29 Comments

Concerning your second to last paragraph: throughout the course of time our allies paid multiple generations to war. Us? Not so much.

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May 12, 2023Liked by CDR Salamander

Feel ya. My grandfather (the Auld Soldier's Auld Soldier), was being a forward observer in France at the time your Pops was out cruising the briny.

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Texas still exists and is worth a visit. Currently it is undergoing dockyard restoration in Galveston, TX. It should be on display again after that, either at Galveston or Baytown. (I am hoping for Baytown, even though it would be a longer trip. The fresh water would be better for the hull.)

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founding

If my memory serves, the British did not want us to send our newest ships, because they were all oil burners, and oil was limited in the UK at the time. The ships sent were older, coal powered types.

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Your memory serves you well. The oil-fueled BBs were reserved for convoy escort duties for precisely that reason.

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May 12, 2023Liked by CDR Salamander

Sal,

You're still hang'in in there. And it's appreciated. BZ. I'm back to daily CS review now that Rush, Ol'e Remus and Gerrard Vanderleun broke their flags for good. Carry on.

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Why cats are banned from Carrier Decks...

http://ace.mu.nu/archives/acts%20accarriers.jfif

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Whether or not the USA should have gotten involved in the Great War earlier is an interesting debate. It's entirely plausible that the threat of American intervention in 1914 would have stopped the Austro-Serbian war from exploding into a larger conflict. On the other hand, what was OUR national interest in a European war? The Zimmermann telegram exposed German plans to pull Mexico into the war if the USA intervened in Europe, giving us a causus belli. But earlier? Much harder to make the case.

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Economics, I believe. US business interests in Europe.

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We couldn't sell them arms and give them money if the Hun sank our ships and their war supplies, reminds me of what might just happen with that cousin's border war in Ukraine.

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May 13, 2023·edited May 13, 2023

WW1 Was one war we should have just embraced the suck and stayed out of.

I've heard this from my Grandfather and his friends who served in the Army then.

Wilson's war after he broke that promise of no involvement, Me I came along during the Korean war, just in time for Vietnam.

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Both my granddads were too old for WWI. But in WWII had 3 uncles (Don, Dale, John) on a small repair ship, destroyer and battleship & destroyer in the Pacific. 1 uncle (Kenny) in the Atlantic on two destroyers (one was sunk). Another uncle, a Naval officer (Paul) on the Manhattan Project. My dad was a USAAF pilot in North Africa and the ETO. Uncle Reese was an Army grunt in the ETO. Uncle John and my dad were the only two to make the military a career. Both served in the Korean War too. Uncle John was also in Vietnam. Of the offspring, in my generation, 8 (7 cousins & my older brother) of us served, all in the Navy, all from the paternal side of the family. 6 men, 2 women, 5 for 4 years, 3 for a 24, 24 and 26 year career. The maternal side's kids were raised in California and had no interest in the Services. I know of only 1 in the next generation who served, one 4 years in the USMC and another now in the Army in another generation removed.

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Both My Grand sons say they don't want to join a bunch of Q#eers.

I hear that from their friends too. I told them you can do like your Dad and go aviation use the training to find a slot in civilian life making good money, and they always say Sure Paw Paw but what about the Q#eers?

The military today is not well thought of among the young.

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In my own experience (1965-1991), even before DADT, not many of us cared too much about non-straight people serving among us as long as certain "rules" were observed, that is, don't flirt, don't stare in the showers, refrain from being flamboyant. Sure, NIS cared because they might be subject to blackmail and violate classified information. But most of us? While we found their private lifestyle repulsive we pretty much didn't care as long as they stayed in their own lane. No one had to be Sherlock Holmes to know who was gay. In my own observation many of those guys were hard workers and good at their jobs. Assets. So who cared? The ones who outed themselves by not following the simple unwritten rules got discharged. The rest served in silence. At the deckplates level we knew who they were and didn't care. Clinton didn't invent DADT. I am sure that even today there's a place for them. Call me old-fashioned but no trannies, no swishers, no in-your-face activists...make as good an effort to live and let live as many of us did way back when.

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One guy in my platoon in Germany used to serenade me in the latrine as I shaved, etc. Another tried, subtly, to recruit me. A couple of others made passes, but never tried again after an initial rebuff (I must have been cuter back then than I am now). I would still classify them all as friends and would gladly have a few beers with them.

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For eff's sake. Perhaps you should inform your grandsons and their friends that "queers" have been in the military since at least the time of the ancient Greeks. "Don't ask, don't tell" was invented long, long ago. You could also tell those manly young men that they don't have to be "queer" themselves; "Just say no!" is still an option. I served with a number of "queers". At least I'm pretty sure, although I cannot be 100% certain, me being straight and all. Even slept "cheek to cheek" with them on a couple of occasions, even ate from the same container with the same spoon.

Your grandsons and their friends need to grow up.

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The problem isn't the homosexuals who mind their own business and keep their eyes, mitts and their 'lifestyles' to themselves. We had them around back in my day (80s & 90s) as well. The problem now is that live and let live has been replaced with celebrate and indoctrinate. FedGov, DoD and its components fall all over themselves to pander to every perversion under the Sun except pedophilia and that one will come eventually. That's what disturbs his grandsons and I don't blame them. They don't need to grow up, they're smart enough to see what's going on.

I work around the Navy. Next month my inbox will be flooded with Pride Month garbage that I find disgusting and don't want to see. In fact, I've already seen one PAO email, so the June pride crap has already begun. Every one of those senders that I can send to Spam I do. They're rubbing this in our faces and they're doing it on Government time and at taxpayer expense.

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founding

At least in the Navy, it has pretty much always been that sexual attraction between crew members is corrosive of good order and discipline. We are again learning that lesson by putting women on ships at sea.

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Amen. Preach it!

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These traditions are why so many young men and women have been willing to go. The insulting of that memory has been part of the recruiting problem. My grandfathers were both Korean era veterans; one USAF enlisted and in theater, the other an aviation psychologist who says he spent the least amount of time on a ship possible for a Naval officer. Lest we forget them.

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First ship was an AKA, newest in the fleet. Problem was steaming in formation required 15 knots, solo we could run at 20 knots with a flank of 23. Loved standing on the flybridge with saltwater spray in your face coming over the bow a long way away, running from Guam to Yokohama in a storm. Gators rule.

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My Uncle served aboard the MARYLAND. His favorite sea story was getting up in the crows nest during typhoons. Just because it was a thriller. A veterans support group arranged for him to pilot a glider at 90 years old. He left the ships ball cap to one of his 13 children.

He passed at age 92. Tough old salt he was. Miss him.

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I had a Maternal Uncle who was in the Merchant Marine during WW2 My Dad was Army so he ribbed him about being on a supply ship, crossing the Atlantic in style instead of suffering like the real men in the Army did.

He would just laugh and shake his head. See Uncle Buford served on a Tanker, Oil, Av Gas, Petroleum delivering heating fuel and such to Britain. Crossing the sea filled with German Wolf Packs.

Just a common merchant seaman and more of a Hero than my Dad knew.

He joined before the war started so saw a lot of ports that became occupied land later.

He told me when I asked what he did he said oh we sailed around and waited for that Torpedo, a floating target.

His Uniform looked like the Uniforms in your pictures.

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I just re-read Nicolas Monsarrat's The Cruel Sea last week after 60 years. Convoys were no picnic.

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I have read that book also!

Gave me a look into the dull routine of sea mixed with fear and the cold sea that awaits the victims.

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One of my managers in the mid-1970's had been a B-17 pilot in the 8th Air Force and had managed to survive twenty-five missions over Germany.

We should note that 4,735 of the 12,732 B-17s produced for WWII were shot down, and many of the remainder were scrapped after being too badly damaged to fly again.

His assistant manager had been an infantryman in Patton's 3rd Army and had seen a lot of action between September 1944 and May 1945.

Both agreed that a combat infantryman fighting on the ground in Europe had a better chance of surviving WWII than did a crewman aboard a B-17 flying over Europe.

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There was a teacher in my high school, an older and leathery guy with one ear missing. No one knew why his ear was missing until some Japanese came to tour our school and he refused to allow them in his classroom. He had been in a Japanese POW camp.

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No apologies necessary, great post. What a terriffic famly connection to a great ship. I am entering a bit of a writing doldrum myself because of a trip I'm taking. We are finally getting to bury my grandmother's brother next weekend, almost 80 years after he was lost in OP Tidal Wave.

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I tell them that and yes I served with guys who liked guys, they kept it low profile not flagrant and if they did their jobs, had your back and were good Marines hey who cared.

I have a friend who runs a store in the town close to us who is a real normal gay guy. Never put moves on me or gets militant. He even has Religion and is a Christian.

The Grandsons are growing up, learning the hard way and easy way that is the way of life.

I think the youngest may just try for an aviation job after high school he is taking College courses now, His Dad was a multiple tour Marine S/Sgt in a HMLA in the sandboxes, went contractor, got out and turned that training he got at Millington and special schools into a six figure salary owns his own business and did good, the youngest has more rapport than the oldest. He has mentioned the Air Force more than once.

They may just be picking on Paw Paw LOL

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