MV stands for Motor Vessel with internal combustion engines as opposed to steam propelled. Several types owned by MSC. You can click on each for a description of namex ships
Well, maybe I just don't know, but counting auxiliaries (T-AGOS, T-AS, and T-AO) as battle force seems off to me.
Especially the "T" ships, those are primarily civilian manned and, SFAIK, have always been in the SERVRON. For that matter, even dropping the T (and fully manning with USN personnel) doesn't make them a warship, which is what one would expect that battle force to be.
We are tracking the same lineup. SCN is largely aligned to their base budget lines....positive news. However, the key concerns will be the APN and WPN budgets. Large percentage of these accounts will be under reconciliation funding (i.e. TACAIR funding ....Tomahawk, and SM-6 funding are dependent on reconciliation). If not passed it will be uphill fight to remedy this shortfalls and more significantly, how will be handled politically. Other items of note: MIB (Maritime Industrial Base) was zeroed out.
I recommend that the USN invest in weapons to stop the Chinese using mine-laying submarines to trap the USN in port.
Still, the armed forces that haven't kept up to date on drones and hypersonic missiles is hardly likely to want to pay any attention to anything as humdrum as mines, eh?
1 x Columbia SSBN _ ballistic missile submarines (strategic); nuclear powered
2 x SSN_ Fast attack submarines, nuclear power (tactical) with tactical attack missiles (non-nuke)
1 x DDG-51 _Burke class guided missile destroyer_AEGIS and ABM capable
1 x FF(X)_future concept Frigate sized escort, possibly with robust missile (FFG)
1 x LHA_amphious assault ship; med. size straight deck carrier for Marines; mix of helos and F-35B VSTOL ; will probably have a well deck for landing craft
1 x LPD_amphibious ship with well deck for landing craft and large helo deck aft
LHA and LPDs work in Amphibious Ready Groups (ARG) to carry a Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU) of reinforced battalion sized Marines and air assets wherever needed
1 x T-AGOS SURTASS_ ocean surveillance ship...monitors all facets of ocean strategically
2 x T-AO _ underway replenishment- oiler and others stores
2 x T-AS(X) - submarine tender (repair ship)
6 x LSMs_landing ship (medium) Marine requested ship for medium lift capability for Marines
Tom, the answer is graft. Get the blue cities interested in building them and Congress will act. Even Randi Weingarten will support it if it creates scores of teachers who will now pay union dues and vote Democrat. The cities will support larger unions, their kickbacks and their votes.
You ruin the depth of your useful knowledge and comments with this "blue cities" nonsense. Imagine you wake up one day and "blue" is gone, I suspect that perfection is not at hand.
Reread "Six Frigates" and the financial and buildout difficulties in construction of six heavy frigates, but only after by a narrow margin of 46–44, the House of Representatives voted to authorize the creation of a navy.
Please remind me of a deep water coastal city outside the gulf states that has a red mayor. It's always been political. But now its codified in red and blue.
Since it has always been political, get on with it and find a way.
The biggest opposition for increased Navy funds is not the blue, but the Army and the Air Force along with its Space Force component. The Navy receives about 31-34% of the military budget and it isn't going to get a higher percentage if the Air force and Army have anything to say about it. How that Navy percentage is spent is the task at hand. You have substantially more expertise in that area than me. Use it.
The heavy-and-highway construction markets often use design-build techniques. Those raise partial funding and start the design work. That way, construction of the fundamentals can begin before the detailed designs are complete.
I gather our military procurement is not there yet.
A road is a road for the most part. There have been more program failures from beginning construction before the details were worked out than from having a complete set of plans in hand before cutting steel. USS Constellation, anyone?
In road or other relatively uncomplicated projects like utilities you often encounter unexpected conditions that you need to field engineer around and update the prints later. It's a known unknown.
A big difference is that those building materials don't have much in the way of lead time. In some cases you could call today for deliver tomorrow.
Note that serious stuff, like bridges and large structures like parking garages and tall buildings don't do design build. You design it, the PE reviews it and signs off and changes have to go back through review.
We need to have a long talk. Politics is not graft.
Graft is personal corruption, it is not the people's representatives compromising with the representatives of other people to pass laws both sides think necessary and proper. Those of us who see unions as a fundamental right of association are Americans too. Unions are the only way labor can stand up to organized Capital. Liberals and leftist have fought and died for this nation just as much and right-wing conservatives. In a nation where folks are free to organize it is not "graft" to adopt legislation to reflect the legitimate concerns of union men and women.
But, today is not the time to have that talk, I'm really busy. Let me turn to the words of that lefty liberal, Publicus. "The rights of neutrality will only be respected when they are defended by an adequate power. A nation, despicable by its weakness, forfeits even the privilege of being neutral." The Federalist Nr. 11. Write your Representative. Demand he return the United States to the business of building warships in government yards.
(1) The Pentagon hasn't officially rolled out the FY 2027 budget so no budget books out there yet. Here's the link once they do: https://comptroller.war.gov/Budget-Materials/. This is the OSD Comptroller link (I worked in OSD comptroller for two years after leaving Navy comptroller). Once opened, this link has all the overarching materials (like the weapons book) and also has links to the individual military service budgets like Navy (https://www.secnav.navy.mil/fmc/Pages/Fiscal-Year-2027.aspx), where you'll see all the details of the ships. All the ships CDR is listing should be in the Shipbuilding and Conversion, Navy (SCN) appropriation book. Small boats, called Standard Boats, is in the Other Procurement, Navy (OPN) appropriation. That's where you find all the harbor boats, riverine craft, special ops stuff. (I used to manage OPN for five years.)
(2) While I see "discussion" below about blue state shipyards and union wages, people should know one of the reasons why Navy isn't getting the ships it need and the private sector lacks shipbuilding capacity is the low wages paid by these shipyards. Commander, Naval Sea Systems Command (NAVSEA) himself has publicly admitted starting welders and pipefitters are paid only comparable to kids working at McDonalds! Of course, Navy itself hasn't addressed this critical issue because that's up to the "free market". China, South Korea, Germany, Finland, Italy and others don't have this problem because they all pay living wages. With the White House proposing a substantial pay raise for the military, it really needs to get on track and just include a five-year phased baseline wage increase into shipyard workers, union or not. That's what we did years ago to bring off-base housing BAH into line with market prices (15% increase at 3% a year).
fireboats. shades of BonHomme Richard...
https://www.msc.usff.navy.mil/Ships/Ship-Inventory/
There are several ships owned by the Mikitary Sealift Command
MV stands for Motor Vessel with internal combustion engines as opposed to steam propelled. Several types owned by MSC. You can click on each for a description of namex ships
See in particular one ship formerly known as MV
See also. The MSC lists a few ships as HOS. More research indicates the following
https://hornbeckoffshore.com/fleet
The Other Sal was quite happy that the Navy was buying fireboats. And I think we all are. Now a couple heavy lift ships for salvage and transport.
I like this ensemble of war!
Counting fireboats, ship to shore connectors, and especially LCAC SLEPs (the boats already exist) as non-battle force ships is a real stretch.
Well, maybe I just don't know, but counting auxiliaries (T-AGOS, T-AS, and T-AO) as battle force seems off to me.
Especially the "T" ships, those are primarily civilian manned and, SFAIK, have always been in the SERVRON. For that matter, even dropping the T (and fully manning with USN personnel) doesn't make them a warship, which is what one would expect that battle force to be.
We are tracking the same lineup. SCN is largely aligned to their base budget lines....positive news. However, the key concerns will be the APN and WPN budgets. Large percentage of these accounts will be under reconciliation funding (i.e. TACAIR funding ....Tomahawk, and SM-6 funding are dependent on reconciliation). If not passed it will be uphill fight to remedy this shortfalls and more significantly, how will be handled politically. Other items of note: MIB (Maritime Industrial Base) was zeroed out.
I recommend that the USN invest in weapons to stop the Chinese using mine-laying submarines to trap the USN in port.
Still, the armed forces that haven't kept up to date on drones and hypersonic missiles is hardly likely to want to pay any attention to anything as humdrum as mines, eh?
Could you give a translation of the abbreviations/codes for the battle force ships? Thanks.
1 x Columbia SSBN _ ballistic missile submarines (strategic); nuclear powered
2 x SSN_ Fast attack submarines, nuclear power (tactical) with tactical attack missiles (non-nuke)
1 x DDG-51 _Burke class guided missile destroyer_AEGIS and ABM capable
1 x FF(X)_future concept Frigate sized escort, possibly with robust missile (FFG)
1 x LHA_amphious assault ship; med. size straight deck carrier for Marines; mix of helos and F-35B VSTOL ; will probably have a well deck for landing craft
1 x LPD_amphibious ship with well deck for landing craft and large helo deck aft
LHA and LPDs work in Amphibious Ready Groups (ARG) to carry a Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU) of reinforced battalion sized Marines and air assets wherever needed
1 x T-AGOS SURTASS_ ocean surveillance ship...monitors all facets of ocean strategically
2 x T-AO _ underway replenishment- oiler and others stores
2 x T-AS(X) - submarine tender (repair ship)
6 x LSMs_landing ship (medium) Marine requested ship for medium lift capability for Marines
Sal is excited about the fire boats.
My bet is they are looking at an updated class of these. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Forty_Three
The problem is we can’t build ships. The law says we build two subs a year. Do we?
Tom, I'll keep pounding that graft drum until you get those blue city shipyards!
It’s not “graft.” It is the inherent motivation of the “cost plus” contract. The duopoly has no incentive to build ships on time or on budget, none.
Tom, the answer is graft. Get the blue cities interested in building them and Congress will act. Even Randi Weingarten will support it if it creates scores of teachers who will now pay union dues and vote Democrat. The cities will support larger unions, their kickbacks and their votes.
You ruin the depth of your useful knowledge and comments with this "blue cities" nonsense. Imagine you wake up one day and "blue" is gone, I suspect that perfection is not at hand.
Reread "Six Frigates" and the financial and buildout difficulties in construction of six heavy frigates, but only after by a narrow margin of 46–44, the House of Representatives voted to authorize the creation of a navy.
Early days, no blue to screw.
Please remind me of a deep water coastal city outside the gulf states that has a red mayor. It's always been political. But now its codified in red and blue.
Since it has always been political, get on with it and find a way.
The biggest opposition for increased Navy funds is not the blue, but the Army and the Air Force along with its Space Force component. The Navy receives about 31-34% of the military budget and it isn't going to get a higher percentage if the Air force and Army have anything to say about it. How that Navy percentage is spent is the task at hand. You have substantially more expertise in that area than me. Use it.
Pithy is not a line item in the budget.
Fireboats good!
Now, lets discuss the T-AH. Because the Mercy-class ships are old, slow, too large and frankly not well laid out.
And the Ship to Shore Connectors? LCACs or .... replacement for the wreckage left at Gaza?
Yeah at 200 million a pop we need some other options. LCU is too slow, MSVL should be redesigned to fit a well deck and be a better LCU replacement.
We should also do some of our own Chinese style landing barges. They need not be as elaborate and they probably need to be more mobile. We already have a starting point with the recently completed wind farm vessel Charybdis. https://maritime-executive.com/article/first-u-s-built-wtiv-charybdis-arrives-in-virginia-to-begin-installations
Those Chinese Ro-Ros are a slick design. And they do not require anything like a warship design.
But five years to build the Charybdis? That's about three years too long.
Looking for one or more BB lines, still cannot find them.
Those aren't even designed yet.
Thanks, that addresses my comment.
The heavy-and-highway construction markets often use design-build techniques. Those raise partial funding and start the design work. That way, construction of the fundamentals can begin before the detailed designs are complete.
I gather our military procurement is not there yet.
A road is a road for the most part. There have been more program failures from beginning construction before the details were worked out than from having a complete set of plans in hand before cutting steel. USS Constellation, anyone?
In road or other relatively uncomplicated projects like utilities you often encounter unexpected conditions that you need to field engineer around and update the prints later. It's a known unknown.
A big difference is that those building materials don't have much in the way of lead time. In some cases you could call today for deliver tomorrow.
Note that serious stuff, like bridges and large structures like parking garages and tall buildings don't do design build. You design it, the PE reviews it and signs off and changes have to go back through review.
You have made my point much better than I did. Thank you. The more complicated something is, the more unknown unknowns are involved.
LOL!
Bottom of page 138. 1 billion in advance procurement.
Thank you!
great article that explains these important differences in USN/MSC ships.
Thanks for the data!
We need to have a long talk. Politics is not graft.
Graft is personal corruption, it is not the people's representatives compromising with the representatives of other people to pass laws both sides think necessary and proper. Those of us who see unions as a fundamental right of association are Americans too. Unions are the only way labor can stand up to organized Capital. Liberals and leftist have fought and died for this nation just as much and right-wing conservatives. In a nation where folks are free to organize it is not "graft" to adopt legislation to reflect the legitimate concerns of union men and women.
But, today is not the time to have that talk, I'm really busy. Let me turn to the words of that lefty liberal, Publicus. "The rights of neutrality will only be respected when they are defended by an adequate power. A nation, despicable by its weakness, forfeits even the privilege of being neutral." The Federalist Nr. 11. Write your Representative. Demand he return the United States to the business of building warships in government yards.
Want to build ships in Philadelphia? Better grease a few palms.
https://billypenn.com/2021/02/26/philadelphia-corruption-1000-convictions-federal-court-political-scandals/#:~:text=Yet%20the%20current%20situation%20shows,a%20wink%20and%20a%20nod.%E2%80%9D
(1) The Pentagon hasn't officially rolled out the FY 2027 budget so no budget books out there yet. Here's the link once they do: https://comptroller.war.gov/Budget-Materials/. This is the OSD Comptroller link (I worked in OSD comptroller for two years after leaving Navy comptroller). Once opened, this link has all the overarching materials (like the weapons book) and also has links to the individual military service budgets like Navy (https://www.secnav.navy.mil/fmc/Pages/Fiscal-Year-2027.aspx), where you'll see all the details of the ships. All the ships CDR is listing should be in the Shipbuilding and Conversion, Navy (SCN) appropriation book. Small boats, called Standard Boats, is in the Other Procurement, Navy (OPN) appropriation. That's where you find all the harbor boats, riverine craft, special ops stuff. (I used to manage OPN for five years.)
(2) While I see "discussion" below about blue state shipyards and union wages, people should know one of the reasons why Navy isn't getting the ships it need and the private sector lacks shipbuilding capacity is the low wages paid by these shipyards. Commander, Naval Sea Systems Command (NAVSEA) himself has publicly admitted starting welders and pipefitters are paid only comparable to kids working at McDonalds! Of course, Navy itself hasn't addressed this critical issue because that's up to the "free market". China, South Korea, Germany, Finland, Italy and others don't have this problem because they all pay living wages. With the White House proposing a substantial pay raise for the military, it really needs to get on track and just include a five-year phased baseline wage increase into shipyard workers, union or not. That's what we did years ago to bring off-base housing BAH into line with market prices (15% increase at 3% a year).
The low wages and job stability are exactly why I support Mr. Yardley's call for public shipyards.
I agree, but it also has its drawbacks, like inefficiency and ineffectiveness. Where's Henry J. Kaiser when we need him?
Kaiser couldn't get past either the graft or the nimbyism in today's political environment.
Speaking of Henry Kaiser, the Blueprint Vault posted a nice video just last week.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wsap4peVvPg
Thanks for the video. Love the comments about all the relatives that serviced in Kaiser yards or served on Kaiser-built ships.
What is the trick to getting that secnav link to load? I can't get it to load on either my laptop or phone.
Andy, look at above "Andy et all" reply.
I'll have the T-AGOS SURTASS as my main course and baklava for desert, please. Plus, a shot of Ouzo to finish off the meal. It's all Greek to me.