While following a series of posts on X by Dr. Phil Weir about the last couple of decades’ struggle in the Royal Navy’s frigate programs, I remembered a 2011 post of mine about the 2011 foolishness in Libya that, in a way, read like an OG FbF ... and figured, let's bring the story of HMS Liverpool (D92), a little more than a year before her decommissioning to the Front Porch so we can see the proper use of a main gun for all the new readers.
Often here we have comments about how, "nAvAl GunZ uR oBSolEt3" ... well, of course they are not — as the recent events in the Red Sea against attack drones proved.
Commander Colin Williams said: ‘It was a good old fashioned ding-dong. The enemy fire was coming in pretty close. It was fairly close-range stuff but we’ve trained for this and we were ready to win the fight.
Repeat after me: "There is no more important weapon on a warship than its main gun battery."
Translate that into Latin and we'll put it in to Autotune for 'ya and make it a Gregorian Chant. Heck, we'll put it on t-shirts and sell them.
The Portsmouth-based destroyer was just six miles off the coast of Gaddafi-held territory when she came under a barrage of rockets and heavy calibre machine gunfire yesterday.
But the Libyan forces were no match for her 4.5in gun, which silenced the attack within half an hour with no casualties or damage to the ship. ... Cdr Williams said: ‘We had a couple of contacts moving down the coast. The other two ships went in to investigate and we sent up our helicopter in support.
‘Then they started getting fired on by the vessels and from the shore and it all got a bit hairy from there.’
As her helicopter dodged gunfire, Liverpool fired an opening salvo and manoeuvred into position to take on the shore battalion.
The captain said: ‘It took us about 20 or 30 minutes to bring it to an end. ... He revealed he was actually asleep when the attack began at 2am yesterday.
He said: ‘I was woken as we prepared and it was very humbling to see my ship’s company working so calmly and quietly.
Exactly.
Though the shore-duty theorists with their transformationalist fetish continue to ignore facts that interfere with their religion - history & reality - their worst enemy - continue to tell us what you need to get right in your warships.
This time it is Libya - and again - it is the Royal Navy (what is left of her) that tells us what we need to know.
Other things to go with our chant: 1. As Seaman Murphy gundecks PMS and his brother at the factory has quality control issues - it is best à la SPRUANCE & TICO to have two main batteries. 2. Larger isn't better, it is essential. Beancounters, men insecure with their manhood, and the non-battleminded like small caliber weapons. Those who need to kill or be killed know that if a 3" will do - a 5" is needed. If a 5" will fit, an 8" should be there instead. If you think I am nuts, just ask a Marine. If you think he is nuts - tell him to his face, please.
You will close the shore - you will be shot at - you will need to shoot back. Make sure those who have a comfortable commute and a comfortable home build you the ships you need - not the ones they think are neat.
57mm is worse than it looks. ROF and tech look fantastic, but once the racks on each side of gun are empty, to reload them, the gun goes into the vertical position. If it’s time to shoot, having the gun leave battery for low ammo makes it far less useful.
I’ll be honest, I prefer 5” over 8” for two very good reasons: First, 5” rounds are small enough we can praise the Lord and pass the ammunition all day long. At 70 pounds, it’s possible to get less fit sailors (we all know of them) to manhandle, while 250 pound HE rounds and 300 pound AP rounds just doesn’t work when going through watertight doors, or up scuttles. Second, it’s an inherently DP capable design. And right now, we’re seeing that AA artillery is a very useful asset when the enemy has lots of low and slow attritionable air assets.
I cannot imagine what the Hezbollah fighters thought when the USS New Jersey opened fired with their 16” main battery in 1983.
Yes, surface gunfire is important!
Here’s my 2¢ about modern guns.
57mm is worse than it looks. ROF and tech look fantastic, but once the racks on each side of gun are empty, to reload them, the gun goes into the vertical position. If it’s time to shoot, having the gun leave battery for low ammo makes it far less useful.
I’ll be honest, I prefer 5” over 8” for two very good reasons: First, 5” rounds are small enough we can praise the Lord and pass the ammunition all day long. At 70 pounds, it’s possible to get less fit sailors (we all know of them) to manhandle, while 250 pound HE rounds and 300 pound AP rounds just doesn’t work when going through watertight doors, or up scuttles. Second, it’s an inherently DP capable design. And right now, we’re seeing that AA artillery is a very useful asset when the enemy has lots of low and slow attritionable air assets.