Reminiscent of "The Americans," on a much grander scale. How about we deport 1000 Chinese students at our Universities for each subversive Chinese National we catch violating our laws?
Anybody remember the old WWII SCOTUS case Korematsu v. United States, 323 U.S. 214 (1944)? It was about internment of American citizens of Japanese descent in camps in the western states.
It was supposedly overruled at long last by Trump v. Hawaii, 585 U.S. 667 (2018), the SCOTUS case on Trump's travel ban. The dispute was over whether his travel ban violated the Establishment Clause because of "anti-muslim bias." SCOTUS opined that it didn't. If Trump were to issue a travel ban of Chinese nationals, a challenge based on the Establishment Clause would be out (no religion involved, after all).
What I wonder is whether Trump might try building Korematsu-like camps as gathering points for deportations. SCOTUS hasn't said it's unconstitutional to round up & intern non-citizens based on race; it only said you can't round up & intern American citizens based on race.
CJ Roberts' majority opinion expressed a lot of deference to the Executive Branch on such issues.
I'd imagine Chinese operatives in the US could destroy much of Air Force on the ground with FPV drone attacks in the first hours of a war. Then they could surrender, knowing they would be treated with kid gloves.
Target bombers, ISR(RC-135, E-3, EA-37B), and tankers and we'd be in deep trouble. Maybe like 10-15 bases... One large moving van each filled with FPV drones and a couple of operators at night. <shudders>
The quickest/most widespread damage, that will catch everyone off guard, is contaminating the water supply!!!!!!!! And, the military bases DO NOT filter the water adequately!
One of my prior lives wrote scenarios for DoD, another life dealt with the details of "new" types of warfare (hybrid, total government approach, etc.) and how we would respond. So, imagine the worst, and how would you deal with the consequences. Bad at best, the worst is...well. Imagine being in Spain the other day, except it's the U.S., 75% of the grid is offline, and won't be restored for...two weeks. (Stavridis coauthored a book about that). Most (but not all) of those military age Chinese nationals came up through the Darien gap in South America, in what looks oddly like a very organized operation where the Chinese nationals were in professionally set up encampments with organized logistics and transportation...with luggage. Things that make you go "hm" indeed. The time window is on us now, I believe. Hope we can get through the next months and years without someone in Asia deciding that the time is "right now". We're going to that fight the way we are today (largely), as you can't overcome several decades of declining preparedness overnight.
The grid down for two weeks? A hundred or so well-placed riflemen could destroy difficult-to-obtain high voltage transformers and drop a significant portion of the nations grid.
Given that a significant portion of these transformers are customized and sourced from overseas, including the PRC, good luck recovering even small portions of the grid in a timely manner. Best time to do this would be during a long heat wave, where automatic protective trips would assist in dropping portions of the grid.
Akshually, I was putting a "best case" scenario forward...not joking. Ten sniper teams, mildly coordinated for maximum...coverage... could create chaos without ever shooting at transformers. Of course, if they did, um...
60 percent of the electrical grid disabled? It's a LOT more fragile than that. And, since TX has deliberately divorced itself from regional grids, it's not inconceivable that it's entire grid could be disabled by targeted attacks. Look at how much of its grid went down during severe weather events over the past several years.
The only solution is to boot out all Chinese. Then move on to the other ethnic groups that are more trouble than they are worth. Diversity is nothing but a weakness, and we need to stop letting Leftist shame tactics decide every aspect of our nations' policies.
Reports of of fit, military age men coming across the southern border have been posted for years. Shipments of infantry small arms have been seized a number of times coming into Kalifornia. Some have estimated there are over 200K Red Chinese troops already inside the US. I have no wat of corroborating that number, but even if it were as small as 50K, it would bring the US to its knees quite quickly. Going after aircraft would be a small start. I'd also go after the electrical grid and oil refineries.
It is interesting to note that the US is not found in bible prophecy.
True, but technically neither is China. We only guess that they're part of Gog and Magog. The same way some end times watchers (Which I'm still not convinced we're in them. Certain prophecies remain unfulfilled and can stay that way as far as I'm concerned.) think that America is the beast that rises from the land. I dunno.
As for what China has here for their military power, the question is how many will obey orders if the party collapses and begins fighting a civil war? That's the big wildcard. I suspect it may end up looking like the USSR in 1991 after Glasnost hollowed out the people's fear of reprisal.
Again, that is one interpretation. I don't know which to subscribe to myself. There's a lot of belief that it's correct, too.
I'm just pointing out that the understanding we choose sets a lot of things up for what we think. There is a school of belief that claims America is closely tied to the whore of Babylon and the beast that rises up from the earth. I'm not saying that's right, but for all we know it is. :shrug: We're all making choices regarding the meaning of all this.
But this is as far as I care to go with this. I've stated my thoughts, not interested in really debating them. I have more important things to go do.
A mere 5000 could do a lot of damage, but eventually would be run to ground and exterminated fairly quickly. 50,000 troops is another kettle of fish, and the truth, given the reports, is probably somewhere between the 200K some think, and 50K.
I'm presuming we've moved beyond the question of if and onto a discussion of what's possible in response and prep? We admitted in 10 to 20 million unvetted foreigners in the last 4 years. It's not a hard pull to imagine what is very likely to happen on D+0. And they will have much opportunity to study the problem.
The question of "If" is well into the rearview mirror at this point. The only serious questions now are when, and what targets. In the week following 9/11, I contacted the USCG about port and riverine traffic vulnerabilities, and all I essentially got back was "Have a seat. Don't worry. We're the professionals." I don't think anyone took my comments seriously as there was never any follow-up.
I don't tend to give much heed to those who speak as confidently as the person you spoke to in the CG. The one's I listened to are often far more circumspect and guarded in their assessments of things that are not fully "knowable." The absurdity of the person's response (especially a week after 9/11) is naked hubris.
If you think you know how soft a target our power grid is, you're only knowing a fraction of the truth. In this day and age, you'll learn the truth about a lot of people when the electricity goes out for a few months and you have to take care of yourself for extended periods.
America very possibly is about to be dropped into the crucible of empires and under extreme heat. It will be painful and destructive and culture changing. But it also burns out the garbage and impurities. The dross floats to the top and is skimmed off leaving a new clean alloy underneath. And that's what America is. An alloy of like-minded people who are about to be reminded of the necessity of a unified common culture of merit and opportunity. The "Great American Melting Pot" works if things are done under control. People brought in have time to acclimate and join into the culture, not form little enclaves and colonies of their old culture. Not demanding we change to how they used to do things in the country they fled. This is something that was deliberately broken in the 1960's and has run away from us over the decades, putting us in this situation where we have to scoop out what will not melt down and throw it back to the point of origin.
But the tariffs have worked. Forcing China to be the honest broker in global trade has revealed their entire economy is based on thievery, slavery and cheating at every term. They've never obeyed any compact, never made the required changes with the WTO. Any agreement was violated behind closed doors and used their massive gain in wealth to protect their corruption as they tried to become the economic "Middle Kingdom" as filtered through Maoism. This has pushed China and the ruling Han culture to the brink, and some watchers believe they've already tumbled over, and it's only the media blackout that is hiding the truth of what's going on.
Barring China's imminent collapse since the communist party has apparently lost the "Mandate of Heaven" in the eyes of the Chinese people. The worst is very probably going to happen to them, and if these sappers and saboteurs in America are there, we will follow suit in many ways. Both nations are going to be very different in 12 years with a clearer national cultural identity.
In the end, though it's hell to go through, it will potentially be a good thing if those who love the Constitution and believe in what it lays out for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness can remain in control.
The imminent collapse of China and the CCP has been predicted for more than twenty years. But it hasn't happened. Never say never, but the odds are that it won't happen.
The CCP and its senior leadership have the example of the collapse of the Soviet Union to draw upon in avoiding a similar fate for themselves and for China.
Gorbachev wasn't willing to kill millions to keep himself and the Soviet communist party in power. Xi Jinping and the those who control the centers of power inside the CCP have no such reservations.
True, but even there, there are limits to how much a cautionary tale can forestall if they keep making many of the same mistakes. Once they start the exterminations, (and from the recent purges in the party, it's already happening) the situation will spiral out of party control. The emperor can kill only so many for saying he has no clothes before it doesn't work anymore, and since the majority of Chinese are already have nothing to lose after Covidiocy and social credit scores have locked them out, so even death is a step up.
The USA is more fragile than the PRC right now. Look at the polling. Even taking into account a more controlled society, Chinese are more optimistic and approving of their system.
Allow me to point out that there hasn't been a trustworthy public opinion poll in China since Chiang Kai Shek. I wouldn't trust the Chinese party to tell me water was wet without seeing for myself. Same goes for almost all polls on America. They're opinion pushers, not opinion takers. Both nations are fragile. Agreed, but China's falling down that staircase while we're on our butt's sliding down slower than most everyone else. But I'm a hard cynic towards these soft statistic "sciences".
Most polling is narrative driven. I doubt very many of the published polls reflect any reasonable correlation with what the people actually believe, although they do serve their purpose in driving emotional responses.
If the electricity goes out for months, say four or more, there be 70% to 90% fewer of us to deal with the aftermath by the end, depending on the season of initiation.
Initiate subversive and guerilla activity to disrupt and distract, Launch ToT against all Military bases, hit power generation and seats of government. Pound any missile silos and launch sites with tactical nukes. Hit population centers with Chemical weapons.
When they literally OWN your previous President and Congressman and state officials are found regularly to have known or covert Chinese agents on their staffs why NO action gets taken answers itself. Occupied folks and turn coats dont usually turn on their occupiers...
Also consider what a few hundred motivated individuals could do in the breaking up of supply chains. For example, destruction of bridges, railroads, and deliberately grounding PRC-flagged vessels in ports (e.g., Long Beach, Oakland, Norfolk, etc.) or running said vessels into critical infrastructure, à la Baltimore.
Since it appears we will not be getting 60K+ new Chinese restaurants I expect D+0 and beyond to be pretty friggin ugly within our borders. I would expect energy, water and comms to go perhaps regionally first.
It is my hope that the public at large will act accordingly. First responders will not be coming to get you early on, if at all. They have families too.
We all know about the problem...but the lack of action at the national and local level is appalling. I would bet a dollar that the Chicoms are already working aggressively within CONUS in conjunction with the cartels and a laundry list of other undesirables I.E Persians et al...perhaps if I ignore my chest pains they will just go away too...
In the era we live in a even if we did have some type of a national CD drill, it would no doubt involve bearded men and soi boi's in dresses surrounded by their leftist admirers.
Reminiscent of "The Americans," on a much grander scale. How about we deport 1000 Chinese students at our Universities for each subversive Chinese National we catch violating our laws?
Do we need the predicate? Get the South Asians too, just in case.
Anybody remember the old WWII SCOTUS case Korematsu v. United States, 323 U.S. 214 (1944)? It was about internment of American citizens of Japanese descent in camps in the western states.
It was supposedly overruled at long last by Trump v. Hawaii, 585 U.S. 667 (2018), the SCOTUS case on Trump's travel ban. The dispute was over whether his travel ban violated the Establishment Clause because of "anti-muslim bias." SCOTUS opined that it didn't. If Trump were to issue a travel ban of Chinese nationals, a challenge based on the Establishment Clause would be out (no religion involved, after all).
What I wonder is whether Trump might try building Korematsu-like camps as gathering points for deportations. SCOTUS hasn't said it's unconstitutional to round up & intern non-citizens based on race; it only said you can't round up & intern American citizens based on race.
CJ Roberts' majority opinion expressed a lot of deference to the Executive Branch on such issues.
I'd imagine Chinese operatives in the US could destroy much of Air Force on the ground with FPV drone attacks in the first hours of a war. Then they could surrender, knowing they would be treated with kid gloves.
Why stop with just aircraft? The electrical grid and oil refineries are both out there and quite vulnerable.
A LOT of air transport is ANG; in regional and/or commercial airports. So they could ignore most of our combat aircraft, and still cripple us.
Target bombers, ISR(RC-135, E-3, EA-37B), and tankers and we'd be in deep trouble. Maybe like 10-15 bases... One large moving van each filled with FPV drones and a couple of operators at night. <shudders>
The quickest/most widespread damage, that will catch everyone off guard, is contaminating the water supply!!!!!!!! And, the military bases DO NOT filter the water adequately!
One of my prior lives wrote scenarios for DoD, another life dealt with the details of "new" types of warfare (hybrid, total government approach, etc.) and how we would respond. So, imagine the worst, and how would you deal with the consequences. Bad at best, the worst is...well. Imagine being in Spain the other day, except it's the U.S., 75% of the grid is offline, and won't be restored for...two weeks. (Stavridis coauthored a book about that). Most (but not all) of those military age Chinese nationals came up through the Darien gap in South America, in what looks oddly like a very organized operation where the Chinese nationals were in professionally set up encampments with organized logistics and transportation...with luggage. Things that make you go "hm" indeed. The time window is on us now, I believe. Hope we can get through the next months and years without someone in Asia deciding that the time is "right now". We're going to that fight the way we are today (largely), as you can't overcome several decades of declining preparedness overnight.
The grid down for two weeks? A hundred or so well-placed riflemen could destroy difficult-to-obtain high voltage transformers and drop a significant portion of the nations grid.
Given that a significant portion of these transformers are customized and sourced from overseas, including the PRC, good luck recovering even small portions of the grid in a timely manner. Best time to do this would be during a long heat wave, where automatic protective trips would assist in dropping portions of the grid.
https://nam.org/utilities-scramble-to-get-large-transformers-28018/
Akshually, I was putting a "best case" scenario forward...not joking. Ten sniper teams, mildly coordinated for maximum...coverage... could create chaos without ever shooting at transformers. Of course, if they did, um...
Yeah, that's why snipers are dreaded on battlefield—absolute chaos creators and morale destroyers.
yep. You'd really see this in the movie "Sailor of the King". 1953 perfect exampble!
60 percent of the electrical grid disabled? It's a LOT more fragile than that. And, since TX has deliberately divorced itself from regional grids, it's not inconceivable that it's entire grid could be disabled by targeted attacks. Look at how much of its grid went down during severe weather events over the past several years.
Is Texas's grid any more robust than Pain's?
Texas is the most likely place for a team of snipers to get pinched.
The only solution is to boot out all Chinese. Then move on to the other ethnic groups that are more trouble than they are worth. Diversity is nothing but a weakness, and we need to stop letting Leftist shame tactics decide every aspect of our nations' policies.
One has to wonder if hiding the fifth columnists wasn't the idea all along.
Just put them all behind the wheel of a car and send them out into rush hour traffic.
Oh Sal, you've been reading my stuff again!
https://armedforces.press/national-security-bidens-weaponized-migration-policy/
Reports of of fit, military age men coming across the southern border have been posted for years. Shipments of infantry small arms have been seized a number of times coming into Kalifornia. Some have estimated there are over 200K Red Chinese troops already inside the US. I have no wat of corroborating that number, but even if it were as small as 50K, it would bring the US to its knees quite quickly. Going after aircraft would be a small start. I'd also go after the electrical grid and oil refineries.
It is interesting to note that the US is not found in bible prophecy.
A little shovel work, a company of strong backs could disrupt the pipeline system. Less work and people required, and almost as long-lasting.
Add Tannerite and do a bang up job.
True, but technically neither is China. We only guess that they're part of Gog and Magog. The same way some end times watchers (Which I'm still not convinced we're in them. Certain prophecies remain unfulfilled and can stay that way as far as I'm concerned.) think that America is the beast that rises from the land. I dunno.
As for what China has here for their military power, the question is how many will obey orders if the party collapses and begins fighting a civil war? That's the big wildcard. I suspect it may end up looking like the USSR in 1991 after Glasnost hollowed out the people's fear of reprisal.
China is probably one of the "Kings of the east." The US is not intimated at all.
Again, that is one interpretation. I don't know which to subscribe to myself. There's a lot of belief that it's correct, too.
I'm just pointing out that the understanding we choose sets a lot of things up for what we think. There is a school of belief that claims America is closely tied to the whore of Babylon and the beast that rises up from the earth. I'm not saying that's right, but for all we know it is. :shrug: We're all making choices regarding the meaning of all this.
But this is as far as I care to go with this. I've stated my thoughts, not interested in really debating them. I have more important things to go do.
Given what scripture has to say, it is the only possibility.
50,000 GI would be an issue. 500 or god forbid 5000 SOF would be a serious problem.
The potential scenario is likely the latter.
A mere 5000 could do a lot of damage, but eventually would be run to ground and exterminated fairly quickly. 50,000 troops is another kettle of fish, and the truth, given the reports, is probably somewhere between the 200K some think, and 50K.
I'm presuming we've moved beyond the question of if and onto a discussion of what's possible in response and prep? We admitted in 10 to 20 million unvetted foreigners in the last 4 years. It's not a hard pull to imagine what is very likely to happen on D+0. And they will have much opportunity to study the problem.
The question of "If" is well into the rearview mirror at this point. The only serious questions now are when, and what targets. In the week following 9/11, I contacted the USCG about port and riverine traffic vulnerabilities, and all I essentially got back was "Have a seat. Don't worry. We're the professionals." I don't think anyone took my comments seriously as there was never any follow-up.
I don't tend to give much heed to those who speak as confidently as the person you spoke to in the CG. The one's I listened to are often far more circumspect and guarded in their assessments of things that are not fully "knowable." The absurdity of the person's response (especially a week after 9/11) is naked hubris.
Especially since at least one major vulnerability that is incredibly simple to exploit has yet to be touched.
"But the universities! But the businesses!"
"Yes, well, have your history department or any WW2 nerds tell you about the 'Comissar Order', I'll wait."
"Now, substitute NGO for Comissar, and that's what we're doing starting....now."
If you think you know how soft a target our power grid is, you're only knowing a fraction of the truth. In this day and age, you'll learn the truth about a lot of people when the electricity goes out for a few months and you have to take care of yourself for extended periods.
America very possibly is about to be dropped into the crucible of empires and under extreme heat. It will be painful and destructive and culture changing. But it also burns out the garbage and impurities. The dross floats to the top and is skimmed off leaving a new clean alloy underneath. And that's what America is. An alloy of like-minded people who are about to be reminded of the necessity of a unified common culture of merit and opportunity. The "Great American Melting Pot" works if things are done under control. People brought in have time to acclimate and join into the culture, not form little enclaves and colonies of their old culture. Not demanding we change to how they used to do things in the country they fled. This is something that was deliberately broken in the 1960's and has run away from us over the decades, putting us in this situation where we have to scoop out what will not melt down and throw it back to the point of origin.
But the tariffs have worked. Forcing China to be the honest broker in global trade has revealed their entire economy is based on thievery, slavery and cheating at every term. They've never obeyed any compact, never made the required changes with the WTO. Any agreement was violated behind closed doors and used their massive gain in wealth to protect their corruption as they tried to become the economic "Middle Kingdom" as filtered through Maoism. This has pushed China and the ruling Han culture to the brink, and some watchers believe they've already tumbled over, and it's only the media blackout that is hiding the truth of what's going on.
Barring China's imminent collapse since the communist party has apparently lost the "Mandate of Heaven" in the eyes of the Chinese people. The worst is very probably going to happen to them, and if these sappers and saboteurs in America are there, we will follow suit in many ways. Both nations are going to be very different in 12 years with a clearer national cultural identity.
In the end, though it's hell to go through, it will potentially be a good thing if those who love the Constitution and believe in what it lays out for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness can remain in control.
The imminent collapse of China and the CCP has been predicted for more than twenty years. But it hasn't happened. Never say never, but the odds are that it won't happen.
The CCP and its senior leadership have the example of the collapse of the Soviet Union to draw upon in avoiding a similar fate for themselves and for China.
Gorbachev wasn't willing to kill millions to keep himself and the Soviet communist party in power. Xi Jinping and the those who control the centers of power inside the CCP have no such reservations.
True, but even there, there are limits to how much a cautionary tale can forestall if they keep making many of the same mistakes. Once they start the exterminations, (and from the recent purges in the party, it's already happening) the situation will spiral out of party control. The emperor can kill only so many for saying he has no clothes before it doesn't work anymore, and since the majority of Chinese are already have nothing to lose after Covidiocy and social credit scores have locked them out, so even death is a step up.
The USA is more fragile than the PRC right now. Look at the polling. Even taking into account a more controlled society, Chinese are more optimistic and approving of their system.
Allow me to point out that there hasn't been a trustworthy public opinion poll in China since Chiang Kai Shek. I wouldn't trust the Chinese party to tell me water was wet without seeing for myself. Same goes for almost all polls on America. They're opinion pushers, not opinion takers. Both nations are fragile. Agreed, but China's falling down that staircase while we're on our butt's sliding down slower than most everyone else. But I'm a hard cynic towards these soft statistic "sciences".
Most polling is narrative driven. I doubt very many of the published polls reflect any reasonable correlation with what the people actually believe, although they do serve their purpose in driving emotional responses.
If the electricity goes out for months, say four or more, there be 70% to 90% fewer of us to deal with the aftermath by the end, depending on the season of initiation.
Initiate subversive and guerilla activity to disrupt and distract, Launch ToT against all Military bases, hit power generation and seats of government. Pound any missile silos and launch sites with tactical nukes. Hit population centers with Chemical weapons.
Nuke Hawaii flat along with Guam.
Sounds like that old TV series "Jericho" .
Great show, especially first season. Highly recommended; need to watch again when I get a chance.
When they literally OWN your previous President and Congressman and state officials are found regularly to have known or covert Chinese agents on their staffs why NO action gets taken answers itself. Occupied folks and turn coats dont usually turn on their occupiers...
Also consider what a few hundred motivated individuals could do in the breaking up of supply chains. For example, destruction of bridges, railroads, and deliberately grounding PRC-flagged vessels in ports (e.g., Long Beach, Oakland, Norfolk, etc.) or running said vessels into critical infrastructure, à la Baltimore.
Since it appears we will not be getting 60K+ new Chinese restaurants I expect D+0 and beyond to be pretty friggin ugly within our borders. I would expect energy, water and comms to go perhaps regionally first.
It is my hope that the public at large will act accordingly. First responders will not be coming to get you early on, if at all. They have families too.
We all know about the problem...but the lack of action at the national and local level is appalling. I would bet a dollar that the Chicoms are already working aggressively within CONUS in conjunction with the cartels and a laundry list of other undesirables I.E Persians et al...perhaps if I ignore my chest pains they will just go away too...
In the era we live in a even if we did have some type of a national CD drill, it would no doubt involve bearded men and soi boi's in dresses surrounded by their leftist admirers.