Read Admiral Daniel V. Gallery's account of the boarding and capture of the U505, it's a great swashbuckling sea story, told very colorfully and with great humor. The men who volunteered to board that sinking submarine, with the charges to scuttle her ticking, must have walked bow-legged. Perhaps a subject for another FBF!
Likewise, I saw U505 at the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago when I was young.
Many years later a friend from navy days was working there when they did the preservation and moved it to the indoor quarters it is in now.
While I understand for accessibility, even way back in the 60s you have to make some concessions, it is a shame to cut large holes in the side for passage.
Then Capt. Gallery when to his Old Salts with the idea of capturing a sub, and they thought he had lost his mind. So he then went to all the young eager kids, and they were all in!
Except the boarding officer was an old salt! LT David had retired in 1939, with 20 years of honorable enlisted service. He was recalled from the Retired Reserve shortly thereafter, and appointed a Warrant Machinist in May 1942, and commissioned in August of that year.
Didn't mean to imply that he didn't value the few Old Salts he had aboard the Guadalcanal. Those CVE's were at the end of the line when it came to getting priority for experienced talent as they got commissioned int he shadow of the Essex's.
If you can find a copy, pick up his book of reminisces and anecdotes, "Clear The Decks". Its a great read:
Gallery was always a mold breaker (why he nearly got canned during the Revolt of the Admirals), and innovator. He speaks of fostering the change to 24 hour chow times on the pre war carriers as an example. And when he took command of the Guadalcanal, he adopted the motto "Can Do" for the ship.
This from p. 58...
...If you tell a bunch of old timers, "we're going out next cruise and sink the Tirpitz," they are apt to look at you kind of funny and say, "The Old Man has finally blown his top and gone nuts."
A bunch of youngsters will say, "Okay, we're going out to sink the Tirpitz" and may go out and do it. That's the kind of a crew we had on the Guadalcanal."...
I’ve long been a student of U-505 - in recent years her war diaries (KTBs) have generously been translated and made available online: https://www.uboatarchive.net/KTB/KTBList.htm
Brave men who sailed on submarines, whoever's they were.
A good memoir from the German side is Iron Coffins by Herbert Werner. IIRC his first patrol was '42 or maybe early '43. That was just when it was turning on them. It is somewhat miraculous that he survived.
Fullbore. Grew up hearing Grandpa Scoobs’ sea stories of commanding several destroyers on Atlantic convoy duty - Operation Drumbeat was one of my favorite reads as a kid. In recent years I’ve burned a fair amount of PTO on weekday trips to NARA College Park to go through some of the 9,000+ ASW Incident Reports on file there - including PC-566’s official account. Also found a couple of Grandpa Scoobs’ encounters - turns out not every sonar contact was a sub!
As regards the Germans "not having the great fleet boats" the USN had in WW2: U-166 belonged to the large oceangoing Type IX class, not greatly different from American fleet submarines in terms of size, range and armament. The Germans built 196 Type IX boats, a number equal to the combined total of our Gato and Balao classes. And of course this entirely disregards the much larger numbers of Type VII and other U-boat classes produced during the war.
There’s been some good writing on the subject in recent years. The two volume “U-Boat War off the U.S. Coast, 1942-1945” by Paul Branch is an excellent and meticulously detailed account. It’s so good that I’m slightly miffed as I was contemplating writing a similar work;-)
"From one of my favorite books of all time, Gaylord Kelshall’s The U-Boat War in the Caribbean, the story is told in much greater detail." <---In the blue colored clickable link which takes you to: https://www.blogger.com/blog/posts/15825441 and then to: https://www.blogger.com/blog/post/edit/15825441/5444295737218201952 such serendipity. I think the link is in error, but it took me to when I visited a friend, General Septum, at his blog. Back in July 2011 I was HPF. Wow, did I say that? The internet is forever.
The year was about 1986. I was dressed to the 9’s including my hat on a Mississippi Steamboat. I knew nothing about the U-Boat action at the Delta.
The year was about 1974. I was dressed and a guest on a Seagoing vessel in Chandler’s Cove off Mississippi. No mention of U-Boats either. Skip forward to let’s say 2016, and I asked my USCG instructors… “Do the Russians sail submarines North in our Chesapeake Bay?” Fellow nodded, “Yes, they do!”
So now let’s return and take a good look today at Venezuela! Funny, I checked TASS. No mention of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela. My guess is that the Russian Federation is running a submarine in the Caribbean. Breath…
Question… what’s going to trigger the 10,000 American troops to land on Venezuelan shores?
Submarine talk …. I love submarines! I have much respect submariners. However, Trotter wasn’t faithful, fun but not faithful.
The Enlisted man I sailed with off the coast of Charleston S.C.at night, slept with sword in his bunk. If it wasn’t for the Blue and Gold Commanding Officers of Nuclear Submarines, I probably would not have been “Discovered”. They gave me my Naval Training. The Navy Nurse Corps challenged me… Captain Joe Pratt, USMC rescued me and “A Star Was Born”!
Designator 2905 ripped off and 1635 placed! That happened about 1984 in St. Louis, MO and from there I went further down the Mississippi to Cape Girardeau, MO.
CDR Salamander, you did begin tonight’s read talking about the mighty Mississippi, blown apart engine rooms and dissected submarines, yes? Sunday is going to be fun! Because you will have a great Radio show for us. Thank you in advance.
Oh, btw CDR, mission accomplished at AACC! Tyler and Theo downloaded 496 pages of Criminal Law and five (5) chapters of more Criminal Law into my “Canvass” e-Book! Ms C. printed my Criminal Las Syllabus and my classmates. Looks like Saturday, tomorrow, I’ll be taking the Deep Dive into my “Criminal Law” Course Work. It’s sad loosing submarines and the good men who sailed them. Nobody wins at War, this I know. Thank you for the good read. Good night! Nurse Jane
While second guessing history is usually a fool's errand, one can't help but wonder how the war would have gone if Germany had used the steel in Bismarck and Tirpitz to build submarines instead.
Eight years ago I was in Bremerhaven. There is a U-boat you can tour. I’m a bit over 5’10” and have a degree of claustrophobia, so of course I paid my money to walk thru the thing. WOW. I’ve never seen so many valves in my life. There was a huge triangular group of them called the Christmas Tree. It was color coded to help the operator. It controlled the up and down when submerged. Everything was hydraulic. And the bunks were made for relative midgets. Only hit my head 3 times and the last one had padding, so some of the crew must have been close to 5’8”. About in the middle of the ship my claustrophobia grabbed me slightly and I looked to the end and calmed down, so no problem. But if I was in one of those things for long it would be put me in a torpedo tube and launch me to the surface.
I remember the stories of family who lived on Sullivan's Island, SC outside Charleston during WWII about U Boat crew members coming ashore to go shopping for supplies. Pretty ballsy.
of the German U-Boats, but I also hear the sound of I” want to be Famous in Current Naval Decisions”!
And you shall be because I’m carrying the knowledge you shared with me!
I’m shouting your name and showing the “Likes” I receive from our Subgroup!
Thank you Josh!
It took John Grisham fifteen (15) minutes to quit his Law Practice and pursue the Film Rights to his many books!
CDR Salamander, you already live in Florida! Alleluia! Keep up your excellent Nautical Ship Building work!
USMC 250th Anniversary! Congratulations and Semper Fie! To me… two (2) tours 4the FSSG!
I’m still alive! and Singing! and yesterday Evening, at NEX Annapolis Commisary I sang Roger Whittaker’s “The Last Farewell” to my patient E., sitting in his work seat near the door. E. smiled at me as I was emulating Ann-Margret’s method of Serious Smiling in difficult times!
CDR Salamander, I said to E. “It’s okay!” He was crying remembering the “Good Times” he shared with his son, everlasting be his memory!
To my shipmates, it’s okay to recall the Hard Times and the Sad Times!
We must stand tall saluting our American Flag as we sail off to War!
and btw, in my opinion, we are at War with Venezuela!
So let’s gather in the Chart Room … what can we do to help SECWAR Hegseth?
With your permission CDR, very respectfully Nurse Jane
We had better subs. They had better torpedoes. German torpedoes had their problems, but they solved their problems early. We blamed the skippers and sailors. Eventually the problems were discovered in the field and partial fixes were made. 2 years later manufacturing and design problems were fixed. But not all, ask the Tang and others.
I was raised in Miami--we used to be bothred by lumps of oil washing ashore from WW II sinkings just off the coast.
Just as an aside: The text of much of the narration appears to be a translation?
Delicately phrased. It was kinda' surprising.
I also remember tar balls washing up at New Smyrna beach, and also when we were visiting Cape Cod one time.
OPC modified to carry 2 SH-60 ASW birds, a VDS, and some torpedo tubes would be useful next time subs are on the coast.
You can still see U-505, and even tour the inside of it, at Chicago’s Museum of Science and Industry.
Read Admiral Daniel V. Gallery's account of the boarding and capture of the U505, it's a great swashbuckling sea story, told very colorfully and with great humor. The men who volunteered to board that sinking submarine, with the charges to scuttle her ticking, must have walked bow-legged. Perhaps a subject for another FBF!
I remember touring the U505 as a kid and thinking you’d have to be crazy (or have been press-ganged) to sail in one of these things!
Likewise, I saw U505 at the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago when I was young.
Many years later a friend from navy days was working there when they did the preservation and moved it to the indoor quarters it is in now.
While I understand for accessibility, even way back in the 60s you have to make some concessions, it is a shame to cut large holes in the side for passage.
LT David described told Admiral Gallery that when he went down the hatch, he knew how Jonah felt.
Then Capt. Gallery when to his Old Salts with the idea of capturing a sub, and they thought he had lost his mind. So he then went to all the young eager kids, and they were all in!
I have every one of his books.
Except the boarding officer was an old salt! LT David had retired in 1939, with 20 years of honorable enlisted service. He was recalled from the Retired Reserve shortly thereafter, and appointed a Warrant Machinist in May 1942, and commissioned in August of that year.
True...
Didn't mean to imply that he didn't value the few Old Salts he had aboard the Guadalcanal. Those CVE's were at the end of the line when it came to getting priority for experienced talent as they got commissioned int he shadow of the Essex's.
If you can find a copy, pick up his book of reminisces and anecdotes, "Clear The Decks". Its a great read:
https://www.biblio.com/book/clear-decks-daniel-v-gallery/d/1702121671?srsltid=AfmBOoq-QcO6GxxC843ilw8CNUT4gLf1xYY7I8t624x595ZxEVkPv-8y
Gallery was always a mold breaker (why he nearly got canned during the Revolt of the Admirals), and innovator. He speaks of fostering the change to 24 hour chow times on the pre war carriers as an example. And when he took command of the Guadalcanal, he adopted the motto "Can Do" for the ship.
This from p. 58...
...If you tell a bunch of old timers, "we're going out next cruise and sink the Tirpitz," they are apt to look at you kind of funny and say, "The Old Man has finally blown his top and gone nuts."
A bunch of youngsters will say, "Okay, we're going out to sink the Tirpitz" and may go out and do it. That's the kind of a crew we had on the Guadalcanal."...
I’ve long been a student of U-505 - in recent years her war diaries (KTBs) have generously been translated and made available online: https://www.uboatarchive.net/KTB/KTBList.htm
Its interesting how they got the boat across Lakeshore Dr.
https://res.cloudinary.com/dlpitjizv/image/upload/f_auto,q_auto,c_limit,w_1440/v1758245281/msi/csm_U505_6_2_30_3ddd0c6378_71ce8ff8b2.jpg
After decades of sitting outside wasting away, she was then "submerged" under the parking lot on the east side of the building...
https://www.griffinmsi.org/exhibits/u-505-submarine/restoration-relocation
The exhibit is really great...
https://preview.redd.it/u-505-u-boat-at-the-griffin-museum-of-science-and-industry-v0-2a79dfzpxc9d1.jpg?width=1080&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=caec8b778c0b1ba3d4426adc05b9f8e0c02ee4bd
Brave men who sailed on submarines, whoever's they were.
A good memoir from the German side is Iron Coffins by Herbert Werner. IIRC his first patrol was '42 or maybe early '43. That was just when it was turning on them. It is somewhat miraculous that he survived.
Fullbore. Grew up hearing Grandpa Scoobs’ sea stories of commanding several destroyers on Atlantic convoy duty - Operation Drumbeat was one of my favorite reads as a kid. In recent years I’ve burned a fair amount of PTO on weekday trips to NARA College Park to go through some of the 9,000+ ASW Incident Reports on file there - including PC-566’s official account. Also found a couple of Grandpa Scoobs’ encounters - turns out not every sonar contact was a sub!
As regards the Germans "not having the great fleet boats" the USN had in WW2: U-166 belonged to the large oceangoing Type IX class, not greatly different from American fleet submarines in terms of size, range and armament. The Germans built 196 Type IX boats, a number equal to the combined total of our Gato and Balao classes. And of course this entirely disregards the much larger numbers of Type VII and other U-boat classes produced during the war.
There’s been some good writing on the subject in recent years. The two volume “U-Boat War off the U.S. Coast, 1942-1945” by Paul Branch is an excellent and meticulously detailed account. It’s so good that I’m slightly miffed as I was contemplating writing a similar work;-)
"From one of my favorite books of all time, Gaylord Kelshall’s The U-Boat War in the Caribbean, the story is told in much greater detail." <---In the blue colored clickable link which takes you to: https://www.blogger.com/blog/posts/15825441 and then to: https://www.blogger.com/blog/post/edit/15825441/5444295737218201952 such serendipity. I think the link is in error, but it took me to when I visited a friend, General Septum, at his blog. Back in July 2011 I was HPF. Wow, did I say that? The internet is forever.
Good Evening CDR Salamander!
The year was about 1986. I was dressed to the 9’s including my hat on a Mississippi Steamboat. I knew nothing about the U-Boat action at the Delta.
The year was about 1974. I was dressed and a guest on a Seagoing vessel in Chandler’s Cove off Mississippi. No mention of U-Boats either. Skip forward to let’s say 2016, and I asked my USCG instructors… “Do the Russians sail submarines North in our Chesapeake Bay?” Fellow nodded, “Yes, they do!”
So now let’s return and take a good look today at Venezuela! Funny, I checked TASS. No mention of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela. My guess is that the Russian Federation is running a submarine in the Caribbean. Breath…
Question… what’s going to trigger the 10,000 American troops to land on Venezuelan shores?
Submarine talk …. I love submarines! I have much respect submariners. However, Trotter wasn’t faithful, fun but not faithful.
The Enlisted man I sailed with off the coast of Charleston S.C.at night, slept with sword in his bunk. If it wasn’t for the Blue and Gold Commanding Officers of Nuclear Submarines, I probably would not have been “Discovered”. They gave me my Naval Training. The Navy Nurse Corps challenged me… Captain Joe Pratt, USMC rescued me and “A Star Was Born”!
Designator 2905 ripped off and 1635 placed! That happened about 1984 in St. Louis, MO and from there I went further down the Mississippi to Cape Girardeau, MO.
CDR Salamander, you did begin tonight’s read talking about the mighty Mississippi, blown apart engine rooms and dissected submarines, yes? Sunday is going to be fun! Because you will have a great Radio show for us. Thank you in advance.
Oh, btw CDR, mission accomplished at AACC! Tyler and Theo downloaded 496 pages of Criminal Law and five (5) chapters of more Criminal Law into my “Canvass” e-Book! Ms C. printed my Criminal Las Syllabus and my classmates. Looks like Saturday, tomorrow, I’ll be taking the Deep Dive into my “Criminal Law” Course Work. It’s sad loosing submarines and the good men who sailed them. Nobody wins at War, this I know. Thank you for the good read. Good night! Nurse Jane
While second guessing history is usually a fool's errand, one can't help but wonder how the war would have gone if Germany had used the steel in Bismarck and Tirpitz to build submarines instead.
Eight years ago I was in Bremerhaven. There is a U-boat you can tour. I’m a bit over 5’10” and have a degree of claustrophobia, so of course I paid my money to walk thru the thing. WOW. I’ve never seen so many valves in my life. There was a huge triangular group of them called the Christmas Tree. It was color coded to help the operator. It controlled the up and down when submerged. Everything was hydraulic. And the bunks were made for relative midgets. Only hit my head 3 times and the last one had padding, so some of the crew must have been close to 5’8”. About in the middle of the ship my claustrophobia grabbed me slightly and I looked to the end and calmed down, so no problem. But if I was in one of those things for long it would be put me in a torpedo tube and launch me to the surface.
Oh, definitely worth the price of admission.
Lots of silt pouring out of the Mississippi.
Shipping losses in the Caribbean and Gulf...
Note the cluster sunk off the mouth of the Mississippi.
https://i0.wp.com/canadacaribbeaninstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/Shipping_Losses_Caribbean_Theatre.jpg?resize=1024%2C778&ssl=1
https://canadacaribbeaninstitute.org/2024/06/06/the-battle-of-the-caribbean/
I remember the stories of family who lived on Sullivan's Island, SC outside Charleston during WWII about U Boat crew members coming ashore to go shopping for supplies. Pretty ballsy.
CDR Salamander… I hear the “Audacity”
of the German U-Boats, but I also hear the sound of I” want to be Famous in Current Naval Decisions”!
And you shall be because I’m carrying the knowledge you shared with me!
I’m shouting your name and showing the “Likes” I receive from our Subgroup!
Thank you Josh!
It took John Grisham fifteen (15) minutes to quit his Law Practice and pursue the Film Rights to his many books!
CDR Salamander, you already live in Florida! Alleluia! Keep up your excellent Nautical Ship Building work!
USMC 250th Anniversary! Congratulations and Semper Fie! To me… two (2) tours 4the FSSG!
I’m still alive! and Singing! and yesterday Evening, at NEX Annapolis Commisary I sang Roger Whittaker’s “The Last Farewell” to my patient E., sitting in his work seat near the door. E. smiled at me as I was emulating Ann-Margret’s method of Serious Smiling in difficult times!
CDR Salamander, I said to E. “It’s okay!” He was crying remembering the “Good Times” he shared with his son, everlasting be his memory!
To my shipmates, it’s okay to recall the Hard Times and the Sad Times!
We must stand tall saluting our American Flag as we sail off to War!
and btw, in my opinion, we are at War with Venezuela!
So let’s gather in the Chart Room … what can we do to help SECWAR Hegseth?
With your permission CDR, very respectfully Nurse Jane
We had better subs. They had better torpedoes. German torpedoes had their problems, but they solved their problems early. We blamed the skippers and sailors. Eventually the problems were discovered in the field and partial fixes were made. 2 years later manufacturing and design problems were fixed. But not all, ask the Tang and others.
I had a large family presence on subs in WWII.
Drachnifel has dropped a couple vids on just this topic in he last couple weeks.
This one on German torpedo fuses...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ei70qsCWAnw
And this one on the "way not to do it" US torpedo development...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czsE6cu7Dak
Yeah, I know. Some in my family lived it.