Everyone collects on everyone else. No surprise, that's the way the game is played. Had some unpleasant, but honestly not unexpected experiences when I worked with NATO. However, no excuse for us having Chinese "land grabs" around our key military installations, known threat and all that. UK government is currently in a "transition" towards an Islamic leaning government with Chinese-style surveillance / social credit scores (no "bigoted" social media post tolerated), massive CCTV coverage, and so on. Have to point out poor Chinese resource allocation. Taking out the majority of the UK military at its current size and state of readiness would only be a couple of hours work for the assets they have in place on British soil...no sarcasm tag here.
If and when the SHTF, simple matter to extend the boundaries of our military bases to encompass our Chinese "friends" (conveniently located close by). Their houses will make convenient base accommodations once they hightail it back to the PRC...
There'd be no reason to have assets close by if, when the SHTF happens, the assets weren't already employed, their damage done and then the sleeper agent dispersed.
Hard to blame the Chinese for doing what is in their interest. A lot of intelligence is open information that can easily be obtained by just by watching and listening.
T. E. Lawrence was an archeologist in the Middle East before he was Lawrence of Arabia.
Nations have interests, not friends. They will reliably act in those interests. And the Xinese play the LONG game. Always have. At least the Brits had the good sense to ban Xinese chips w/in range of their sensitive sites. Have we done the same?
Agree about the interests, quibble with "long" game. Since 1912 China has been a republic, fought a tough war with Japan, had a brutal civil war, gone full blown communist, suffered through cults of personality, Red Guards, the "great leap forward" (and resultant famine), the one child policy (which has them facing demographic collapse...depending which analytical prediction you believe), owns the record for murdering their own populace (Supplanting Stalin on the records were reviewed...their own records!)...I could go on. Point being, for many centuries they had "dynasties", and almost constant civil war. Not all that stable, but consistently repeating the cycle. Now they are only as stable as the party's control of the populace. For 70ish years or so, that has worked.
I see what you're saying, but... I'm talking about a cultural mindset that I think the West has a hard time grokking. This was first driven home to me in 1984 at the World's Fair in Knoxville, where there was a display of Chinese art. Masterpieces of ivory carving that had taken decades - generations - to complete. When my son was first learning Chinese in high school over a decade ago, he made an offhand comment that has stuck with me: "The way the language works, it's actually hard to construct a sentence in which you make yourself look good at someone else's expense." The Party with a strong Chairman isn't that far removed from an Emperor when you think about it. Like the Russians, the Chinese are accustomed to authoritarian rule. Who is the Emperor? Doesn't really matter (to anyone but him) so long as he is strong. And as soon as he shows weakness...
The one-child policy puzzled me, though. Getting a handle on population pressure and domestic food and energy production, ok. But the demographic impact... Raising two generations with no aunts, uncles, cousins, brothers or sisters, who never wear hand-me-downs, never have to wait their turn, and thanks to the cultural preference for sons, most of them male... and then I saw the photo of the dozen or so young men with identical travel kits crossing the border. No extended family ties or even close family ties other than parents and grandparents. Pure loyalty to the State and the Party. A Clone Army right out of Star Wars.
Yeah, the Long Game. We REALLY need to understand it. They are NOT playing by our rules.
Won't argue with any of that. Authoritarian dynasties like China and arguably, N. Korea (third generation familial leader defies the norm!) have a "stability" of sorts. This is due in no small part to the "ease" of government decision making. The West is somewhat democratic and messily relies on consensus decision making. Add in the various election cycles (U.S. is every four, no clue on Europe) and it's is easy to make the argument that by comparison China is a "long" game player...certainly longer than us! Also, I learned the hard way, we don't understand them...but they also don't understand us. Especially this administration. For better or for worse...(-;
LOL, he77, WE don't understand us! Arguably we have a two-year cycle, maybe less than that given that Reps start campaigning for re-election the minute after they're sworn in. It never ends.
But DJT has really upset the apple cart, and that's what got so many folks hung up I think. He broke their script. In some ways I think he's actually kind of a throwback to the Founders. No, not that he's some sort of Noble Patriot Demigod (though many see him that way, sure), but... in the mold of aristocratic, wealthy, landowners (land = busine$$ BITD unless you owned a fleet of ships or a bunch of warehouses). People with skin in the game. NOT professional politicians. but ACTUAL public servants taking time off from their very lucrative day jobs to give something back to the nation for a term or two, and then go back to private life.
Who the heck does that these days? Politics is the fastest way to get rich!
My step-daughter’s ex husband works for Intel visited mainland China and recently acquired a very cute Chinese girlfriend. I told my wife that she’s an obvious honey trap (vide, Swallwell, Eric).
Shandong University in China implements a "Buddy" program that was controversially interpreted as assigning Chinese female students as study companions to foreign (including African) students.
In 2019, Shandong University publicly apologized after its "Buddy" program drew intense criticism online.
A sign-up form showed an option for applicants to request a "buddy" of the opposite gender, which fueled online accusations that the program was intended to pair foreign male students with Chinese women.
The university was accused of arranging unequal pairings, with some foreign students matched with as many as three Chinese students, most of whom were reportedly female.
Ah, but in the UK, we are talking about the Starmer government. A government that recently sabotaged an espionage case involving the Chinese, allegedly to maintain normal relations with Beijing.
The UK is too preoccupied with controlling speech so as not to offend its growing foreign-born population.
Did a search on Google Maps. Found one trailer part to the west and two to the north of Whiteman AFB. But VFW Post 4195 is just a tad bit east of the two northern trailer parks. I'd worry more about the western trailer park.
A now retired friend of mine, formerly in the know of the goings on of the AFB, tells me the base leads in suicides and dysfunction in the ranks. Do they need a China headache on top of that? No.
There is a rather innocent explanation for this....and I'm surprised that you didn't know Cdr Salamander...
Britain used to have a colony called Hong Kong...
Practically all Chinese take-aways (not that many are restaurants) are run by Hong Kongers who have been in the UK for many decades....most pre-date the handover of HK to the PRC by 20-30 years...they're very integrated and are full citizens. Most are also not fans of the PRC having escaped from there into Hong Kong decades ago....
And the reason for the larger numbers of Chinese takeaways in Naval Bases? Again pretty innocent...many are run by ex-Hong Kongers who served in the RN or RFA....specifically these people ran the ships laundries onboard RN and RFA vessels, and as seamen in the RFA. They were primarily from the Tanka people in southern China who were historically discriminated against by the Cantonese and Hakka. Literal generations of these people served onboard ships, throughout peace and war. Fiercely loyal as well (it was a well paid gig) with extended families dominating the trade for decades. They also undertook other roles in the RFA (if you look at the list of dead on the RFA Sir Galahad in the Falklands you'll notice that 2 of the 5 crew killed were from HK. Seaman Chiu-Yui Nam was awarded the George Medal (Britains highest award, of equal rank as the Victoria Cross)
They weren't daft so when they retired and in some cases moved to the UK they set up takeaways and restaurants in the towns they knew, and had busy trade, that also had HK Chinese communities...i.e. Naval bases...
That's why the PRC uses Chinese triads to control and coerce other Chinese dissidents.
If the UK wants to get to the bottom of the Chinese spying game, it needs to recruit other Asians who can read Chinese body language and mind and get into their inner circles of opacity behind restaurants, gambling houses, and Chinatowns.
I suppose a great many of the establishments could be attributed to past colonial relationships. However, I would be more concerned about the Halal menu. That menu is very effectively over running the western world without a shot being fired and negligible resistance of any kind. The hajis laugh at stupid western idealogues while they screw us all ON OUR OWN DIME.
I tried the count here. It was roughly 4:1. However, there is a capital investment issue. The Indian restaurants that I looked at were quality sit-down restaurants, and a fair number of the Chinese restaurants were storefront takeout locations.
The UK has bigger problems than Chinese cooks, waiters, and wok washers sniffing around for (heh, heh) British military secrets...MUCH bigger.
Agree with the comment, but it does not diminish the threat.
'snice big horse statue the greeks left us; probably an homage to the strength of our defenses and our valiant stand...
Everyone collects on everyone else. No surprise, that's the way the game is played. Had some unpleasant, but honestly not unexpected experiences when I worked with NATO. However, no excuse for us having Chinese "land grabs" around our key military installations, known threat and all that. UK government is currently in a "transition" towards an Islamic leaning government with Chinese-style surveillance / social credit scores (no "bigoted" social media post tolerated), massive CCTV coverage, and so on. Have to point out poor Chinese resource allocation. Taking out the majority of the UK military at its current size and state of readiness would only be a couple of hours work for the assets they have in place on British soil...no sarcasm tag here.
If and when the SHTF, simple matter to extend the boundaries of our military bases to encompass our Chinese "friends" (conveniently located close by). Their houses will make convenient base accommodations once they hightail it back to the PRC...
There'd be no reason to have assets close by if, when the SHTF happens, the assets weren't already employed, their damage done and then the sleeper agent dispersed.
Hard to blame the Chinese for doing what is in their interest. A lot of intelligence is open information that can easily be obtained by just by watching and listening.
T. E. Lawrence was an archeologist in the Middle East before he was Lawrence of Arabia.
Nations have interests, not friends. They will reliably act in those interests. And the Xinese play the LONG game. Always have. At least the Brits had the good sense to ban Xinese chips w/in range of their sensitive sites. Have we done the same?
Agree about the interests, quibble with "long" game. Since 1912 China has been a republic, fought a tough war with Japan, had a brutal civil war, gone full blown communist, suffered through cults of personality, Red Guards, the "great leap forward" (and resultant famine), the one child policy (which has them facing demographic collapse...depending which analytical prediction you believe), owns the record for murdering their own populace (Supplanting Stalin on the records were reviewed...their own records!)...I could go on. Point being, for many centuries they had "dynasties", and almost constant civil war. Not all that stable, but consistently repeating the cycle. Now they are only as stable as the party's control of the populace. For 70ish years or so, that has worked.
I see what you're saying, but... I'm talking about a cultural mindset that I think the West has a hard time grokking. This was first driven home to me in 1984 at the World's Fair in Knoxville, where there was a display of Chinese art. Masterpieces of ivory carving that had taken decades - generations - to complete. When my son was first learning Chinese in high school over a decade ago, he made an offhand comment that has stuck with me: "The way the language works, it's actually hard to construct a sentence in which you make yourself look good at someone else's expense." The Party with a strong Chairman isn't that far removed from an Emperor when you think about it. Like the Russians, the Chinese are accustomed to authoritarian rule. Who is the Emperor? Doesn't really matter (to anyone but him) so long as he is strong. And as soon as he shows weakness...
The one-child policy puzzled me, though. Getting a handle on population pressure and domestic food and energy production, ok. But the demographic impact... Raising two generations with no aunts, uncles, cousins, brothers or sisters, who never wear hand-me-downs, never have to wait their turn, and thanks to the cultural preference for sons, most of them male... and then I saw the photo of the dozen or so young men with identical travel kits crossing the border. No extended family ties or even close family ties other than parents and grandparents. Pure loyalty to the State and the Party. A Clone Army right out of Star Wars.
Yeah, the Long Game. We REALLY need to understand it. They are NOT playing by our rules.
Won't argue with any of that. Authoritarian dynasties like China and arguably, N. Korea (third generation familial leader defies the norm!) have a "stability" of sorts. This is due in no small part to the "ease" of government decision making. The West is somewhat democratic and messily relies on consensus decision making. Add in the various election cycles (U.S. is every four, no clue on Europe) and it's is easy to make the argument that by comparison China is a "long" game player...certainly longer than us! Also, I learned the hard way, we don't understand them...but they also don't understand us. Especially this administration. For better or for worse...(-;
LOL, he77, WE don't understand us! Arguably we have a two-year cycle, maybe less than that given that Reps start campaigning for re-election the minute after they're sworn in. It never ends.
But DJT has really upset the apple cart, and that's what got so many folks hung up I think. He broke their script. In some ways I think he's actually kind of a throwback to the Founders. No, not that he's some sort of Noble Patriot Demigod (though many see him that way, sure), but... in the mold of aristocratic, wealthy, landowners (land = busine$$ BITD unless you owned a fleet of ships or a bunch of warehouses). People with skin in the game. NOT professional politicians. but ACTUAL public servants taking time off from their very lucrative day jobs to give something back to the nation for a term or two, and then go back to private life.
Who the heck does that these days? Politics is the fastest way to get rich!
An engineer would say, "believe your indications."
CDR Salamander, congratulations!
Please do not underestimate the Sub-Continent.
Anyone who travels back to China or India, annually, isn’t doing it for the favorable weather.
My step-daughter’s ex husband works for Intel visited mainland China and recently acquired a very cute Chinese girlfriend. I told my wife that she’s an obvious honey trap (vide, Swallwell, Eric).
All African males of significant stature studying in China were assigned a Chinese girl as a "study companion". You can read between the lines.
Height? Length? Position? :)
Shandong University in China implements a "Buddy" program that was controversially interpreted as assigning Chinese female students as study companions to foreign (including African) students.
In 2019, Shandong University publicly apologized after its "Buddy" program drew intense criticism online.
A sign-up form showed an option for applicants to request a "buddy" of the opposite gender, which fueled online accusations that the program was intended to pair foreign male students with Chinese women.
The university was accused of arranging unequal pairings, with some foreign students matched with as many as three Chinese students, most of whom were reportedly female.
Follow on, he tried to bring her to the US and she was denied entry to the US. “Visa issue”
What's really important is the endless bickering and drama of the Royal family. That takes precedent over any national security concerns.
Bloody wankers....
Demographic change will make the royals extinct.
Somewhere in Beijing, people are laughing.
The question is will they stop after Taiwan or get seduced by feverish dreams of prosperity in their sphere.
Ah, but in the UK, we are talking about the Starmer government. A government that recently sabotaged an espionage case involving the Chinese, allegedly to maintain normal relations with Beijing.
The UK is too preoccupied with controlling speech so as not to offend its growing foreign-born population.
Downing Street hasn't a clue.
That's nothing! In the US, we run huge, foreign espionage and training bases, called "universities."
And a Chinese-owned trailer park sharing the perimeter fence at Whiteman AFB, home of the B2 fleet.
Did a search on Google Maps. Found one trailer part to the west and two to the north of Whiteman AFB. But VFW Post 4195 is just a tad bit east of the two northern trailer parks. I'd worry more about the western trailer park.
A now retired friend of mine, formerly in the know of the goings on of the AFB, tells me the base leads in suicides and dysfunction in the ranks. Do they need a China headache on top of that? No.
Check out "Trailer Park Boys".
Curious how many of your commenters here are online enough to recognize that reference
By all accounts he was not a nice man.
My cultural references are for an audience of one.
I only knew because of YouTube. (And promptly forgot about him until the title of your post.)
There is a rather innocent explanation for this....and I'm surprised that you didn't know Cdr Salamander...
Britain used to have a colony called Hong Kong...
Practically all Chinese take-aways (not that many are restaurants) are run by Hong Kongers who have been in the UK for many decades....most pre-date the handover of HK to the PRC by 20-30 years...they're very integrated and are full citizens. Most are also not fans of the PRC having escaped from there into Hong Kong decades ago....
And the reason for the larger numbers of Chinese takeaways in Naval Bases? Again pretty innocent...many are run by ex-Hong Kongers who served in the RN or RFA....specifically these people ran the ships laundries onboard RN and RFA vessels, and as seamen in the RFA. They were primarily from the Tanka people in southern China who were historically discriminated against by the Cantonese and Hakka. Literal generations of these people served onboard ships, throughout peace and war. Fiercely loyal as well (it was a well paid gig) with extended families dominating the trade for decades. They also undertook other roles in the RFA (if you look at the list of dead on the RFA Sir Galahad in the Falklands you'll notice that 2 of the 5 crew killed were from HK. Seaman Chiu-Yui Nam was awarded the George Medal (Britains highest award, of equal rank as the Victoria Cross)
https://historicalrfa.uk/chiu-yiu-nam-gm-rfa/
They weren't daft so when they retired and in some cases moved to the UK they set up takeaways and restaurants in the towns they knew, and had busy trade, that also had HK Chinese communities...i.e. Naval bases...
Hm. Not unreasonable.
It takes an Asian to read another Asian.
That's why the PRC uses Chinese triads to control and coerce other Chinese dissidents.
If the UK wants to get to the bottom of the Chinese spying game, it needs to recruit other Asians who can read Chinese body language and mind and get into their inner circles of opacity behind restaurants, gambling houses, and Chinatowns.
https://www.newstatesman.com/international-content/2021/10/the-london-kidnapping-that-changed-china
Also the demographics of Portsmouth, which is whiter than England as a whole.
One-third or less of the south Asian populations of London, Birmingham, Manchester.
Anyways, how did it turn out when people were complaining about Japanese restaurants in California in the early 1940s?
I suppose a great many of the establishments could be attributed to past colonial relationships. However, I would be more concerned about the Halal menu. That menu is very effectively over running the western world without a shot being fired and negligible resistance of any kind. The hajis laugh at stupid western idealogues while they screw us all ON OUR OWN DIME.
You can't resist kebab supremacy.
I tried the count here. It was roughly 4:1. However, there is a capital investment issue. The Indian restaurants that I looked at were quality sit-down restaurants, and a fair number of the Chinese restaurants were storefront takeout locations.