This is good. This can make even the poorly equipped early FF(X)s somewhat lethal in ASW. If they can have a control station for these things with the CAPTAS 4 array as you're suggesting, then an FF(X) with a flock of these can clear a lot of ocean without needing to have the sonar themselves.
Very good article, very good call. Why? It's actionable NOW. Maybe not perfect for the reasons you list, but way better than "good enough" IMO. No personnel to man it, target prosecution can be relegated to the usual manned suspects when required, proven reliability and fit to purpose. Build it in numbers and field it now. While you still can.
My biggest concern is the array deployment/retreival mechanical interfaces. I spent way to much time in a kapok trying to get VDS/tactass cables unfarkellated to trust level wind ops to AI. All other items are such a no-brainer, I bet we don’t do it - we have such a bad track record of missing what’s at our feet…
The stuck cable is what ship's boats are for. CONOP: 1 Flight I with NSM on the back, but as ASW helicopter; 1 with Container CAPTAS and a RHIB on the back as well as the ASW helicopter. NSM one is for ships; CAPTAS and boat is ASW specialist, controlling the helicopters and USVs., as well as carrying the repair equipment for the USVs.
I’d like to see a SHAREM to play this conop out, sending a human out to fix cables seems a bit dodgy to me. Maybe a better understanding of what they engineered for cables and gear is what I need to see to judge the likelihood of failure, but I just know it’s gonna go sideways just when ya don’t need it to.
Couple thousand meters of cables on the drones, sail alongside, attach, and sail a bit away. Honestly not much maneuvering ability, but would get just far enough to help with say, triangulation of a sub.
To me, this is chasing the sexy instead of the practical. I chased some quiet submarines in my time and that ended 20 years ago. I can only guess they’ve become quieter. So “Long range persistent sensing.” Requires signal to noise ratio that doesn’t exist. Active sensing gives away the position of the drone. It’s not really clear to be how this is better than the long endurance, satellite connected, deployable buoy systems that already exist.
speaking as a bubblehead (a geek from Grotton) fantastic! Yes, let's build some, and then lets do the wargame. The only request is make the game realistic. None of this five mile wide chokepoint must stay shallower than 300 feet, must run MCPs in fast, must bang on the hull every two minutes, bullshit. The commies won't be so cooperative.
Some ten or so years ago I worked on a DARPA project involving a small uncrewed surface craft designed to be coached onto a hostile sub and keep pinging to say, “We know you’re here. Right here” and keep saying “Right here”. One of the questions then was what to do if/when a hostile party decides to board the craft. That project’s decision was to install a method of melting down the computer. I suggested adding an explosive charge to be triggered if anyone broached the hatch, but no one wanted to go that route at that point in time. Piracy should have immediate consequences.
This is good. This can make even the poorly equipped early FF(X)s somewhat lethal in ASW. If they can have a control station for these things with the CAPTAS 4 array as you're suggesting, then an FF(X) with a flock of these can clear a lot of ocean without needing to have the sonar themselves.
Very good article, very good call. Why? It's actionable NOW. Maybe not perfect for the reasons you list, but way better than "good enough" IMO. No personnel to man it, target prosecution can be relegated to the usual manned suspects when required, proven reliability and fit to purpose. Build it in numbers and field it now. While you still can.
but we need more than 5 a year considering the ASW hole we are in.
Have they consider MCM roles?
My biggest concern is the array deployment/retreival mechanical interfaces. I spent way to much time in a kapok trying to get VDS/tactass cables unfarkellated to trust level wind ops to AI. All other items are such a no-brainer, I bet we don’t do it - we have such a bad track record of missing what’s at our feet…
The stuck cable is what ship's boats are for. CONOP: 1 Flight I with NSM on the back, but as ASW helicopter; 1 with Container CAPTAS and a RHIB on the back as well as the ASW helicopter. NSM one is for ships; CAPTAS and boat is ASW specialist, controlling the helicopters and USVs., as well as carrying the repair equipment for the USVs.
I’d like to see a SHAREM to play this conop out, sending a human out to fix cables seems a bit dodgy to me. Maybe a better understanding of what they engineered for cables and gear is what I need to see to judge the likelihood of failure, but I just know it’s gonna go sideways just when ya don’t need it to.
Assign a crew of 3 for do-all, fix all when they aren't reading pulp novels? A Chief and two subordinates. I bet there'd be volunteers.
SD 2018 is in Lake Huron currently...
https://www.vesselfinder.com/?mmsi=338432783
This is the second time Ive seen sail drones out and about on Lakes Michigan/Huron in recent years.
The contest you suggest should be free play with a team of front line sailors from both communities as referees.
So...How does these work in an EMCON environment?
Any ASW prosecution ...even with AI... is going to be a communications intensive evolution.
I suspect the answer is "better a Legend than a Burke". Wouldn't surprise me if there's a fiber optic cable on the drones for severe EMCON scenarios.
How would that work and the ship and the drones be able to maneuver?
Couple thousand meters of cables on the drones, sail alongside, attach, and sail a bit away. Honestly not much maneuvering ability, but would get just far enough to help with say, triangulation of a sub.
couldn't that be done via LASER?
https://gizmodo.com/nato-tests-unjammable-undetectable-laser-comms-at-sea-and-it-worked-2000673703
15km range
Fog. That would work most of the time, though.
To me, this is chasing the sexy instead of the practical. I chased some quiet submarines in my time and that ended 20 years ago. I can only guess they’ve become quieter. So “Long range persistent sensing.” Requires signal to noise ratio that doesn’t exist. Active sensing gives away the position of the drone. It’s not really clear to be how this is better than the long endurance, satellite connected, deployable buoy systems that already exist.
speaking as a bubblehead (a geek from Grotton) fantastic! Yes, let's build some, and then lets do the wargame. The only request is make the game realistic. None of this five mile wide chokepoint must stay shallower than 300 feet, must run MCPs in fast, must bang on the hull every two minutes, bullshit. The commies won't be so cooperative.
Adding VDS creates an underwater hazard to submarines and subsurface vehicles. Who is SUBOPAUTH?
VACAPS is one idea. Don't we still operate the sub vs aircraft training range off St Croix?
I feel like the best 2 ASW candidates are the ones suing for not getting the MUSV selection. Let's look at the 2.:
Spectre (Saildrone):
Length: 52m long
Displacement: 250 tonne displacement but the sail version adds/takes up? 40 tonne
Speed: 12kn quiet, 25-27kn w 25 tonne payload, 30kn max
Range: 3,280nm flat water , 2,790nm SS4, 8000nm on sail
Propulsion: 2 shaft Codelod, Over 5000hp total Caterpillar diesels (guessing 3512s), Tested to SS5, electric motors are gear mounted
Max payload: 70 tonne
Planned production of 5 per year beginning w long lead purchases in October 2025.
Liberty (Blue Water Autonomy):
Length: 57.75m
Displacement: 770 tonne
Speed: 25knot quoted, parent does 26 max, 18 cruise, 9 on electric motor
Range: 10,000nm with 2-3 month endurance
Propulsion: 2 shaft/prop electric using 4 x 20' containerized Cat gensets which should be C32B generating no more than 1600kw (high end).
Max Payload: 150 tonne
Non full scale prototype to deliver by year's end.
What weapons can we put on these? I am a pessimist about connectivity; I think they need the ability to prosecute targets.
They just launched JAGM off a smaller one at RIMPAC.
Sounds like a valid agenda.
Some ten or so years ago I worked on a DARPA project involving a small uncrewed surface craft designed to be coached onto a hostile sub and keep pinging to say, “We know you’re here. Right here” and keep saying “Right here”. One of the questions then was what to do if/when a hostile party decides to board the craft. That project’s decision was to install a method of melting down the computer. I suggested adding an explosive charge to be triggered if anyone broached the hatch, but no one wanted to go that route at that point in time. Piracy should have immediate consequences.