatar

Well, I went to a neighborhood junior high school that, um, transitioned in the space of three years from one with perfectly average and acceptable academic performance with 95% white students (and teachers) to one with abysmal performance (due to no teaching going on in chaotic classrooms, fights in halls, and smoking/drugs in bathrooms) with 40% black kids bussed in from the inner city. Teachers were, by and large, the same. Building was the same. Textbooks were the same. Only the students had changed. And that made all the difference.

In other words, you've got the cart before the horse. Not to worry, happens to the best of us, and the good news is it's easily fixable. Good luck.

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Guy Higgins's avatar

No, I think my horse and cart are in good order, but you hit on the results of the other pathologies. Youʻre right in that you canʻt teach in that environment, but even if they fixed the environment, the teachers are less than the best.

Several years ago, there was a news story about a DC school with almost 100% truancy rate. There was a single teacher, history I think, for whom kids came to school. They would attend his class and then leave the school.

Fixing those schools and ending the waste of those young minds is not a simple problem and it wonʻt be fixed by simple solutions.

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Richard Bicker's avatar

Yours is the triumph of hope over experience. Mine is the opposite. I'd rather be you...

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Sluggo's avatar

“Chick” is totally meant to be insulting. Her support of race and gender quotas erases any and all respect.

It took all I could do to not get up and walk out of her “brief” to my Class. In retrospect, I regret NOT getting up, turning my back to her, and walking out, as a demonstration of my disdain and lack of respect for this DIE racist and sexist USNA Superintendent.

Relieve her now.

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Jeff Edwards's avatar

Same true at AF academy

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P Brig's avatar

My 45th USMA class reunion is coming up, and I am hoping to hear (and see) a far different reality than we encountered at my 40th (under Biden, Austin, et. al.). As you note was the case at USNA, the emphasis on DEI at West Point and its pernicious first- and second-order effects were plain for all to see, and very disheartening.

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Ed Nelson's avatar

Use of “sex” instead of “gender” is also a positive sign.

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Highlander's avatar

I remember speaking to my congressman's aide in charge of nominations in 2014, who asked me "Do you have any minority in you? No? Then you're not getting in." She further explained I had met all the requirements and was a good candidate, but other candidates were close enough to my scores, and they weren't white so they'd get it. Sure enough, house and senate nominations weren't enough, and I didn't make the cut. Thankfully NROTC gave me a shot

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billrla's avatar

Highlander: Surely, somewhere, deep down in your genome, is a minority gene, just yearning to be free. Perhaps, creased earlobes, or lactose intolerance.

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The Drill SGT's avatar

any of those Unk's in the family tree were sure to be minorities

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Dale Flowers's avatar

I have some Welsh ancestry. Am proud to say I never used that race card.

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Highlander's avatar

They wouldn't let me pull the (south) African American card

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Steel City's avatar

Or MSU like the communist senator from Massachusetts.

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timactual's avatar

Which reminds me of the Christopher Walken/Dennis Hopper "eggplant" scene from "True Romance".

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timactual's avatar

I tend to think that unless you are from some backwater, isolated, inbred tribe speaking a language completely unrelated to the rest of humanity, you have some "minority" gene.

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michael hopper's avatar

I was thinking it would a shame to simply terminate all DEI hires. Maybe they could be retrained to teach something else, like celestial navigation. First we give them a practical exam to make sure they have an aptitude for navigation. We drop them off about 500 miles at sea in an old AMF sunfish with a chart, chronometer, sextant and an almanac. Anyone that makes it back has a job.

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Sicinnus's avatar

Those of Polynesian ancestry need not apply. Having learned to sail on a Alcort Sunfish, some parts of the South Pacific with a stretch of favorable weather and seas would be about their only chance to cross 500 NM for any but the most skilled.

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sid's avatar
Apr 3Edited

Sunfish... "Easy boat to learn how to sail. Damnably difficult to learn how to sail well."

Yes, the USNA has that fleet of boats, and they do participate in Collegiate sailing, which has a vanishingly small following. In short, their effort is all but totally invisible.

The Navy has actively marketed it's aversion to sailing...

https://youtu.be/IXuszu8V1Xc?si=1qbY3t6-Udv_gwyf&t=31

(if you know anything about sailing feel free to count the ways that this scene is all "movie magic". You can start with the fact that its San Francisco Bay not San Diego (if you see wind and wave conditions like that on San Diego Bay, and you are out sailing, you deserve your fate), and my personal favorite is where they nearly hour glass the Asym!!)

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Richard Bicker's avatar

I was thinking you were suggesting suitless EVAs from the space station to pick up the trash outside. Too bad, good idea.

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Alan Gideon's avatar

Sounds like a good final exam task. Survivors will be commissioned.

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sid's avatar
Apr 3Edited

Today's Navy cares not one nit about Seamanship.

A few months ago, I copied the USNA's English Department webpage here on The Porch.

There were lots of references to Gender Studies, Post Colonialism, ad nauseam, but ZERO references to "Nautical".

I'm sure it's just a coincidence, but a few weeks later the webpage was scrubbed of their preferred areas of study. Wish I had saved a screenshot....

https://www.usna.edu/EnglishDept/Faculty/index.php

Here is whats deemed important on their rejiggered web presence as of today (may be different tomorrow)...

https://www.usna.edu/EnglishDept/index.php

"English majors become experts in communications in the broadest sense. They learn to analyze literary works in a variety of styles and forms; to think critically about culture, identity, and representation; and to write about complex ideas with precision and clarity. These skills are invaluable in the fleet.

See the word "Nautical" anywhere?

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timactual's avatar

"to think critically about culture, identity, and representation"

And, ironically for English majors, their definition of "critical" thinking seems to be limited to "expressing adverse or disapproving comments or judgments."

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Pete's avatar

I am in favor of reparations for people alive today who were hurt by DEI AA EEO 1619, CRT, etc policies.

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Richard Bicker's avatar

Thomas Sowell "The Quest for Cosmic Justice"

Can't work, doesn't work, never will work. Only creates precedent for the other side to try their hand at righting the wrongs of the past. Better for all concerned to make fresh new pasts absent the ancient ills.

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Pete's avatar

What hasn’t Hegseth fired the superintendents of all five service academies all of whom worship DEI?

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M. Thompson's avatar

My line of thought is that he's building an iron-clad case to start firing people. If the Leviathan of DEI is going to exist, he's got to fight it.

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Pete's avatar

He can fire any flag officer at any time. Personally, I think a 50% reduction in the number of flags would be a good start.

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sid's avatar

When is she due to be relieved?

If it's soon, might be its not worth the trouble to sack her early.

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Pete's avatar

It sends a powerful message.

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sid's avatar

I won't dispute that.

She should be relieved for presenting such a slovenly appearance in front of the future of the US Navy...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/secdef/54424734891/

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Harry W's avatar

Nice to stop discriminating, better to weed out those selected through discrimination. They are sitting there like a poison in the system. Some, if not many, of the officers could affect promotion selection boards for up to 20 years.

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sid's avatar

Good news is that most of the DEI hires will be gone at the earliest opportunity.

They got their free college education, so zero incentive to stick around.

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Nigel Sutton's avatar

CDR Sal, Great article and thanks for keeping the press on this issue. I hope the new members (Sean Spicer being one of them) of USNA Board of Visitors will be on top of this to ensure that the Zampolits do not just rename or camoflage their DEI activities. Also, the Calvert Task Force should continue their efforts on exposing this DEI crap.

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Sicinnus's avatar

Jim Webb's musings from 1979 hold as much truth today at it did then. It is good to see a slow return by the academies to a course that is sculling the heavy seas of reality. I do pray that Congress will find a way to enshrine this into a public act lest we find ourselves returning to a DEIA course in four years.

"There is a place for women in our military, but not in combat. And their presence at institutions dedicated to the preparation of men for combat command is poisoning that preparation. By attempting to sexually sterilize the Naval Academy environment in the name of equality, this country has sterilized the whole process of combat leadership training, and our military forces are doomed to suffer the consequences.

Civilian political control over the military is a good principle, but too many people, especially those involved in the political process, have lost their understanding of what that principle means. The classic example of a military force beyond control of its country’s political system occurred during World War II in the Japanese Imperial Army, which took over Manchuria on its own initiative and informed the Japanese government after it had done so. The Japanese military machine was exercising its own judgment, not that of its nation. In attempting to avoid this extreme, the United States is dangerously near falling into the World War II German pratfall: a military system so paralyzed in every detail by the politcal process that it ceases to be able to control even its internal policies."

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The Drill SGT's avatar

"There is a place for women in our military, but not in combat. "

For the Army, I think there are a number of places women can contribute, but not "direct ground combat". Helo pilot check. ADA check MP check.

Ex was a non-combat O-6 NG type

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Richard Bicker's avatar

They're good at rules. Not so good at tough calls without a rulebook.

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Thomas's avatar

Hope you're getting a cut of that pension!

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The Drill SGT's avatar

nope, but that's fine. I saw too many Army guys ending up splitting pensions earn with sweat and blood

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sid's avatar

Mute testimony to the fact that the United States Navy has literally lost its sense of identity...

https://flic.kr/p/2qVmZcS

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Delta Bravo's avatar

Any metrics on how many "diverse" candidates serve out original obligation or stick with it for a career to maximize return on investment of a USNA degree versus "non-diverse" candidates?

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sid's avatar

I also wonder about the candidates who were accepted because of their sports skills...

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Thomas's avatar

I tend to the nerd side, but in my observation jocks are more charismatic leaders than nerds. There's a few movies about that, some of them comedies.

Charismatic leadership is important in many sectors of military operations, plus the physical abilities are good for infantry, SOF, etc.

A military led by grade grinds and test maxxers won't be good.

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sid's avatar

I am wondering how long they stay in the Navy on average.

" plus the physical abilities are good for infantry, SOF, etc."

Then they will be a better fit at West Point.

"A military led by grade grinds and test maxxers won't be good"

Leaders who want to be in a "Navy", and don't ascribe to sociological fads are better.

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Thomas's avatar

Well, there is the Naval Infantry, known as Marines.

Plus those quiet professionals who never talk about themselves, the SEALs.

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sid's avatar
Apr 3Edited

Still doesn't validate youesupposition.

And SEALs never talking about themselves?

That's a joke!

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/citations/ADA632178

I get it Thomas.

You are a dyed in the wool adherent to DEI.

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Thomas's avatar

Yes, it was a joke, Sid. Glad you spotted it.

I'm not a big fan of struggle sessions or lectures on "white supremacy."

On the other hand, I don't think it's right to ban books about white supremacy, Critical Race Theory, and Einstein's thoughts on racism.

As far as selection to the academies are concerned, you don't want to consider athletic ability and what that brings to the schools. You don't want to consider "diversity," which could mean a lot of things but includes somewhat mirroring the composition of the country and the enlisted force.

Presumably you don't want to consider disadvantaged backgrounds and give them a chance, that might be "equity." So what should be considered? Test scores and grades? Quality of high school of the applicant, with elite exclusive schools ranked higher? What's your selection criteria, considering the "needs of the Navy?"

We've had Affirmative Action for about 50 years. Is there a problem with the quality of the officer corps? I was enlisted in the Army and officer in the Navy. I served under and with all types of people. I didn't see an aggregate difference in quality of leadership and technical competence between black, white, and Hispanic officers. I didn't encounter any Asian-American officers closely.

There were some real duds and assholes among white officers, on the other hand I went to a school with Michelle Howard and you could see was a star even as a five-foot Lieutenant.

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Jetcal1's avatar

https://sports.yahoo.com/academy-athletes-could-jump-pro-170303569.html

Reserve recruiting. Quite the payback for taking up space at the academies and possibly over someone wanted an actual career as an officer.

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Dale Flowers's avatar

What a crock of...

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Flight-ER-Doc's avatar

The reason the US Military was as successful as it was, and as good for the United States as it was, is because it was a meritocracy. Most anyone could join, and the very best could achieve considerable greatness.

Affirmative action, by any name, breaks that.

Now, let me don my three layers of Nomex for protection, and ask:

What benefit do the service academies offer, at all? At one point, they offered courses in uniquely military topics, and graduated new officers ready to step up to their roles. Today, they are a college, offering typical college fare: The only unique feature they offer is a uniformly dressed student body, and a VERY expensive academic course.

Graduates from all the academies have to go to initial skills training for their first assigned duty. Infantry Basic Branch, PLC, surface warfare officer, flight training, maintenance officer training.... The academies graduate nobody qualified to do anything but attend more school.

What would be so different from simply doing away with the academies, perhaps even ROTC....Send all the officer candidates to OTS and teach them to salute and wear their uniform correctly (something that's hit and miss even at the Academies), then off to their specialty training. Instead of 4 years and a $half-million each, 3 months and a lot less.....

Such a program also offers much greater flexibility for surging during a war...

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Sicinnus's avatar

"At one point, they offered courses in uniquely military topics, and graduated new officers ready to step up to their roles. Today, they are a college, offering typical college fare" First change the student body, then change the faculty, finally restore the curriculm. I don't ken how it could proceed otherwise.

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Flight-ER-Doc's avatar

Why bother? The academies were established to teach skills not available anywhere in the US - civil (West Point) and naval (Canoe-U) engineering.

Lots of schools teach that now. Lots of schools teach aerodynamics, orbital mechanics (space stuff) too.

Note that other nations (the UK, France) have academies that are NOT universities.

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The Drill SGT's avatar

and ballistics for both

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Scott Shart's avatar

D H Mahan, who created the Military Academy, wrote that the purpose of West Point was to establish "a habit of thought". That is, he was looking for uniformity, not diversity. The idea was that in war, you didn't want to have to wonder how the officer to the left or right of you was going to react. In terms of Boyd's "OODA-loop" this probably equates to the "orientation" phase. How to get a large formation to orient itself, especially if using mission-type orders?

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The Drill SGT's avatar

and absolute honesty. When the galloper rides up and reports his commander has taken hill 721, you want to be damn sure that means "taken" rather than, "we're about ready to climb the hill"

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Alan Gideon's avatar

As a former bilge crawler, my COs expected me to have actually touched the problem I was reporting on.

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Flight-ER-Doc's avatar

I'm afraid that 'gun-decking' has transformed all services.

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Kevin's avatar

Most services have enough required training events that you need 400 training days to really do them. So...

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Flight-ER-Doc's avatar

We haven't had that for quite a while.

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