It is neither Congress nor the president that will ultimately end this madness; rather it falls on the Supreme Court of the United States to apply the clear and unambiguous law of the land. Their failure to do so in myriad documented cases of admissions and employment discrimination over many decades is a stain on American jurisprudence comparable to Roger Taney's Dred Scott decision in 1857.
There are a lot of stains on jurisprudence in the United States, and more so every day. We have too many political agents and too many jurists who believe in a "living constitution."
If the Supreme doesn't stand in soon to return the Judiciary to some semblance of "fit to purpose" it will be completely ignored and replaced by some other system.
From what I can tell, there is a solid block of 4 justices fully behind restricting the scope of actions by so-called "rogue" federal district judges. It is only CJ Roberts who continues to sit on the fence. I believe that once Roberts decides the threat to the power and high regard necessary for the Judiciary to function is sufficiently grave, we'll see a great deal of action in a very short period of time.
Perhaps the Chief Justice should read Sir Winston's observation, "It is a good thing that you have enemies. That means you have done something."
Pope Paul VII's draft encyclical Humanae Vitae reportedly included a part that would have allowed Catholics to use some forms of birth control, but a faction within the Vatican convinced him to reverse that position, because "…it would compromise the authority of the Papacy." Well, Humanae Vitae seems to have done the opposite. Most Catholics ignored the prohibition and lost trust in the Pope. Chief Justice Roberts appears to be headed in the same direction. His concern over the reputation of the Supreme Court is leading him to do a lot of fence sitting rather than ruling per the Constitution and letting the cards fall where they may.
Cdr Sal's data dump/analysis will take me the rest of the morning to read through and absorb. Lots of great work, Sal!
Setting that aside for a minute, I can't help but think that the Naval Academy has become so inherently rotten that the only long term remedy is for the Navy to shutter its campus and focus instead on getting its Officer Corps from other current sources like OCS and ROTC. Truth in advertising, I did not attend the USNA, but after getting my degree from a civilian institution I received my commission via OCS (a much cheaper option for the US taxpayer). And off I went to the fleet and did OK.
The one thing that remains an enduring memory is the USNA snobbery that pervades the Officer Corps, which I considered a passive form of bias and subtle discrimination throughout my thirty years in the USN. Mostly I ignored it, but every once in a while it would be annoying and (to me) cheapened the Navy. So while Sal's post discusses racial preferences getting into the USNA, I also feel that the USNA and its alumni have an over-inflated sense of worth.
If the USNA were to be shut down, I'd probably go and get a bottle of champagne and lop off the top with my sword. The USNA grounds would make a nice spot for a new VA hospital.
But maybe I'm just being a little too cranky before my second cup of Joe...
Ring knockers. I mentioned it to my dad and that is a term that dates back even as far as his commissioning in 1961.
I'm an ROTC grad, got a very good education at a public university, at my own expense + a bit of GI Bill type help for the first couple of years as a prior-enlisted, and then on scholarship. I know that whatever they paid to put me at a public university was significantly less than the cost of attending an Academy, because I did those comparisons when I originally applied to the Air Force Academy.
As an NROTC graduate, those who made a show of knocking their class ring on the table seemed to be trying to overcompensate for a lack of competence. Several years after getting my BS in ME from that fine old naval school, the University of New Mexico (miles of beach in any direction), the Navy sent me to MIT for a post-Masters degree in ocean engineering. After that, I wore my MIT class ring. Twice after that, I was in meetings with USNA grads who did actually tap their rings on a conference room table. I responded with mine, making sure they saw the logo. That solved that bit of silliness and we went back to discussing actual data.
Huzzah. Behaving like gentlemen. Lesser men might have left ring impressions on cheeks and foreheads. Never wore a ring on active duty and still don't. Too easy to get a finger snagged and yanked off. My class ring, Chaminade University class of '79, is in pristine condition. With the price of gold now, it is worth more than I paid for it. (Circa 1958, I had my silver Cub Scout ring get mashed flat on my left ring finger when a friend rolled up the rear car window on it. The finger turned purple before the ring got snipped off. I have a wedding ring too. Never wore it.)
Understood completely. After that first tour at David Taylor and NAVSEA, I wore only my wedding ring. Nearly lost that finger going down a ladder too fast, so I stopped wearing it. Second marriage, I put the new ring on. Same “almost” accident. Stopped wearing one, and still don’t. I know about the silicone rings, but my wife hasn’t pushed, so still no ring.
Majority of the meritocracy coming from 14.4% of our population. China(and globalists) have purchased/lobbied/blackmailed our military leadership to self destruct. And our leadership is too greedy or in some cases, too stupid(yes, by design)to know what they’ve done. China is laughing hysterically every time some US General defies the new Commander in Chief.
You're assuming that officers accessed through NROTC or OCS did not experience any such bias in admissions, education, or graduation. That is a patently wrong assumption as evidenced by the SFFA suits against Harvard and UNC.
I did not make such an assumption. I did state that the cost to the American taxpayer for me to obtain my commission was less than the USNA route. Way less. Last I read, it costs the taxpayer about four times than the ROTC route and more than eight times for an OCS route (source: CBO). Give or take. Which, considering the numbers in each class, adds up to a lot of DoD moulah. The difference between ROTC, OCS and USNA Ensigns in terms of ability is not really that different -- so one measure might be cost to the taxpayer for what you get on day one in the Fleet.
What you said was, "…focus instead on getting its Officer Corps from other current sources like OCS and ROTC." Nowhere did you address the far left atmosphere on many (most?) civilian campuses. Those Ivy League schools with all the anti-Israel and antisemitic protests have ROTC/NROTC programs. So, whether you intended to or not, you did assume that issue away. I'm part of a group aimed at dealing with those leftist leanings at USNA, but I'm unaware that there is any such effort for civilian schools (although POTUS may be doing something like that ad hoc).
I could care less about the Ivy League schools -- a true bunch of performative panty-waists. Look instead to Southern Universities and institutions like the Citadel and VMI. (And the University of North Georgia in particular, which has a phenomenal ROTC program that's generating some awesome leaders.) Forget the Ivy League -- a waste of effort to try to fix, and focus on the military's strength today, the South.
I also meant to ask: how do you assess your effort to try to shape the USNA (very admirable)? Is it a lost cause, or can that ship's wheel be put over before it runs aground?
Agree completely. Go to any dress parade and look at the composition of the leadership positions during the event. It absolutely defies a statistical analysis of the current percentages and composition of the brigade.
I had to deal with others getting special treatment or early registration in order to get the “special” professors. Others getting multiple chances when they went to an academic board. Amazing how I never had a football player in one of my engineering, math, or science classes.
I believe the ONLY thing that USNA appears to do without considering male/female and race is to continue to ask their alumni for donations. Why would I consider a contribution to help the madness continue?
This is a stain. The fact the supe had to “codify” that racism and discrimination would be prohibited for admissions, is all the evidence we need that indeed there was racial discrimination. It goes against everything we train to and instill in our service culture and yet there it is in plain sight and the lies that are told to defend the shame are often worse than the crime. Many people don’t like Trump, but his reelection has had consequences and this is one of them. A mighty one. A very good one.
The Various Military academies should be 100% merit-based. These institutions provide the military with leadership for the next century. I would rather they be intelligent and strategically forward-thinking than be chosen just because they can win a stupid football game.
The Military would be better served by having better than competent leaders rather than people who Didn't Earn It.
I mean, who wouldn't want the next McArthur instead of Devon the princess?
I dunno, Pete. Up until President Trump intervened by dying the DEI, Mac might have been a contender. His mother “kept his brown hair in long curls and dressed him in skirts until he was about eight years old.”
Merit reflects dimly, if at all, on the institutional leadership in any advantageous manner. It reflects solely on the individual and is therefore useless in promoting group identity over that of individual capability. That's a BIG problem for a "leadership" forced to operate in a political (and politically correct) environment and for whom rich rewards await if only they promote diversity and identity politics. Something's simply got to give way...and it does and will continue to do so until punishment replaces reward.
Easiest way to kill a significant part of the rot would be to eliminate USNA, USMA, USAFA from Division One sports, and throw them in Division Three where they belong (adjacent to the Coast Guard Academy and Merchant Marine Academy). When the money dries up, so does the influence. Force the coaches to become federal employees again. Gone will be the days of ridiculous salaries (privately funded) for coaching a service academy football team. It needs to happen as this conflict of interest is having a demonstrably negative impact on the Officer Corps. Pete H. could fix this problem tomorrow.
Just wait for the NIL arguments to come to the service academies! The kids will argue--rightly--that the sports teams function in a private space outside of the normal service academy bounds. AND THEY WOULD BE CORRECT. So, if this is the case, then how can we have these private entities influencing the Service Academies across the board to include admissions?!
To ensure the record is accurate, the academies have come out and declared themselves to be "unicorns" to which the NIL does not apply; however, to my knowledge and quick Google Fu, this has never been challenged in court....
I suppose a commander could make it a standing order* that participating in NIL deals was prohibited as an outside job that detracted from the job that they are paid to do...even if it is playing football.
*Thinking about that, maybe standing order isn't the best vehicle. You could probably find something in the UCMJ that applies and invoke that. Would be much cleaner. Probably.
But is that legal? Private entities profiting off of the name, image and likeness of student athletes is exactly what NIL was set up to resolve. The status of midshipmen and cadets as active duty military does not provide a relief in the written law or current case law to the duty of NCAA-affiliated universities and academies from having to provide compensation. The fact that private entities are profiting absolutely destroys the argument. Last year, the Navy football coach made $1.8M...
What value does participation in NCAA sports, at any division, provide to our military's warfighting capabilities? I would argue it provides no value. Let the athletics of the academies reflect the warfighter and be amongst the academies only. I don't know exactly what that would look like.
I don't know about that. From the time I was a plebe, over half a century ago, Navy football has been a great morale booster-- even when we are losing.
Also, the mids I knew on our team, were, to me, great leaders of men- not so much scholars, however. It’s an intangible measure—not something you can measure on the SAT. You know it when you see it.
Like General MacArthur said, “Give me an Army football player “. Same goes for Navy football players, again in my humble opinion and experience.
Sports has an important place, however the landscape of NCAA athletics has changed greatly, none more so than the current era of NIL-athletics and dominate influence of television contracts. Given the massive conference reorganizing that was witnessed this recent football off-season, combined with the NIL-landscape that is now a reality...there's no reason for the three service academies to be competing in the FBS subdivision and instead should be moved to FCS.
Decathlon? Duodecathlon, to add marksmanship and obstacle course events? Possibly *team* Duodecathlon, with the final score being the cumulative total of all members of a given team?
At least it would be *vaguely* related to some sort of warfighting capability...
Agree 100%. They recruit these hamburgers because they're good athletes, which means they're not being admitted because they would be good officers. If they go pro, they usually don't even have to serve out their commitments, which just goes to show how much the powers-that-be give a crap about them serving. Nope, it's about them winning ballgames because that's what's important in life.
We had this conflict between jocks and non-jocks going on half century ago. In the class of 1970, my class, we had football players who made the Sup’s list and Dean’s list. One of them was brigade commander and received a Fulbright scholarship.
The other day, I came across an article listing all of the football athletes who have won our country’s highest military honors—some posthumously. It was extensive.
PS: name a single navy football player in the National Football League.
Thanks Quartermaster. You are right. It was four years back then. Use to watch Roger work out and throw the football around back in ‘68, when I was doing my Pensacola 2nd class summer. I was then a linebacker at USNA but too bashful to ask Roger if I could join in. Should have so I’d have a better story to tell you.
Good job Kevin! One in a thousand maybe. Hats off to Joe for making it against great odds.
He doesn’t play very much, however. Almost not at all. But you are right, he’s the one guy still on a pro roster as far as I can tell.
So one guy currently who may have not served five years active. There’s a few others over the past 75 years, but hardly of significance. Roger the Dodger, would probably be the exception, but he put in at least three years.
Aye, my USAFA daughter was assaulted by a star sportsballer, who was never charged. He's now "protecting our nation". The USAFA football head coach salary was $700k during the 2018 season.
Jeff, I am very sorry to hear this. I have some friends who were USAFA. Accountability continues to plague our service academies, and, as documented here, the 'diversity' and 'division 1' sports focuses have further eroded trust both within and without the academies. I hope that she is healing, and knows that the heavy and just hand of the Lord will claim vengeance in the end.
I think we need to get away from this trend where we assume that the SCOTUS can fix all these problems. SCOTUS isn't any more capable of fixing the problems and is just as likely to cause the problems, based solely on a review of their history. The number of issues directly caused by SCOTUS rulings throughout our history is staggering and the founders never envisioned them having this much power. Congress needs to pass a law and preferably Congress needs to pass a Constitutional Amendment to be sent to the States.
"No entity using public funds shall use race as a factor or criteria in the awarding of any benefit".
Probably needs to be lawyered up a bit to make it loophole proof but there's a start.
The trick is to open the door for PRIVATE class action and individual lawsuits against the discriminating organizations. You see how quickly corporations chucked at least their more egregious DEI baggage when shareholder value was suddenly put at risk. Similarly, universities—Harvard excepted until the hardball game commences—and many cultural, media, and political organizations are being targeted by the Trump II administration where it counts to clean up their acts. They will or they will be no more.
One interesting bit of data is that the percentage of Hispanic students taking remedial math is significantly lower than than the percentage taking remedial English. I suspect that indicates that a lot of them are ESL, but it's worth pointing out.
The anomaly I noted was in Military Order of Merit. Whites ranked significantly higher there.
Looking at Academic Order of Merit, one might simply decide, well, the whites admitted were simply higher caliber person for person due to the discrimination. But AOM is not as skewed as MOM. Why?
My theory is that in looking to meet the race quota they are scooping kids that really weren't all that interested in going to USNA but somehow got hooked. It would be interesting to see MOM broken down by male vs female.
Or maybe I'm assuming MOM is more about interest and military aptitude than it really is and it's not a real reflection of one's true interest and desire of being a military professional.
We do in fact have a Navy that looks just like America.
Overweight, sloppy, rusty, pierced, unprofessional, and tied to a couch (pier) cuz there isn’t enough knowledge to fix our lives (clear casreps) and get out in the world (get underway).
Us old farts may have been in a navy without personal computers and the internet, but we could at least get thru REFTRA, send ordnance down range, and hoist a few with the division on deployment.
My wife and I went on a day cruise out of SD a year and a half ago. On our way back in, we saw a destroyer at the fueling pier ar Point Loma. It was a complete rustbucket. Very sad to see. Definitely not the Navy I remembered.
Having come through the US Marine Corps OCS/PLC program toward commissioning and serving as an 0302 Infantry Officer in the FMF, (circa 1974-78 active duty ‘78-‘82) the peer cohort of USNA graduates encountered were suboptimal, most did not want to be in the Corps and they preformed accordingly. We called them “ring knockers” it seemed that once they had been commissioned and finished their four years at the Academy that they were done even trying, and waiting out their 6 year commitment. Their lazy arrogance chaffed badly, and the enlisted Marines could spot a ring knocker a mile away and avoided them like the plaque, and had no respect for them. Respect is earned not demanded or handed over to USNA graduates just because…..This was a sad turn about for we had heard of the Jim Webb’s, Ollie North’s and Dong Ha Bridge RIpley’s. The rot apparently has gotten worse. It is a disgrace. Once possibility is that we get into a real peer to peer foe sea battle and America wakes up to burning and sinking US Navy ships of war and asks logically (after being told our Navy was unsinkable and infallible) how did this happen? The possibilities are endless and coming soon to a theater near you.
“In response, the Superintendent of the U.S. Naval Academy (USNA), Vice Admiral Yvette Davids, formally revised the Academy’s admissions policy on February 14, 2025.”…she only did because she HAD to. Just 5 short months prior, at my 45th, the DIE-loving Supe FULLY supported and defended the “diversity” (ie, NOT white-male) of the Brigade.
“Although USNA has insisted that its use of race was “limited” and “non-determinative,…” Not a flagpole high enough to run up the Bullshit flag on this…
“As always, the final victims here are those from self-identified racial minorities who would have been accepted regardless of their group but will always be tainted.”
Indeed, Sal. The esteemed Thomas Sowell has said that affirmative action (now re-imagined as DEI) cheapens and tarnishes genuine minority achievement. And let me add: DIE is blatantly racist and sexist. The implication is that without “institutional” help, women and minorities are unable to compete based on their skills and qualifications.
I don't know enough about unit cohesion principles and practices to have an opinion either way. That said, if the merit criteria are properly set and met, I see no immediate or compelling reason to disqualify any successful candidate based on sex, race, or other immutable characteristic. Am I missing something here?
Well, I do think unit cohesion and practices are issues. We haven't even been allowed to talk about such things.
And yes, I agree that it comes down to setting the merit criteria correctly. No team member should ever have reason to doubt that a teammate can pull his or her weight.
My son-in-law was a SeaBee who did his final tour as a career recruiter. He was so good at it that they had him recruiting officers. They had him tasked to recruit 2 Hispanic women (with Black women as a fallback) for the nuclear power program. He had a half dozen White males with STEM degrees eager to join, but could not put them in until he made the DEI quotas. The men waited until they lost interest in the Navy that had no interest in them. No win for anyone. My S-i-L never filled that DEI quota. That's probably why he only got 5 NAM/NCM's instead of 6.
Same kind of thing with the FAA's air traffic controller mess. FAA flushed the controller training pipeline of white males, many of military flying experience, and filled it instead with women and racial/ethnic minorities of no particular ability. As many of these naive and inexperienced trainees eventually washed out prior to becoming controllers, the pipeline was suddenly discovered to be devoid of the numbers of able trainees needed to staff ATC positions all around the country. We suffer from that lack today and will continue to do so until the training pipeline is finally re-established and filled with able candidates selected on merit rather than group identity.
Not USNA, but USAFA grad of 45+ years ago. Underlying assumption is that the academic / military training foundation of the institutions is sound, but the admissions process is broken / discriminatory. I'd posit that all three areas are broken, and have lost their way. Along with the overall sense of mission and purpose of DoD in general. A fish rots from the head (allegedly...eww). The "head" of DoD has been rotten (perhaps intentionally) for a couple of decades. The resultant culture from the turn of the century is our DoD is built to social engineer and enrich "stakeholders" (Senior DoD, Congress, and Military Industrial Complex (TM)), not defend the nation. I wish the best of luck to Pete Hegseth and other Trump appointees. The rot is deep and wide...
It is neither Congress nor the president that will ultimately end this madness; rather it falls on the Supreme Court of the United States to apply the clear and unambiguous law of the land. Their failure to do so in myriad documented cases of admissions and employment discrimination over many decades is a stain on American jurisprudence comparable to Roger Taney's Dred Scott decision in 1857.
There are a lot of stains on jurisprudence in the United States, and more so every day. We have too many political agents and too many jurists who believe in a "living constitution."
If the Supreme doesn't stand in soon to return the Judiciary to some semblance of "fit to purpose" it will be completely ignored and replaced by some other system.
From what I can tell, there is a solid block of 4 justices fully behind restricting the scope of actions by so-called "rogue" federal district judges. It is only CJ Roberts who continues to sit on the fence. I believe that once Roberts decides the threat to the power and high regard necessary for the Judiciary to function is sufficiently grave, we'll see a great deal of action in a very short period of time.
Hoping for same.
Perhaps the Chief Justice should read Sir Winston's observation, "It is a good thing that you have enemies. That means you have done something."
Pope Paul VII's draft encyclical Humanae Vitae reportedly included a part that would have allowed Catholics to use some forms of birth control, but a faction within the Vatican convinced him to reverse that position, because "…it would compromise the authority of the Papacy." Well, Humanae Vitae seems to have done the opposite. Most Catholics ignored the prohibition and lost trust in the Pope. Chief Justice Roberts appears to be headed in the same direction. His concern over the reputation of the Supreme Court is leading him to do a lot of fence sitting rather than ruling per the Constitution and letting the cards fall where they may.
Cdr Sal's data dump/analysis will take me the rest of the morning to read through and absorb. Lots of great work, Sal!
Setting that aside for a minute, I can't help but think that the Naval Academy has become so inherently rotten that the only long term remedy is for the Navy to shutter its campus and focus instead on getting its Officer Corps from other current sources like OCS and ROTC. Truth in advertising, I did not attend the USNA, but after getting my degree from a civilian institution I received my commission via OCS (a much cheaper option for the US taxpayer). And off I went to the fleet and did OK.
The one thing that remains an enduring memory is the USNA snobbery that pervades the Officer Corps, which I considered a passive form of bias and subtle discrimination throughout my thirty years in the USN. Mostly I ignored it, but every once in a while it would be annoying and (to me) cheapened the Navy. So while Sal's post discusses racial preferences getting into the USNA, I also feel that the USNA and its alumni have an over-inflated sense of worth.
If the USNA were to be shut down, I'd probably go and get a bottle of champagne and lop off the top with my sword. The USNA grounds would make a nice spot for a new VA hospital.
But maybe I'm just being a little too cranky before my second cup of Joe...
Ring knockers. I mentioned it to my dad and that is a term that dates back even as far as his commissioning in 1961.
I'm an ROTC grad, got a very good education at a public university, at my own expense + a bit of GI Bill type help for the first couple of years as a prior-enlisted, and then on scholarship. I know that whatever they paid to put me at a public university was significantly less than the cost of attending an Academy, because I did those comparisons when I originally applied to the Air Force Academy.
As an NROTC graduate, those who made a show of knocking their class ring on the table seemed to be trying to overcompensate for a lack of competence. Several years after getting my BS in ME from that fine old naval school, the University of New Mexico (miles of beach in any direction), the Navy sent me to MIT for a post-Masters degree in ocean engineering. After that, I wore my MIT class ring. Twice after that, I was in meetings with USNA grads who did actually tap their rings on a conference room table. I responded with mine, making sure they saw the logo. That solved that bit of silliness and we went back to discussing actual data.
Huzzah. Behaving like gentlemen. Lesser men might have left ring impressions on cheeks and foreheads. Never wore a ring on active duty and still don't. Too easy to get a finger snagged and yanked off. My class ring, Chaminade University class of '79, is in pristine condition. With the price of gold now, it is worth more than I paid for it. (Circa 1958, I had my silver Cub Scout ring get mashed flat on my left ring finger when a friend rolled up the rear car window on it. The finger turned purple before the ring got snipped off. I have a wedding ring too. Never wore it.)
Used to loop my wedding ring through my watch band for that reason. Started wearing a silicon stand-in wedding ring after that.
Understood completely. After that first tour at David Taylor and NAVSEA, I wore only my wedding ring. Nearly lost that finger going down a ladder too fast, so I stopped wearing it. Second marriage, I put the new ring on. Same “almost” accident. Stopped wearing one, and still don’t. I know about the silicone rings, but my wife hasn’t pushed, so still no ring.
Statistically impossible to have a
Majority of the meritocracy coming from 14.4% of our population. China(and globalists) have purchased/lobbied/blackmailed our military leadership to self destruct. And our leadership is too greedy or in some cases, too stupid(yes, by design)to know what they’ve done. China is laughing hysterically every time some US General defies the new Commander in Chief.
Utterly disgraceful and treasonous.
You're assuming that officers accessed through NROTC or OCS did not experience any such bias in admissions, education, or graduation. That is a patently wrong assumption as evidenced by the SFFA suits against Harvard and UNC.
I did not make such an assumption. I did state that the cost to the American taxpayer for me to obtain my commission was less than the USNA route. Way less. Last I read, it costs the taxpayer about four times than the ROTC route and more than eight times for an OCS route (source: CBO). Give or take. Which, considering the numbers in each class, adds up to a lot of DoD moulah. The difference between ROTC, OCS and USNA Ensigns in terms of ability is not really that different -- so one measure might be cost to the taxpayer for what you get on day one in the Fleet.
What you said was, "…focus instead on getting its Officer Corps from other current sources like OCS and ROTC." Nowhere did you address the far left atmosphere on many (most?) civilian campuses. Those Ivy League schools with all the anti-Israel and antisemitic protests have ROTC/NROTC programs. So, whether you intended to or not, you did assume that issue away. I'm part of a group aimed at dealing with those leftist leanings at USNA, but I'm unaware that there is any such effort for civilian schools (although POTUS may be doing something like that ad hoc).
I could care less about the Ivy League schools -- a true bunch of performative panty-waists. Look instead to Southern Universities and institutions like the Citadel and VMI. (And the University of North Georgia in particular, which has a phenomenal ROTC program that's generating some awesome leaders.) Forget the Ivy League -- a waste of effort to try to fix, and focus on the military's strength today, the South.
I also meant to ask: how do you assess your effort to try to shape the USNA (very admirable)? Is it a lost cause, or can that ship's wheel be put over before it runs aground?
Agree completely. Go to any dress parade and look at the composition of the leadership positions during the event. It absolutely defies a statistical analysis of the current percentages and composition of the brigade.
I had to deal with others getting special treatment or early registration in order to get the “special” professors. Others getting multiple chances when they went to an academic board. Amazing how I never had a football player in one of my engineering, math, or science classes.
I believe the ONLY thing that USNA appears to do without considering male/female and race is to continue to ask their alumni for donations. Why would I consider a contribution to help the madness continue?
USNA ‘84
I also stopped giving to the trade school (I just missed you). The Athletic association and the politicos have way too much influence in my opinion.
I am glad I went, but I would not recommend it to a young man today.
This is a stain. The fact the supe had to “codify” that racism and discrimination would be prohibited for admissions, is all the evidence we need that indeed there was racial discrimination. It goes against everything we train to and instill in our service culture and yet there it is in plain sight and the lies that are told to defend the shame are often worse than the crime. Many people don’t like Trump, but his reelection has had consequences and this is one of them. A mighty one. A very good one.
Supes were accessories to the crime
The Various Military academies should be 100% merit-based. These institutions provide the military with leadership for the next century. I would rather they be intelligent and strategically forward-thinking than be chosen just because they can win a stupid football game.
The Military would be better served by having better than competent leaders rather than people who Didn't Earn It.
I mean, who wouldn't want the next McArthur instead of Devon the princess?
Mac wouldn’t make it past O5 in todays military.
I dunno, Pete. Up until President Trump intervened by dying the DEI, Mac might have been a contender. His mother “kept his brown hair in long curls and dressed him in skirts until he was about eight years old.”
https://www.nytimes.com/1970/10/04/archives/the-years-of-macarthur-the-mamas-boy-who-became-the-stuff-of-legend.html
lol
Merit reflects dimly, if at all, on the institutional leadership in any advantageous manner. It reflects solely on the individual and is therefore useless in promoting group identity over that of individual capability. That's a BIG problem for a "leadership" forced to operate in a political (and politically correct) environment and for whom rich rewards await if only they promote diversity and identity politics. Something's simply got to give way...and it does and will continue to do so until punishment replaces reward.
Easiest way to kill a significant part of the rot would be to eliminate USNA, USMA, USAFA from Division One sports, and throw them in Division Three where they belong (adjacent to the Coast Guard Academy and Merchant Marine Academy). When the money dries up, so does the influence. Force the coaches to become federal employees again. Gone will be the days of ridiculous salaries (privately funded) for coaching a service academy football team. It needs to happen as this conflict of interest is having a demonstrably negative impact on the Officer Corps. Pete H. could fix this problem tomorrow.
^This. The Blue Chip athletes are definitely a big part of the problem.
Just wait for the NIL arguments to come to the service academies! The kids will argue--rightly--that the sports teams function in a private space outside of the normal service academy bounds. AND THEY WOULD BE CORRECT. So, if this is the case, then how can we have these private entities influencing the Service Academies across the board to include admissions?!
Yikes. Talk about contrary to good order and discipline. That will be a major problem.
To ensure the record is accurate, the academies have come out and declared themselves to be "unicorns" to which the NIL does not apply; however, to my knowledge and quick Google Fu, this has never been challenged in court....
I suppose a commander could make it a standing order* that participating in NIL deals was prohibited as an outside job that detracted from the job that they are paid to do...even if it is playing football.
*Thinking about that, maybe standing order isn't the best vehicle. You could probably find something in the UCMJ that applies and invoke that. Would be much cleaner. Probably.
But is that legal? Private entities profiting off of the name, image and likeness of student athletes is exactly what NIL was set up to resolve. The status of midshipmen and cadets as active duty military does not provide a relief in the written law or current case law to the duty of NCAA-affiliated universities and academies from having to provide compensation. The fact that private entities are profiting absolutely destroys the argument. Last year, the Navy football coach made $1.8M...
On that front I say, "Go Navy! And take the Army with you!"
Huzzah!
There's an old shipmate I recognize!
What value does participation in NCAA sports, at any division, provide to our military's warfighting capabilities? I would argue it provides no value. Let the athletics of the academies reflect the warfighter and be amongst the academies only. I don't know exactly what that would look like.
I don't know about that. From the time I was a plebe, over half a century ago, Navy football has been a great morale booster-- even when we are losing.
Also, the mids I knew on our team, were, to me, great leaders of men- not so much scholars, however. It’s an intangible measure—not something you can measure on the SAT. You know it when you see it.
Like General MacArthur said, “Give me an Army football player “. Same goes for Navy football players, again in my humble opinion and experience.
Erik:
Class of ‘77 Boat Schooler here!
Sports has an important place, however the landscape of NCAA athletics has changed greatly, none more so than the current era of NIL-athletics and dominate influence of television contracts. Given the massive conference reorganizing that was witnessed this recent football off-season, combined with the NIL-landscape that is now a reality...there's no reason for the three service academies to be competing in the FBS subdivision and instead should be moved to FCS.
> I don't know exactly what that would look like.
Decathlon? Duodecathlon, to add marksmanship and obstacle course events? Possibly *team* Duodecathlon, with the final score being the cumulative total of all members of a given team?
At least it would be *vaguely* related to some sort of warfighting capability...
Agree 100%. They recruit these hamburgers because they're good athletes, which means they're not being admitted because they would be good officers. If they go pro, they usually don't even have to serve out their commitments, which just goes to show how much the powers-that-be give a crap about them serving. Nope, it's about them winning ballgames because that's what's important in life.
We had this conflict between jocks and non-jocks going on half century ago. In the class of 1970, my class, we had football players who made the Sup’s list and Dean’s list. One of them was brigade commander and received a Fulbright scholarship.
The other day, I came across an article listing all of the football athletes who have won our country’s highest military honors—some posthumously. It was extensive.
PS: name a single navy football player in the National Football League.
Joe Cardona - Patriots
IIRC, Roger Staubach was Navy adn served his obligation before going to the NFL.
Thanks Quartermaster. You are right. It was four years back then. Use to watch Roger work out and throw the football around back in ‘68, when I was doing my Pensacola 2nd class summer. I was then a linebacker at USNA but too bashful to ask Roger if I could join in. Should have so I’d have a better story to tell you.
Good job Kevin! One in a thousand maybe. Hats off to Joe for making it against great odds.
He doesn’t play very much, however. Almost not at all. But you are right, he’s the one guy still on a pro roster as far as I can tell.
So one guy currently who may have not served five years active. There’s a few others over the past 75 years, but hardly of significance. Roger the Dodger, would probably be the exception, but he put in at least three years.
Aye, my USAFA daughter was assaulted by a star sportsballer, who was never charged. He's now "protecting our nation". The USAFA football head coach salary was $700k during the 2018 season.
Jeff, I am very sorry to hear this. I have some friends who were USAFA. Accountability continues to plague our service academies, and, as documented here, the 'diversity' and 'division 1' sports focuses have further eroded trust both within and without the academies. I hope that she is healing, and knows that the heavy and just hand of the Lord will claim vengeance in the end.
Bring back 150s Football!
That's like saying a dog under 70 pounds--I don't know what that is, but it's not a dog ;-)
I think we need to get away from this trend where we assume that the SCOTUS can fix all these problems. SCOTUS isn't any more capable of fixing the problems and is just as likely to cause the problems, based solely on a review of their history. The number of issues directly caused by SCOTUS rulings throughout our history is staggering and the founders never envisioned them having this much power. Congress needs to pass a law and preferably Congress needs to pass a Constitutional Amendment to be sent to the States.
"No entity using public funds shall use race as a factor or criteria in the awarding of any benefit".
Probably needs to be lawyered up a bit to make it loophole proof but there's a start.
Actually, that is one way of reading the 14th Amendment. Now for the application.
The trick is to open the door for PRIVATE class action and individual lawsuits against the discriminating organizations. You see how quickly corporations chucked at least their more egregious DEI baggage when shareholder value was suddenly put at risk. Similarly, universities—Harvard excepted until the hardball game commences—and many cultural, media, and political organizations are being targeted by the Trump II administration where it counts to clean up their acts. They will or they will be no more.
One interesting bit of data is that the percentage of Hispanic students taking remedial math is significantly lower than than the percentage taking remedial English. I suspect that indicates that a lot of them are ESL, but it's worth pointing out.
The anomaly I noted was in Military Order of Merit. Whites ranked significantly higher there.
Looking at Academic Order of Merit, one might simply decide, well, the whites admitted were simply higher caliber person for person due to the discrimination. But AOM is not as skewed as MOM. Why?
My theory is that in looking to meet the race quota they are scooping kids that really weren't all that interested in going to USNA but somehow got hooked. It would be interesting to see MOM broken down by male vs female.
Or maybe I'm assuming MOM is more about interest and military aptitude than it really is and it's not a real reflection of one's true interest and desire of being a military professional.
We do in fact have a Navy that looks just like America.
Overweight, sloppy, rusty, pierced, unprofessional, and tied to a couch (pier) cuz there isn’t enough knowledge to fix our lives (clear casreps) and get out in the world (get underway).
Us old farts may have been in a navy without personal computers and the internet, but we could at least get thru REFTRA, send ordnance down range, and hoist a few with the division on deployment.
Sad commentary.
My wife and I went on a day cruise out of SD a year and a half ago. On our way back in, we saw a destroyer at the fueling pier ar Point Loma. It was a complete rustbucket. Very sad to see. Definitely not the Navy I remembered.
Having come through the US Marine Corps OCS/PLC program toward commissioning and serving as an 0302 Infantry Officer in the FMF, (circa 1974-78 active duty ‘78-‘82) the peer cohort of USNA graduates encountered were suboptimal, most did not want to be in the Corps and they preformed accordingly. We called them “ring knockers” it seemed that once they had been commissioned and finished their four years at the Academy that they were done even trying, and waiting out their 6 year commitment. Their lazy arrogance chaffed badly, and the enlisted Marines could spot a ring knocker a mile away and avoided them like the plaque, and had no respect for them. Respect is earned not demanded or handed over to USNA graduates just because…..This was a sad turn about for we had heard of the Jim Webb’s, Ollie North’s and Dong Ha Bridge RIpley’s. The rot apparently has gotten worse. It is a disgrace. Once possibility is that we get into a real peer to peer foe sea battle and America wakes up to burning and sinking US Navy ships of war and asks logically (after being told our Navy was unsinkable and infallible) how did this happen? The possibilities are endless and coming soon to a theater near you.
The real mystery is why the DIE-supporting racist and sexist Supe hasn’t been relieved? W. T. F.
“In response, the Superintendent of the U.S. Naval Academy (USNA), Vice Admiral Yvette Davids, formally revised the Academy’s admissions policy on February 14, 2025.”…she only did because she HAD to. Just 5 short months prior, at my 45th, the DIE-loving Supe FULLY supported and defended the “diversity” (ie, NOT white-male) of the Brigade.
Why is she still in office? Unreal.
Worse she was at the WH when Trump presented a trophy to the midshipmen.
YES!! Should have been fired on the spot.
All I can figure is she must have pictures of Trump nekkid with a donkey in a Tijuana whorehouse, or something…
As long as he didn’t give the donkey any hush money it won’t be a problem.
LOLOL
“Although USNA has insisted that its use of race was “limited” and “non-determinative,…” Not a flagpole high enough to run up the Bullshit flag on this…
Why hasn’t Trump fired the superintendents of all five service academies? That will send a very powerful message.
Wouldn't you have to identify really good replacements? How difficult is that to do right now?
Take me take me 10 minutes to do so.
Actually it might be more difficult to find people worse than the current bunch.
“As always, the final victims here are those from self-identified racial minorities who would have been accepted regardless of their group but will always be tainted.”
Indeed, Sal. The esteemed Thomas Sowell has said that affirmative action (now re-imagined as DEI) cheapens and tarnishes genuine minority achievement. And let me add: DIE is blatantly racist and sexist. The implication is that without “institutional” help, women and minorities are unable to compete based on their skills and qualifications.
And for women, at least, there will be areas where we can't compete with men. So be it.
No reason you can't compete. Now, winning is a different story...
Agree, in general. But there are areas, such as Special Forces, that I don't see where that makes sense. Ymmv.
I don't know enough about unit cohesion principles and practices to have an opinion either way. That said, if the merit criteria are properly set and met, I see no immediate or compelling reason to disqualify any successful candidate based on sex, race, or other immutable characteristic. Am I missing something here?
Well, I do think unit cohesion and practices are issues. We haven't even been allowed to talk about such things.
And yes, I agree that it comes down to setting the merit criteria correctly. No team member should ever have reason to doubt that a teammate can pull his or her weight.
The real final victims are those who didn't get to join the military at all because they didn't have the right skin color for the DEI nonsense
My son-in-law was a SeaBee who did his final tour as a career recruiter. He was so good at it that they had him recruiting officers. They had him tasked to recruit 2 Hispanic women (with Black women as a fallback) for the nuclear power program. He had a half dozen White males with STEM degrees eager to join, but could not put them in until he made the DEI quotas. The men waited until they lost interest in the Navy that had no interest in them. No win for anyone. My S-i-L never filled that DEI quota. That's probably why he only got 5 NAM/NCM's instead of 6.
Same kind of thing with the FAA's air traffic controller mess. FAA flushed the controller training pipeline of white males, many of military flying experience, and filled it instead with women and racial/ethnic minorities of no particular ability. As many of these naive and inexperienced trainees eventually washed out prior to becoming controllers, the pipeline was suddenly discovered to be devoid of the numbers of able trainees needed to staff ATC positions all around the country. We suffer from that lack today and will continue to do so until the training pipeline is finally re-established and filled with able candidates selected on merit rather than group identity.
For sure...and also, didn't have the "proper" genitalia.
Not USNA, but USAFA grad of 45+ years ago. Underlying assumption is that the academic / military training foundation of the institutions is sound, but the admissions process is broken / discriminatory. I'd posit that all three areas are broken, and have lost their way. Along with the overall sense of mission and purpose of DoD in general. A fish rots from the head (allegedly...eww). The "head" of DoD has been rotten (perhaps intentionally) for a couple of decades. The resultant culture from the turn of the century is our DoD is built to social engineer and enrich "stakeholders" (Senior DoD, Congress, and Military Industrial Complex (TM)), not defend the nation. I wish the best of luck to Pete Hegseth and other Trump appointees. The rot is deep and wide...