Being a 0311 while on active duty in the 80's, I never was interested nor appreciated the history of the USMC during Vietnam.
Growing older I have immersed myself in discovering the Corps legacy in that conflict. I recently read "Matterhorn" by Karl Melantes. Now I'm haunted and humbled everyday by the sacrifice of these men.
Read Matterhorn in two days. Couldn’t put the book down. Opening took me back to Ranger School returning to a patrol base exhausted & famished after back-to-back 20 hour days in the mountains of N Georgia and swamps of Florida. Surviving on one MRE a day and intestinal fortitude. Later experiencing the “fog of war”, the “SUCK”, SNAFU & REMF politics of multiple deployments to Iraq & Afg after 9/11. Marlantes wrote not only a Vietnam War classic but a tome for all wars that will resonate with any veteran who actually served in one…
I was gonna recommend Matterhorn, glad there are others here who beat me to it. Marlantes also wrote "What it is like to go to War" and that is a must-read for anyone in the profession of arms.
One current Vietnamese Woman (my patient) did not following my Nursing Orders!
I dropped her and severed all ties with that particular Maryland Vietnamese family!
Why? The almighty American Opportunity!
My patient took the air plane despite very damaged back; hooked up with a Vietnamese Truck Driver and traveled back across America, stopping to scout out “Business Opportunities”!
Once I understood that; I was done with that entire Vietnamese Family.
History… at Westfield Annapolis Mall… in an Asian Spa…
In 2014, I was “ hoodwinked” by a very wealthy Australian … Vietnamese Business Woman.
Yes, she survived the Bombings in Vietnam … thanks to her family!
The State Department does not make a Gender Mistake on a U.S. Passport!
A woman = F …
If M is put onto that very first passport from Vietnam to USA… it’s a little “Glitch”.
… I didn’t realize that in 2020-2021!
I came to realize this in about 2023-2024!
I’m a slow learner! I’m a Registered Nurse, so I want to believe what I see… sometimes people deceive other people. It’s human nature.
Starting about 2982, I followed very closely through studying…
The Vietcong and the South Vietnamese Army and… the United States Veterans …
I wanted to understand and take excellent care of my Vietnam Era Veterans!
In about 2021, FRS, a killer in ‘Nam, by his own tales, hit me, open palm, over my heart! Yes, I suffered Cardiac arrhythmias documented then by VAMC Washington D.C.
In 2025, August 27 a Wednesday, same FRS rode his Lawnmower near my East Berm, stealing my property! Google Nest Camera shows him there!
Patience is a virtue; never give up!
To remain calm seventy - seven (77) days under intense fire is inspiring!
Some men and women can do this!
Everlasting be this Marine’s memory!
We Naval Officers teach the Heroism demonstrated … to inspire ourselves, yes!
To inspire … to keep on going, giving praise…to others!
Yesterday, Todd at the Annapolis APPLE Store praised my work beneath the Apple Vision Pro, total time inside that Apple Store, about (6) hours!
Every Naval Officers knows how to maintain what it takes to accomplish the “Mission “.
I love reading stories about our “Heroes”! Thank you!
However, please do not think for a New York “Second” that Vietnam “Survivors” have our backs!
I remember meeting Chesty's wife at a nearby duty station and also served under Col. Dabney's brother-in-law a hero at Hue who later commanded the 27th Marines. This family and many of their generation described paid their dues. Will never forget the derision and contempt felt in California as a junior enlisted during these times. Thanks Cdr for this wonderful article and all you do to inspire and teach, sir. SF!
I would note, the previous Sec Army (Wormuth) was determined to reduce the recruitment of multi-generational military enlistees in favor of under-represented minority groups. The Army failed to meet targets, Needless to say, she had no connection to the Army before or after her tour
"Statements attributed to Army Secretary Wormuth indicate that she is aware of the over-representation of multi-generational military families in recruitment and believes the Army needs to expand its reach. However, there is no evidence to support the claim that she has sought to reduce the recruitment of multi-generational enlistees in favor of under-represented minority groups. Her public statements emphasize expanding the recruitment pool overall, not limiting specific groups."
Not suggesting she is a hero, but as multi-generational Navy I prefer data to indulgence.
Eric Hammel wrote a book called Siege in the Clouds, an oral history of the 881 fights. Worth a read.
I did 2 years in Vietnam with JTF Full Accounting/JPAC. I walked the 881's one day, Hammel's book in hand. The hard drive with the photos got detroyed and I grieve that. They would be additive.
Fullbore to you as well - I’ve done some freelance work with DPAA. Just got word of my second confirmed identification - turns out I used to fly with one of his descendants!
Those of us that entered the Corps and served right after the end of the Vietnam conflict were lucky, lucky beyond imagination, at OCS they were relentless, even more so at TBS and IOC. They had been at war and man could they fight. Their recall of the Battle of Hue’ and Khe Sanh were especially vivid but just the attention to detail when issuing a patrol order was extraordinary. We are slowly losing them, but when we run into each other in a store, their veteran caps adorned with the various Vietnam era regalia, “hey Marine where were you..??” The answers always leading to more awe, and they only asked to come home to a country that had forgotten or wished to ignore and forget. Well this old 03020 will never forget, and we now need to turn our attention to our GWOT and Gulf War vets. They need to be remembered and assisted if it looks like they need it. This all said, the book of record for our day was James Webb’s “Fields of Fire.” You would see tattered copies everywhere back in the day. Time has flown by, but the images will not fade of them giving full measure even when their own country was busy disowning them. Semper Fi to every one here who heard their country calling and answered the call. We few, we happy few…
I am of that era, though never went in-country. My Senior Drill Instructor was a three-tour grunt who grieved when we were issued M16A1's instead of M14's (one week too late!). One of my other DI's had been at Khe Sanh "There's only three essentials, hogs; ammo, water and sh*tpaper. Anything else is gravy"
The books I remember are Robert Roth's "Sand in the Wind" and Hugget's - which title is escaping me at the moment. "Body Count"?
I returned home from Parris Island a few days before Christmas. Walking through the terminal in my greens, I was shunned by everyone except the cops. I didn't even exist for anyone else. Better than the guys in-country got on return, though. It wasn't until later that I got called a "Baby Killer!" while in blues on a college campus.
I had a happenstance meeting with three USMC Officer Selection Officers, in bar in northern NY. My mind was already made up at age 17 to join the Marine Corps. the summer following at age 18 I walked into the OSO office in Boston, which was actually in Cambridge across the river. The journey started immediately. I took my oath of enlistment on my 19th birthday, and headed to the first increment of OCS at Camp Upshur, Quantico. We had the M-14! It was a great rifle and we fam fired it for about 3 days at the MTU ranges in Quantico. The follow increment we were issued that POS M16, and then of course carried it for the next several years. Luckily I missed the foul up over the .45, carried that the whole 4 years on active duty. Like you I was subject to the sullen looks and eyes averted of the general public when traveling in my greens. Was verbally attacked by some hippie nut bag at Logan Airport and more or less just came over to the notion that we are a very small tribe. so F the world. There was one great episode. My boss Colonel Joe Goodwin, right around New Year’s of 1980, decided that I was in need of a couple days of liberty. I was able to book flights to get to where my parents were enjoying a vacation in Florida. To get there you had to fly from Jacksonville NC to Atlanta. Hartsfield was a Hell of its own, and i had a couple of hours layover. So the bar called. There were two enlisted SEAL’s in whites and I was in my greens. small world so I said I would buy their beers. We had just about started on the first beer when an older man came over and told us his table was buying our beers. There were several WWII vets going somewhere, and they decided we should not have to pay for our drinks. It was a happy interlude in an otherwise contentious period to serve our nation. Don’t know about you, but I Generally do not like it when someone randomly figures out I am a veteran and thanks me for my service. The sincere people yes. The vast majority are just saying words to us. I would rather they just ignore us as they have always done. Leave it to we few. It’s a small club, and we are in it. You can’t buy your way in. Thanks for being a part of the Corps, and doing your part. It’s not said enough the right way, but indeed thank you for serving our nation in the finest fighting force the world has ever known. Semper FI!
Vietnam vets were openly badmouthed and physically attacked, to the point where one of my fellow Midshipmen was attacked by two “peace lovers” on campus as he was using a cane to compensate for a sports injury. Today’s vets face a more insidious form of attack, by those who want to deny a person their Second Amendment rights if they have ever sought help for PTSD. That is today’s civil rights fight.
I was once walking the hallowed grounds of Havard Yard in my spiffy Summer Whites when a chonky student threw a “baby killers!” our way - I wasn’t sure whether to be shocked or amused! For my father’s generation the public distain was far different…
Summer of 2001 - pre-9/11! I’ve travelled near and far in many different environments wearing the uniform of our nation - that was the one and only time I ever caught flak for it ;-)
You might have been experiencing the echos of 1969 - the same people (now with grey hair) or their children, or spiritual children. In the early 80’s, the Navy sent me to MIT; I changed buses at Harvard Square, which was always a view into a totally different society. 😁
We laughed it off and chalked up to residual Ivy League entitlement - the locals in Southie were far more hospitable and willing to support our underage drinking habits!
I never had a problem, or met anyone who had a problem of that sort. On the other hand, I did have a conversation with two gentlemen who claimed to work for the House Unamerican Activities Commission who said they would investigate me for my negative comments on our effort in RVN. So, I may have my own file somewhere in some dusty archive somewhere.
I was also a guest at a cocktail party in DC in early '69, where I wore my Class A greens since I had no appropriate civvies. I was thoroughly ignored, which suited me fine since I was there for the free food and booze, not to schmooze. The only person who spoke to me was the late Congressman Dan Flood (D., PA). Nice guy, with an impressive moustache.
Speaking of hippies, I once witnessed, at Jacksonville(Fla) International Airport, a well-coifed lady in a fur coat berating a long-haired hippy-looking individual. Then, to my surprise, a brand new looking butterbar (probably an Ensign, it being at JAX) intervened and strongly defended the hippy's right to hippiness and the inappropriateness of the lady's invective. It still amuses me.
Fullbore. Papa Scoobs was going through jet transition training in Kingsville during Tet ‘68 - the nightly news regularly led with an update on the siege at Khe Sanh. One evening included dramatic footage of a Marine A-4 Skyhawk that got hit while performing CAS outside the perimeter - the pilot punched out and landed in no-man’s land and their was a race between the Marines and NVA to get to him first - the Marines won. The footage concluded with scenes of the very relieved pilot being welcomed back into the base and Papa Scoobs recognized him - it was his NAVCAD roommate from a decade prior!
I was home on leave during Tet, on my way to RVN, reading and watching stories about the festivities I was soon to take part in. Not the most reassuring introduction, as I am sure Papa Scoobs would agree.
Colonel Dabney was also a prior enlisted Marine and married to the older daughter of Chesty Puller.
Would've been something to see that meeting of men...
Imagine asking Chesty to marry his daughter.
and doing it as a USMC 2LT
Gives additional meaning to "The few, the proud!"
well...he was a Mustang 2nd Lt; I think that woulda made a difference to Chesty
who made it to E5 in 3 years
Thank you CDR Salamander for recognizing VN vets! Far too many vets have had such terrible experiences since returning from “Nam.
Was just told my county (Moore) here in NC is organizing a “welcome home event” for Vietnam vets. It’s been 50 years, but better late than ever!
headed to 60 years for most
Just wait until an active duty or guardsman shoots an unarmed civilian a la Kent State. There’ll be plenty of traction.
Thank you. Great story. You are right that we know much too little about the heroism of our warriors during that war.
A fitting tribute to a Real Man.
Being a 0311 while on active duty in the 80's, I never was interested nor appreciated the history of the USMC during Vietnam.
Growing older I have immersed myself in discovering the Corps legacy in that conflict. I recently read "Matterhorn" by Karl Melantes. Now I'm haunted and humbled everyday by the sacrifice of these men.
Read Matterhorn in two days. Couldn’t put the book down. Opening took me back to Ranger School returning to a patrol base exhausted & famished after back-to-back 20 hour days in the mountains of N Georgia and swamps of Florida. Surviving on one MRE a day and intestinal fortitude. Later experiencing the “fog of war”, the “SUCK”, SNAFU & REMF politics of multiple deployments to Iraq & Afg after 9/11. Marlantes wrote not only a Vietnam War classic but a tome for all wars that will resonate with any veteran who actually served in one…
Matterhorn should be required reading for all grunts.
I finished Tattoo Zoo by Paul Avallone last year and IMHO it's just as good.
REMFs are the scourge of all branches. And, we'll never be rid of them until p/o qualifications for the position include a year in the trenches.
I was gonna recommend Matterhorn, glad there are others here who beat me to it. Marlantes also wrote "What it is like to go to War" and that is a must-read for anyone in the profession of arms.
CDR Salamander,
One current Vietnamese Woman (my patient) did not following my Nursing Orders!
I dropped her and severed all ties with that particular Maryland Vietnamese family!
Why? The almighty American Opportunity!
My patient took the air plane despite very damaged back; hooked up with a Vietnamese Truck Driver and traveled back across America, stopping to scout out “Business Opportunities”!
Once I understood that; I was done with that entire Vietnamese Family.
History… at Westfield Annapolis Mall… in an Asian Spa…
In 2014, I was “ hoodwinked” by a very wealthy Australian … Vietnamese Business Woman.
Yes, she survived the Bombings in Vietnam … thanks to her family!
The State Department does not make a Gender Mistake on a U.S. Passport!
A woman = F …
If M is put onto that very first passport from Vietnam to USA… it’s a little “Glitch”.
… I didn’t realize that in 2020-2021!
I came to realize this in about 2023-2024!
I’m a slow learner! I’m a Registered Nurse, so I want to believe what I see… sometimes people deceive other people. It’s human nature.
Starting about 2982, I followed very closely through studying…
The Vietcong and the South Vietnamese Army and… the United States Veterans …
I wanted to understand and take excellent care of my Vietnam Era Veterans!
In about 2021, FRS, a killer in ‘Nam, by his own tales, hit me, open palm, over my heart! Yes, I suffered Cardiac arrhythmias documented then by VAMC Washington D.C.
In 2025, August 27 a Wednesday, same FRS rode his Lawnmower near my East Berm, stealing my property! Google Nest Camera shows him there!
Patience is a virtue; never give up!
To remain calm seventy - seven (77) days under intense fire is inspiring!
Some men and women can do this!
Everlasting be this Marine’s memory!
We Naval Officers teach the Heroism demonstrated … to inspire ourselves, yes!
To inspire … to keep on going, giving praise…to others!
Yesterday, Todd at the Annapolis APPLE Store praised my work beneath the Apple Vision Pro, total time inside that Apple Store, about (6) hours!
Every Naval Officers knows how to maintain what it takes to accomplish the “Mission “.
I love reading stories about our “Heroes”! Thank you!
However, please do not think for a New York “Second” that Vietnam “Survivors” have our backs!
They do not! Their families come first.
Respectfully shared! Nurse Jane
Makes you wonder how many were there at start and still unscathed at the end. Leadership matters.
I remember meeting Chesty's wife at a nearby duty station and also served under Col. Dabney's brother-in-law a hero at Hue who later commanded the 27th Marines. This family and many of their generation described paid their dues. Will never forget the derision and contempt felt in California as a junior enlisted during these times. Thanks Cdr for this wonderful article and all you do to inspire and teach, sir. SF!
Semper Fidelis
I thank God everyday that there is a Warrior Class in this country which steps up when called to do their duty, whether in war time or peace.
Thanks,
Dave Peterson
I would note, the previous Sec Army (Wormuth) was determined to reduce the recruitment of multi-generational military enlistees in favor of under-represented minority groups. The Army failed to meet targets, Needless to say, she had no connection to the Army before or after her tour
"Statements attributed to Army Secretary Wormuth indicate that she is aware of the over-representation of multi-generational military families in recruitment and believes the Army needs to expand its reach. However, there is no evidence to support the claim that she has sought to reduce the recruitment of multi-generational enlistees in favor of under-represented minority groups. Her public statements emphasize expanding the recruitment pool overall, not limiting specific groups."
Not suggesting she is a hero, but as multi-generational Navy I prefer data to indulgence.
In a resource constrained world, if you shift priorities and resources, you expect to get less results from the area you shifted money out of.
She shifted the resources and got fewer recruits both from traditional groups and overall.
Marketing 101: See Bud Light, See Cracker Barrel.
It's much cheaper to keep a customer group than gain a new one.
She gambled and failed
I will have to defer to you on this since I don't have any data on recruitment marketing expenditures versus enlistment outcomes.
Eric Hammel wrote a book called Siege in the Clouds, an oral history of the 881 fights. Worth a read.
I did 2 years in Vietnam with JTF Full Accounting/JPAC. I walked the 881's one day, Hammel's book in hand. The hard drive with the photos got detroyed and I grieve that. They would be additive.
Fullbore to you as well - I’ve done some freelance work with DPAA. Just got word of my second confirmed identification - turns out I used to fly with one of his descendants!
Those of us that entered the Corps and served right after the end of the Vietnam conflict were lucky, lucky beyond imagination, at OCS they were relentless, even more so at TBS and IOC. They had been at war and man could they fight. Their recall of the Battle of Hue’ and Khe Sanh were especially vivid but just the attention to detail when issuing a patrol order was extraordinary. We are slowly losing them, but when we run into each other in a store, their veteran caps adorned with the various Vietnam era regalia, “hey Marine where were you..??” The answers always leading to more awe, and they only asked to come home to a country that had forgotten or wished to ignore and forget. Well this old 03020 will never forget, and we now need to turn our attention to our GWOT and Gulf War vets. They need to be remembered and assisted if it looks like they need it. This all said, the book of record for our day was James Webb’s “Fields of Fire.” You would see tattered copies everywhere back in the day. Time has flown by, but the images will not fade of them giving full measure even when their own country was busy disowning them. Semper Fi to every one here who heard their country calling and answered the call. We few, we happy few…
I am of that era, though never went in-country. My Senior Drill Instructor was a three-tour grunt who grieved when we were issued M16A1's instead of M14's (one week too late!). One of my other DI's had been at Khe Sanh "There's only three essentials, hogs; ammo, water and sh*tpaper. Anything else is gravy"
The books I remember are Robert Roth's "Sand in the Wind" and Hugget's - which title is escaping me at the moment. "Body Count"?
I returned home from Parris Island a few days before Christmas. Walking through the terminal in my greens, I was shunned by everyone except the cops. I didn't even exist for anyone else. Better than the guys in-country got on return, though. It wasn't until later that I got called a "Baby Killer!" while in blues on a college campus.
I had a happenstance meeting with three USMC Officer Selection Officers, in bar in northern NY. My mind was already made up at age 17 to join the Marine Corps. the summer following at age 18 I walked into the OSO office in Boston, which was actually in Cambridge across the river. The journey started immediately. I took my oath of enlistment on my 19th birthday, and headed to the first increment of OCS at Camp Upshur, Quantico. We had the M-14! It was a great rifle and we fam fired it for about 3 days at the MTU ranges in Quantico. The follow increment we were issued that POS M16, and then of course carried it for the next several years. Luckily I missed the foul up over the .45, carried that the whole 4 years on active duty. Like you I was subject to the sullen looks and eyes averted of the general public when traveling in my greens. Was verbally attacked by some hippie nut bag at Logan Airport and more or less just came over to the notion that we are a very small tribe. so F the world. There was one great episode. My boss Colonel Joe Goodwin, right around New Year’s of 1980, decided that I was in need of a couple days of liberty. I was able to book flights to get to where my parents were enjoying a vacation in Florida. To get there you had to fly from Jacksonville NC to Atlanta. Hartsfield was a Hell of its own, and i had a couple of hours layover. So the bar called. There were two enlisted SEAL’s in whites and I was in my greens. small world so I said I would buy their beers. We had just about started on the first beer when an older man came over and told us his table was buying our beers. There were several WWII vets going somewhere, and they decided we should not have to pay for our drinks. It was a happy interlude in an otherwise contentious period to serve our nation. Don’t know about you, but I Generally do not like it when someone randomly figures out I am a veteran and thanks me for my service. The sincere people yes. The vast majority are just saying words to us. I would rather they just ignore us as they have always done. Leave it to we few. It’s a small club, and we are in it. You can’t buy your way in. Thanks for being a part of the Corps, and doing your part. It’s not said enough the right way, but indeed thank you for serving our nation in the finest fighting force the world has ever known. Semper FI!
Vietnam vets were openly badmouthed and physically attacked, to the point where one of my fellow Midshipmen was attacked by two “peace lovers” on campus as he was using a cane to compensate for a sports injury. Today’s vets face a more insidious form of attack, by those who want to deny a person their Second Amendment rights if they have ever sought help for PTSD. That is today’s civil rights fight.
I was once walking the hallowed grounds of Havard Yard in my spiffy Summer Whites when a chonky student threw a “baby killers!” our way - I wasn’t sure whether to be shocked or amused! For my father’s generation the public distain was far different…
My event was 1969. Yours?
Summer of 2001 - pre-9/11! I’ve travelled near and far in many different environments wearing the uniform of our nation - that was the one and only time I ever caught flak for it ;-)
You might have been experiencing the echos of 1969 - the same people (now with grey hair) or their children, or spiritual children. In the early 80’s, the Navy sent me to MIT; I changed buses at Harvard Square, which was always a view into a totally different society. 😁
We laughed it off and chalked up to residual Ivy League entitlement - the locals in Southie were far more hospitable and willing to support our underage drinking habits!
I never had a problem, or met anyone who had a problem of that sort. On the other hand, I did have a conversation with two gentlemen who claimed to work for the House Unamerican Activities Commission who said they would investigate me for my negative comments on our effort in RVN. So, I may have my own file somewhere in some dusty archive somewhere.
I was also a guest at a cocktail party in DC in early '69, where I wore my Class A greens since I had no appropriate civvies. I was thoroughly ignored, which suited me fine since I was there for the free food and booze, not to schmooze. The only person who spoke to me was the late Congressman Dan Flood (D., PA). Nice guy, with an impressive moustache.
Speaking of hippies, I once witnessed, at Jacksonville(Fla) International Airport, a well-coifed lady in a fur coat berating a long-haired hippy-looking individual. Then, to my surprise, a brand new looking butterbar (probably an Ensign, it being at JAX) intervened and strongly defended the hippy's right to hippiness and the inappropriateness of the lady's invective. It still amuses me.
Was Col Dabney a descendant of Genl RL Dabney, CSA and theologian of Princeton?
Fullbore. Papa Scoobs was going through jet transition training in Kingsville during Tet ‘68 - the nightly news regularly led with an update on the siege at Khe Sanh. One evening included dramatic footage of a Marine A-4 Skyhawk that got hit while performing CAS outside the perimeter - the pilot punched out and landed in no-man’s land and their was a race between the Marines and NVA to get to him first - the Marines won. The footage concluded with scenes of the very relieved pilot being welcomed back into the base and Papa Scoobs recognized him - it was his NAVCAD roommate from a decade prior!
I was home on leave during Tet, on my way to RVN, reading and watching stories about the festivities I was soon to take part in. Not the most reassuring introduction, as I am sure Papa Scoobs would agree.