I did a little back-of-the-envelope math using a Merc outboard as a ruler. They're designed to fit on 26-inch centers, so I think 4 engines would probably require a beam of about 150 inches or at least something in the neighborhood of 10+feet. That makes the length on the order 40 ft overall. Hard to tell, but that would seem to indicate a draft of around 5 ft. Sounds like plenty of room for people to get out of the wind and to stow cargo.
I'm guessing but that seems pretty small for four long haul engines, fuel, cargo, and 11 bodies, especially when I can't see that many of them topside. Don't know, of course.
"It appears that you can just do things" appears to be the defining modus operandi of the 47th. Good stuff, finally!
And I fully agree that people doing bad things should be handled like bad people, not like misunderstood ones. What I mean is, more of this, please, across the globe.
Old story: after Britain's first Labour government fell in the late 1920s or early 1930s, the Conservative government that replaced it promptly took the pound off the gold standard. Sidney Webb, the Fabian Socialist, commented, "I hadn't realized we were allowed to do that."
Goes to show you that unwritten norms really do cast a long shadow.
CDR Salamander, Like you I spent a couple years in counter-narcotics Caribbean deployments. However, this new dvelopment is not that. Looking at the array of Navy/Marine assets deployed to the Venezuelan coast. I believe the CIA is involved as we speak in attempting to orchestrate a military coup or civilina uprising (good luck with that as the CIA's track record is about 50% success rate over the years). The Marines on the ARG would play in narrowly securing some high value sites in country and perhaps taking custody of Maduro (recall the Panama Noriega overthrow). That makes a whole lot more sense than spending huge $$ in ligistically supporting 7 deployed ships and a nuclear submarine for any length of time. Watching it play out. r/Karl
Disagree. POTUS 47 seems to be uninterested in regime change and firmly in control. QED Iran. OTOH he seems to be *quite* determined to secure the borders by all means necessary, come what may and let the critics be damned. The assets are going to be there anyway for training. Might as well do some live-fire drills if there are legit targets.
Brendan, I respectfully disagree with your disagreement. The CIA (and I spent a very short bit of time with that organization, including at Langley HQ) is its own dynasty. They frequently don't care what the White House says. Maintaining this 'fleet' off the Venezuelan coast is quite expensive logistically. No friendly ports to dock and replenish. All accomplished by MSC logistics ships. And no, the assets are not going to be there for training anyway. That is not a good training location at all. To me this is a deliberate deployment to a specific area that is not the typical counter narcotics ops area (recall the 1983 Grenada invasion of which I was a part) - they had sent a deploying ARG diverted to Grenada for a brief period to conduct the overthrow of the armed Cubans there). r/Karl
The CIA may be it's own dynasty, but they're not going to be *overthrowing another country* on their own. They might be doing all manner of shady sh!t without official sanction, but an actual coup would be a couple of steps too far.
And we don't actually know what is deployed where. The Caribbean is our backyard per the Monroe Doctrine, so it makes sense that we'd have assets there. It's all a matter of having the will to use them, as the Commander noted.
It doesn't work like that. The softhanded Ivy grads who run the CIA don't want to go to jail--which would happen if they moved without first having a formal Presidential Finding that authorizes their action(s).
I know I was there. These armed Cubans were taking pot shots at us from the woods. They also had three armored personnel carriers and dozens of construction trucks and heavy equipment. Lot of souviner opportunities. We had piles of Cuban military clothing piled up free for the taking. The three star that led the ARG brought back an AK-47 and had it gold plated and mounted. He subsequently got into a lot of trouble for that. r/karl
The Rangers killed on the airstrip were killed by those 'construction workers' who were a Cuban Army engineering company. (1/4/168 Cuban Army Engineer Regiment.)
BTW: Don't bother with the 'official Army history.' Somebody scrubbed it. Hard. Various things in it aren't what actually happened. (The company commander was not 'ambushed.' He went out on a leader's recon (against doctrine) and got himself captured and executed.)
They had to be 'under contract by a British firm' because of Commonwealth Law at the time. The money was provided by Cuba acting for the Soviets.
I was there and knew multiple people, including the Ranger S3, who were there before me.
Agree in part and disagree in part. Agree with the "not CIA, not regime change". Not enough oompf. OTOH, there is enough firepower and boots to put ashore and lay a torch to the boatyards building the go-fasts and narco-subs. So, the potential for "training".
Boots ashore = invasion force = act of war. Muy no bueno. Interdiction at sea AND broadcasting the footage = sending a message. A different POTUS (Nixon, maybe) would have just quietly "disappeared" the boats and let the cartels speculate why the shipments weren't getting through. But 47 doesn't do "quiet."
And TBH we probably can't realistically interdict a meaningful fraction of the traffic even assuming 24/7 orbital overwatch. Big ocean, small boats. So we send a message: "Cuffs and a cot if you get caught" just got upgraded to "Vaya con Dios, amigo."
And the supply chain gets just a little harder to man. As you said, logistics.
Punitive Expedition Raid is no act of war. This smells like reminds ng the Leftist that have subverted out back yard while we were distracted that we have had enough.
No different than when the US was a ship building nation. I grew up on a coastal river that launched 1,000s of ships from dozen of yards.m many nothing more than an open field and boat ramp.
I agree. If the demand is there, a way will be found to supply it. Costs go up, way up, but the drug, or substitute drugs, will be made available. Too much money for it not to.
Drug addiction like incest starts at home. If Americans did not voraciously consume drugs, then less need to to send a flotilla to shoot up some little boat at whatever huge cost. The poisin is already here. Of note is the American Sackler family. The Sacklers owned Purdue Pharma, the company that developed OxyContin, the drug at the center of the U.S. opioid epidemic. The Sacklers', particularly Richard Sackler, aggressively pushed the drug's sales through fraudulent marketing to doctors stating that the drug was not addictive. focus on supply rather than demand. No jail time or suggestion that dropping explosives on them was a patriotic action.
A Cato Institute article by David Bier cites data that fentanyl Is smuggled for U.S. citizens by U.S. citizens. Fentanyl smuggling is ultimately funded by U.S. consumers who pay for the illicit opioids: nearly 99 percent of whom are U.S. citizens.
In 2022, U.S. citizens were 89 percent of convicted fentanyl drug traffickers at U.S.ports of entry. In 2023, 93 percent of fentanyl seizures occurred at legal crossing points or interior vehicle checkpoints, not on illegal ocean routes because U.S. citizens (who are subject to less scrutiny) when crossing legally are the best smugglers.
Aggressive drug interdiction exacerbates fentanyl smuggling. The fentanyl problem is a direct consequence of drug prohibition and interdiction. Dr. Jeff Singer has written:
"Fentanyl’s appearance in the underground drug trade is an excellent example of the “iron law of prohibition:” When alcohol or drugs are prohibited they will tend to get produced in more concentrated forms, because they take up less space and weight in transporting and reap more money when subdivided for sale."
The only appropriate response to the opioid epidemic is treatment of addiction. But for this to be possible, there must bepolicies that facilitate treatment and reduce the deaths from addiction. To develop these policies, policymakers need to ignore the calls to blame foreigners for our drug problems. But then ordering the feel good killing on the odd little boat, filled of course with only a full crew of only the worst unknown terrorists known to man, at staggering cost. It does, however, distract from that other Caribbean venture of identities undisclosed.
OK, to clarify - the Marines would NOT be conducting regime change. It would be the CIA assets in country. before you dismiss this idea for lack of knowledge, the CIA has been involved in over 30 coup attempts in foreign countries over the years. Very few have involved our military (Panama being the exception). All the Marines would be responsible for is to occupy some very limited high value targets and perhaps take Maduro out after he is deposed. This is not a military operation. Recall that the US involvement in Vietnam from the mid 1950s until the early 1960s was all CIA run, not DoD. The CIA has quite a bit of "punch" using contracted air and ground forces of their own. Classified but effective. r/karl
I agree (hence my comment about the CIA being only 50% succesful). However, the Bay of Pigs is a bad example. That failure was a political hit job. Kennedy never wanted to conduct that invasion. The DoD and CIA continued after the Presidential election with preparing for and initiating the invasion. Not only using 1500 armed Cuban exiles from Florida but also a US aircraft carrier and three black WWII era B-26s flown out of a base in Nicaragua to take out the three Cuban fighter jets. The B-26s had taken off to bomb Cuba and the aircraft carrier was getting within range when the Kennedy White House ordered all US military support to cease immediately. Kennedy had gotten cold feet because he was afraid of world opinion when it would be dicovered tha the US military was conducting an overthrow of the Castro regime. So the Cuban exiles were left stranded on the beach to get slaughtered. Very sad. r/karl
Kennedy's political problem was that if word got out he'd cancelled the invasion then he'd be roasted in the press and Congress as a coward. And word would get out, not least because 1500 Cuban exiles training in Guatemala would have no reason to be quiet if the op got cancelled and they were released to do who-knows-what.
According to his nephew, they woke JFK up in the middle of the night to say "Hey, we know you said no military support, but guess what?! We went anyway, and now you have to send support! Hahaha."
I can imagine, but I do not believe current PotUS is planning to put any but the spookiest of boots on the ground anywhere in Venezuela. I suppose I could be wrong, but his entire 47th admin has been about reducing ground combat outCONUS
CDR Salamander, you weren’t “Wrong”; you didn’t have all the information.
I wondered that too.
We can’t prove blown up merchandise is prohibited Drugs.
We can pray for God to have mercy on their souls!
True story, about 1982…perhaps, my beloved Tennis Coach, who name me “Nurse Jane”, 1977… Beaufort S.C., was detained on “Drug Charges” in another State further South.
CDR Salamander, my job is still to carry out the orders of SECDEF Hegseth at the pleasure of serving President DJT.
Well, it has eternal hardpoints, so it should be possible. But weapon separation can be 'interesting' and you have to add code to the aircraft avionics so it is probably a real project where you need a budget.
A quick search finds the Skyraider II to have a range of 3X the distance from Venezuela to Puerto Rico. With a good vector from a long range drone it would certainly be possible.
Much easier than convincing Americans to give up their drug use and Americans willing to mule the drugs across the border at points of entry.
Much cheaper and more effective is a policy that first responders will only provide Narcan to reverse an overdose at designated hospitals or clinics with records kept of Narcon provided. Opioid overdose emergency treatment-once is on us. After that, thoughts and prayers.
Trump should cease printing $100 bills. Call them all in. Demonetize them or allow them for only paying taxes. Imagine the drug dealers having to carry twice as many bills.
OFAC and FinCen for jurisdiction over foreign transactions. Check it out. For drug dealers in America, they don't drift down to the local bank and deposit their millions. The funds from the sale of drugs are taken/smuggled from the U.S. and enter the global financial system overseas. Costs about 15% of the total proceeds to wash the money. Take for example Trump Towers Baku in Azerbaijan. It was supposed to cost about $200 million but about $600 million ran through the buildout accounts. The hotel stands there, walled off and empty-it never opened. One of my daughters speaks Azerbaijani and when she was in Baku it was apparently a local joke about the hotel being used to wash all the money spent with everyone involved getting their piece. (Different daughter. I realize that in a response quite a while ago I spoke of a daughter that spoke Mandarin. A third daughter, however, only speaks Bloomingdale's.)
There are almost 700 Federal District judges. The Constitution never envisioned that each of these 677 judges should have the unilateral authority to veto the President.
Congress has to change the judiciary in this regard. Individual District judges cannot be allowed to make any decisions about a President's actions. Force Article III to convene a 3, 5, or 7-judge panel, consisting of judges from at least three Circuits, to hear any issue regarding the President's actions or decisions. Hard for Article III to do? Tough.
The Judiciary Act of 1789 intended that each circuit consist of three judges - two supreme court justices and one of the district judges making up the circuit. Specifically - "...which shall be called Circuit Courts, and shall consist of any two justices of the Supreme Court, and the district judge of such districts, any two of whom shall constitute a quorum: Provided, That no district judge shall give a vote in any case of appeal or error from his own decision; but may assign the reasons of such his decision." Founders clearly intended full Article 3 authority at the circuit court level. We have since devolved from that intent and that's part of the mess we find ourselves in. Now to your point on individual federal district judges acting willy nilly with some kind of deity mindset - concur.
I disagree. The Judiciary Act of 1789 is a creature of Congress, not the Founders. I find nothing in the Constitution that supports the Founders clearly intending full Article III authority to any body other than the Supreme Court. All inferior courts and any authority vested in them came from Congress, as authorized by the Constitution. Congress was not mandated to create any courts below the Supreme Court. The Constitution was written to be elastic, but the Founders could not have anticipated a country from sea to sea, fifty states, 330 million people, and 677+ Federal District judges, with each judge having the ability to veto a President's every move.
I understand that only a dozen or so rogue judges are causing all the angst, but the Supreme Court and Congress are allowing them to do so.
"The idea that the Founders intended for circuit courts to have full Article III authority is not definitively supported by the historical record. The design of the federal judiciary, particularly the lower courts, was a source of significant debate and compromise at the Constitutional Convention. The final text of the Constitution intentionally left the structure of the inferior courts to Congress to "ordain and establish," and the initial system differed significantly from today's. "
"Article III, Section 1 states that the judicial power is vested in "one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish". The use of "such" and the phrase "from time to time" makes it clear that Congress was not required to create lower federal courts at all. This was a direct result of a compromise at the Convention, with some delegates favoring only state courts below the Supreme Court."
I fully understand the deterrent effect, but I have to agree with the lefty president of Colombia - killing the pawns/smallest fish (who we have been previously been apprehending alive) would have been murder had their cartel not been declared as terrorists. Prisoners provide valuable intel, too.
This whole Venezuela thing is way more complicated than it appears on the surface. Cartels, Maduro, Guyana, Exxon. Chevron, Iran, and China are all in the mix.
Totally disagree with the Marxist President of Columbia. But will say totally agree we should kill the leaders and the foot soldiers. So will take his comment as approval to launch Flying Ginsu throw windows.
Response? (1) I don't have a problem with extraterritorial adjudications for people who's purpose in life is to make money off killing people with drugs. (2) As we see occasionally with home intruders who get caught and injured and sue for compensation, I expect a lawsuit in international court for wrongful death and damages. (3) As with the typical WH measured-response concept, I anticipate attacks and killings of US sailors in ports-of-call in the Caribbean. (4) Easiest way for drug cartels to demonstrate no-fear of USN is to put US Navy ship out of action = expect RPG attacks on US Navy ships from fishing boats while at anchor. (5) But while this is an attempt to cut off supply, as the Mexican president correctly identified, American demand is the problem. Like the CDR likes to cite his experience, I recall back in the 1970's when scientist/sci-fi writer Isaac Asimov was asked in interview about drug legalization, his reply was "Legalization! Hell, we should make them FREE! Then all the people wanting to experiment would get done, all the abusers would overdose and kill themselves off, and we'd just tax the rest!" I'd add the remaining taxed users would be prohibited from ever getting a security clearance.
For many decades libertarians made the argument that weed should be legalized. Eventually they won. Now we see that weed legalization has been a complete disaster. Legalizing harder drugs would be even worse.
Hate or like drugs, but the "War On Drugs" (that drugs won, by the way) has been the greatest sustained assault on personal liberty in this nation's history. However, that's part of the plan, and there are plenty of supporters to cheer it along. Meanwhile, the biggest dealers out there are Pfizer, et al... Just like Prohibition lined a lot of influential pockets.
Totally agree SPQR, the drug makers are turning us all into addicted zombies for every affliction out there. The food guys create and sell us on sugar and salt laden processed foods, causing obesity, and their drug buddies help "cure" us. The modern circle-of-life. As to Ming, I haven't looked lately at comparative deaths from hard drugs vs alcohol.
Killing those who profit from "killing people with drugs" could described as "selling to consenting adults who want a temporary good time".
</libertarianism>
Yeah, societies have rules. The Scandanavians have high taxes and harsh rules regarding selling booze. Long winters, with 18+ hour nights, do not mix well with cheap booze.
Controlling how others in your tribe, town, or nation choose to fog their minds has always been part of human society. Maybe we (the USA) need to bring back mental health asylums and aggressive treatment. Blowing up foreign smuggler boats is the easy part.
AGM-65s?? (I’m assuming a D model, of which, as a Hog Driver, I’m a big fan. It’s nice when the seeker head range of your missile extends beyond the aerodynamic range of said missile.) But I digress. My initial reaction was, “Gnat, meet sledgehammer.”
Back in the late Jurassic, I worked at the Center for Low Intensity Conflict out of Langley AFB. It’s a Joint outfit and we did drugs (so to speak) A LOT. In fact, I spent two years in the DEA helping them write their strategic plans.
Spent some time in Central America and the Caribbean, too. OPBAT anyone? Google it.
Anyway…
The DEA types, more specifically the Special Agents themselves, had a solution, something they were convinced would bring the cartels to their knees overnight: change the appearance of US paper currency and mandate that anyone with the old money could just bring it in for a one-to-one exchange.
For a business that runs exclusively on cash, that presents a problem. And if you’re a cartel functionary who deals with so many $20 bills that you just weigh it to count it…that’s a problem. “Where’d all this cash come from?” “Uhhh.” FWIW, I think a million in twenties is some like 20-25 pounds.
Of course, this would affect other non-drug related deals that American politicians would prefer not to upset, and changing the currency is, um, hard.
Besides jamming a Maverick up some drug runner’s ass is easier, cheaper and WAY more fun.
And the DEA were the first to admit that going after the demand, rather than the supply, is really the only way to solve the problem.
A million in $100s is about 22 pounds. So 110 lbs if in $20s. That's one of the reasons the EU stopped printing €500 - too easy to carry a lot of cash.
Sadly, that idea would only make Ottawa & London richer as they increase their laundering rates to swap the currency.
If Mark Carney had half a brain he’d agree to help Trump with Canada’s CCP drug labs in exchange for Trump to replace the currency. It would single handedly add 8-12% to Canada’s GDP and help solve their economic malaise.
(6) Just an observation on all the comments on the explosion and delivery method. I'm not an expert, but I did handle Navy and Marine Corps weapons budgets for a few years and saw all the demos, many in person. The size of the small boat explosion doesn't look big enough to be a Hellfire or Laser Maverick. So, hummm....
Far less reliable and require multiple nations to be involved.
At this point the border is closed & now the sea lanes are being shutdown.
They can increase transshipment thru Canada but at higher cost that will also see them cut out further by the CCP who will just increase precursor deliveries directly thru Vancouver and then final processing in the Triad Canadian Labs.
Lost in all this is the US has started targeting and ceasing precursor shipments.
You’re right. It would probably result in a higher transportation cost but, with the amount of profit that they make in the illegal drug trade, still doable.
If you are paying attention we have been engaged in major Shaping Operations.
The US has declared war in the Cartels & Triads. All the resources that read the Kremlin’s thoughts have been turned towards the Cartels & CCp Triads.
We closed the border which cut off a hige low cost two way transport route with multiple cash flows beyond just drugs, the DEA & ICE have been making sweeping arrests the most recent in New England where large number of TA where rounded up. Thus squeezing their US internal distribution.
Major busts seizing precursors & interdictions CCP shipments are on going into central america.
This on top of ICE deportations which continue to remove the human shield cover that’s provided them a large population to hide amongst. Add to it cutting off Federal funds that they use to live in the US while running their operations. Do people understand how we are paying the Cartels Living & Operating expenses with free hotels, healthcare, SNAP, & Section 8. That members directly receive and extort also from the illegals that are here.
Now comes the kinetic actions on their door steps. Also don’t sleep on what we are doing to going after Canada to force them to deal with their complicity in supporting the Triads & Cartels.
In 8 months we have done more than the last 25 years and these are only Shaping Operations.
As we have built the oicture and organized and arranged our resources we will see more and more results and those new transportation routes create more than costs they create opportunities for action on our side.
Think if it as closing up at the Badger Holes but 1 or 2 so you can focus all your firepower on quickly dealing with the den.
11 people in a boat that small? Were drugs really the primary cargo?
I still can't spot 11 souls on that boat.....
And what payload of drugs? It seems like small potatoes, no?
And the only US soil that boat could reach would be Puerto Rico (maybe)...
So, we haven't heard, "The Rest of the Story."
I believe a lot of drug shipments are staged through Cuba.
I think the drugs being heavy get stacked low in the boat, throughout the boat.
Agreed, I am just going with the information thus far released.
Looked like it had four outboards. Speed was definitely an objective.
I did a little back-of-the-envelope math using a Merc outboard as a ruler. They're designed to fit on 26-inch centers, so I think 4 engines would probably require a beam of about 150 inches or at least something in the neighborhood of 10+feet. That makes the length on the order 40 ft overall. Hard to tell, but that would seem to indicate a draft of around 5 ft. Sounds like plenty of room for people to get out of the wind and to stow cargo.
5 feet on a planning hull? I was thinking 3'
I'm guessing but that seems pretty small for four long haul engines, fuel, cargo, and 11 bodies, especially when I can't see that many of them topside. Don't know, of course.
What difference does it make?
If they were hauling people. Tired, poor, cooked meat mash yearning to be free.....
That stupid poem belongs in the Ellis Island Museum, no longer applies. Country's full.
I have 2 Rhode Islands of open space out my back door and 20 million people out my front door. There is room for good, ambitious, future Freedom Men.
Maybe, but that's not who is coming in. In any case, charity begins at home.
And realpolitik is making the best use of a resource rather than making it into a burden as we are doing.
They were all carrying Joints in their left breast pockets.
"It appears that you can just do things" appears to be the defining modus operandi of the 47th. Good stuff, finally!
And I fully agree that people doing bad things should be handled like bad people, not like misunderstood ones. What I mean is, more of this, please, across the globe.
"It appears that you can just do things"
Old story: after Britain's first Labour government fell in the late 1920s or early 1930s, the Conservative government that replaced it promptly took the pound off the gold standard. Sidney Webb, the Fabian Socialist, commented, "I hadn't realized we were allowed to do that."
Goes to show you that unwritten norms really do cast a long shadow.
Has anyone checked to see if one of these was in the vicinity? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_Grumman_MQ-4C_Triton
No weapons capability...but the search radar on that beast is formidable.
I worked on the radar back in the day. The maritime modes include targeting. And the EO system is capable of targeting below 10K ft.
CDR Salamander, Like you I spent a couple years in counter-narcotics Caribbean deployments. However, this new dvelopment is not that. Looking at the array of Navy/Marine assets deployed to the Venezuelan coast. I believe the CIA is involved as we speak in attempting to orchestrate a military coup or civilina uprising (good luck with that as the CIA's track record is about 50% success rate over the years). The Marines on the ARG would play in narrowly securing some high value sites in country and perhaps taking custody of Maduro (recall the Panama Noriega overthrow). That makes a whole lot more sense than spending huge $$ in ligistically supporting 7 deployed ships and a nuclear submarine for any length of time. Watching it play out. r/Karl
Disagree. POTUS 47 seems to be uninterested in regime change and firmly in control. QED Iran. OTOH he seems to be *quite* determined to secure the borders by all means necessary, come what may and let the critics be damned. The assets are going to be there anyway for training. Might as well do some live-fire drills if there are legit targets.
Brendan, I respectfully disagree with your disagreement. The CIA (and I spent a very short bit of time with that organization, including at Langley HQ) is its own dynasty. They frequently don't care what the White House says. Maintaining this 'fleet' off the Venezuelan coast is quite expensive logistically. No friendly ports to dock and replenish. All accomplished by MSC logistics ships. And no, the assets are not going to be there for training anyway. That is not a good training location at all. To me this is a deliberate deployment to a specific area that is not the typical counter narcotics ops area (recall the 1983 Grenada invasion of which I was a part) - they had sent a deploying ARG diverted to Grenada for a brief period to conduct the overthrow of the armed Cubans there). r/Karl
The CIA may be it's own dynasty, but they're not going to be *overthrowing another country* on their own. They might be doing all manner of shady sh!t without official sanction, but an actual coup would be a couple of steps too far.
And we don't actually know what is deployed where. The Caribbean is our backyard per the Monroe Doctrine, so it makes sense that we'd have assets there. It's all a matter of having the will to use them, as the Commander noted.
Easier to get forgiveness than permission?
It doesn't work like that. The softhanded Ivy grads who run the CIA don't want to go to jail--which would happen if they moved without first having a formal Presidential Finding that authorizes their action(s).
Armed Cubans under contract by a British construction firm.
I know I was there. These armed Cubans were taking pot shots at us from the woods. They also had three armored personnel carriers and dozens of construction trucks and heavy equipment. Lot of souviner opportunities. We had piles of Cuban military clothing piled up free for the taking. The three star that led the ARG brought back an AK-47 and had it gold plated and mounted. He subsequently got into a lot of trouble for that. r/karl
The Rangers killed on the airstrip were killed by those 'construction workers' who were a Cuban Army engineering company. (1/4/168 Cuban Army Engineer Regiment.)
BTW: Don't bother with the 'official Army history.' Somebody scrubbed it. Hard. Various things in it aren't what actually happened. (The company commander was not 'ambushed.' He went out on a leader's recon (against doctrine) and got himself captured and executed.)
They had to be 'under contract by a British firm' because of Commonwealth Law at the time. The money was provided by Cuba acting for the Soviets.
I was there and knew multiple people, including the Ranger S3, who were there before me.
Agree in part and disagree in part. Agree with the "not CIA, not regime change". Not enough oompf. OTOH, there is enough firepower and boots to put ashore and lay a torch to the boatyards building the go-fasts and narco-subs. So, the potential for "training".
http://www.hisutton.com/Fully-Submersible-Narco-Submarine-Apr-2022.html
Cartels have to consider logistics too and that would put a crimp in them.
Boots ashore = invasion force = act of war. Muy no bueno. Interdiction at sea AND broadcasting the footage = sending a message. A different POTUS (Nixon, maybe) would have just quietly "disappeared" the boats and let the cartels speculate why the shipments weren't getting through. But 47 doesn't do "quiet."
And TBH we probably can't realistically interdict a meaningful fraction of the traffic even assuming 24/7 orbital overwatch. Big ocean, small boats. So we send a message: "Cuffs and a cot if you get caught" just got upgraded to "Vaya con Dios, amigo."
And the supply chain gets just a little harder to man. As you said, logistics.
Punitive Expedition Raid is no act of war. This smells like reminds ng the Leftist that have subverted out back yard while we were distracted that we have had enough.
Understand they’re building the go-fasts, and semi-subs, up creeks and the like.
No different than when the US was a ship building nation. I grew up on a coastal river that launched 1,000s of ships from dozen of yards.m many nothing more than an open field and boat ramp.
You will never cut supply until you cut demand. You will just relocate the supply to the US. This is just whack a mole.
I agree. If the demand is there, a way will be found to supply it. Costs go up, way up, but the drug, or substitute drugs, will be made available. Too much money for it not to.
Drug addiction like incest starts at home. If Americans did not voraciously consume drugs, then less need to to send a flotilla to shoot up some little boat at whatever huge cost. The poisin is already here. Of note is the American Sackler family. The Sacklers owned Purdue Pharma, the company that developed OxyContin, the drug at the center of the U.S. opioid epidemic. The Sacklers', particularly Richard Sackler, aggressively pushed the drug's sales through fraudulent marketing to doctors stating that the drug was not addictive. focus on supply rather than demand. No jail time or suggestion that dropping explosives on them was a patriotic action.
A Cato Institute article by David Bier cites data that fentanyl Is smuggled for U.S. citizens by U.S. citizens. Fentanyl smuggling is ultimately funded by U.S. consumers who pay for the illicit opioids: nearly 99 percent of whom are U.S. citizens.
In 2022, U.S. citizens were 89 percent of convicted fentanyl drug traffickers at U.S.ports of entry. In 2023, 93 percent of fentanyl seizures occurred at legal crossing points or interior vehicle checkpoints, not on illegal ocean routes because U.S. citizens (who are subject to less scrutiny) when crossing legally are the best smugglers.
Aggressive drug interdiction exacerbates fentanyl smuggling. The fentanyl problem is a direct consequence of drug prohibition and interdiction. Dr. Jeff Singer has written:
"Fentanyl’s appearance in the underground drug trade is an excellent example of the “iron law of prohibition:” When alcohol or drugs are prohibited they will tend to get produced in more concentrated forms, because they take up less space and weight in transporting and reap more money when subdivided for sale."
The only appropriate response to the opioid epidemic is treatment of addiction. But for this to be possible, there must bepolicies that facilitate treatment and reduce the deaths from addiction. To develop these policies, policymakers need to ignore the calls to blame foreigners for our drug problems. But then ordering the feel good killing on the odd little boat, filled of course with only a full crew of only the worst unknown terrorists known to man, at staggering cost. It does, however, distract from that other Caribbean venture of identities undisclosed.
Regime change with battallion of Marines?
I hope you are VERY wrong.
Because, It would mean someone in the highest command was abusing the substances that were being intercepted here...
and it would turn into disaster like Mogadishu or Hostomel
OK, to clarify - the Marines would NOT be conducting regime change. It would be the CIA assets in country. before you dismiss this idea for lack of knowledge, the CIA has been involved in over 30 coup attempts in foreign countries over the years. Very few have involved our military (Panama being the exception). All the Marines would be responsible for is to occupy some very limited high value targets and perhaps take Maduro out after he is deposed. This is not a military operation. Recall that the US involvement in Vietnam from the mid 1950s until the early 1960s was all CIA run, not DoD. The CIA has quite a bit of "punch" using contracted air and ground forces of their own. Classified but effective. r/karl
Chavistas defeated already one or two coup attempts. I think they know a few things now about coup-proofing...
And as you have said, CIA has a mxed record. Cough, Bay of pigs, cough...
I agree (hence my comment about the CIA being only 50% succesful). However, the Bay of Pigs is a bad example. That failure was a political hit job. Kennedy never wanted to conduct that invasion. The DoD and CIA continued after the Presidential election with preparing for and initiating the invasion. Not only using 1500 armed Cuban exiles from Florida but also a US aircraft carrier and three black WWII era B-26s flown out of a base in Nicaragua to take out the three Cuban fighter jets. The B-26s had taken off to bomb Cuba and the aircraft carrier was getting within range when the Kennedy White House ordered all US military support to cease immediately. Kennedy had gotten cold feet because he was afraid of world opinion when it would be dicovered tha the US military was conducting an overthrow of the Castro regime. So the Cuban exiles were left stranded on the beach to get slaughtered. Very sad. r/karl
He also got a bunch of Alabama Air National Guard guys who were flying air support for the exiles killed.
Kennedy's political problem was that if word got out he'd cancelled the invasion then he'd be roasted in the press and Congress as a coward. And word would get out, not least because 1500 Cuban exiles training in Guatemala would have no reason to be quiet if the op got cancelled and they were released to do who-knows-what.
You are absolutely correct. That is why the ex-patriot Cuban population in Miami voted Republican for decades.
According to his nephew, they woke JFK up in the middle of the night to say "Hey, we know you said no military support, but guess what?! We went anyway, and now you have to send support! Hahaha."
and he told them "no meant no."
I can imagine, but I do not believe current PotUS is planning to put any but the spookiest of boots on the ground anywhere in Venezuela. I suppose I could be wrong, but his entire 47th admin has been about reducing ground combat outCONUS
CDR Salamander, you weren’t “Wrong”; you didn’t have all the information.
I wondered that too.
We can’t prove blown up merchandise is prohibited Drugs.
We can pray for God to have mercy on their souls!
True story, about 1982…perhaps, my beloved Tennis Coach, who name me “Nurse Jane”, 1977… Beaufort S.C., was detained on “Drug Charges” in another State further South.
CDR Salamander, my job is still to carry out the orders of SECDEF Hegseth at the pleasure of serving President DJT.
Amen!
How hard would it be to retrofit a P8 to carry Hellfires?
Well, it has eternal hardpoints, so it should be possible. But weapon separation can be 'interesting' and you have to add code to the aircraft avionics so it is probably a real project where you need a budget.
Where's Pappy Gunn when you need 'im?
"eternal hardpoints"
One can dream
Waste of a P-8.
OA-1K Skyraider II's first deployment? The Iwo Jima has enough length to operate those STOL aircraft.
A quick search finds the Skyraider II to have a range of 3X the distance from Venezuela to Puerto Rico. With a good vector from a long range drone it would certainly be possible.
You could have a solution ready for testing in 6 months. Then assume another 6 months for live fire testing & evaluation.
Much easier than convincing Americans to give up their drug use and Americans willing to mule the drugs across the border at points of entry.
Much cheaper and more effective is a policy that first responders will only provide Narcan to reverse an overdose at designated hospitals or clinics with records kept of Narcon provided. Opioid overdose emergency treatment-once is on us. After that, thoughts and prayers.
Trump should cease printing $100 bills. Call them all in. Demonetize them or allow them for only paying taxes. Imagine the drug dealers having to carry twice as many bills.
In for a penny, in for a pound.
Out with the penny, out with the Franklin. I like it.
Imagine old people with sciatica from sitting on thick wallets.
Ha. I moved my wallet to my front pocket for that very reason. Many years ago.
Cargo pants for me.
They don’t carry much cash. They just make deposits at TD Bank and the Canadians banks inject it into the systemZ
Which brings me to another point. It’s up to treasury to see that criminals and drug dealers have no access to the financial system.
The downside there being the system then uses that power to debank political dissenters.
The left uses government power to oppress the citizens while it ignores external threats
That’s true of Joe Biden and Sir Keir Starmer. They love open borders.
Yes, government misuses the power it is given. That is an argument to not give it to them.
Unfortunately government has been a reality since the first civilizations in Iraq. Our Founding Fathers did their best but the system is broken.
OFAC and FinCen for jurisdiction over foreign transactions. Check it out. For drug dealers in America, they don't drift down to the local bank and deposit their millions. The funds from the sale of drugs are taken/smuggled from the U.S. and enter the global financial system overseas. Costs about 15% of the total proceeds to wash the money. Take for example Trump Towers Baku in Azerbaijan. It was supposed to cost about $200 million but about $600 million ran through the buildout accounts. The hotel stands there, walled off and empty-it never opened. One of my daughters speaks Azerbaijani and when she was in Baku it was apparently a local joke about the hotel being used to wash all the money spent with everyone involved getting their piece. (Different daughter. I realize that in a response quite a while ago I spoke of a daughter that spoke Mandarin. A third daughter, however, only speaks Bloomingdale's.)
I hear there’s an apartment free in Moscow next to the one being used by Assad.
Great stuff!! Wonder how long it will take for some tame judge to issue an injunction against this?
There are almost 700 Federal District judges. The Constitution never envisioned that each of these 677 judges should have the unilateral authority to veto the President.
Congress has to change the judiciary in this regard. Individual District judges cannot be allowed to make any decisions about a President's actions. Force Article III to convene a 3, 5, or 7-judge panel, consisting of judges from at least three Circuits, to hear any issue regarding the President's actions or decisions. Hard for Article III to do? Tough.
The Judiciary Act of 1789 intended that each circuit consist of three judges - two supreme court justices and one of the district judges making up the circuit. Specifically - "...which shall be called Circuit Courts, and shall consist of any two justices of the Supreme Court, and the district judge of such districts, any two of whom shall constitute a quorum: Provided, That no district judge shall give a vote in any case of appeal or error from his own decision; but may assign the reasons of such his decision." Founders clearly intended full Article 3 authority at the circuit court level. We have since devolved from that intent and that's part of the mess we find ourselves in. Now to your point on individual federal district judges acting willy nilly with some kind of deity mindset - concur.
I disagree. The Judiciary Act of 1789 is a creature of Congress, not the Founders. I find nothing in the Constitution that supports the Founders clearly intending full Article III authority to any body other than the Supreme Court. All inferior courts and any authority vested in them came from Congress, as authorized by the Constitution. Congress was not mandated to create any courts below the Supreme Court. The Constitution was written to be elastic, but the Founders could not have anticipated a country from sea to sea, fifty states, 330 million people, and 677+ Federal District judges, with each judge having the ability to veto a President's every move.
I understand that only a dozen or so rogue judges are causing all the angst, but the Supreme Court and Congress are allowing them to do so.
"The idea that the Founders intended for circuit courts to have full Article III authority is not definitively supported by the historical record. The design of the federal judiciary, particularly the lower courts, was a source of significant debate and compromise at the Constitutional Convention. The final text of the Constitution intentionally left the structure of the inferior courts to Congress to "ordain and establish," and the initial system differed significantly from today's. "
"Article III, Section 1 states that the judicial power is vested in "one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish". The use of "such" and the phrase "from time to time" makes it clear that Congress was not required to create lower federal courts at all. This was a direct result of a compromise at the Convention, with some delegates favoring only state courts below the Supreme Court."
That is this layperson's opinion.
"But it won't go any further than that. It's the 'old Potomac two-step, Jack."
"I'm sorry, Mr. President, I don't dance." (⌐■֊■)
I fully understand the deterrent effect, but I have to agree with the lefty president of Colombia - killing the pawns/smallest fish (who we have been previously been apprehending alive) would have been murder had their cartel not been declared as terrorists. Prisoners provide valuable intel, too.
This whole Venezuela thing is way more complicated than it appears on the surface. Cartels, Maduro, Guyana, Exxon. Chevron, Iran, and China are all in the mix.
Totally disagree with the Marxist President of Columbia. But will say totally agree we should kill the leaders and the foot soldiers. So will take his comment as approval to launch Flying Ginsu throw windows.
Response? (1) I don't have a problem with extraterritorial adjudications for people who's purpose in life is to make money off killing people with drugs. (2) As we see occasionally with home intruders who get caught and injured and sue for compensation, I expect a lawsuit in international court for wrongful death and damages. (3) As with the typical WH measured-response concept, I anticipate attacks and killings of US sailors in ports-of-call in the Caribbean. (4) Easiest way for drug cartels to demonstrate no-fear of USN is to put US Navy ship out of action = expect RPG attacks on US Navy ships from fishing boats while at anchor. (5) But while this is an attempt to cut off supply, as the Mexican president correctly identified, American demand is the problem. Like the CDR likes to cite his experience, I recall back in the 1970's when scientist/sci-fi writer Isaac Asimov was asked in interview about drug legalization, his reply was "Legalization! Hell, we should make them FREE! Then all the people wanting to experiment would get done, all the abusers would overdose and kill themselves off, and we'd just tax the rest!" I'd add the remaining taxed users would be prohibited from ever getting a security clearance.
For many decades libertarians made the argument that weed should be legalized. Eventually they won. Now we see that weed legalization has been a complete disaster. Legalizing harder drugs would be even worse.
Hate or like drugs, but the "War On Drugs" (that drugs won, by the way) has been the greatest sustained assault on personal liberty in this nation's history. However, that's part of the plan, and there are plenty of supporters to cheer it along. Meanwhile, the biggest dealers out there are Pfizer, et al... Just like Prohibition lined a lot of influential pockets.
Totally agree SPQR, the drug makers are turning us all into addicted zombies for every affliction out there. The food guys create and sell us on sugar and salt laden processed foods, causing obesity, and their drug buddies help "cure" us. The modern circle-of-life. As to Ming, I haven't looked lately at comparative deaths from hard drugs vs alcohol.
I view Prohibition as the start of that particular flavor of freedom erosion
Killing those who profit from "killing people with drugs" could described as "selling to consenting adults who want a temporary good time".
</libertarianism>
Yeah, societies have rules. The Scandanavians have high taxes and harsh rules regarding selling booze. Long winters, with 18+ hour nights, do not mix well with cheap booze.
Controlling how others in your tribe, town, or nation choose to fog their minds has always been part of human society. Maybe we (the USA) need to bring back mental health asylums and aggressive treatment. Blowing up foreign smuggler boats is the easy part.
No on asylums. It will just be more prisons for business where money is people.
leaving these poor buggers out on the streets to fend for them themselves is not working well for them either.
I think some manner of incarceration is necessary, abuses of previous asylums notwithstanding.
If this is a sustained effort it will.
Touch our Boats and find out.
25 years ago, USS Cole, they did.
AGM-65s?? (I’m assuming a D model, of which, as a Hog Driver, I’m a big fan. It’s nice when the seeker head range of your missile extends beyond the aerodynamic range of said missile.) But I digress. My initial reaction was, “Gnat, meet sledgehammer.”
Back in the late Jurassic, I worked at the Center for Low Intensity Conflict out of Langley AFB. It’s a Joint outfit and we did drugs (so to speak) A LOT. In fact, I spent two years in the DEA helping them write their strategic plans.
Spent some time in Central America and the Caribbean, too. OPBAT anyone? Google it.
Anyway…
The DEA types, more specifically the Special Agents themselves, had a solution, something they were convinced would bring the cartels to their knees overnight: change the appearance of US paper currency and mandate that anyone with the old money could just bring it in for a one-to-one exchange.
For a business that runs exclusively on cash, that presents a problem. And if you’re a cartel functionary who deals with so many $20 bills that you just weigh it to count it…that’s a problem. “Where’d all this cash come from?” “Uhhh.” FWIW, I think a million in twenties is some like 20-25 pounds.
Of course, this would affect other non-drug related deals that American politicians would prefer not to upset, and changing the currency is, um, hard.
Besides jamming a Maverick up some drug runner’s ass is easier, cheaper and WAY more fun.
And the DEA were the first to admit that going after the demand, rather than the supply, is really the only way to solve the problem.
A million in $100s is about 22 pounds. So 110 lbs if in $20s. That's one of the reasons the EU stopped printing €500 - too easy to carry a lot of cash.
And..... $100 bills have a LOT to do with the US Dollar holding on to Reserve Currency status.
Sadly, that idea would only make Ottawa & London richer as they increase their laundering rates to swap the currency.
If Mark Carney had half a brain he’d agree to help Trump with Canada’s CCP drug labs in exchange for Trump to replace the currency. It would single handedly add 8-12% to Canada’s GDP and help solve their economic malaise.
(6) Just an observation on all the comments on the explosion and delivery method. I'm not an expert, but I did handle Navy and Marine Corps weapons budgets for a few years and saw all the demos, many in person. The size of the small boat explosion doesn't look big enough to be a Hellfire or Laser Maverick. So, hummm....
APKWS?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Precision_Kill_Weapon_System
Great coverage. I found it most interesting in trying to decode the acronyms. :D
Acronyms are the oxygen of the military
I’m in the telco world and we might only be second to the MIL in acronymisms. But MIl have funner meanings.
Oxygen is one word. I'm thinking of another word.
At this point, does changing the risk offer a chance of getting blown up and lost at sea make it less worthwhile to engage in drug smuggling?
Worth trying.
As I've said elsewhere, Mush Morton did *nothing* wrong. Frankly, the principle is applicable...beyond the specific case under discussion here.
No, it will just result in the cartels shifting their drug importation methods.
Far less reliable and require multiple nations to be involved.
At this point the border is closed & now the sea lanes are being shutdown.
They can increase transshipment thru Canada but at higher cost that will also see them cut out further by the CCP who will just increase precursor deliveries directly thru Vancouver and then final processing in the Triad Canadian Labs.
Lost in all this is the US has started targeting and ceasing precursor shipments.
So this is part of a much larger plan.
You’re right. It would probably result in a higher transportation cost but, with the amount of profit that they make in the illegal drug trade, still doable.
If you are paying attention we have been engaged in major Shaping Operations.
The US has declared war in the Cartels & Triads. All the resources that read the Kremlin’s thoughts have been turned towards the Cartels & CCp Triads.
We closed the border which cut off a hige low cost two way transport route with multiple cash flows beyond just drugs, the DEA & ICE have been making sweeping arrests the most recent in New England where large number of TA where rounded up. Thus squeezing their US internal distribution.
Major busts seizing precursors & interdictions CCP shipments are on going into central america.
This on top of ICE deportations which continue to remove the human shield cover that’s provided them a large population to hide amongst. Add to it cutting off Federal funds that they use to live in the US while running their operations. Do people understand how we are paying the Cartels Living & Operating expenses with free hotels, healthcare, SNAP, & Section 8. That members directly receive and extort also from the illegals that are here.
Now comes the kinetic actions on their door steps. Also don’t sleep on what we are doing to going after Canada to force them to deal with their complicity in supporting the Triads & Cartels.
In 8 months we have done more than the last 25 years and these are only Shaping Operations.
As we have built the oicture and organized and arranged our resources we will see more and more results and those new transportation routes create more than costs they create opportunities for action on our side.
Think if it as closing up at the Badger Holes but 1 or 2 so you can focus all your firepower on quickly dealing with the den.