CDR Sal, love the "days of fighting steel" episodes of FBF. Pray that if called upon, current USN forces will perform to this standard. IIRC, the French forces were not totally committed to the course their command leadership chose. Yet, it appears they were well trained and equipped, as they put up a good fight. Or at least, good enough to "capitulate with honor", which historically has not always been the case. Have to wonder what the losses of French fighting age males in WWI and II did to their national psyche and, well, gene pool.
One of the few times an American battlewagon used her main battery against another ship, even if moored. North Africa was a rather confused campaign, but was a stepping stone to victory.
The Vichy government in South of France was "independent" not occupied by German forces. The French in Morocco and Algeria were Vichy, run by Petan in Vichy and had obligation to resist the US/Brits. Germans would occupy Vichy!
Eisenhower had gone so far as infiltrate Mark Clark to get the Vichy on the sidelines, but that failed. A bit of intrigue ensued because the Vichy navy admiral in North Africa did not care for the Frenchman Eisenhower had foisted on him to run down French resistance.
The story is covered in Rick Atkinson's excellent trilogy about the US Army in WW II ETO. An Army at Dawn.
Hmmm imagine fighting admirals on the bridge of a fighting US Navy ship of war….hello 3-4 star Admirals, please read the FBF post today. You might learn something or maybe get your blue water spirit back…
One very serious and unintended consequence of Goldwater Nichols and the establishment of the joint command stew is that what should be time in the FMF for Marines or at sea for Sailors turns into a couple of years of milk and cookies hobnobbing with their brethren in DC or some other equally bad sewer of political intrigue and unwanted influence from every corner. You end up with Austin’s and Milley’s and McKenzie’s who are capable of screwing up a steel ball, or conducting a last gasp defeat in detail withdrawal from Afghanistan. It’s a system rife with possibilities to fail up as long as you willing to pucker your lips and blow.
While I haven't finished the full article, I would like to note that hen Massachusetts fired her first volley, she became the first battleship in the USN to fire a main battery. Also, Massachusetts had the honor to fire the last 16" shells against the Japanese home islands.
I’ve had the pleasure of crawling through big “Mammie” on several occasions - despite my brown shoe background I love the compact look of the South Dakota class BBs.
"While the two most aggressive U-boat skippers involved in Casablanca attacks paid with the loss of their vessels, they extracted more than they gave up. In today's terms, their risk/reward ratio was good. The overall message for submarine warfare is that the sub was not defeated in World War II, it was out produced. If a so-called conventional war occurred again, say one of the two regional conflicts we plan to be prepared for gets out of hand and involves submarines and mines, the advantage of those undersea weapons' systems would cause the US embarrassment again in the early going."
Oh, come now! The U.S. Navy's anti-submarine warfare and mine countermeasure capabilties and proficiency are beyond reproach. /sarc
Excellent article on a mostly forgotten action. The French were caught in a hard place, as their natural inclinations (hate Germans!) collided with geopolitics. Many fought for their honor or obedience to lawful orders (which overlapped). I can recall visiting Toulon a while back ,where in the Officer's Club there was a large painting of Jean Bart. Our entry into the bar was greeted by snarls from a few elderly ex-officers in the corner. We still got served, if unenthusiastically. Hard to blame them.
CDR Sal, love the "days of fighting steel" episodes of FBF. Pray that if called upon, current USN forces will perform to this standard. IIRC, the French forces were not totally committed to the course their command leadership chose. Yet, it appears they were well trained and equipped, as they put up a good fight. Or at least, good enough to "capitulate with honor", which historically has not always been the case. Have to wonder what the losses of French fighting age males in WWI and II did to their national psyche and, well, gene pool.
That is a very descriptive report. I will read it all. Thanks
Got the blood flowing.
"Leaving Massachusetts to count what shells remained in her magazines (60% depleted),"
I assume this was 60% of the HC shells, vice AP?
Don't you guys keep a shell log, in tanks, we kept a running log of the 4 or 5 shell types?
USNavy does keep ammo logs, by type by magazine and by caliber. Woe to the Gun Boss and gunner’s mates who mess up their log books!
One of the few times an American battlewagon used her main battery against another ship, even if moored. North Africa was a rather confused campaign, but was a stepping stone to victory.
People remember the French were our allies in WWII - except for that period that they weren't... gets overlooked a lot, I think. Great read...!!
Many still were not and worked actively with the Gestapo to turn in partisans and allied airmen.
The Vichy government in South of France was "independent" not occupied by German forces. The French in Morocco and Algeria were Vichy, run by Petan in Vichy and had obligation to resist the US/Brits. Germans would occupy Vichy!
Eisenhower had gone so far as infiltrate Mark Clark to get the Vichy on the sidelines, but that failed. A bit of intrigue ensued because the Vichy navy admiral in North Africa did not care for the Frenchman Eisenhower had foisted on him to run down French resistance.
The story is covered in Rick Atkinson's excellent trilogy about the US Army in WW II ETO. An Army at Dawn.
Great book! Atkinson's trilogy is an absolute base line.
Yes, all three! I had uncles who fought in all the campaigns covered in the books.
Hmmm imagine fighting admirals on the bridge of a fighting US Navy ship of war….hello 3-4 star Admirals, please read the FBF post today. You might learn something or maybe get your blue water spirit back…
If you ask me, the flag career paths don't have anywhere near the required time at sea.
Because its a "Naval Enterprise" not being much interested in being an actual "Navy"...
https://x.com/USNavy/status/1526261709362577410/photo/1
CAGs make Flag these days without a ship command, do they even have to qualify as OOD Underway?
One very serious and unintended consequence of Goldwater Nichols and the establishment of the joint command stew is that what should be time in the FMF for Marines or at sea for Sailors turns into a couple of years of milk and cookies hobnobbing with their brethren in DC or some other equally bad sewer of political intrigue and unwanted influence from every corner. You end up with Austin’s and Milley’s and McKenzie’s who are capable of screwing up a steel ball, or conducting a last gasp defeat in detail withdrawal from Afghanistan. It’s a system rife with possibilities to fail up as long as you willing to pucker your lips and blow.
Fbf never disappoints! Another great post. Will reread Morrison.
While I haven't finished the full article, I would like to note that hen Massachusetts fired her first volley, she became the first battleship in the USN to fire a main battery. Also, Massachusetts had the honor to fire the last 16" shells against the Japanese home islands.
Plus, during this engagement, she accomplished one the longest ranged hits by naval gunfire ever (long thought to be the longest ever)...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dfxxs7Armj8
I’ve had the pleasure of crawling through big “Mammie” on several occasions - despite my brown shoe background I love the compact look of the South Dakota class BBs.
"While the two most aggressive U-boat skippers involved in Casablanca attacks paid with the loss of their vessels, they extracted more than they gave up. In today's terms, their risk/reward ratio was good. The overall message for submarine warfare is that the sub was not defeated in World War II, it was out produced. If a so-called conventional war occurred again, say one of the two regional conflicts we plan to be prepared for gets out of hand and involves submarines and mines, the advantage of those undersea weapons' systems would cause the US embarrassment again in the early going."
Oh, come now! The U.S. Navy's anti-submarine warfare and mine countermeasure capabilties and proficiency are beyond reproach. /sarc
Excellent article on a mostly forgotten action. The French were caught in a hard place, as their natural inclinations (hate Germans!) collided with geopolitics. Many fought for their honor or obedience to lawful orders (which overlapped). I can recall visiting Toulon a while back ,where in the Officer's Club there was a large painting of Jean Bart. Our entry into the bar was greeted by snarls from a few elderly ex-officers in the corner. We still got served, if unenthusiastically. Hard to blame them.