When my dad retired (LtGen) his send off was picking up a box with a few momentos, and walking out of 15th AF HQ. No parade, no party.
My retirement (sort of - my Fini flight) was the plane getting hosed down by the base CFR trucks. Got the picture somewhere. Then I cleaned out my locker and went home, I had a shift at the hospital that night.
The general I was an AdC for? He wanted the big send off. I told him we could take care of that for him, he just needed to let me have his AMEX card since the Guard wasn't paying for it. He was proud of his scottish heritage and cheap. No party.
All right, that’s another ruined shirt with coffee spew after scrolling to the NORK picture!
My vote is current command “badges” only - command at sea, presidential/executive service, cdcm, etc. should no more after you leave the billet. (never wore my recruiting shields after Xfer)
Warfare insignia when not at sea is also kinda dumb, I treasured my silver cutlasses on shore duty (since only us hot runners had em) however since I was no longer qualified on a specific ship it really should not have been worn imho.
Distinguishing people and background based on their fruit salad seems a little short sighted too, collar devices,stripes and shoulder boards should be enough when you’re not currently fighting a ship/flying a plane/sinking a boat/driving a D5 dozer thru the jungle etc.
It would be a lot simpler command inspections if all the “full dress” medals and ribbons were left out of the process and we could focus on uniforms, grooming, weight standards.
Leave everything else in your shadow box, it does more to impress your grandkids than it does strutting around crystal city.
After Desert Storm, one of the LTjg's, still working on his SWO pin, got a NAM for honcho-ing the Cruise Book. That same little dipchit that I dragged out of his rack after he was an hour late relieving me on a stateside anchor watch. Yeah, I know I shouldn't have left the Bridge, but fury possessed me, and I wasn't gone but about 4 minutes. But then, I guess I'd find a way to begrudge him anything after relieving me late.
I haven't laughed this hard in a long time. The N.Korean uniforms are priceless. The U.S. is gamely trying, however. Participation trophies went from T-ball to military awards and no one noticed until they were buried in the avalanche...
No laughing matter, one of the U.S. senior flags pictured was someone I worked for directly...he was a notorious "badge hunter" who had a questionable "really passed the course" rate for some he attended...allegedly, allegedly.
A service uniform is a life history. I chose to remove all my "I showed up" ribbons and only put my commendations and overseas operations on my service uniform. In class B I wear just my wings and my CMB. But to each his own. I am not going to disparage any soldier who displays what they have earned. I was mentored by two great officers, both good friends from Vietnam and both had done the deal verifiable. One wore only three ribbons, a DSC, a SS and a PH. The other(one of his dearest friends) was at single A North Korean General. Every tab and all the bling.
So I had witnessed the room for both. That they were friends told me that the bling is irrelevant. It the man wearing it that matters. If we stop at bling to determine qualifications, we are not do our job in evaluating the battle spaces.
For me, I tried to split the difference between two great soldiers who gave me their wisdom freely.
As to the picture of the N Korean officers adorned with Medals from head to toe. They are allowed as a sign of respect and Honor to attach to their uniforms medals awarded to their Fathers and Grandfather's.
I seems to me that the war is ongoing, just at a sporadic pace. There's the tree incident where three American were killed, the USS Pueblo which KN still has and the Cheonan was sunk by North Korea in 2010.
Even worse are the commanding officers who have lots of medals but are extremely parsimonious when it comes to rewarding their own people. I have seen good sailors not reenlist out of frustration for having nothing to show after a tour of duty.
My 2nd Air Boss on Stennis would not award one of my ABEs a NCM because he did not have a NAM. The kid had found an issue with a part repair process, probably saved lives. Got the NAM. The CO of the ship did not have a NAM.
All those awards require documentation, starting with the LPOs of those divisions.
It doesn't require hand typing anymore, other than the particulars added to the cut & paste from last year's awards package, but still takes time/attention.
How long does it take every sailor to prepare a dress uniform?
Every ribbon & decoration awarded costs $, & they aren't cheap - the award for the Navy; for the sailor every other uniform it's required on. Patches cost $ to be sewed on.
All that bling takes up volume & adds weight, a critical factor in the performance of warships, especially submarines.
The Brits do it right - the officer rank matches the rows thru O-5, except that O-6 stays at 5, O-7 at 6 & O-8, -9 at 7.
I didn’t realize I could have bankrupted the Navy and sunk my ship with my eight rows of bling not to mention the various devices and badges. Good thing I didn’t wear the aiguillette with all those loops, too. Might have affected ship’s stability.
It does not. We tried that argument. Did not work. We even read the criteria for a NCM, which the kid clearly met. No dice. This was the same boss that was not happy to see our JG cryptologist that came from NSA had only a National Defense Medal and a DMS.
I had a total of 3 ribbons —MUC, sea service, sharpshooter—until my 9th year of naval service, which was 1990 Desert Shield & Storm. I was #1 EP in my first TWO competitive fleet fitness reports & was a Natops instructor in type (EP3) as an ENSIGN. I made mission commander (SEVAL) as a LTjg—only the second guy to do that while I was in a squadron with over 1100 people(VQ-1). No NAM, no NCM, no end of tour. Old Navy. I graduated with honors from NPS (one of only 2 in my engineering program). No ribbon, just non-observed fitrep bullet. If judged by my ribbons (until late 1990 gulf war ribbons started flowing in) I was a loser. My first personal
award was for performance as an electronic warfare planner in a war, in 1991. Go to my X account to see corroborating pics. @jkuehn50.
How ironic s it that the best example of a DC-General, Milley, who never won a war is the poster boy for ridiculous uniform bling! Milley is a woke Deep State politician in an Army uniform.
America has taken the first small step on the road to rebuilding an effective military. Giving officers metals, badges, and pins as participation awards - not recognitions of skill or courage - is a symptom of the deep rot.
A decade ago it was fashionable to boast that America had the best - most powerful - military in the world. That we keep losing wars didn’t dent the boasting.
I forgot the name of the article, but the author's main point was if you lose a battle, it's obvious you screwed up, so you're going to figure out how to win. A war, there's too many others to blame, so no one concentrates on that.
Compare Milley with the most decorated American soldier in WWII, Audie Murphy. When you take away all the national awards from liberated European nations, I think he had six or seven ribbons and the Medal of Honor. Milley’s chest says he’s been to a lot of places.
Again, those places consist of Golden Corral, Cracker Barrel (old version), International King’s Table Buffet, etc. He needed to spend sometime at The Fatman’s Table.
In the US Air Force, it was ALL of it on class-As. Anything else, the only thing you were required to wear were aviation badges. I had a full-sized set of ribbons for the Class-A, and a small bar with just a few I'd wear in -Bs, if the feeling struck me.
It reminds me of an old and now politically incorrect joke. The punchline was, the doctor says I'm impotent and if I'm impotent eyes going to dress impotent.
How about if we mandate two rows of ribbons - of the wearer's choice - as a maximum. And only one warfare insignia. Not to criticize the SEALs, but why do they wear the parachutist badge in addition to their "Budweiser?" You can't get the latter without already having the former.
USN / USMC Silver and Gold wings are not tied to other Badges. Under Navy Regs, it is a separate badge with a separate qualification pipeline. The +5 jumps* post jump school for Gold Wings can be made in any .mil jump op, not just SEAL jump ops. That is why the SEALs wear a separate badge for jumping. *I haven't verified that is still the standard.
Wasn't hard to achieve. I knew plenty of MIDN that got orders to jump school for a summer class and then got an addition 5 military jumps through the Military Parachute Club. Literally had been nowhere and done nothing but had gold jump wings.
It is an insert method. Whether one is a LCpl, a MIDN, or a CAPT...what matters is what you can do when you get there. I do know your jumps have to be .mil jumps, not just club jumps for a civ jumper. A .mil JM has to sign off. That said, it's a low bar, but I see so many 'Operators' posting gopro of hollywood jumps, that I don't really care. A good dude is a good dude. Gold wings are just eye candy if the uniform is hollow. The original point was that the SEALs wear GWs in addition to the Trident because they denote two different quals. Since dive ops are not inherent to earning the Trident, they do not wear a separate device for a diving qual.
While we are at it. How about Cashing every officer who is given an over the top send off.
We need some good old humiliation for those who waste resources and command time planning and hosting over the top send offs.
Make Cashiering Great Again
Stigma is a good thing when applied correctly, it drives community standards no?
When my dad retired (LtGen) his send off was picking up a box with a few momentos, and walking out of 15th AF HQ. No parade, no party.
My retirement (sort of - my Fini flight) was the plane getting hosed down by the base CFR trucks. Got the picture somewhere. Then I cleaned out my locker and went home, I had a shift at the hospital that night.
The general I was an AdC for? He wanted the big send off. I told him we could take care of that for him, he just needed to let me have his AMEX card since the Guard wasn't paying for it. He was proud of his scottish heritage and cheap. No party.
Admiral Byng has entered the chat ...
All right, that’s another ruined shirt with coffee spew after scrolling to the NORK picture!
My vote is current command “badges” only - command at sea, presidential/executive service, cdcm, etc. should no more after you leave the billet. (never wore my recruiting shields after Xfer)
Warfare insignia when not at sea is also kinda dumb, I treasured my silver cutlasses on shore duty (since only us hot runners had em) however since I was no longer qualified on a specific ship it really should not have been worn imho.
Distinguishing people and background based on their fruit salad seems a little short sighted too, collar devices,stripes and shoulder boards should be enough when you’re not currently fighting a ship/flying a plane/sinking a boat/driving a D5 dozer thru the jungle etc.
It would be a lot simpler command inspections if all the “full dress” medals and ribbons were left out of the process and we could focus on uniforms, grooming, weight standards.
Leave everything else in your shadow box, it does more to impress your grandkids than it does strutting around crystal city.
But how many medals did your friend in Afghanistan get for that valuable service?
Likely a Bronze Star.
After Desert Storm, one of the LTjg's, still working on his SWO pin, got a NAM for honcho-ing the Cruise Book. That same little dipchit that I dragged out of his rack after he was an hour late relieving me on a stateside anchor watch. Yeah, I know I shouldn't have left the Bridge, but fury possessed me, and I wasn't gone but about 4 minutes. But then, I guess I'd find a way to begrudge him anything after relieving me late.
I haven't laughed this hard in a long time. The N.Korean uniforms are priceless. The U.S. is gamely trying, however. Participation trophies went from T-ball to military awards and no one noticed until they were buried in the avalanche...
No laughing matter, one of the U.S. senior flags pictured was someone I worked for directly...he was a notorious "badge hunter" who had a questionable "really passed the course" rate for some he attended...allegedly, allegedly.
A service uniform is a life history. I chose to remove all my "I showed up" ribbons and only put my commendations and overseas operations on my service uniform. In class B I wear just my wings and my CMB. But to each his own. I am not going to disparage any soldier who displays what they have earned. I was mentored by two great officers, both good friends from Vietnam and both had done the deal verifiable. One wore only three ribbons, a DSC, a SS and a PH. The other(one of his dearest friends) was at single A North Korean General. Every tab and all the bling.
So I had witnessed the room for both. That they were friends told me that the bling is irrelevant. It the man wearing it that matters. If we stop at bling to determine qualifications, we are not do our job in evaluating the battle spaces.
For me, I tried to split the difference between two great soldiers who gave me their wisdom freely.
He only got one NAM? What a loser.
General Milley is more than entitled to thirty silver medals.
I think an albatross around his neck would be even more fitting.
All of the above?
And a few ChiComm medals.
Almost a lifetime ban. Don’t say crap like that here. I’ll delete the comment for you. Ponder your errors.
I always miss the amusing stuff.
Those 30 are passes to the dessert bar at Golden Corral.
He deserves bread and water and no more.
He can meet his buddy the former SecDef there! And help him get past the full-face shield, 3 masks, and the sneeze guard.
I saw what you did there.
As to the picture of the N Korean officers adorned with Medals from head to toe. They are allowed as a sign of respect and Honor to attach to their uniforms medals awarded to their Fathers and Grandfather's.
Which means the NORK military leadership is based on heritage, not competence.
Face it, the NORKS haven't been in a war since 1953
I seems to me that the war is ongoing, just at a sporadic pace. There's the tree incident where three American were killed, the USS Pueblo which KN still has and the Cheonan was sunk by North Korea in 2010.
Technically, I don't think there has been a formal end to that conflcit.
But the NORKS haven't really done much in the last 70 years, have they?
Even worse are the commanding officers who have lots of medals but are extremely parsimonious when it comes to rewarding their own people. I have seen good sailors not reenlist out of frustration for having nothing to show after a tour of duty.
You mean like Dugout Douglas MacArthur?
Didn't he award a Bronze Star to LBJ to get him out of theater? My uncle said it was the only thing he admired about Dugout Doug.
My 2nd Air Boss on Stennis would not award one of my ABEs a NCM because he did not have a NAM. The kid had found an issue with a part repair process, probably saved lives. Got the NAM. The CO of the ship did not have a NAM.
He should have got a NAM and a NCM for repairs and saving lives. Costs the navy nothing to award medals.
No doubt. My chief and I were pissed. Arresting gear engines are not exactly the kinds of machines that are forgiving when things go wrong.
Not so.
All those awards require documentation, starting with the LPOs of those divisions.
It doesn't require hand typing anymore, other than the particulars added to the cut & paste from last year's awards package, but still takes time/attention.
How long does it take every sailor to prepare a dress uniform?
Every ribbon & decoration awarded costs $, & they aren't cheap - the award for the Navy; for the sailor every other uniform it's required on. Patches cost $ to be sewed on.
All that bling takes up volume & adds weight, a critical factor in the performance of warships, especially submarines.
The Brits do it right - the officer rank matches the rows thru O-5, except that O-6 stays at 5, O-7 at 6 & O-8, -9 at 7.
I didn’t realize I could have bankrupted the Navy and sunk my ship with my eight rows of bling not to mention the various devices and badges. Good thing I didn’t wear the aiguillette with all those loops, too. Might have affected ship’s stability.
Kinda ridiculous, isn't it? But then, that's how the Admirals look.
I'll concede that the USS Ford isn't likely to turn turtle due to ribbons.
But as I pointed out above, w/Brits it's 8, w/the U.S. it's double that.
And I suspect you've never had to put that aiguillette into a 4 inch bunkpan.
Where in the Awards Manual does it state that a NAM is a prerequisite for a COM?
It does not. We tried that argument. Did not work. We even read the criteria for a NCM, which the kid clearly met. No dice. This was the same boss that was not happy to see our JG cryptologist that came from NSA had only a National Defense Medal and a DMS.
Yeah. I met the criteria for a COM but was "awarded" a NAM because I didn't already have one.
I had a total of 3 ribbons —MUC, sea service, sharpshooter—until my 9th year of naval service, which was 1990 Desert Shield & Storm. I was #1 EP in my first TWO competitive fleet fitness reports & was a Natops instructor in type (EP3) as an ENSIGN. I made mission commander (SEVAL) as a LTjg—only the second guy to do that while I was in a squadron with over 1100 people(VQ-1). No NAM, no NCM, no end of tour. Old Navy. I graduated with honors from NPS (one of only 2 in my engineering program). No ribbon, just non-observed fitrep bullet. If judged by my ribbons (until late 1990 gulf war ribbons started flowing in) I was a loser. My first personal
award was for performance as an electronic warfare planner in a war, in 1991. Go to my X account to see corroborating pics. @jkuehn50.
Hmm… Yes. And you actually know a few things. Alas. The ribbons & beeswax don’t tell the whole tale.
How ironic s it that the best example of a DC-General, Milley, who never won a war is the poster boy for ridiculous uniform bling! Milley is a woke Deep State politician in an Army uniform.
America has taken the first small step on the road to rebuilding an effective military. Giving officers metals, badges, and pins as participation awards - not recognitions of skill or courage - is a symptom of the deep rot.
A decade ago it was fashionable to boast that America had the best - most powerful - military in the world. That we keep losing wars didn’t dent the boasting.
https://fabiusmaximus.com/2015/05/04/does-america-have-the-finest-military-83879/
I forgot the name of the article, but the author's main point was if you lose a battle, it's obvious you screwed up, so you're going to figure out how to win. A war, there's too many others to blame, so no one concentrates on that.
How many wars must we lose before that self-deception no longer works?
For some of that, we crossed that date a few years back
Compare Milley with the most decorated American soldier in WWII, Audie Murphy. When you take away all the national awards from liberated European nations, I think he had six or seven ribbons and the Medal of Honor. Milley’s chest says he’s been to a lot of places.
Many of those places possibly on his knees in front of his CO at the time.
Again, those places consist of Golden Corral, Cracker Barrel (old version), International King’s Table Buffet, etc. He needed to spend sometime at The Fatman’s Table.
You think he could resist Cracker Barrel (new version)?
I remember a time when the directive was to wear the ribbons of only your top three awards.
In the US Air Force, it was ALL of it on class-As. Anything else, the only thing you were required to wear were aviation badges. I had a full-sized set of ribbons for the Class-A, and a small bar with just a few I'd wear in -Bs, if the feeling struck me.
Awards & ribbons have become the military version of frequent flyer points.
It reminds me of an old and now politically incorrect joke. The punchline was, the doctor says I'm impotent and if I'm impotent eyes going to dress impotent.
One of the classics!
“In the end, that is what this is: fiction and hyperbole.” 👈👈👈
How about if we mandate two rows of ribbons - of the wearer's choice - as a maximum. And only one warfare insignia. Not to criticize the SEALs, but why do they wear the parachutist badge in addition to their "Budweiser?" You can't get the latter without already having the former.
USN / USMC Silver and Gold wings are not tied to other Badges. Under Navy Regs, it is a separate badge with a separate qualification pipeline. The +5 jumps* post jump school for Gold Wings can be made in any .mil jump op, not just SEAL jump ops. That is why the SEALs wear a separate badge for jumping. *I haven't verified that is still the standard.
That was the reg back in the day. But...
Wasn't hard to achieve. I knew plenty of MIDN that got orders to jump school for a summer class and then got an addition 5 military jumps through the Military Parachute Club. Literally had been nowhere and done nothing but had gold jump wings.
It is an insert method. Whether one is a LCpl, a MIDN, or a CAPT...what matters is what you can do when you get there. I do know your jumps have to be .mil jumps, not just club jumps for a civ jumper. A .mil JM has to sign off. That said, it's a low bar, but I see so many 'Operators' posting gopro of hollywood jumps, that I don't really care. A good dude is a good dude. Gold wings are just eye candy if the uniform is hollow. The original point was that the SEALs wear GWs in addition to the Trident because they denote two different quals. Since dive ops are not inherent to earning the Trident, they do not wear a separate device for a diving qual.