This thing has political appointee stupidity written all over it. There’s a reason there are no port facilities in Gaza, and anyone who can read a map can understand it. And no one put their rank on the line for this. Of course, I can’t think of anyone doing that with good effect since VADM Connolly persuade Congress to kill the F-111B in 1968.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Army parochialism is part of it. That not a single person said no in public is just as damning of the political class. And that includes the SecDef.
The Army has had the JLOTS mission for decades - that's why they had the equipment on hand. The no boots on the ground nonsense has to make it all the more difficult and less effective. The political idiocy of the last 30+ years (no exceptions for any Oval Office occupant) has come to roost again.
"Joint", to hear it uttered no causes waves of nausea.
We fought WWII with great success with a Department of War and a Department of the Navy. Somehow, the chief generals and admirals of the day managed to get together routinely and plot out WWII to a win.
Can we really be so sure that failure wasn't the ultimate goal here? Meaning, I think this operation was set up to fail. Administration makes a token gesture to placate a vocal constituency. Operation fails. Administration then gets to blame the weather.
I don't think they "plan to fail". but the Biden gaggle (less well organized than a "crowd") certainly fails to plan, which is pretty much the same thing, I guess.
$300M to assist the murderous Hamas supporters who celebrated and danced in the streets after 9-11 and Oct 7. Don't we get that whatever we do it will never be enough and the hatred of the USA will continue unabated until the Palestinians aren't indoctrinated from birth that Jews are decendants of pigs and the US is the root of all evil.
Politics dictates policy. Placating a critical constituency pushed a decision that made no sense. The loyal / controlled / party not in power could not / would not raise enough objections to even look at how poorly thought out this was. Would like to think they "didn't want to interrupt their adversary while he was making a mistake" but lean heavily towards not rocking the political donation fundraising by the Military Industrial Complex (TM) excited to demonstrate the "viability" and "jointness" of the "dock". Remember, things happen in acquisition (where the "real" money is) because the congress, Military Industrial Complex (TM), and DoD because everyone is happy with what and how it is happening. Only one "lens" of how to look at this, YMMV.
I suspect the real problem is that no one’s heart is in the mission. How would you like to build a pier to feed people who danced for joy on the day the Twin Towers came down or who launched a sadistic raping and murdering spree? I feel as sorry for the people of Gaza today as I would have felt for the people in Berlin in 1943.
Bush 2 was great?! He and his gang of idiots at DoD created a mess in Iraq that only the surge helped mitigate, at least to some extent. Don't forget their obsession with Iraq allowed Afghanistan to go down the drain. As I stated in a previous comment, the last president to not totally screw things up was Bush 1.
I think the drill sergeant was referring to years not presidents. As for Bush, Sr. his New World Order is why we are in such a mess today not to mention socking us with high taxes despite telling us Read My Lips No New Taxes
Wow... what a spectacular display of incompetence at work here. Back in the day, an amphibious Seabee battalion embarked with a MARG. One might have imagined that given the scope of littoral regions the Navy expects to operate within, one might have imagine that decommissioning 1 of only 2 ACBs might be inadvisable. But the people "who know things"(TM) clearly have matters well in hand. If I were the PLAN, I would probably make up a looped video reel of this fiasco to distribute fleet-wide.
1.) I AM mad at the official. He or she is publicly saying something they know is untrue, at the behest of a boss. Backbone, character, integrity, call it what you will. It is lacking. It smacks of 'befehl ist befehl,' which filled the docks at Nuremberg.
2.) You define this as 'failure.' I am not so certain all of this, so carefully orchestrated, is not working out precisely as intended by those REALLY setting the policies and making the decisions. The destruction of our credibility and disdain for our national will, which exposes our throats to the wolves. After all, we are (along with the UK and Israel) the "great white colonizers" of the Obama-Rice-Jarrett-Harris-Austin-AOC-Omar-CJCS Brown fevered fantasies.
I went back and browsed a couple decades of Proceedings issues to see if there had been any articles submitted (or should say accepted) about any links to "Seafairing" and the US Navy...
I mean, since a 'Navy' should be 'Nautical' at its core you would think (as the Indian Navy strives to foster) ...
And...Couldn't find a thing.
Lots of discussion of the pervasive fact that being a 'boat driver' is regarded as a
rarely chosen main job though.
Yes, JLOTS is an Army 'Enterprise' (and yes, I well remember the Army transports moored at Alameda in the early years of Vietnam, so know all about the Army and boats...), but somebody wearing blue...err...wearing Army drag with some hard to spot Navy insignias...should have spoken as the voice of reason about why this misadventure was a terrible idea.
But there isn't a US Navy per se. There's just a loosely confederated gaggle of 'Communities' wearing the Name...On their forest cammies and jungle green 'pajama' flight suits.
And there is sadly little Nautical about the whole menagerie.
Which is interesting because Top Gun had a US/Canada gross of $180M and Hunt for Red October had a US/Canada gross of $120M. Of course HFRO has Sean Connery and an all male cast with no Hollywood inspired girlboss.
Total and complete dumpster fire. Pax Americana high water mark.
This is the perfect example of the shitshow that has become our national identity. Somehow over night we are to believe that we can’t even maintain a fucking pier or series of piers as a military and yet we could and did in Normandy in 44-45.
If this is truly the state of our military capability, (which I doubt and suspect this was intended to happen as a means of saving political face and not be overrun by Palestinian refugees claiming amnesty) then our military leadership needs to be held accountable. Oh right. What’s a couple of Army barges in a naval arena compared to Baghdad, Bagram, Benghazi and Kabul?
My grandfather was a Seabee in WWII in the south pacific. If he were alive today and saw that mess, I think he would have been mystified as to how things got to that point. Clearly the Army had impressive capabilities in this arena back in the day as well. Well that was then... this is depressingly now.
A cluster f**k of epic proportions. I believe we should have a Gaza Pier Czar not unlike the Border Czar, Drug Czar, Homeland Security Czar, etc, ad nauseam. Everything would have gone smoothly if only another career bureaucrat had been allowed to apply their ego and incompetence to something they know (nor will ever) anything about.
Poll numbers will always be paramount before people on the ground.
The two Sals nailed this totally predictable situation months ago, when Uncle Joe announced his Amazing Floating Pier and Amusement Park. The floating pier is now a boardwalk. At least they could have included a Ferris wheel and a roller coaster.
As a sailor who spent many a month in the Med, when I saw this proposal I immediately realized that it reeked of political direction from on high. Sure enough---another stupid shot into our own er, feet. Afghanistan and now this. What next, forcing Israel to allow Hamas to continue to exist?
Regarding the last sentence, that's exactly what 50%+ of our elite students and faculty, the AOC-Omar-Talib wing of our own government, and 2/3 of the world want. They all explicitly yearn for the destruction of Israel.
So say we all.
This thing has political appointee stupidity written all over it. There’s a reason there are no port facilities in Gaza, and anyone who can read a map can understand it. And no one put their rank on the line for this. Of course, I can’t think of anyone doing that with good effect since VADM Connolly persuade Congress to kill the F-111B in 1968.
I was wondering at the beginning of all this if was an Army mission because of parochial influence by the SecDef.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Army parochialism is part of it. That not a single person said no in public is just as damning of the political class. And that includes the SecDef.
Like meeting and marrying a las vegas stripper in one night? It probably seemed like a good idea at the time. https://youtu.be/mGfBEnBw01A?feature=shared
At least questionable marital decisions are a personal one that we have a way to deal with. This is obsequious yes-manism.
"Normally I wear protection, but then, when am I going to be in Haiti again?"
Spade aged well with that one
The Army has had the JLOTS mission for decades - that's why they had the equipment on hand. The no boots on the ground nonsense has to make it all the more difficult and less effective. The political idiocy of the last 30+ years (no exceptions for any Oval Office occupant) has come to roost again.
My understanding is JLOTSis designed for sheltered harbors and not open water.
Indeed...the decision to issue the no boots on the beach edict, smells of, "what's the least we can do to still move gear ashore"
How about those CeBe's or, CB's ...isn't it SeeBee's? They build stuff right?
Oh, they're only on the West Coast, Navy got rid of the East Coast unit, beside Big Guy said no boots on the ground
Don't we have landing craft and amphibious ships that can do this?
No, no too dramatic looking, we don't want to look like a D-Day landing.
But, but, but, aren't we supposed to look like the saviors we're supposed to be?
...shut-up.
What about all those expeditionary ships we have, aren't they designed for moving cargo between ships?
Much too big, our footprint has to be small and The Big Guy doesn't want anybody or, anything ashore.
I got it! We can just assemble a JLOTS pier, and jam-it into the beach, then roll everything off. No boots on the ground, the Army does this all time.
Mr President, mr. president....we have our solution.
Of course the POS had to have a J in the title (JLOTS) to validate our blind adherence to the false god of jointness.
"Joint", to hear it uttered no causes waves of nausea.
We fought WWII with great success with a Department of War and a Department of the Navy. Somehow, the chief generals and admirals of the day managed to get together routinely and plot out WWII to a win.
Can we really be so sure that failure wasn't the ultimate goal here? Meaning, I think this operation was set up to fail. Administration makes a token gesture to placate a vocal constituency. Operation fails. Administration then gets to blame the weather.
I don't think they "plan to fail". but the Biden gaggle (less well organized than a "crowd") certainly fails to plan, which is pretty much the same thing, I guess.
$300M to assist the murderous Hamas supporters who celebrated and danced in the streets after 9-11 and Oct 7. Don't we get that whatever we do it will never be enough and the hatred of the USA will continue unabated until the Palestinians aren't indoctrinated from birth that Jews are decendants of pigs and the US is the root of all evil.
I want to know how the **** they can spend $300M on a floating dock? Really? Oh, maybe in these days its a “Smart Dock”.
Who was dancing?
https://thegrayzone.com/2021/09/11/dancing-israelis-9-11-plotters-spies-scam-artists/
Happy to see the CDR get a bump from the Instapundit crowd!
Glenn Reynolds at Instapundit links to Sal just about every week.
I do not read Insty as much as I used to. Glenn only has about one out of 10+ posts now. Hoyt & Driscoll seem to be the most common posters.
Politics dictates policy. Placating a critical constituency pushed a decision that made no sense. The loyal / controlled / party not in power could not / would not raise enough objections to even look at how poorly thought out this was. Would like to think they "didn't want to interrupt their adversary while he was making a mistake" but lean heavily towards not rocking the political donation fundraising by the Military Industrial Complex (TM) excited to demonstrate the "viability" and "jointness" of the "dock". Remember, things happen in acquisition (where the "real" money is) because the congress, Military Industrial Complex (TM), and DoD because everyone is happy with what and how it is happening. Only one "lens" of how to look at this, YMMV.
I suspect the real problem is that no one’s heart is in the mission. How would you like to build a pier to feed people who danced for joy on the day the Twin Towers came down or who launched a sadistic raping and murdering spree? I feel as sorry for the people of Gaza today as I would have felt for the people in Berlin in 1943.
43 was great
A token strike or two
May 45. The gates of helll opened
Bush 2 was great?! He and his gang of idiots at DoD created a mess in Iraq that only the surge helped mitigate, at least to some extent. Don't forget their obsession with Iraq allowed Afghanistan to go down the drain. As I stated in a previous comment, the last president to not totally screw things up was Bush 1.
1943.
I think the drill sergeant was referring to years not presidents. As for Bush, Sr. his New World Order is why we are in such a mess today not to mention socking us with high taxes despite telling us Read My Lips No New Taxes
Wow... what a spectacular display of incompetence at work here. Back in the day, an amphibious Seabee battalion embarked with a MARG. One might have imagined that given the scope of littoral regions the Navy expects to operate within, one might have imagine that decommissioning 1 of only 2 ACBs might be inadvisable. But the people "who know things"(TM) clearly have matters well in hand. If I were the PLAN, I would probably make up a looped video reel of this fiasco to distribute fleet-wide.
Good for PLAN morale
Not many applicable lessons learned
😂👏👍
no Seabees in today's admiralty, and it couldn't be more obvious.
Civil Engineer Corps, command the NMCBs, has a few. 2-star for PacDiv referred to me as an "uppity" ensign back in the day.
Two points, if I may.
1.) I AM mad at the official. He or she is publicly saying something they know is untrue, at the behest of a boss. Backbone, character, integrity, call it what you will. It is lacking. It smacks of 'befehl ist befehl,' which filled the docks at Nuremberg.
2.) You define this as 'failure.' I am not so certain all of this, so carefully orchestrated, is not working out precisely as intended by those REALLY setting the policies and making the decisions. The destruction of our credibility and disdain for our national will, which exposes our throats to the wolves. After all, we are (along with the UK and Israel) the "great white colonizers" of the Obama-Rice-Jarrett-Harris-Austin-AOC-Omar-CJCS Brown fevered fantasies.
I went back and browsed a couple decades of Proceedings issues to see if there had been any articles submitted (or should say accepted) about any links to "Seafairing" and the US Navy...
I mean, since a 'Navy' should be 'Nautical' at its core you would think (as the Indian Navy strives to foster) ...
And...Couldn't find a thing.
Lots of discussion of the pervasive fact that being a 'boat driver' is regarded as a
rarely chosen main job though.
Yes, JLOTS is an Army 'Enterprise' (and yes, I well remember the Army transports moored at Alameda in the early years of Vietnam, so know all about the Army and boats...), but somebody wearing blue...err...wearing Army drag with some hard to spot Navy insignias...should have spoken as the voice of reason about why this misadventure was a terrible idea.
But there isn't a US Navy per se. There's just a loosely confederated gaggle of 'Communities' wearing the Name...On their forest cammies and jungle green 'pajama' flight suits.
And there is sadly little Nautical about the whole menagerie.
Is Naughtical a word?
Dread Naughtical?
When the average citizen thinks of the modern 'US Navy', it's about roid'd out SEALS and TOP GUN...
Which is interesting because Top Gun had a US/Canada gross of $180M and Hunt for Red October had a US/Canada gross of $120M. Of course HFRO has Sean Connery and an all male cast with no Hollywood inspired girlboss.
It has Sally's bear. You know that bear was in another movie too?
We used to laugh that the pilots had "Top Gun" and the subbies had "Red October" while the SWOs got Kevin Costner as a Soviet mole in "No Way Out."
It should be.
"How would describe the planning and risk analysis that went into this operation?"
"Its was naughtical."
Central Planning at its best.
Total and complete dumpster fire. Pax Americana high water mark.
This is the perfect example of the shitshow that has become our national identity. Somehow over night we are to believe that we can’t even maintain a fucking pier or series of piers as a military and yet we could and did in Normandy in 44-45.
If this is truly the state of our military capability, (which I doubt and suspect this was intended to happen as a means of saving political face and not be overrun by Palestinian refugees claiming amnesty) then our military leadership needs to be held accountable. Oh right. What’s a couple of Army barges in a naval arena compared to Baghdad, Bagram, Benghazi and Kabul?
My grandfather was a Seabee in WWII in the south pacific. If he were alive today and saw that mess, I think he would have been mystified as to how things got to that point. Clearly the Army had impressive capabilities in this arena back in the day as well. Well that was then... this is depressingly now.
Truly
A cluster f**k of epic proportions. I believe we should have a Gaza Pier Czar not unlike the Border Czar, Drug Czar, Homeland Security Czar, etc, ad nauseam. Everything would have gone smoothly if only another career bureaucrat had been allowed to apply their ego and incompetence to something they know (nor will ever) anything about.
Poll numbers will always be paramount before people on the ground.
Our peers laugh at our pier.
The two Sals nailed this totally predictable situation months ago, when Uncle Joe announced his Amazing Floating Pier and Amusement Park. The floating pier is now a boardwalk. At least they could have included a Ferris wheel and a roller coaster.
Does Blinken have a pair of floppy feet and a spinning bowtie?
As a sailor who spent many a month in the Med, when I saw this proposal I immediately realized that it reeked of political direction from on high. Sure enough---another stupid shot into our own er, feet. Afghanistan and now this. What next, forcing Israel to allow Hamas to continue to exist?
Er...this was a shot to the privates from appendix carry, Captain. And now they are applying the tourniquet. : (
Dale: Applying the tourniquet...to the neck.
Hah! Oh yeah, Billrla...but only after a thoughtful triage determined that palliative care was warranted.
Regarding the last sentence, that's exactly what 50%+ of our elite students and faculty, the AOC-Omar-Talib wing of our own government, and 2/3 of the world want. They all explicitly yearn for the destruction of Israel.
Worse, 50% of our elite students can't find Gaza on a map.
They also think Gaza is a bandaid found in the first aid kit.
Damn that was good...
I have a particular set of skills…
wait for the power to go out; they won't even know what a map is.
They are helpless without TikTok
Israel should go full Curtiss LeMay on Gaza. Think Tokyo raids. Make An Example of them.
Carthago delende est?
Yes
" political direction from on high."
Well, the boss said "build a pier". He didn't say anything about actually efficiently delivering humanitarian relief. Priorities, sir.
I expect that what the boss actually said was something like "Quick, we have to do something that shows empathy for the Palestinians".
We won't get accountability or even a simpering apology. Congress hasn't the will for it. This'll be a job for the PAO's.
Kirby (Really Smart 'Navy' Guy...) will bloviate it away...