As with the modern practice of media (no doubt with encouragement) referring to retired military and pols (now just ordinary citizens) by the title of the highest office they ever held. Mr. or Mrs./Ms. would and should do just fine.
What do you mean, modern? Weren't lots of people, especially southerners, doing that pre-civil-war? Including with local militia ranks or even arguably outright fictitious ranks?
I had a realtor (in So Cal) who was a 'legitimate' Kentucky Colonel. He had never been in the military, but was a good friend of the then governor of the state, and became his personal aide. The governor thought he should be appointed as a Colonel in the State Defense Force, so he could wear a uniform when the governor was doing military stuff.
When I was growing up, media people never addressed retired officials by the title associated with their former offices. American "leveling" required that officials once again become ordinary American citizens, on an equal footing with everyone else, after their terms of office expired. (I missed the pre-civil war era, alas.)
Many change of commands without a retirement ceremony included are just as bad, especially the ones held in the middle of summer in hot locales. I recall forced participation in a couple in Norfolk in the summer that were particularly brutal for everyone involved. Regarding the picture, wasn't there one adult present who could simply say this isn't right and have this event not be an embarrassment to everyone involved?
As a junior officer, I got roped into executing a bunch of retirements that cost the wardroom lots of money....as an aide to a two star, I organized a low-key but very nice ceremony for the boss and his family....when it came time for me to retire, I just left - no ceremony, no open bar, just a closing of the books, packing away uniforms and awards, and moving on.....never felt like I missed a thing....
My retirement date after 26 years was the day the ship returned to Mayport after deployment to Desert Storm in July 1991. I was burned out from sleep deprivation. Chronic lack of sleep that at 43 I could no longer handle well. Didn't want a ceremony, just my DD-214 and a check for travel pay back to my home in Pensacola. My XO (best guy ever) insisted I have a ceremony. Just the Ops department not on watch, at sea on the flight deck of our CG in the middle of the Atlantic. I am so glad my XO "made" me do it. I got the chance in my 3-minute prepared speech to thank my guys in CIC for their fine support and superior performance. The ceremony lasted 10-12 minutes. I look back and know that was a real a catharsis, a closure for me. I think that if I'd stuck to my guns and demanded no ceremony, I'd be a different person today. Perhaps bitter, resentful and still a burnout. Thank you, XO. I can't even remember your name. But I remember your wisdom and help.
After we cleared customs, I carried my bags ashore to my wife and kids waiting on the pier. Had given away my uniforms so I could travel light. Avoided getting gonged off the ship with sideboys so I could get home before sunset. Kind of sorry I left the sideboys hanging, but at least they never got called up.
On titles, I think it unseemly that in a Republic whose Constitution bans titles of nobility, every official gets to keep their highest title for life. Once you’ve retired, or lost an election, you shouldn’t be called Senator, Governor, or even President anymore. You’re back from representing the country overseas? You’re not an Ambassador anymore.
I like that idea, GD. Way too much Pomp & Ceremony for a Republic. Smacks of an Empire. Once you leave the job, you leave the title (and the security clearance).
It is unseemly and it is wrong. But we are unlikely escape to from the practice. I learned while serving with VP40 at Sangly Point that I was an enlisted puke. Same unit, I learned from a wonderful CDR that at a YN3, I was a god. However, I was a smaller god than the PO1 who was unhappy with me. Long ago retired, I do enjoy admitting I am a retired enlisted puke and I try to remember there really are folks senior to me.
Cantankerous crank that I am, my retirement ceremony involved me coming in off terminal leave, picking up a packet, signing out and motoring into the sunset.
I just vividly remembered listening to the comments of soldiers in formation when I was a shavetail and still could hear without computers in my ears.
"Cantankerous crank that I am, my retirement ceremony involved me coming in off terminal leave, picking up a packet, signing out and motoring into the sunset."
Yup. I'm already planning on wrapping up 30 years at my current employer (been working now for 52 years total), by signing off before I take my vacation (our lexicon for "leave"), and will be out sailing when the date hits next summer.
What a loss. We had a member of our internet club, a former HT3 and then a LT Naval Aviator who flew the E-2C Hawkeye. He showed up to our annual gun shoot at Knob Creek, KY with 300 White castle burgers and became a Mt Olympus legend. You know, you can consume that burger in one bite. Not much is more manly than gnarfing a whole cheeseburger in one bite. Kind of kept the flies away from the Porta-Potty's though. And made you stay upwind.
A provision in the next Defense appropriations bill limiting the expenditure of any appropriation (military personnel included) to a small amount—let’s say $500–would likely put a stop to it as the lower grade and rank personnel who have to process these transactions won’t take the chance of being found in violation of the Antideficiency Act and being held personally liable for the costs. A few years ago Congress included a provision limiting the cost of office renovation for new cabinet members for this very reason.
Another option would be a reporting requirement similar to the one included for conference expenses that is a general provision in the Financial Services and General Government appropriations act. Make the Services publish a report on their websites of GO/FO retirement costs by retiree name for each FY. Sunlight is a good disinfectant.
How many times have I seen thousands of dollars worth of Red, White & Blue bunting or new white (naugahyde or canvas) bunting for the life lines and white canvas on the deck thrown away after a change of Command Ceremony? How soon would the 1-800 number for fraud, waste, and abuse disappear if it got several hundred hits every time that happened? Short answer: "TNTC" and "PDQ".
On May 5, 2025, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth ordered the military services to eliminate at least 20% of their active-duty four-star general and flag officer positions.
Okay, Pete, this is now October. When will you fulfill your promise and fire these FOGOs?
Concur with your non-concur. Mike Boorda unfortunately didn’t get a retirement ceremony but he never forgot his roots. A little of his humility would be welcome.
Yep! They have become far too gaudy and, alas, worshipful. It's been going on a long time. The first one was too many.
As with the modern practice of media (no doubt with encouragement) referring to retired military and pols (now just ordinary citizens) by the title of the highest office they ever held. Mr. or Mrs./Ms. would and should do just fine.
What do you mean, modern? Weren't lots of people, especially southerners, doing that pre-civil-war? Including with local militia ranks or even arguably outright fictitious ranks?
‘Colonel’ Tom Parker, Elvis Presley’s manager?
And Sanders
I had a realtor (in So Cal) who was a 'legitimate' Kentucky Colonel. He had never been in the military, but was a good friend of the then governor of the state, and became his personal aide. The governor thought he should be appointed as a Colonel in the State Defense Force, so he could wear a uniform when the governor was doing military stuff.
Prickster's cousin....
https://www.pbs.org/video/retired-lt-col-jennifer-pritzker-on-trumps-efforts-to-ban-trans-troops-qutesn/
Thats one ugly dude. I can see the family resemblance.
yech I'm sorry I clicked the link
Anybody besmirching Colonel Sanders is cruising for a shiner.
When I was growing up, media people never addressed retired officials by the title associated with their former offices. American "leveling" required that officials once again become ordinary American citizens, on an equal footing with everyone else, after their terms of office expired. (I missed the pre-civil war era, alas.)
Many change of commands without a retirement ceremony included are just as bad, especially the ones held in the middle of summer in hot locales. I recall forced participation in a couple in Norfolk in the summer that were particularly brutal for everyone involved. Regarding the picture, wasn't there one adult present who could simply say this isn't right and have this event not be an embarrassment to everyone involved?
As a junior officer, I got roped into executing a bunch of retirements that cost the wardroom lots of money....as an aide to a two star, I organized a low-key but very nice ceremony for the boss and his family....when it came time for me to retire, I just left - no ceremony, no open bar, just a closing of the books, packing away uniforms and awards, and moving on.....never felt like I missed a thing....
There's much to be said for shaking hands, thanking people, and walking out the door.
My retirement date after 26 years was the day the ship returned to Mayport after deployment to Desert Storm in July 1991. I was burned out from sleep deprivation. Chronic lack of sleep that at 43 I could no longer handle well. Didn't want a ceremony, just my DD-214 and a check for travel pay back to my home in Pensacola. My XO (best guy ever) insisted I have a ceremony. Just the Ops department not on watch, at sea on the flight deck of our CG in the middle of the Atlantic. I am so glad my XO "made" me do it. I got the chance in my 3-minute prepared speech to thank my guys in CIC for their fine support and superior performance. The ceremony lasted 10-12 minutes. I look back and know that was a real a catharsis, a closure for me. I think that if I'd stuck to my guns and demanded no ceremony, I'd be a different person today. Perhaps bitter, resentful and still a burnout. Thank you, XO. I can't even remember your name. But I remember your wisdom and help.
After we cleared customs, I carried my bags ashore to my wife and kids waiting on the pier. Had given away my uniforms so I could travel light. Avoided getting gonged off the ship with sideboys so I could get home before sunset. Kind of sorry I left the sideboys hanging, but at least they never got called up.
...and it especially sucks when you are the Ensign assigned as mess treasurer prying that money out of people.
I was the AdC to a BGen in the Air Guard. Nice enough guy, bit of a military historian himself.
When he retired, he wanted the big party. I said "Cool! Let me have your Amex Card and I'll handle it, because the Guard isn't paying for it".
That was the last we spoke of it.
That’s called class.
I just quoted Jerry “what a long strange trip it’s been” and went home.
My buddy quoted Billy Joel. "Good luck movin' up cause I'm ... movin' out"
On titles, I think it unseemly that in a Republic whose Constitution bans titles of nobility, every official gets to keep their highest title for life. Once you’ve retired, or lost an election, you shouldn’t be called Senator, Governor, or even President anymore. You’re back from representing the country overseas? You’re not an Ambassador anymore.
I like that idea, GD. Way too much Pomp & Ceremony for a Republic. Smacks of an Empire. Once you leave the job, you leave the title (and the security clearance).
It is unseemly and it is wrong. But we are unlikely escape to from the practice. I learned while serving with VP40 at Sangly Point that I was an enlisted puke. Same unit, I learned from a wonderful CDR that at a YN3, I was a god. However, I was a smaller god than the PO1 who was unhappy with me. Long ago retired, I do enjoy admitting I am a retired enlisted puke and I try to remember there really are folks senior to me.
He was LTJG Grady when we were classmates in ASW Officer School (Capt. Vern Clark, Commanding) in 1986. My god, where did the time go?
San Diego? Must have gone through about the same time I did. I hope you haven't forgotten the sonar equation....
Unfortunately, it was in Norfolk!
They want that, cool.
Bill 'em.
Cantankerous crank that I am, my retirement ceremony involved me coming in off terminal leave, picking up a packet, signing out and motoring into the sunset.
I just vividly remembered listening to the comments of soldiers in formation when I was a shavetail and still could hear without computers in my ears.
Smaller is better.
ABSOLUTELY! And no one gets to claim anything as a “training exercise”.
That is roughly what I did. I said thank you to those who deserved it, ignored those that needed to be ignored, grabbed my family and went home.
"Cantankerous crank that I am, my retirement ceremony involved me coming in off terminal leave, picking up a packet, signing out and motoring into the sunset."
Yup. I'm already planning on wrapping up 30 years at my current employer (been working now for 52 years total), by signing off before I take my vacation (our lexicon for "leave"), and will be out sailing when the date hits next summer.
No cake. No speech.
Congrats, Sid. Enjoy the sunsets!
Thanks!
I wish over the top retirement ceremonies were the biggest problem facing the Navy.
I was taken out to lunch in Crystal City when my time came and that was fine by me.
I would be happy to give 500 of our current flags a gaudy and spectacular ceremony if they agreed to an immediate retirement.
🤣
Same.
Crystal City Restaurant?
White Castle. All You Can Eat.
https://whitecastle.com/dA/a55890327d/6pk_original-wfood.png
Better!
It was definitely not White Castle.
What a loss. We had a member of our internet club, a former HT3 and then a LT Naval Aviator who flew the E-2C Hawkeye. He showed up to our annual gun shoot at Knob Creek, KY with 300 White castle burgers and became a Mt Olympus legend. You know, you can consume that burger in one bite. Not much is more manly than gnarfing a whole cheeseburger in one bite. Kind of kept the flies away from the Porta-Potty's though. And made you stay upwind.
That’s the trouble when you get promoted to a high rank. You miss out on those smaller pleasures.
I believe this is linked to other problems too.
Next you will be complaining about the number of ribbons on par with North Korea.
Naah. The Front Porch covered it in far better depth than I could already. :-)
Huzzah!! Mike Roark USMA '71
As a boat sailor, this is just so over the top as to be a parody of itself.
Kind of lost touch with Navy reality, I think.
Sadly, it seems, that a big flashy show is about what the USN is about these days.
Be nice if they had some substance behind the ego trip.
Objection your Honor, assumes facts not in evidence, to whit, it assumes that admirals ever had touch with reality.
I admit an ass-u-ming that they were once youngsters, but it's true I have no proof.
many American zampolits made it to high office in the last fifteen years. They were never in touch with Navy reality.
A provision in the next Defense appropriations bill limiting the expenditure of any appropriation (military personnel included) to a small amount—let’s say $500–would likely put a stop to it as the lower grade and rank personnel who have to process these transactions won’t take the chance of being found in violation of the Antideficiency Act and being held personally liable for the costs. A few years ago Congress included a provision limiting the cost of office renovation for new cabinet members for this very reason.
Another option would be a reporting requirement similar to the one included for conference expenses that is a general provision in the Financial Services and General Government appropriations act. Make the Services publish a report on their websites of GO/FO retirement costs by retiree name for each FY. Sunlight is a good disinfectant.
How many times have I seen thousands of dollars worth of Red, White & Blue bunting or new white (naugahyde or canvas) bunting for the life lines and white canvas on the deck thrown away after a change of Command Ceremony? How soon would the 1-800 number for fraud, waste, and abuse disappear if it got several hundred hits every time that happened? Short answer: "TNTC" and "PDQ".
First order of business is to reduce the number of Flags.
This is the way!
On May 5, 2025, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth ordered the military services to eliminate at least 20% of their active-duty four-star general and flag officer positions.
Okay, Pete, this is now October. When will you fulfill your promise and fire these FOGOs?
Concur with your non-concur. Mike Boorda unfortunately didn’t get a retirement ceremony but he never forgot his roots. A little of his humility would be welcome.
Concur. I was taken back as well when I saw it on LinkedIn.
Commander:
Heartily Concur.
Keep up the good work. You are Spot On!
Very respectfully,
Jack Whitney aka
Captain Jack
Is that a pic of a Las Vegas Floor Show?
Jack: Barry Manilow, still working at age 82, was booked that night.
Celine Dion, 57. Still belting out power ballads.