This looks like absolute shit and the designers should be removed from the project. I was going to say they should be ashamed, but I’m sure they have no idea what GWOT even means.
The people who should be ashamed should know better. They should know what their fallen comrades would want to represent their ultimate sacrifice, because it should be memorialized and memorialized properly, and it ain’t this.
Appreciate your coverage of this and everything else that matters to the current (and former) rank and file.
I won't ever begrudge any veterans service being memorialized, but I cannot help but remember my WWII father (like the majority of WWII veterans) who never lived long enough to see their service memorialized by their nation because it took us almost sixty years to do so. Unforgivable.
I like the camel spider on a Rip-It can idea. Not that I get a vote, I'm just a tourist.
They probably *should* stick whatever they build out here in a particularly desolate chunk of New Mexico, or possibly Arizona or Southern California. Somewhere, y'know, *deserty*.
Terrorism is a tactic or technique. You might as well fight a global war on flank attacks. They might fade for a while, then some bright guy would bring them back and surprise everyone...again. You literally can't win.
Ten-four! Roger that! I concur! LCDR Swann, USN retired reporting… I have my AA Degree in Architectural Science and Certificates in Architectural Landscape and Interior Design, Magna Cum Lauds, 2010. Keep it Simple!
Do not wear out this poor 9/11/01 Veteran, me… who rode a camel in Petra, Jordan, rode a horse and was slapped in my face by the Iraqi of Al-Muzir Tribe, 2005. I was actively looking for leads to snare Osama bin Laden and every corrupt NGO using our American Tax Dollars to better themselves!
Now my son, USAF 03 Captain Squadron Commander serving in Deutschland, leads missions from the air, 30,000 feet, more or less. My son keeps ‘em Flying! Just as my father, Army Air Corps did WWII.
My uncle Eliot Goodwin, USN, fought the Japanese WWII.
A tiger never changes his stripes… black, or beige! December 11, 1941 … do not trust Japan to work in America’s best interest!
Architecture is important! Not Arches to commemorate presidents! Landscape matters! Our fallen heroes matter! Honor them because they gave their Service, their physical and mental health, their limbs and sadly, their very lives so we can be “Free”! Keep our architecture humble and on point…
Writing as a complete outsider to this debate: what strikes me most is a tension your post raises but doesn't quite resolve. Your strongest argument arrives last: that the meaning of GWOT itself remains unsettled: a war that began with clarity in 2001 and ended in Kabul in 2021 without consensus on what it achieved. Societies build memorials to encode a settled narrative into stone. But can you memorialize a war whose narrative is still contested? Perhaps the design feels empty to you not because the architects failed, but because there is, as yet, no shared story for any design to express? Abstraction may be what a society defaults to when it cannot agree on meaning.
That said, the argument weakens when it shifts from "this design fails the experience" to the designer's nationality and the crescent insinuation. If the test is whether veterans recognize their war in the form, that test stands on its own.
The "rest of the story" is that Stalin's tribe of Commies used material from the demolished cathedral to build the Moscow subway system. And some stations became shrines in their own right, where elderly babushkas would kneel and pray before marble slabs from the old church. (Still happens today, I am told.) And then the cathedral was rebuilt in 1990s on exact same site & footprint. It was a nationwide effort; all of Russia. Finest materials & craftsmanship... Russians compared it to a "resurrection"... Truly, a stunning piece of work. Which says something about building long-lasting, stunning pieces of work.
What really bothers me is that the Russians were able to rebuild a 19th century cathedral century cathedral yet the deep state and radical judges do everything they can to prevent Trump from cleaning up the reflecting pool. (They prefer a swamp.) Same for a desperately needed new ballroom or anything to honor our 250th birthday. (The Left prefers slums and doesn’t want to honor our nation.)
This one from 1952 is a favorite. The facade is made of precast concrete sections -- possibly replaceable, with some modifications, after a general nuclear war.
Old enough to remember when a young asian female architect designed another memorial and it was referred to as a "great gash of shame" carved into a hillside, and people likened it to a gravestone, etc. This is even more jarring than that Vietnam memorial. I will say any memorial takes on most of its dignity and personality from the people who come visit it and what THEY turn it into over the years. As we have seen, that great gash of shame turned into a place where flowers, flags and mementos are left at a tombstone some never got to visit in a real cemetery. They bring paper and pencil and go over a name with it to bring back home with them, the monument giving them back something they arrived without, a name carved in stone. The monument itself took on a dignity and a life all its own independent of the imagination of its designer. Having said that, I've looked at your picture here upside down and sideways and the only things I can see visitors doing with it are either irreverent and howlingly amusing in the darkness of the humor, or it will be shunned because of that implied crescent insult. This one needs to go back to the drawing board, and as Pete said, wait till the ayatollahs are done. This one is disrespectful and bizarre, and way too much greenery (an islamic color) to be associated with a war in that region. Tone deaf.
What happened to Greco-Roman or Neoclassic architecture ? Did anyone on that committee even look at this rationally or was the conversation focused on making it more inclusive.
This, ladies and gentlemen is another glaring example of diversity being shoved up our backside. Never underestimate the ability of certain groups to lessen the sacrifice and even knowingly insult the American veteran time and time again.
" In a sort of ghastly simplicity we remove the organ and demand the function. We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and bid the geldings be fruitful."
This looks like absolute shit and the designers should be removed from the project. I was going to say they should be ashamed, but I’m sure they have no idea what GWOT even means.
The people who should be ashamed should know better. They should know what their fallen comrades would want to represent their ultimate sacrifice, because it should be memorialized and memorialized properly, and it ain’t this.
Appreciate your coverage of this and everything else that matters to the current (and former) rank and file.
I'm thinking that they know exactly what they are doing and we are overdue for some Deus Vult action.
I could not agree more. I stand and support you with anything I can do from foxhole. CSM Laidlaw retired 35 years active service
"Long awaited...."
I won't ever begrudge any veterans service being memorialized, but I cannot help but remember my WWII father (like the majority of WWII veterans) who never lived long enough to see their service memorialized by their nation because it took us almost sixty years to do so. Unforgivable.
I like the camel spider on a Rip-It can idea. Not that I get a vote, I'm just a tourist.
They probably *should* stick whatever they build out here in a particularly desolate chunk of New Mexico, or possibly Arizona or Southern California. Somewhere, y'know, *deserty*.
Flight 93 Memorial is built atop a restored strip mine. Because that's where the airplane crashed, and the locale was an accident of fate.
This new GWOT Thing also resembles a restored strip mine. And I don't mean it as a compliment.
I forgot. Did we win or lose the GWOT? Does the proposed memorial answer that question?
Terrorism is a tactic or technique. You might as well fight a global war on flank attacks. They might fade for a while, then some bright guy would bring them back and surprise everyone...again. You literally can't win.
Let see:
Afghanistan - Same people in charge who were in charge on 9/10/01.
Iraq - Not quite but close to an Iranian vassal state.
Libya - 💩 show.
Syria - Our Al-Qaeda allies won! Wait, what?
Europe - Invaded by Muslims.
Where's the Dubya?
Ten-four! Roger that! I concur! LCDR Swann, USN retired reporting… I have my AA Degree in Architectural Science and Certificates in Architectural Landscape and Interior Design, Magna Cum Lauds, 2010. Keep it Simple!
Do not wear out this poor 9/11/01 Veteran, me… who rode a camel in Petra, Jordan, rode a horse and was slapped in my face by the Iraqi of Al-Muzir Tribe, 2005. I was actively looking for leads to snare Osama bin Laden and every corrupt NGO using our American Tax Dollars to better themselves!
Now my son, USAF 03 Captain Squadron Commander serving in Deutschland, leads missions from the air, 30,000 feet, more or less. My son keeps ‘em Flying! Just as my father, Army Air Corps did WWII.
My uncle Eliot Goodwin, USN, fought the Japanese WWII.
A tiger never changes his stripes… black, or beige! December 11, 1941 … do not trust Japan to work in America’s best interest!
Architecture is important! Not Arches to commemorate presidents! Landscape matters! Our fallen heroes matter! Honor them because they gave their Service, their physical and mental health, their limbs and sadly, their very lives so we can be “Free”! Keep our architecture humble and on point…
Honor to our living Veterans too!
Very respectfully, Nurse Jane.
Writing as a complete outsider to this debate: what strikes me most is a tension your post raises but doesn't quite resolve. Your strongest argument arrives last: that the meaning of GWOT itself remains unsettled: a war that began with clarity in 2001 and ended in Kabul in 2021 without consensus on what it achieved. Societies build memorials to encode a settled narrative into stone. But can you memorialize a war whose narrative is still contested? Perhaps the design feels empty to you not because the architects failed, but because there is, as yet, no shared story for any design to express? Abstraction may be what a society defaults to when it cannot agree on meaning.
That said, the argument weakens when it shifts from "this design fails the experience" to the designer's nationality and the crescent insinuation. If the test is whether veterans recognize their war in the form, that test stands on its own.
Kinda like the Barack Obama Presidential Center in Chicago...pure abstraction.
Obama wasn't a pedophile or rapist; let's just say he didn't fit the mold of a sociopathic narcissist like Trump.
It’s been contested 1400 years, we don’t have that long.
Well, the last great power leader who actually have fine artistic sence & classic taste in architecture was Joseph Stalin...
Oh please. Stalin tore down the magnificent Cathedral of Christ the Saviour.
The "rest of the story" is that Stalin's tribe of Commies used material from the demolished cathedral to build the Moscow subway system. And some stations became shrines in their own right, where elderly babushkas would kneel and pray before marble slabs from the old church. (Still happens today, I am told.) And then the cathedral was rebuilt in 1990s on exact same site & footprint. It was a nationwide effort; all of Russia. Finest materials & craftsmanship... Russians compared it to a "resurrection"... Truly, a stunning piece of work. Which says something about building long-lasting, stunning pieces of work.
What really bothers me is that the Russians were able to rebuild a 19th century cathedral century cathedral yet the deep state and radical judges do everything they can to prevent Trump from cleaning up the reflecting pool. (They prefer a swamp.) Same for a desperately needed new ballroom or anything to honor our 250th birthday. (The Left prefers slums and doesn’t want to honor our nation.)
" And some stations became shrines in their own right, where elderly babushkas would kneel and pray before marble slabs from the old church. "
Urban legend but nice one)
This one from 1952 is a favorite. The facade is made of precast concrete sections -- possibly replaceable, with some modifications, after a general nuclear war.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b1/Peshanaya_1_1952.jpg
I think we should wait to topple the regime in Teheran at which time the GWOT will have come to an end. It’s too soon to build a memorial.
You're against the memorial, I see what you did there.
I have no idea what you are trying to say. Are you Joe Biden?
You're waiting for the regime in Iran to get toppled, which isn't going to happen.
Why not?
There are numerous examples thought history of horrible regimes hat have been toppled.
You came close but you never made it. And if you were gonna make it, you would have made it before now.
What are you smoking?
What are you smoking?
I agree. A giant port a poddy with appropriate graffiti such as;
“Here I sit all tired and dirty;
Fucking off til 1630.”
Just one of many I have read over the years…
I’m no fan of the concept but it’s so radical it might actually draw visitors unlike a proper but boring classical design.
Adding a camelback spider is a good idea just like adding statues enhanced the Vietnam memorial which was also very controversial at the time.
Having said that I think we should wait until the ayatollahs are smashed to pieces at which time we can declared the GWOT over.
It’s also time to restore all the CSA names and monuments. It’s a sad day in America when we fail to honor Robert E. Lee.
Old enough to remember when a young asian female architect designed another memorial and it was referred to as a "great gash of shame" carved into a hillside, and people likened it to a gravestone, etc. This is even more jarring than that Vietnam memorial. I will say any memorial takes on most of its dignity and personality from the people who come visit it and what THEY turn it into over the years. As we have seen, that great gash of shame turned into a place where flowers, flags and mementos are left at a tombstone some never got to visit in a real cemetery. They bring paper and pencil and go over a name with it to bring back home with them, the monument giving them back something they arrived without, a name carved in stone. The monument itself took on a dignity and a life all its own independent of the imagination of its designer. Having said that, I've looked at your picture here upside down and sideways and the only things I can see visitors doing with it are either irreverent and howlingly amusing in the darkness of the humor, or it will be shunned because of that implied crescent insult. This one needs to go back to the drawing board, and as Pete said, wait till the ayatollahs are done. This one is disrespectful and bizarre, and way too much greenery (an islamic color) to be associated with a war in that region. Tone deaf.
First impression of this new proposal... A glorified skateboard park.
A !@&*^$@@#$) CRESCENT??? OHHELLNO.
What happened to Greco-Roman or Neoclassic architecture ? Did anyone on that committee even look at this rationally or was the conversation focused on making it more inclusive.
This, ladies and gentlemen is another glaring example of diversity being shoved up our backside. Never underestimate the ability of certain groups to lessen the sacrifice and even knowingly insult the American veteran time and time again.
" In a sort of ghastly simplicity we remove the organ and demand the function. We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and bid the geldings be fruitful."
C.S. Lewis
What an abortion !
Very white of you.
Hear hear...Concur with your article