Good Morning CDR Salamander, auspicious Wednesday. All eyes are focused on South Korea! I’m holding my breath. Will China’s President meet with our President? The security there must be tighter than a brand new thick rubber band. CDR thank you for posting photos of the auxiliary ships. “If ships could talk”, what would these two say? Their engines are so busy, their engineers so sweaty. The prudent person may choose to stay clear of the Engine Room spaces. What would the lovely swimming fish say about “Displaced Water?” I’d imagine the fish would be happy for the water’s movement. More food no doub! All God’s creatures are happy with our Logistical Ships at sea! Hurray for the hard working Koreans and our United States Navy!
Aye, Aye CDR Salamander, carrying out the Plan of the Day! Stay safe! Nurse Jane
CDR Sal, appreciate your continued focus on the critical support infrastructure and hulls of our naval forces. A warning: unless the Military Industrial Complex (MIC TM) major defense contractors (Looking at you NG) are involved and "getting their beak wet" as part of some convoluted "joint venture" arrangement, they will covertly fight this tooth and nail. Combined with their senior military and civilian DoW officials beholden to them and congressional allies, they will "maliciously comply" with the administration's directive if it doesn't enhance their personal bottom line. Kills me to have to say this, but the number of "public but anonymous" comments I'm reading defending "the way we've always done things" (some on this site!) and 48 years of experience in DoD(W) make this conclusion inescapable. Please keep fighting the good fight.
No doubt. But the real money in any ship building proposal win (at least it used to be) was (is) in the maintenance / follow on support. When we won the DD(X) Pascagoula was only going to build half the hulls. I was scandalized, was told to calm down, and shown where the "real" money in the deal was. Times change, may be totally different today. HII (they apparently bought Pascagoula back from NG or something...boy I'm out of date) knows the business and won't be surprised by anything, I'm sure.
Only patriotism can motivate such engineering / fabrication as you indicate. Profit motive cannot do it. Cf. Russia's Burevestnik and Poseidon technologies, not to mention Kinshal, Zircon and Sarmat.
Oh, there can be profit in a MIC, must be. But if that is the basic motivation for achieving national safety, then that objective is unobtainable; everything will be financialized, monetized, to include you and me.
Our nation's enemies aren't "over there." Our own appetites do us in. *That* problem we can fix.
“South Korea wants access to U.S. Nuclear Submarine Fuel”, Chanel 24 National News Desk; did you catch DJT’s response? We will see…
Please, CDR, why does South Korea want U.S. Nuclear Submarine fuel? What do you think?
Also, let’s talk more about diverting our Navy Shipbuilding efforts from inside our U.S. all 50 States by this “Amazon” deal to bring $500 Million to South Korea?
South Korea is not on American soil? Trade deals ???
On the other hand, recall I’m the Attorney “In Training Status”, our American News reported thousands of Amazon “Corporate” positions eliminated!
CDR, is our U.S. Navy interested in these Amazon “Corporate” employees perhaps to help in Logistical and Administrative Support for the Skilled Japanese and South Korean Union Employees “Boiler Makers”, “Welders” U.S. Navy would like having living here on our Ship Building sites, Philly, Texas, Georgia, California, Louisiana, Maine, Alaska, Hawaii, Rosevelt Roads, PR.
CDR, did I just throw a Mud Pack against the wall, watching “What will stick?” Very respectfully, LCDR Swann.
The US Navy won WWII in the Pacific because of their auxiliaries. The Navy used them to help build overnight advance bases as it moved across the Pacific. Look up "ice cream barge, Ulithi.
I have a list of ship at Seeadler Harbor pre Leyte invasion. Of the ~600 ships there (incl LST's) there are 125 ships whose designation starts with an "A". Your point is made
Small but important point, it is ‘His Majesty’s New Zealand Ship’ not ‘The His Majesty’s New Zealand Ship’. As you often say the way we talk about Naval Matters matters.
The only thing kings are good for is feeding La guillotine. Charles I, the former King of England, Scotland and Ireland, was publicly executed on January 30, 1649, outside the Banqueting House on Whitehall, London. That was a great moment in human history. It proved that "the divine right of Kings" was a crook of bullshit.
Yes, Cromwell was a greater tyrant than Charles, but, only because Ollie was focused and disciplined in his tyranny, and Charles was a Good-Time-Charlie. Cromwell was a conservative, evangelical Christian dictator, and a genocidal racist to boot.
But Charles needed to die. Government comes from the consent of the governed, not from the hand of God. The English people had duly elected representatives who passed proper laws. Charles broke those laws and in doing so committed treason. He was tried before a jury who found him guilty. The only way to end the scourge of an aristocracy is by execution.
It is unfortunate that every revolution seems to descend into a worse tyranny. Lenin, Robespierre, and Franco are brothers to Oliver Cromwell.
This is the point where our founding fathers did have wisdom. Good bless Geo. Washington. His revolution was not followed by a worse tyranny. Only George Washington had the balls to serve and give up the rod of power. He set an example for the world. He gave the world an example of successful self-government; a county where the people governed, free of kings and aristocrats.
Look, the catholic church tried and failed to run govements on religious grounds. If the true church failed, how do you expect a bunch of dirty heretics to manage? If we want a religious leader to run the government, we should call on the Pope, not some heathen protestant.
But seriously, nobody lusts more to spill blood than the "Christian Kings," we survived as a nation by keeping religion in the church and out of City Hall. Your boy Cromwell, is exactly the sort of asshole you get when you let religion into government. Him and Tomás de Torquemada are peas in a pod.
Good news indeed, in the vein of "professionals talk logistics"! Now get them to work on the floating dry docks and replenishment ships to reload missiles. Baby steps...baby steps.
I'd submit, not just expertise...industrial capacity. How long would it take us to build the hulls we need using domestic (defense industry and commercial) yards? My time in ship building was brief and long ago, so I'm asking if we could do it.
Pete: We aren't in the 1960s anymore. That's when my father would take me on his weekend shopping trips for hardware and lawn and garden supplies, and ridicule the poor quality of products made by "the Japs" (he was 15 years old when WWII ended and was a Korean War vet). In the 1970s, he complained about losing textile business to "the Japs." In the 1980s, my father owned his last Oldsmobiles. In the 1990s, my father started buying Toyotas.
Pete: The first Olds that I recall my father owning, in the early-mid 60s, was a light blue F-85 station wagon. I suppose the model name (and the tail fins) were inspired by the names of fighter jets. Later, a Vista Cruiser, with windows over the back seat, was my favorite ride. The way-back of another Olds stationing wagon, with vinyl, faux-wood side panels, came in handy on weekend nights during my senior year in high school. I also transported a goat in the way-back for my fraternity sink night during college (nothing unsavory happened, but the goat gave the pledges something to worry about).
Great news. It's about time we sought something better than the wasteful disappointments of our current examples of failure, always way over budget, short on quality and years behind schedule.
Interesting. As the plank owner CO of a new "Handy size" oiler in the 80's, we need to be sure that the design process is truly operationally based. My "Handy sized" oiler (AO-179) had to be jumboized so that she and her sisters were truly effective in one stop shop logistics. Don't let he Washington cheese parers design on the cheap---we will just need to spend more down the road.
I would add the Tide Class to the list of very good logistics ships that are serving today. The Tide Class is a class of four fast fleet tankers that entered service with the British Royal Fleet Auxiliary from 2017.
Maybe not so 'light' but could support a SAG or ARG/MAGTF/ESG. It goes fast enough, and has enough range. I am very impressed with the efficient and capable propulsion system.
Amen! NAVSEA has been more of a benefit to our advisaries and detractors than Navy! Pitiful.
💯
Take 20 of the NZ types to start?
Also polar rated. Wish we had better details on the Korean ships so we could compare and contrast their benefits.
And THAT would be a first for the USN.
Good Morning CDR Salamander, auspicious Wednesday. All eyes are focused on South Korea! I’m holding my breath. Will China’s President meet with our President? The security there must be tighter than a brand new thick rubber band. CDR thank you for posting photos of the auxiliary ships. “If ships could talk”, what would these two say? Their engines are so busy, their engineers so sweaty. The prudent person may choose to stay clear of the Engine Room spaces. What would the lovely swimming fish say about “Displaced Water?” I’d imagine the fish would be happy for the water’s movement. More food no doub! All God’s creatures are happy with our Logistical Ships at sea! Hurray for the hard working Koreans and our United States Navy!
Aye, Aye CDR Salamander, carrying out the Plan of the Day! Stay safe! Nurse Jane
CDR Sal, appreciate your continued focus on the critical support infrastructure and hulls of our naval forces. A warning: unless the Military Industrial Complex (MIC TM) major defense contractors (Looking at you NG) are involved and "getting their beak wet" as part of some convoluted "joint venture" arrangement, they will covertly fight this tooth and nail. Combined with their senior military and civilian DoW officials beholden to them and congressional allies, they will "maliciously comply" with the administration's directive if it doesn't enhance their personal bottom line. Kills me to have to say this, but the number of "public but anonymous" comments I'm reading defending "the way we've always done things" (some on this site!) and 48 years of experience in DoD(W) make this conclusion inescapable. Please keep fighting the good fight.
These ships will have plenty of GFE. Communications, maintenance, decoys, potential armament.
No doubt. But the real money in any ship building proposal win (at least it used to be) was (is) in the maintenance / follow on support. When we won the DD(X) Pascagoula was only going to build half the hulls. I was scandalized, was told to calm down, and shown where the "real" money in the deal was. Times change, may be totally different today. HII (they apparently bought Pascagoula back from NG or something...boy I'm out of date) knows the business and won't be surprised by anything, I'm sure.
What I really want to know is what engines and motors are in the Soyang class.
Only patriotism can motivate such engineering / fabrication as you indicate. Profit motive cannot do it. Cf. Russia's Burevestnik and Poseidon technologies, not to mention Kinshal, Zircon and Sarmat.
Oh, there can be profit in a MIC, must be. But if that is the basic motivation for achieving national safety, then that objective is unobtainable; everything will be financialized, monetized, to include you and me.
Our nation's enemies aren't "over there." Our own appetites do us in. *That* problem we can fix.
“South Korea wants access to U.S. Nuclear Submarine Fuel”, Chanel 24 National News Desk; did you catch DJT’s response? We will see…
Please, CDR, why does South Korea want U.S. Nuclear Submarine fuel? What do you think?
Also, let’s talk more about diverting our Navy Shipbuilding efforts from inside our U.S. all 50 States by this “Amazon” deal to bring $500 Million to South Korea?
South Korea is not on American soil? Trade deals ???
On the other hand, recall I’m the Attorney “In Training Status”, our American News reported thousands of Amazon “Corporate” positions eliminated!
CDR, is our U.S. Navy interested in these Amazon “Corporate” employees perhaps to help in Logistical and Administrative Support for the Skilled Japanese and South Korean Union Employees “Boiler Makers”, “Welders” U.S. Navy would like having living here on our Ship Building sites, Philly, Texas, Georgia, California, Louisiana, Maine, Alaska, Hawaii, Rosevelt Roads, PR.
CDR, did I just throw a Mud Pack against the wall, watching “What will stick?” Very respectfully, LCDR Swann.
Has anyone read anything about where these new shipyards would be established?
The US Navy won WWII in the Pacific because of their auxiliaries. The Navy used them to help build overnight advance bases as it moved across the Pacific. Look up "ice cream barge, Ulithi.
Warships win battles. Auxiliaries win wars.
I have a list of ship at Seeadler Harbor pre Leyte invasion. Of the ~600 ships there (incl LST's) there are 125 ships whose designation starts with an "A". Your point is made
Small but important point, it is ‘His Majesty’s New Zealand Ship’ not ‘The His Majesty’s New Zealand Ship’. As you often say the way we talk about Naval Matters matters.
God Save the King
The only thing kings are good for is feeding La guillotine. Charles I, the former King of England, Scotland and Ireland, was publicly executed on January 30, 1649, outside the Banqueting House on Whitehall, London. That was a great moment in human history. It proved that "the divine right of Kings" was a crook of bullshit.
Like all leftists you require human sacrifice be it the guillotine or the abortion mill.
Oliver Cromwell was a greater tyrant than Charles I ever was.
Yes, Cromwell was a greater tyrant than Charles, but, only because Ollie was focused and disciplined in his tyranny, and Charles was a Good-Time-Charlie. Cromwell was a conservative, evangelical Christian dictator, and a genocidal racist to boot.
But Charles needed to die. Government comes from the consent of the governed, not from the hand of God. The English people had duly elected representatives who passed proper laws. Charles broke those laws and in doing so committed treason. He was tried before a jury who found him guilty. The only way to end the scourge of an aristocracy is by execution.
It is unfortunate that every revolution seems to descend into a worse tyranny. Lenin, Robespierre, and Franco are brothers to Oliver Cromwell.
This is the point where our founding fathers did have wisdom. Good bless Geo. Washington. His revolution was not followed by a worse tyranny. Only George Washington had the balls to serve and give up the rod of power. He set an example for the world. He gave the world an example of successful self-government; a county where the people governed, free of kings and aristocrats.
Charles I was tried by a kangaroo court. Duly elected? You mean the Rump Parliament? Seriously?
You seem very eager to chop off the heads of kings and aristocrats.
The only problem is that anyone who has a cow or a farm might be considered an aristocrat as was the case under Stalin and Pol Pot.
Someone like you might be devoured by someone even more bloodthirsty.
"DAMN THE LAW, I SHALL HAVE HIS HEAD!"
I prefer a Christian king who rules by the grace of God than a socialist who says there is no such thing as God.
The trial and murder of Charles I is on par with that of Joan of Arc and Sir Thomas More. Judicial farces.
Look, the catholic church tried and failed to run govements on religious grounds. If the true church failed, how do you expect a bunch of dirty heretics to manage? If we want a religious leader to run the government, we should call on the Pope, not some heathen protestant.
But seriously, nobody lusts more to spill blood than the "Christian Kings," we survived as a nation by keeping religion in the church and out of City Hall. Your boy Cromwell, is exactly the sort of asshole you get when you let religion into government. Him and Tomás de Torquemada are peas in a pod.
Nobody? Hitler. Stalin. Mao. Pol Pot.
Castro. Ho. Khomeini. Idi Amin. Saddam. Qaddafi.
Good news indeed, in the vein of "professionals talk logistics"! Now get them to work on the floating dry docks and replenishment ships to reload missiles. Baby steps...baby steps.
Saddest posting I have read thus far.
The USA relaying on ROK expertise to build ship - an area it once dominated.
I'd submit, not just expertise...industrial capacity. How long would it take us to build the hulls we need using domestic (defense industry and commercial) yards? My time in ship building was brief and long ago, so I'm asking if we could do it.
The domestic yards can’t do it.
Pete: We aren't in the 1960s anymore. That's when my father would take me on his weekend shopping trips for hardware and lawn and garden supplies, and ridicule the poor quality of products made by "the Japs" (he was 15 years old when WWII ended and was a Korean War vet). In the 1970s, he complained about losing textile business to "the Japs." In the 1980s, my father owned his last Oldsmobiles. In the 1990s, my father started buying Toyotas.
My first car was a 1972 Olds Cutlass Supreme. It was a battle cruiser on wheels.
Pete: The first Olds that I recall my father owning, in the early-mid 60s, was a light blue F-85 station wagon. I suppose the model name (and the tail fins) were inspired by the names of fighter jets. Later, a Vista Cruiser, with windows over the back seat, was my favorite ride. The way-back of another Olds stationing wagon, with vinyl, faux-wood side panels, came in handy on weekend nights during my senior year in high school. I also transported a goat in the way-back for my fraternity sink night during college (nothing unsavory happened, but the goat gave the pledges something to worry about).
The goat is the Navy mascot but I still prefer girls.
Hey - we dominate in businesses where gross margin exceeds 80%
Anything with low margin will struggle to attract talent
Maybe. But China got its start making cheap things like toys. 50 years later they are exploring the moon.
“. . .the parade of poor performance this century from NAVSEA.”
This century? I'd submit that since at least the late-1980s that NAVSEA has made a goat rodeo look like a performance of the Belshoi Ballet.
Great news. It's about time we sought something better than the wasteful disappointments of our current examples of failure, always way over budget, short on quality and years behind schedule.
is VLS Reload gear written in the Base RFP?
There isn't an RFP. Yet?
no clue, but make sure VLS is addressed :)
Interesting. As the plank owner CO of a new "Handy size" oiler in the 80's, we need to be sure that the design process is truly operationally based. My "Handy sized" oiler (AO-179) had to be jumboized so that she and her sisters were truly effective in one stop shop logistics. Don't let he Washington cheese parers design on the cheap---we will just need to spend more down the road.
Glad you mentioned that Captain!
I would add the Tide Class to the list of very good logistics ships that are serving today. The Tide Class is a class of four fast fleet tankers that entered service with the British Royal Fleet Auxiliary from 2017.
I think the trick with those is they cease to be "light."
Curtis: I just checked out some images of Tide Class ships. Nice looking. Even sleek.
Maybe not so 'light' but could support a SAG or ARG/MAGTF/ESG. It goes fast enough, and has enough range. I am very impressed with the efficient and capable propulsion system.
This was a good move. Either class they have built would work. I wish I knew the engine selection inn the new ships SK is building for itself?