42 is not going to work. We need bolder thinking. The net needs to be cast wider...say size 46, or more. If that doesn't work, then make the 42 figure for %BF.
DoD medical ready? Former SOCKOR general just had a heart attack and died, CMC has been hospitalized with a heart attack. We have damaged untold hearts in our population with that crap they forced on the population. We cannot recruit because there is a total lack of trust and confidence in leaders who are all too willing to sell their troops down the line for a promotion. I am shocked they have to reduce standards. SHOCKED I SAY!
Generals having heart attacks is not uncommon. Chappy James took over ADC/NORAD, was medically retired a month later and two (?) months later was dead. Up until retirement he was on flight status.
It happens, but then again, the kids, athletes, young men, etc. ramping or boosted numbers is questionable. Additionally, with nobody willing to actually research why, and when DoD changes the database when a whistle blower leaks the numbers, they show a total lack of transparency. Did you catch the story about the dude having a heart attack in the helo? He died and was resuscitated.
In case you're wondering, there are usually drops in deaths after a pandemic as it culls the weak and sickly. There are not usually rises in deaths. YMMV.
True. My son was passed on for USNA after summer seminar in favor of two females and an Asian American. 3 white kids in his grouping passed on. Very, very late he was offered 4 year nrotc ride so he decides to try it. Disliked being trained by disgruntled middies, 2nd class, angry staff, and usual tough guy nonsense. Passed and we advocated going to the5 day indoc and found the USMC dominated environment so toxic he could not stand the idea of staying. Passed and immediately dor’s the next morning and is attending a public ivy I wisely kept open as an option. Don’t blame him.
It was an amazing organization and experience. It felt like we were the heirs of the WWII greatness that prevailed. Bet you never hear today a JO say to another “I’d do this for free.”
Jesus! I went in at 17 and it almost killed me LOL
I guess the remarks of the Generation that is in danger of being drafted hit home.
None of my Grandson's friends will go if drafted, heck the oldest knows how Carter pardoned all 2000 draft dodgers at the end of the war, and me and his other Paw Paw told him how we were treated as veterans.
The Navy previously increased enlistment age up to 42. The services are struggling with recruiting and the outlook is only grim. Retention becoming worrisome. https://markhyman.substack.com/p/unwilling-to-serve
The recruitment crisis is a by-product of a country that approached military conflicts like they were engaged in a whack-a-mole marathon. Young men and women grew up in families who were a witness to the catastrophic physical and mental toll exacted upon family members who served in combat. Others who have seen/read/heard the devastation that's been unleashed on young vets returning from Iraq and Afghanistan. And noticing how the grand schemes of the wizards of smart, who thought they could re-write the landscape of the Middle East in western norms, were found to be flippin clueless but... they didn't seem to pay the price that grunts on the ground paid. So why would any 18 to 24 year today see military service as a worthy pursuit when they see what passes for military leadership in this country over the last 2 decades. So let's just see how eager young men and women are to sign up for service when the conversation gets around to Taiwan?
I was fine with the larger goal of altering Iraqi society. Sometimes, ideological war is just a matter of persistence. You can survive bad strategy if you have the persistence of will.
Poor middle management and morons in the general officer ranks was demoralizing. Seeing rampant double standards in discipline just made the whole thing meaningless. Senior leadership matters and major chunks of the military have terrible senior leaders.
I'm not a fan of the lofty aspirations and designs of those who want to re-craft other societies and who have a vague and shallow grasp of the intricacies of different societies; especially those societies whose customs and traditions bare little resemblance to that of our own. The breathtaking arrogance of "those who know things" (TM) who presumed to think they could refashion entire cultures in a span of time that fit our historically short attention span. Neglecting to account for the near certainty that any such investment would likely have to occur over successive generations to produce any lasting change. One might imagine that there would be constituents in said countries who might take some umbrage with outsiders messing with their home turf. So how many senior and field grade officers did we cycle in theatre over those 20 years? For 2 decades, we sought to press our will on Afghanistan, spending trillions, only to see the entire thing collapse in a matter of months. And then only to be told later that by the experts that they had "no regrets" on how the withdrawal from Afghanistan unfolded... but the rest of the world saw things in an entirely different light.
So now that SecNav hasw come out with his "strategic guidance on the long-term transformation and modernization of the service branch" that puts great emphasis on climate change, what a great opportunity to open up opportunities for more individuals to serve in the future "climate corps" formerly known as active duty military. Think about the opportunity to waive all those PT reqs because they are no longer relevant when it comes to "combatting" THE GREATEST threat we face. That way existing active duty ranks can serve as the eventual sponges they will become when the PRC unleashes its military. Just so long as the ranks of the climate corps are preserved so they can be about their yeoman's work.
First time I heard the military was worried about "climate change" I was sure it was a joke. Then I read their briefs and it was how "climate change" was going to alter behaviours and increase the likelihood of wars in various areas. So, day ending in "y" then? They've since completely lost their minds over this fecal matter.
Maybe some have lost their minds, Kamas, but I think it isn't more than half. I hate to think so but I believe that many are just embracing the party line grift as a practical matter to get that O-So-Vital up-check on their promotion viability check list. That scares me more than lost minds or stupidity. I have only good memories of the Golden Age during which I served to sustain me now. Otherwise, I might ask for Thorazine.
Realistically, during exercise people tend to breathe heavier and put more carbon into the atmosphere, so it should be illegal except for essential workers.
Never forget, WE are the carbon they want to descrease.
I take Metformin and eat lots of kimchi and Mexican food. If I volunteered to switch to Insulin and cut out the Mexican & Korean staples I could offset maybe a roomful of gym rats bench pressing truck axles and save lots of active duty guys from having to buy carbon offsets. It's a sacrifice I am willing to make. Still loyal to the oath as many others here are.
I joined the Navy Reserve directly through the APG program at age 35. Most people in the APG group at boot camp were in late 20s, and even that was a shambles. Given the way medical/PFA is these days, it's like whiplash as age/lack of fitness makes it exponentially worse -- people are gonna cork a gasket going down a ladder at this rate.
I used to run up and down ladders just like 90% of the shipmates I served with did until I hit around the 18 year point at 35. The laggards had further problems squeezing though scuttles after Condition Zebra was set. Age is a killer. That is a known fact. I don''t know many 42 year old people who are fit enough to join, either PT or girth-wise. And certainly a guy who joins at 42 is going to have a hard time at age 57 to pass a PRT or re-enlistment physical. They'll need waivers, and a two tiered fitness standard. Wouldn't surprise me if the Services cashiered those 57 year olds at the 15 year point to save paying out retirements. Nah, this tweaking of the age limit isn't going to fix the problem. They just need to make it a rewarding, exciting, challenging, fun job with good pay. They don't know how because that corporate knowledge is gone.
Makes me wonder if someone out there has been thinking about how to slowly open the door to bring in civilians who are farther along in their technical careers and bring certain skills/expertise to bear.
They used to with the DPPO. Had a friend who was a steelworker in Boston who joined at age 26 as an SW1 toward the end of the Vietnam War. After 4 promotions he retired a CWO4 after 30 years.
As someone who fired TRICARE in favor of the VA, I suspect that except at maybe Balboa in San Diego, Brooke in San Antonio, and Walter-Reed Bethesda, where there are very large retiree populations, no, they aren't. I know experience with VA varies wildly region-to-region, but here in Eastern Kansas they went after my problems not symptoms, and fixed me in two years so that I was mobile again and subsequently able to lose 130 lbs and dropping. But I'm left with the residual kidney and liver damage (which I get paid for).
The paradigm between the systems is different. DoD health care sees mostly male, 18-27 relatively healthy folk presenting with standard acute illnesses and sometimes severe trauma. It is designed to get the troop back to duty as quickly as possible, giving them an incentive to use the famous "Take two 800mg motrin, stay hydrated and change your socks" meme. Because the resultant liver, kidney, and joint issues... are going to be passed to VA.
1. The Armed Forces can recruit illegal aliens to fill the ranks. This did wonders for ancient Rome.
or
2. The US can change the purpose of the armed forces from being the policeman of the world to just protecting the homeland. Imagine if we brought home all the troops stationed overseas. Imagine if we ceased to interfere in the internal affairs of other countries no matter how awful they are. We could even pare back the size of the armed forces!
Are you mad?! How are we to keep Raytheon, GD, et al... in-business and our precious politicos getting their oh so sweet kickbacks? Damned insensitive of you to even suggest #2.
"A new report shows that almost 70% of U.S. military troops are overweight or obese, prompting long-term concerns about national security and military readiness.
According to a new study conducted by the American Security Project, a nonprofit organization based in Washington, 68% of active duty troops in the U.S. military are considered overweight or obese based on the body mass index method of classification determined by a person’s weight and height."
But to state so in public is - take your pick - racist, sexist, homophobic, misogynistic, fatphobic, and a plethora of others. So why not add gerontophobic to the list.
That annual EKG is gonna have some interesting stats.
This sounds like BS. From my background as a personal trainer (American College of Sports Medicine) BMI is a nearly useless metric for determining obesity.
Sure, there are tons of professional and amateur athletes who are considered obese or overweight if one uses the BMI numbers. But the other 99% of those considered obese or overweight are just fatties.
Last time I bought uniforms was around 1988. I was 40. Had plenty that fit just fine but always had an eye out for spare size 36" waists or to stockpile for size 38 should the day come. It was rare to see anything above size 36 in the NEX or Small Stores locally. A Senior Chief friend of mine on staff duty who did lots of travel to DC for conferences once called me. "Hey Dale....you won't believe this s__t. The NEX here in DC has up to 44 pants...khaki, blues, whites. You want me to buy you some?" I declined as my BMI was a constant 21.99% because of self-imposed PT, and fasting 30 days before PTR.
I can see a few upsides to a few older junior ranks. However.......perhaps the Navy should have considered offering extremely generous bonuses to SelRes and brought them into the fleet without the accession costs and time associated with new recruits. Nevermind they'd most likely already be in better shape than the average civilian of that age.
Very interesting😏 I thought when I first saw the change it referred not to age but to waistline.
Dude, I am watching sailors in their 20s waddle down the P-way. Unbelievable.
42 is not going to work. We need bolder thinking. The net needs to be cast wider...say size 46, or more. If that doesn't work, then make the 42 figure for %BF.
"We're gonna need a bigger boat"😂
DoD medical ready? Former SOCKOR general just had a heart attack and died, CMC has been hospitalized with a heart attack. We have damaged untold hearts in our population with that crap they forced on the population. We cannot recruit because there is a total lack of trust and confidence in leaders who are all too willing to sell their troops down the line for a promotion. I am shocked they have to reduce standards. SHOCKED I SAY!
Generals having heart attacks is not uncommon. Chappy James took over ADC/NORAD, was medically retired a month later and two (?) months later was dead. Up until retirement he was on flight status.
In keeping with last Sunday's podcast, Admiral Rickover had his in 1961. https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/remarks-upon-conferring-the-american-heart-association-award-upon-admiral-rickover
The same stupid idea is running rampant with the Friends dude. It ain't surprising when a white man in his 50's has a heart attack.
It happens, but then again, the kids, athletes, young men, etc. ramping or boosted numbers is questionable. Additionally, with nobody willing to actually research why, and when DoD changes the database when a whistle blower leaks the numbers, they show a total lack of transparency. Did you catch the story about the dude having a heart attack in the helo? He died and was resuscitated.
In case you're wondering, there are usually drops in deaths after a pandemic as it culls the weak and sickly. There are not usually rises in deaths. YMMV.
Smaller number of young people, so the maximum age will be kept higher, except for the Marines. But they know how to recruit young men.
That number of young people want no part in the military.
True. My son was passed on for USNA after summer seminar in favor of two females and an Asian American. 3 white kids in his grouping passed on. Very, very late he was offered 4 year nrotc ride so he decides to try it. Disliked being trained by disgruntled middies, 2nd class, angry staff, and usual tough guy nonsense. Passed and we advocated going to the5 day indoc and found the USMC dominated environment so toxic he could not stand the idea of staying. Passed and immediately dor’s the next morning and is attending a public ivy I wisely kept open as an option. Don’t blame him.
Me either. It is not the military it was back in the day.
It was an amazing organization and experience. It felt like we were the heirs of the WWII greatness that prevailed. Bet you never hear today a JO say to another “I’d do this for free.”
It was different! My Bn Sgt Major was a WW2 vet, fought at 16 as a marine rifleman in Bougainville, fought in Korea, then Vietnam.
He was over time to retire but with his record he stayed in.
The man was squared away and scared the shit out of me LOL
Great way for aging Millenials to get their trans operations paid for.
Jesus! I went in at 17 and it almost killed me LOL
I guess the remarks of the Generation that is in danger of being drafted hit home.
None of my Grandson's friends will go if drafted, heck the oldest knows how Carter pardoned all 2000 draft dodgers at the end of the war, and me and his other Paw Paw told him how we were treated as veterans.
They want no part of another losing war.
The Navy previously increased enlistment age up to 42. The services are struggling with recruiting and the outlook is only grim. Retention becoming worrisome. https://markhyman.substack.com/p/unwilling-to-serve
The recruitment crisis is a by-product of a country that approached military conflicts like they were engaged in a whack-a-mole marathon. Young men and women grew up in families who were a witness to the catastrophic physical and mental toll exacted upon family members who served in combat. Others who have seen/read/heard the devastation that's been unleashed on young vets returning from Iraq and Afghanistan. And noticing how the grand schemes of the wizards of smart, who thought they could re-write the landscape of the Middle East in western norms, were found to be flippin clueless but... they didn't seem to pay the price that grunts on the ground paid. So why would any 18 to 24 year today see military service as a worthy pursuit when they see what passes for military leadership in this country over the last 2 decades. So let's just see how eager young men and women are to sign up for service when the conversation gets around to Taiwan?
I was fine with the larger goal of altering Iraqi society. Sometimes, ideological war is just a matter of persistence. You can survive bad strategy if you have the persistence of will.
Poor middle management and morons in the general officer ranks was demoralizing. Seeing rampant double standards in discipline just made the whole thing meaningless. Senior leadership matters and major chunks of the military have terrible senior leaders.
I'm not a fan of the lofty aspirations and designs of those who want to re-craft other societies and who have a vague and shallow grasp of the intricacies of different societies; especially those societies whose customs and traditions bare little resemblance to that of our own. The breathtaking arrogance of "those who know things" (TM) who presumed to think they could refashion entire cultures in a span of time that fit our historically short attention span. Neglecting to account for the near certainty that any such investment would likely have to occur over successive generations to produce any lasting change. One might imagine that there would be constituents in said countries who might take some umbrage with outsiders messing with their home turf. So how many senior and field grade officers did we cycle in theatre over those 20 years? For 2 decades, we sought to press our will on Afghanistan, spending trillions, only to see the entire thing collapse in a matter of months. And then only to be told later that by the experts that they had "no regrets" on how the withdrawal from Afghanistan unfolded... but the rest of the world saw things in an entirely different light.
So now that SecNav hasw come out with his "strategic guidance on the long-term transformation and modernization of the service branch" that puts great emphasis on climate change, what a great opportunity to open up opportunities for more individuals to serve in the future "climate corps" formerly known as active duty military. Think about the opportunity to waive all those PT reqs because they are no longer relevant when it comes to "combatting" THE GREATEST threat we face. That way existing active duty ranks can serve as the eventual sponges they will become when the PRC unleashes its military. Just so long as the ranks of the climate corps are preserved so they can be about their yeoman's work.
First time I heard the military was worried about "climate change" I was sure it was a joke. Then I read their briefs and it was how "climate change" was going to alter behaviours and increase the likelihood of wars in various areas. So, day ending in "y" then? They've since completely lost their minds over this fecal matter.
Maybe some have lost their minds, Kamas, but I think it isn't more than half. I hate to think so but I believe that many are just embracing the party line grift as a practical matter to get that O-So-Vital up-check on their promotion viability check list. That scares me more than lost minds or stupidity. I have only good memories of the Golden Age during which I served to sustain me now. Otherwise, I might ask for Thorazine.
Realistically, during exercise people tend to breathe heavier and put more carbon into the atmosphere, so it should be illegal except for essential workers.
Never forget, WE are the carbon they want to descrease.
Active duty can purchase carbon offsets at market prices.
I take Metformin and eat lots of kimchi and Mexican food. If I volunteered to switch to Insulin and cut out the Mexican & Korean staples I could offset maybe a roomful of gym rats bench pressing truck axles and save lots of active duty guys from having to buy carbon offsets. It's a sacrifice I am willing to make. Still loyal to the oath as many others here are.
I joined the Navy Reserve directly through the APG program at age 35. Most people in the APG group at boot camp were in late 20s, and even that was a shambles. Given the way medical/PFA is these days, it's like whiplash as age/lack of fitness makes it exponentially worse -- people are gonna cork a gasket going down a ladder at this rate.
I used to run up and down ladders just like 90% of the shipmates I served with did until I hit around the 18 year point at 35. The laggards had further problems squeezing though scuttles after Condition Zebra was set. Age is a killer. That is a known fact. I don''t know many 42 year old people who are fit enough to join, either PT or girth-wise. And certainly a guy who joins at 42 is going to have a hard time at age 57 to pass a PRT or re-enlistment physical. They'll need waivers, and a two tiered fitness standard. Wouldn't surprise me if the Services cashiered those 57 year olds at the 15 year point to save paying out retirements. Nah, this tweaking of the age limit isn't going to fix the problem. They just need to make it a rewarding, exciting, challenging, fun job with good pay. They don't know how because that corporate knowledge is gone.
"They just need to make it a rewarding, exciting, challenging, fun job with good pay."
And stop demonizing white men, and stop elevating LGBTQ to be better than everyone else.
Makes me wonder if someone out there has been thinking about how to slowly open the door to bring in civilians who are farther along in their technical careers and bring certain skills/expertise to bear.
As the do with doctors.
They used to with the DPPO. Had a friend who was a steelworker in Boston who joined at age 26 as an SW1 toward the end of the Vietnam War. After 4 promotions he retired a CWO4 after 30 years.
I see patients for a local AFB. I inherited a number of them from a previous provider in my practicer. Most of them are on cross-sex hormones, MtF.
??
i can only imagine if anything happens to them & their pictures are on a newscast as the fallen.
As someone who fired TRICARE in favor of the VA, I suspect that except at maybe Balboa in San Diego, Brooke in San Antonio, and Walter-Reed Bethesda, where there are very large retiree populations, no, they aren't. I know experience with VA varies wildly region-to-region, but here in Eastern Kansas they went after my problems not symptoms, and fixed me in two years so that I was mobile again and subsequently able to lose 130 lbs and dropping. But I'm left with the residual kidney and liver damage (which I get paid for).
The paradigm between the systems is different. DoD health care sees mostly male, 18-27 relatively healthy folk presenting with standard acute illnesses and sometimes severe trauma. It is designed to get the troop back to duty as quickly as possible, giving them an incentive to use the famous "Take two 800mg motrin, stay hydrated and change your socks" meme. Because the resultant liver, kidney, and joint issues... are going to be passed to VA.
Good old Vitamin M
A couple of options:
1. The Armed Forces can recruit illegal aliens to fill the ranks. This did wonders for ancient Rome.
or
2. The US can change the purpose of the armed forces from being the policeman of the world to just protecting the homeland. Imagine if we brought home all the troops stationed overseas. Imagine if we ceased to interfere in the internal affairs of other countries no matter how awful they are. We could even pare back the size of the armed forces!
I suspect DC will go with Option #1
It is already doing option one. I guess they could increase the flow on that pipeline.
Are you mad?! How are we to keep Raytheon, GD, et al... in-business and our precious politicos getting their oh so sweet kickbacks? Damned insensitive of you to even suggest #2.
I am mad at a lot of things these days.
Concur. Option 1 is the likely plan
From American Military News:
"A new report shows that almost 70% of U.S. military troops are overweight or obese, prompting long-term concerns about national security and military readiness.
According to a new study conducted by the American Security Project, a nonprofit organization based in Washington, 68% of active duty troops in the U.S. military are considered overweight or obese based on the body mass index method of classification determined by a person’s weight and height."
But to state so in public is - take your pick - racist, sexist, homophobic, misogynistic, fatphobic, and a plethora of others. So why not add gerontophobic to the list.
That annual EKG is gonna have some interesting stats.
This sounds like BS. From my background as a personal trainer (American College of Sports Medicine) BMI is a nearly useless metric for determining obesity.
Sure, there are tons of professional and amateur athletes who are considered obese or overweight if one uses the BMI numbers. But the other 99% of those considered obese or overweight are just fatties.
A valid point. When I was at the trade school, 5'9" 210 with roughly 31 waist, and could bench 400+ squat 500+, I was officially obese.
When was the last time you visited a Naval Station or the base uniform shop?
Last time I bought uniforms was around 1988. I was 40. Had plenty that fit just fine but always had an eye out for spare size 36" waists or to stockpile for size 38 should the day come. It was rare to see anything above size 36 in the NEX or Small Stores locally. A Senior Chief friend of mine on staff duty who did lots of travel to DC for conferences once called me. "Hey Dale....you won't believe this s__t. The NEX here in DC has up to 44 pants...khaki, blues, whites. You want me to buy you some?" I declined as my BMI was a constant 21.99% because of self-imposed PT, and fasting 30 days before PTR.
First we were to 'celebrate' gays .. then trannies ... now grannies.
DOD has become a dangerous joke.
Perhaps the USN should concentrate on recruiting cougars. It could raise morale.
Funny story ... nah. It's a public forum:)
I can see a few upsides to a few older junior ranks. However.......perhaps the Navy should have considered offering extremely generous bonuses to SelRes and brought them into the fleet without the accession costs and time associated with new recruits. Nevermind they'd most likely already be in better shape than the average civilian of that age.
For technical and engineering type slots the grey matter of this Grey group could be good to have on board