One of those awful moments where everyone old enough to remember can tell the story of exactly where they were when it happened. Opinion: Our initial response was good...perhaps very good. The decision to invade Iraq (which I supported at the time) and ensuing attempt to democratize 7th Century cultures is with hindsight the epitome of poor judgement...at least on its face. The "Blacklist" is one of my favorite TV series. James Spader as Reddington, the writing, twists, and "apparently" outrageous plotlines of corrupt businessman, politicians, scientists, government officials secretly acting in ways that were completely at odds with their publicly stated job portfolios. The show created a 007 type criminal network (SMERSH-like) that had all of the previously mentioned public / private officials at times collaborating for personal and SMERSH-like organizational gain. It was camp, it was (at times) funny, but the underlying theme was very dark, with a "you don't really know what's going on here" vibe. It was great escapism, and fun. Until you used that model to explain some of the real-world actor's actions on the world stage. But it was all in fun, and jest, right? Wasn't it? Right? Guys?
"ensuing attempt to democratize 7th Century cultures is with hindsight the epitome of poor judgement..." 1st world hubris. My more knowledgeable friends said kill their leadership and let the locals sort it afterwards.
Powell gave us "You broke it you bought it" which led to attempting nationbuilding in the graveyard of empires. Obama expanded the effort for a short while as a talking point (contrasting Iraq, the "war of choice," with Afghanstan, the "war of necessity") and then telegraphed that our commitment was finite. We would have been better off with a punitive raid. 20 years wasted in the Rockpile and we're still not out of the Sandbox. Our opponents now more geographically distributed (see: Sahel). Russia and Iran stirring the pot because they can.
What we forgot was who funded it (the Saudis) and who abetted it (the Pakistanis). Small wonder things have uncanny parallels to The Blacklist.
Not at all. The next move should have been to give the keys to the net guy in line and tell him don't make us come back. We could do that because we broke, it so it was ours to give away.
Ed: I'm also a native NYer, transplanted to LA in '95. I remember when the World Trade Center was constructed. Most of the area was landfill. Do you remember McSorley's Ale House?
Native NY as well who was in the area and remembers that day like it was yesterday. I don't know how one overreacts to a foreign terrorist organization killing 3,000 of your fellow citizens in heart of two of your largest cities but it seems that cynicism is the popular reaction today, even for the casus belli.
We had nukes,, we should have used them instantly, I know there were no targets in Afghanistan but frying what was there would have stopped this crap sooner.
Pete: Nor did history begin, then. The British attacked the revolting American colonists on New York's Staten Island (settled originally by the Dutch) in 1775 and invaded York Island, which is now Lower Manhattan, in 1776. Today's Greenwich Village was on the western fringe at the southern end of York Island. The future site of the World Trade Center was out in the Hudson River.
True. But I was referring to Fuluyama’s book The End of History. Democracy and capitalism had triumphed and there would be no more history. This was political gospel at the time. Too bad bin Laden didn’t read the book. Neither did Xi or Putin.
Instead history repeated itself. We ended up being just another mighty empire that conquered Afghanistan and Iraq and ended up leaving with a bloody nose. I blame Tony Blair for not telling Bush, Jr. that it’s easy to invade those places but not so easy to hold them.
I gladly (at the time) went and did my share, and supported our national response. But sadly I think the answer to the question, "what for?" appears to be profit.
I understood and still support the idea (if not the exact execution) of our first year in Afghanistan. And at the time I had a vain hope that the invasion of Iraq had a deeper purpose, specifically creating a strong American presence on both of Iran's "flanks".
But neither ended up being prosecuted and an effective manner.
At the end of the day, we simply seem to have been seeking profit.
When we're young, it's for Liberty, Queen and Country, Mom and Apple Pie.
I once tried to do something I expected to be special, and somebody very close to me did not approve. When I asked why he said "When you've done things you'll never justify and never accept and you find out you did it so somebody could set up their own drug dealership you'll understand"
How many GWOT vets look at their service with a sour taste? How many ask, "What was the point?" How many actively fight the recruiting as we watch Communists run for office, cheat, bring in illegals, follow Hugo Chavez's playbook, use the IC to go after Americans, have zero accountability at the FOGO ranks, and watch national treasure squandered and sent to China? How many got out vice getting poisoned as lab rats for DoD and Big Pharma? Many join for many reasons. Job, career, ideals, patriotism, and even boredom. We fight for the troop to the left and right of us. We are now entering an uncertain time where our hubris has out paced our capability and our enemies have closed the gap. Instead on doubling down on what made America great, we have doubled down on the enemy's governance doctrine. Why fight, indeed. Not for trannies, not for abortion, not for communism, and not to enrich China, Ukrainian 1%, and not to march head long into the WEF and globalist blob.
I'd like to believe those who do and (we who) will still do fight for the freedom and Liberty of our communities. For me it's got to be a lot more local than in the past (see my recent reply to Scott Chafian)
I missed Desert Storm, having been in Airborne and then Ranger School at the time (and soon thereafter). I was with JSOC on 9-11, and was a small part of the 2003 invasion of Iraq (we all thought that the Saddam regime had WMDs, and wore the MOPP-4 in 100+ degree heat to prove it). From my admittedly anecdotal experience with them, the IC was unprepared and did not know much. In their defense, there are usually two outcomes to military action: operational successes and intelligence failures. Having spent time on both sides of that fence, I prefer Ops. Radical Jihadis have been at war with their less fervent neighbors since the 630s, and with Western Civilization soon thereafter. We should express gratitude to Charles Martel, the Polish Winged Hussars, Stephen Decatur, Winston Churchill and John Pershing, among many others, who all fought the clash of civilizations long before we did. I think our vacillating in the 1990s (OPN Gothic Serpent's aftermath & the Haitian mobs on the docks chasing away one of ships from Port-au-Prince comes to mind) and the lack of response to Al Qaeda's USEMB attacks and the strike on the US Cole. My favorite commercial is the Ad Council's 31 second spot about "terrorists trying to change America..." it's hard to find these days, and it's unfortunate that we quickly spiraled into the divided Republic that we have become (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-BNO1jNnFY). Remember the Fallen, Honor those they left behind to mourn them, and heed Trotsky's warning about "war being interested in you."
Lots of heroes on 9-11, Chaplain Judge, the hundreds of Firemen (they were all men) who climbed up the stairs to their doom, the impromptu boat evac, flight 93....
Being an Army guy, I give you Rick Rescorla...
wiki version: "At 8:46 A.M. on the morning of September 11, 2001, American Airlines Flight 11 struck the North Tower of the World Trade Center (WTC 1).[20][21] Rescorla heard the explosion and saw the tower burning from his office window in the 44th floor of the South Tower (WTC 2). When a Port Authority announcement came over the P.A. system urging people to stay at their desks, and before United Airlines Flight 175 would strike the South Tower at 9:03 A.M.,[22] Rescorla ignored the announcement, grabbed his bullhorn, walkie-talkie and cell phone, and began systematically to order the roughly 2,700 Morgan Stanley employees in the South Tower to evacuate, in addition to the employees in WTC 5, numbering around 1,000. While watching the news coverage, in a phone call to his best friend, Dan Hill, Rescorla said, "The dumb sons of bitches told me not to evacuate," and, "They said it's just Building One. I told them I'm getting my people the fuck out of here."[4] He directed people down a stairwell from a bottleneck on the 44th floor, keeping people away from elevators while telling them to remain calm. After successfully evacuating almost all of Morgan Stanley's 2,700 employees, he went back into the building.[4][25][26] When one of his colleagues told him he too had to evacuate the World Trade Center, Rescorla replied, "As soon as I make sure everyone else is out."[27] He was last seen on the 10th floor of the South Tower, heading upward, shortly before its collapse at 9:59 A.M., 56 minutes after being struck by United Airlines Flight 175. A total of 13 Morgan Stanley employees died in the September 11 attacks,[28] including Rescorla, his deputies Wesley Mercer and Jorge Velazquez, and security guard Godwin Forde, who had collectively stayed behind to help others.
I'm not sure what we were killing for—revenge, profit, nation-building, a combination of these and more? However, what did die over the decades subsequent to the horrific events of 9/11/01 was the concept of American Exceptionalism.
We went into Afghanistan and kicked arse. But we didn't have a real plan for what to do after decimating AQ and the Taliban, so when the original objectives we accomplished the pols just rolled over into, "Let's keep doing the same thing, but make more money doing it!" Like Vietnam, militarily we were able to win any engagement that we had a clear objective identified, but no political vision for what to do after the battle. Politically connected companies made bank, but the soldiers paid the price, and with nothing gained in the end except some experience that the pols seem determined to throw away anyway.
I’m proud of my role as a division officer and combat watch stander during the days and weeks after the attack and then being the TAO on watch when launched our punitive strikes for 6 weeks before we headed home to Norfolk. We did our job, we made them pay for their transgression and we killed a lot of Taliban and Al Qaeda. We should have ended it there. Instead, well you know.
We did not pay attention to the Saudis taking flying lessons (not landing or take-off) pre-event. Our Government deliberately ensured that we did not and can not track terrorists and other enemies coming into America from our Open Borders. History will ask WTF?
Our Collective National Outrage at 9/11 lasted for about 6 days. There are still pockets, mostly from people personally affected, but not as a Nation. We have the memory of a goldfish.
From the official naval history and heritage command: just a taste of the first weeks. Don’t let anyone say Aircraft Carriers are obsolete or don’t have relevance.
“7 October
Enterprise (CVN-65) and Carl Vinson (CVN-70) launch 25 F-14 Tomcats and F/A-18C Hornets striking targets in Afghanistan in and around Kabul, Herat, Shindand, Shibarghan, Mazar-i-Sharif, and the southern Taliban stronghold of Kandahar with laser guided bombs, Joint Direct Attack Munitions, the AGM-84 Standoff Land Attack Missile–Extended Range, and the AGM-154 Joint Standoff Weapon. Strike aircraft are supported by accompanying F-14 and F/A-18 fighter sweeps and by electronic jamming of Taliban radar and communications transmissions by EA-6B Prowlers. Air operations are further supported by an elaborate inflight refueling scheme, with carrier-based S-3 tankers orbiting off the coast of Pakistan to top off inbound Navy strike aircraft just before the latter proceed to their holding stations over Afghanistan. Strike missions from Enterprise and Carl Vinson entail distances to target of 600 nautical miles or more, with an average sortie length of over four and a half hours and a minimum of two inflight refuelings each way.
9 October
Approximately 15 carrier-based Navy strike aircraft attack multiple targets in Afghanistan, including air defense sites and airfields at Herat and Kandahar, as well as a re-strike on a garrison near Mazar-i-Sharif. Fighter Squadron (VF) 14, from Carrier Air Wing 8 on board Enterprise (CVN-65), leads the first long-range tactical air strike, flying more than 1,700 nautical miles round trip to Mazar-i-Sharif, where two F-14B Tomcats destroy aircraft and troops transports on the ground. Royal Air Force (RAF) tanker aircraft provide aerial refuelling support to Navy aircraft, and RAF reconnaissance and surveillance aircraft fly operational sorties.
14 October
About 15 carrier-based Navy strike aircraft and 10 Air Force bombers attack targets near Kandahar, Kabul, and Jalalabad. Fighter Squadron (VF) 14 maximizes forward air control flexibility by configuring five F-14B Tomcats to carry four GBU-12 laser guided munitions each and configuring its remaining Tomcats for two GBU-16s. Royal Air Force tanker aircraft provide aerial refuelling support.
15 October
Theodore Roosevelt (CVN-71) arrives on station in the North Arabian Sea.
15 October
A force of 90 Navy strike fighters operating from three carriers—Enterprise (CVN-65), Carl Vinson (CVN-70), and Kitty Hawk (CV-63)—attack targets around Kabul and Kandahar. Royal Air Force (RAF) tanker aircraft provide aerial refuelling support, and RAF reconnaissance and surveillance aircraft fly operational sorties.
16 October
A force of 85 carrier-based strike fighters, operating in concert with five Air Force heavy bombers and several AC-130 Specter ground-attack gunships, attack targets around Kandahar and Kabul. F-14 Tomcats and F/A-18 Hornets use AGM-65 laser-guided Maverick missiles and BLU-109 earth-penetrator versions of the 2,000-pound Joint Direct Attack Munition against 12 enemy-occupied mountain cave complexes. Royal Air Force (RAF) tanker aircraft provide aerial refuelling support, and RAF reconnaissance and surveillance aircraft fly operational sorties.
19–21 October
Is In three consecutive days of Operation Enduring Freedom’s heaviest bombing to date, allied aircraft attack a dozen target sets, including Taliban airfields, antiaircraft artillery positions, armored vehicles, ammunition dumps, and al-Qaeda training camps. The attacks involve some 90 Navy and Marine Corps strike aircraft operating from the three air wings aboard Enterprise (CVN-65), Carl Vinson (CVN-70), and Theodore Roosevelt (CVN-71). Some targets in northern Afghanistan are 750 nautical miles from the carriers with sorties lasting as long as ten hours, often with multiple taskings. These missions make aviation history as the longest-range combat sorties ever flown by carrier-based aircraft.
So, if required to make similar strikes today, tell me how to do that with the fleet assets we have today. EA-6B- Maybe the Growlers can do that, if they have the legs to get there. F-14s- Long legs and long range missiles- replace today by???? S-3 tankers- buddy stores on a F/!-18 ain't even close. And, how many bird farms do we have in deployable status compared to then?
Nope, no can do. The mind is willing, but the hardware ain't there, and crew strength is marginal now too. Obama phones and free stuff won out over military spending, and the interest on the obscene $35 Trillion debt makes it impossible to afford necessities, let along improved military capability.
You’re not wrong. The holes in the current capability is known as you just pointed out.
We dither at our peril. We could get it done but we need a permissive environment for our refueling assets. Wish for longer legs on our Super Hornets. But we know what wishing does.
You ask, "what were we killing for"? Nearly 3,000 Americans were killed on our home soil twenty-three years ago today. We went to war to prevent that from happening again and to take out the terrorist organization that planned and executed that attack. As a high schooler from the NYC area, that's why I joined up. I get the cynicism about the misadventures and mistakes over the following two decades, but let's not pretend like we didn't have a reason to go to war or that some punitive raid would have sufficed to eliminate the threat. We owe the victims of that day at least that much.
At the Pentagon stands a large plaque that honors those who lost their lives and those who sacrifice so that "we may live in freedom." It says, "We will never forget." 23 years later this day is more painful than ever before. What freedom?! If I say what I want to about this day I will be stripped of my online free speech. My gooberment threatened my very livelihood unless I caved in to their forced medical experiment. (Thank you for the last minute save, SCOTUS).
I prayed in church last Sunday for the people in my father's office in the Navy Command Center who grew up without fathers and grandfathers, and who lost spouses that day. For me, personally, it was the day Papa Bravo began to die. In retrospect a healthy 66 year old who walked miles a day does not decline that quickly in half a year. But it took him 14 more years to die. Sad, painful years. He would not have understood a world 23 years later where the borders he defended against the intrusion of drugs and narcotics would have been left wide open for traffickers by the Commander in Chief and his whore sidekick Cackles. He would not have fathomed a military parade in 2024 in the streets of Kabul where the Taliban displayed $85 billion worth of new military equipment that same commander in chief and his feckless generals and defense personnel gifted to the Taliban. He would not have understood handing billions to Iran by our government to fund more terrorism. He would not have comprehended the wide open borders letting more terrorists enter our country unchecked and undocumented to do this all again while we stand in line in airports with our shoes in a plastic bin. He would have been heartbroken at what has happened to his beloved Navy.
In reality, no one remembered. No one in power cared. It was all for absolutely nothing. All the pain, all the maimings, all the death, all the waste. Damn those bastards who made me glad my father didn't live to see this. YOU MADE ME GLAD MY FATHER IS DEAD. Damn you to hell for that alone. That is all.
I understand what you are feeling and your description . My Dad survived the 67 Forestall Fire. He served for 23 more years and lived to be 77 but he died that day also.
I also understand. Life's vagaries gave me two "fathers" to some extent. One was a marine in Vietnam, wounded, air medal. The other was SAS, cold war, sacrificed a good deal of health and psyche to fight the Soviets.
Neither would have tolerated our current state, and our present has made me feel the same as you in that regard.
Semper Fi.
Who Dares Wins.
When it comes to that, what shall one do? Another forum perhaps, yet not one online.
It was strange, not quite Pearl Harbor, half the nation was angry, stunned and shocked, the other half said we deserved it and alkly ackbar, our glorious President Jug ears Junior declare islamophobia was the real enemy, and the Religion that killed our people was the "RELIGION OF PEACE" of all the dumbass things to say over the still burning bodies under the rumble. Then he started spying on Americans.
My son went to Afghanistan, then Iraq as did my nephews, my brothers sons. A Cousin was killed in iraq.
They came home and went back to civilian life.
Overall it would have saved lives if we had just surrendered sooner and not wasted 20
years.
I felt like I was watching Vietnam in April of 1975.
Hubris. The world remakes us, not the other way around.
One of those awful moments where everyone old enough to remember can tell the story of exactly where they were when it happened. Opinion: Our initial response was good...perhaps very good. The decision to invade Iraq (which I supported at the time) and ensuing attempt to democratize 7th Century cultures is with hindsight the epitome of poor judgement...at least on its face. The "Blacklist" is one of my favorite TV series. James Spader as Reddington, the writing, twists, and "apparently" outrageous plotlines of corrupt businessman, politicians, scientists, government officials secretly acting in ways that were completely at odds with their publicly stated job portfolios. The show created a 007 type criminal network (SMERSH-like) that had all of the previously mentioned public / private officials at times collaborating for personal and SMERSH-like organizational gain. It was camp, it was (at times) funny, but the underlying theme was very dark, with a "you don't really know what's going on here" vibe. It was great escapism, and fun. Until you used that model to explain some of the real-world actor's actions on the world stage. But it was all in fun, and jest, right? Wasn't it? Right? Guys?
"ensuing attempt to democratize 7th Century cultures is with hindsight the epitome of poor judgement..." 1st world hubris. My more knowledgeable friends said kill their leadership and let the locals sort it afterwards.
Powell gave us "You broke it you bought it" which led to attempting nationbuilding in the graveyard of empires. Obama expanded the effort for a short while as a talking point (contrasting Iraq, the "war of choice," with Afghanstan, the "war of necessity") and then telegraphed that our commitment was finite. We would have been better off with a punitive raid. 20 years wasted in the Rockpile and we're still not out of the Sandbox. Our opponents now more geographically distributed (see: Sahel). Russia and Iran stirring the pot because they can.
What we forgot was who funded it (the Saudis) and who abetted it (the Pakistanis). Small wonder things have uncanny parallels to The Blacklist.
I believed and defended "You broke it; you bought it" at the time.
Stupid, stupid youth.
Not at all. The next move should have been to give the keys to the net guy in line and tell him don't make us come back. We could do that because we broke, it so it was ours to give away.
Yep. My opinion was always, Kill Saddam and hand the keys to the next guy in line with the statement, "Don't make us come back," and leave.
Native of NYC. Have not lived there in years.
It is personal, still.
We did over react!
Ed: I'm also a native NYer, transplanted to LA in '95. I remember when the World Trade Center was constructed. Most of the area was landfill. Do you remember McSorley's Ale House?
I got out of NY to the Island when I was 10. 1960. My brothers and nephews are NY people. I am sure some of my kin know the place.
One nephew was in HS when 9/11 hit, one of his friends' Dad was a firefighter killed at the Towers.
Being a kid in NY was amazing!
"Over react"?
Native NY as well who was in the area and remembers that day like it was yesterday. I don't know how one overreacts to a foreign terrorist organization killing 3,000 of your fellow citizens in heart of two of your largest cities but it seems that cynicism is the popular reaction today, even for the casus belli.
We had nukes,, we should have used them instantly, I know there were no targets in Afghanistan but frying what was there would have stopped this crap sooner.
What kind of nonsense is that? Nuking Afghanistan when we were attacked by Saudi Arabia makes no sense.
Can't do that, Bush Sr and Jr. were on Saudi payrolls.
Remember "Islam is the Religion of Peace" © Bush speech?
It would have been a good show of what can be done and target taliban, al querdoo and the rest.
I don't know that we "over" reacted, but in hindsight, we "wrong" reacted in many regards.
History did not end in 1991.
Pete: Nor did history begin, then. The British attacked the revolting American colonists on New York's Staten Island (settled originally by the Dutch) in 1775 and invaded York Island, which is now Lower Manhattan, in 1776. Today's Greenwich Village was on the western fringe at the southern end of York Island. The future site of the World Trade Center was out in the Hudson River.
Good thing we had those dramatically falling sea levels in the couple hundred years before the Industrial Revolution cooked off! /sarc
True. But I was referring to Fuluyama’s book The End of History. Democracy and capitalism had triumphed and there would be no more history. This was political gospel at the time. Too bad bin Laden didn’t read the book. Neither did Xi or Putin.
Instead history repeated itself. We ended up being just another mighty empire that conquered Afghanistan and Iraq and ended up leaving with a bloody nose. I blame Tony Blair for not telling Bush, Jr. that it’s easy to invade those places but not so easy to hold them.
At least we haven’t done something really stupid like invade Russia. Oh wait…..
Blair!? Ask Disraeli & Gladstone instead.
Tony was another WEF stooge.
Pete: Fukuyama was right about everything, except for the part between the front and back covers.
It’s amazing how many smart people were taken in by him.
"not sure what we were killing for, in the end"
I gladly (at the time) went and did my share, and supported our national response. But sadly I think the answer to the question, "what for?" appears to be profit.
I understood and still support the idea (if not the exact execution) of our first year in Afghanistan. And at the time I had a vain hope that the invasion of Iraq had a deeper purpose, specifically creating a strong American presence on both of Iran's "flanks".
But neither ended up being prosecuted and an effective manner.
At the end of the day, we simply seem to have been seeking profit.
We should have learned from the Victorian Brits. "Butcher and Bolt"
"What for?"
When we're young, it's for Liberty, Queen and Country, Mom and Apple Pie.
I once tried to do something I expected to be special, and somebody very close to me did not approve. When I asked why he said "When you've done things you'll never justify and never accept and you find out you did it so somebody could set up their own drug dealership you'll understand"
Food for thought as I jump into my 60s.
How many GWOT vets look at their service with a sour taste? How many ask, "What was the point?" How many actively fight the recruiting as we watch Communists run for office, cheat, bring in illegals, follow Hugo Chavez's playbook, use the IC to go after Americans, have zero accountability at the FOGO ranks, and watch national treasure squandered and sent to China? How many got out vice getting poisoned as lab rats for DoD and Big Pharma? Many join for many reasons. Job, career, ideals, patriotism, and even boredom. We fight for the troop to the left and right of us. We are now entering an uncertain time where our hubris has out paced our capability and our enemies have closed the gap. Instead on doubling down on what made America great, we have doubled down on the enemy's governance doctrine. Why fight, indeed. Not for trannies, not for abortion, not for communism, and not to enrich China, Ukrainian 1%, and not to march head long into the WEF and globalist blob.
I'd like to believe those who do and (we who) will still do fight for the freedom and Liberty of our communities. For me it's got to be a lot more local than in the past (see my recent reply to Scott Chafian)
I missed Desert Storm, having been in Airborne and then Ranger School at the time (and soon thereafter). I was with JSOC on 9-11, and was a small part of the 2003 invasion of Iraq (we all thought that the Saddam regime had WMDs, and wore the MOPP-4 in 100+ degree heat to prove it). From my admittedly anecdotal experience with them, the IC was unprepared and did not know much. In their defense, there are usually two outcomes to military action: operational successes and intelligence failures. Having spent time on both sides of that fence, I prefer Ops. Radical Jihadis have been at war with their less fervent neighbors since the 630s, and with Western Civilization soon thereafter. We should express gratitude to Charles Martel, the Polish Winged Hussars, Stephen Decatur, Winston Churchill and John Pershing, among many others, who all fought the clash of civilizations long before we did. I think our vacillating in the 1990s (OPN Gothic Serpent's aftermath & the Haitian mobs on the docks chasing away one of ships from Port-au-Prince comes to mind) and the lack of response to Al Qaeda's USEMB attacks and the strike on the US Cole. My favorite commercial is the Ad Council's 31 second spot about "terrorists trying to change America..." it's hard to find these days, and it's unfortunate that we quickly spiraled into the divided Republic that we have become (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-BNO1jNnFY). Remember the Fallen, Honor those they left behind to mourn them, and heed Trotsky's warning about "war being interested in you."
Skanderbeg begs recognition:)
Lots of heroes on 9-11, Chaplain Judge, the hundreds of Firemen (they were all men) who climbed up the stairs to their doom, the impromptu boat evac, flight 93....
Being an Army guy, I give you Rick Rescorla...
wiki version: "At 8:46 A.M. on the morning of September 11, 2001, American Airlines Flight 11 struck the North Tower of the World Trade Center (WTC 1).[20][21] Rescorla heard the explosion and saw the tower burning from his office window in the 44th floor of the South Tower (WTC 2). When a Port Authority announcement came over the P.A. system urging people to stay at their desks, and before United Airlines Flight 175 would strike the South Tower at 9:03 A.M.,[22] Rescorla ignored the announcement, grabbed his bullhorn, walkie-talkie and cell phone, and began systematically to order the roughly 2,700 Morgan Stanley employees in the South Tower to evacuate, in addition to the employees in WTC 5, numbering around 1,000. While watching the news coverage, in a phone call to his best friend, Dan Hill, Rescorla said, "The dumb sons of bitches told me not to evacuate," and, "They said it's just Building One. I told them I'm getting my people the fuck out of here."[4] He directed people down a stairwell from a bottleneck on the 44th floor, keeping people away from elevators while telling them to remain calm. After successfully evacuating almost all of Morgan Stanley's 2,700 employees, he went back into the building.[4][25][26] When one of his colleagues told him he too had to evacuate the World Trade Center, Rescorla replied, "As soon as I make sure everyone else is out."[27] He was last seen on the 10th floor of the South Tower, heading upward, shortly before its collapse at 9:59 A.M., 56 minutes after being struck by United Airlines Flight 175. A total of 13 Morgan Stanley employees died in the September 11 attacks,[28] including Rescorla, his deputies Wesley Mercer and Jorge Velazquez, and security guard Godwin Forde, who had collectively stayed behind to help others.
https://youtu.be/mB4P_nNT6uA
Absent Friends!
https://www.badassoftheweek.com/rescorla
https://x.com/9mm_smg/status/1833862822297514241
I'm not sure what we were killing for—revenge, profit, nation-building, a combination of these and more? However, what did die over the decades subsequent to the horrific events of 9/11/01 was the concept of American Exceptionalism.
Disagree. The concept of American Exceptionalism can no more die than the Socratic method. It can be lost and betrayed, however.
We went into Afghanistan and kicked arse. But we didn't have a real plan for what to do after decimating AQ and the Taliban, so when the original objectives we accomplished the pols just rolled over into, "Let's keep doing the same thing, but make more money doing it!" Like Vietnam, militarily we were able to win any engagement that we had a clear objective identified, but no political vision for what to do after the battle. Politically connected companies made bank, but the soldiers paid the price, and with nothing gained in the end except some experience that the pols seem determined to throw away anyway.
"but no political vision for what to do after the battle. "
Clausewitz had something to say about that. Too bad they don't teach him in the various schools we send our ossifers to.
I’m proud of my role as a division officer and combat watch stander during the days and weeks after the attack and then being the TAO on watch when launched our punitive strikes for 6 weeks before we headed home to Norfolk. We did our job, we made them pay for their transgression and we killed a lot of Taliban and Al Qaeda. We should have ended it there. Instead, well you know.
New World Order stuff
As well you should be.
I still cannot watch anything related to the attack without getting angry. And today we have people saying it's time to move on.
We did not pay attention to the Saudis taking flying lessons (not landing or take-off) pre-event. Our Government deliberately ensured that we did not and can not track terrorists and other enemies coming into America from our Open Borders. History will ask WTF?
We don't pay attention to single, military aged males from countries that hate us illegally entering our country, either.
"All enemies, foreign or domestic..."
Our Collective National Outrage at 9/11 lasted for about 6 days. There are still pockets, mostly from people personally affected, but not as a Nation. We have the memory of a goldfish.
Concur.
Yet the targets of my anger have multiplied over the years.
From the official naval history and heritage command: just a taste of the first weeks. Don’t let anyone say Aircraft Carriers are obsolete or don’t have relevance.
“7 October
Enterprise (CVN-65) and Carl Vinson (CVN-70) launch 25 F-14 Tomcats and F/A-18C Hornets striking targets in Afghanistan in and around Kabul, Herat, Shindand, Shibarghan, Mazar-i-Sharif, and the southern Taliban stronghold of Kandahar with laser guided bombs, Joint Direct Attack Munitions, the AGM-84 Standoff Land Attack Missile–Extended Range, and the AGM-154 Joint Standoff Weapon. Strike aircraft are supported by accompanying F-14 and F/A-18 fighter sweeps and by electronic jamming of Taliban radar and communications transmissions by EA-6B Prowlers. Air operations are further supported by an elaborate inflight refueling scheme, with carrier-based S-3 tankers orbiting off the coast of Pakistan to top off inbound Navy strike aircraft just before the latter proceed to their holding stations over Afghanistan. Strike missions from Enterprise and Carl Vinson entail distances to target of 600 nautical miles or more, with an average sortie length of over four and a half hours and a minimum of two inflight refuelings each way.
9 October
Approximately 15 carrier-based Navy strike aircraft attack multiple targets in Afghanistan, including air defense sites and airfields at Herat and Kandahar, as well as a re-strike on a garrison near Mazar-i-Sharif. Fighter Squadron (VF) 14, from Carrier Air Wing 8 on board Enterprise (CVN-65), leads the first long-range tactical air strike, flying more than 1,700 nautical miles round trip to Mazar-i-Sharif, where two F-14B Tomcats destroy aircraft and troops transports on the ground. Royal Air Force (RAF) tanker aircraft provide aerial refuelling support to Navy aircraft, and RAF reconnaissance and surveillance aircraft fly operational sorties.
14 October
About 15 carrier-based Navy strike aircraft and 10 Air Force bombers attack targets near Kandahar, Kabul, and Jalalabad. Fighter Squadron (VF) 14 maximizes forward air control flexibility by configuring five F-14B Tomcats to carry four GBU-12 laser guided munitions each and configuring its remaining Tomcats for two GBU-16s. Royal Air Force tanker aircraft provide aerial refuelling support.
15 October
Theodore Roosevelt (CVN-71) arrives on station in the North Arabian Sea.
15 October
A force of 90 Navy strike fighters operating from three carriers—Enterprise (CVN-65), Carl Vinson (CVN-70), and Kitty Hawk (CV-63)—attack targets around Kabul and Kandahar. Royal Air Force (RAF) tanker aircraft provide aerial refuelling support, and RAF reconnaissance and surveillance aircraft fly operational sorties.
16 October
A force of 85 carrier-based strike fighters, operating in concert with five Air Force heavy bombers and several AC-130 Specter ground-attack gunships, attack targets around Kandahar and Kabul. F-14 Tomcats and F/A-18 Hornets use AGM-65 laser-guided Maverick missiles and BLU-109 earth-penetrator versions of the 2,000-pound Joint Direct Attack Munition against 12 enemy-occupied mountain cave complexes. Royal Air Force (RAF) tanker aircraft provide aerial refuelling support, and RAF reconnaissance and surveillance aircraft fly operational sorties.
19–21 October
Is In three consecutive days of Operation Enduring Freedom’s heaviest bombing to date, allied aircraft attack a dozen target sets, including Taliban airfields, antiaircraft artillery positions, armored vehicles, ammunition dumps, and al-Qaeda training camps. The attacks involve some 90 Navy and Marine Corps strike aircraft operating from the three air wings aboard Enterprise (CVN-65), Carl Vinson (CVN-70), and Theodore Roosevelt (CVN-71). Some targets in northern Afghanistan are 750 nautical miles from the carriers with sorties lasting as long as ten hours, often with multiple taskings. These missions make aviation history as the longest-range combat sorties ever flown by carrier-based aircraft.
Nice, but it was boots on the ground that drove the Taliban out of Kabul.
It always takes boots on the ground. Other efforts are appreciated though.
Wouldn’t have been boots on the ground if not for Naval Tactical Air.
So, if required to make similar strikes today, tell me how to do that with the fleet assets we have today. EA-6B- Maybe the Growlers can do that, if they have the legs to get there. F-14s- Long legs and long range missiles- replace today by???? S-3 tankers- buddy stores on a F/!-18 ain't even close. And, how many bird farms do we have in deployable status compared to then?
Nope, no can do. The mind is willing, but the hardware ain't there, and crew strength is marginal now too. Obama phones and free stuff won out over military spending, and the interest on the obscene $35 Trillion debt makes it impossible to afford necessities, let along improved military capability.
You’re not wrong. The holes in the current capability is known as you just pointed out.
We dither at our peril. We could get it done but we need a permissive environment for our refueling assets. Wish for longer legs on our Super Hornets. But we know what wishing does.
You ask, "what were we killing for"? Nearly 3,000 Americans were killed on our home soil twenty-three years ago today. We went to war to prevent that from happening again and to take out the terrorist organization that planned and executed that attack. As a high schooler from the NYC area, that's why I joined up. I get the cynicism about the misadventures and mistakes over the following two decades, but let's not pretend like we didn't have a reason to go to war or that some punitive raid would have sufficed to eliminate the threat. We owe the victims of that day at least that much.
At the Pentagon stands a large plaque that honors those who lost their lives and those who sacrifice so that "we may live in freedom." It says, "We will never forget." 23 years later this day is more painful than ever before. What freedom?! If I say what I want to about this day I will be stripped of my online free speech. My gooberment threatened my very livelihood unless I caved in to their forced medical experiment. (Thank you for the last minute save, SCOTUS).
I prayed in church last Sunday for the people in my father's office in the Navy Command Center who grew up without fathers and grandfathers, and who lost spouses that day. For me, personally, it was the day Papa Bravo began to die. In retrospect a healthy 66 year old who walked miles a day does not decline that quickly in half a year. But it took him 14 more years to die. Sad, painful years. He would not have understood a world 23 years later where the borders he defended against the intrusion of drugs and narcotics would have been left wide open for traffickers by the Commander in Chief and his whore sidekick Cackles. He would not have fathomed a military parade in 2024 in the streets of Kabul where the Taliban displayed $85 billion worth of new military equipment that same commander in chief and his feckless generals and defense personnel gifted to the Taliban. He would not have understood handing billions to Iran by our government to fund more terrorism. He would not have comprehended the wide open borders letting more terrorists enter our country unchecked and undocumented to do this all again while we stand in line in airports with our shoes in a plastic bin. He would have been heartbroken at what has happened to his beloved Navy.
In reality, no one remembered. No one in power cared. It was all for absolutely nothing. All the pain, all the maimings, all the death, all the waste. Damn those bastards who made me glad my father didn't live to see this. YOU MADE ME GLAD MY FATHER IS DEAD. Damn you to hell for that alone. That is all.
I understand what you are feeling and your description . My Dad survived the 67 Forestall Fire. He served for 23 more years and lived to be 77 but he died that day also.
I also understand. Life's vagaries gave me two "fathers" to some extent. One was a marine in Vietnam, wounded, air medal. The other was SAS, cold war, sacrificed a good deal of health and psyche to fight the Soviets.
Neither would have tolerated our current state, and our present has made me feel the same as you in that regard.
Semper Fi.
Who Dares Wins.
When it comes to that, what shall one do? Another forum perhaps, yet not one online.
It was strange, not quite Pearl Harbor, half the nation was angry, stunned and shocked, the other half said we deserved it and alkly ackbar, our glorious President Jug ears Junior declare islamophobia was the real enemy, and the Religion that killed our people was the "RELIGION OF PEACE" of all the dumbass things to say over the still burning bodies under the rumble. Then he started spying on Americans.
My son went to Afghanistan, then Iraq as did my nephews, my brothers sons. A Cousin was killed in iraq.
They came home and went back to civilian life.
Overall it would have saved lives if we had just surrendered sooner and not wasted 20
years.
I felt like I was watching Vietnam in April of 1975.
Yes, 1975...Operation Frequent Wind. Still have a sour taste. Was on an FF escorting the remainder of the SVN Navy to the Philippines. Sad sight.
Congress and the hippies helped win the Vietnam war for Vietnam.
I watched from my Parents living room while visiting, Dad was able to say let it fall it never should have been started.
I agreed, if they were not going fo4r a win, it was just a waste of lives.
Let’s not forget Uncle Walter Kronkite who told us we lost Tet despite the wipeout of the Viet Cong.
Komrade Kronkite. Helping us snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
Peace to these fanatics means submission not an end of hostilities.