An absolutely totally toxically masculine perxon. Glad we wouldn't tolerate such behavior today./ sarc/off.
Awful to say, how many of this type / gender were "culled from the herd" by WWI and WWII. How many of this type of...exist in society today? Our military?
He seems to be the ultimate warrior. Not just a violent killer, "useless in peace but invaluable in war" but able to provide genuine value in peacetime as well. But when "the drums begin to roll" and all can hear the sound of guns, he was double timing towards them. Honest question, is he in heaven or hell? Have to think he'd disturb the status quo in either place. RIP only if you want to, I guess...
Heaven or hell? Depends on his motivation. Without trying to get into a heavy theological discussion, I believe a person really has to work hard to end up in hell, there being lesser degrees of separation from a "singular" heaven for lesser sins and decisions. PM me if you want to discuss. Otherwise, let's just stand tall and salute.
Also, for those so inclined, the subject of the Sabaton song "The Unkillable Soldier", though that song only covers his WW1 actions, and the only wound it explicitly mentions is the lost eye.
[edit] The above isn't a complaint, mind you. The song was from an album about WW1, and there's only so much you can fit into a song without it giving the full version of "Innagaddadavida" (sp?) a run for its money.
The British don't just hand out medals for participation and good spelling. You have to have actually done something! Meanwhile, in the States it's possible to fail upwards in a desk job and still retire with more stuff on your chest than a North Korean General.
Almost sarcastic. Sometimes I look at the salad on the chest of some of these four stars to see what the salad consists of. Most of it seems to be "Been there" and service ribbons. How many ribbons did EIsenhower have?
In the inter-war period, Carton de Wiart had an issue - two men in his command were seeing the same woman, causing a moral problem. He came up with a solution: he proposed a duel. When one man refused to even discuss the possibility of a duel, Carton de Wiart upbraided him as a coward who didn't deserve the affections of a woman and had him transferred out as LMF (lack of moral fibre). Problem solved.
"The Bronze Star Medal (BSM) is a United States Armed Forces decoration awarded to members of the United States Armed Forces for either heroic achievement, heroic service, meritorious achievement, or meritorious service in a combat zone.
When the medal is awarded by the Army, Air Force, or Space Force for acts of valor in combat, the "V" device is authorized for wear on the medal. When the medal is awarded by the Navy, Marine Corps, or Coast Guard for acts of valor or meritorious service in combat, the Combat "V" is authorized for wear on the medal.?
My dad got his in the Philippines during the fighting in 1944, for charging and taking out a Japanese machine gun nest with his BAR. Killed at least 6 Japanese and was wounded during the episode. I wonder how his single Bronze Star stacks up against Milley's quadruple.
when you look at Milley's rack locate the NDSM. 4th row from bottom, on left side. It and the other 11 below it, are showing up awards. The 8 above at least took somebody to cut and paste an award citation. compare and contrast with a General I used to work for:
Air Medals are not especially impressive (I have 4 of them).... For example, during the Vietnam war the AC-130 crews would get an air medal for every trip north of the DMZ. every flight they drew ground fire on, every 2nd night mission (which is what they mostly flew) and every 4th or 5th mission - even if it was cancelled before takeoff. One of my C130 instructors had 35 of them, from his AC-130 days in Vietnam
I got mine for not killing myself and the crew/passengers a couple of times in Hercs. One was a downgrade from a DFC, which I guess was kind of significant.
And PH's are kind of easy to get too (Vindman, for example, or Lurch Kerry): Any injury in combat zone that requires a medical officers treatment. Slip in the shower in Kabul? I got mine in Saudi Arabia in 1991, after a scud attack - got a little shrapnel scratch.
Milley's ARCOM and Achievement medals are not too impressive, nor is his end of service awards - the Defense Distinguished Service and Navy Distinguished Service awards.
I don't know where Barry got all his wounds but I know he had an ugly (as in missing most the muscle) scar on one of his forearms. 2 DSC's aren't showing up awards. One on each of 2 tours. First as an ARVN Advisor, second as a Company Cdr. Most highly decorated and youngest Army four-star General at retirement
I've mentioned this before but still is germane. When I was a flag aide at NavSea in DC John Bulkeley came in to the outer office in his SDBs. At the time he was INSURV. His one row of ribbons was the MOH, NC, and Sea Service. I said "may I ask you a question?" and he said "Of course". "why only 3 ribbons?" and he said "well the MOH was presented by the president, the Navy Cross by the Secretary of War and I'm a sailor and sailors go to sea".
I brought him coffee and we chatted about his retirement and recall and how important an honest INSURV was to the Navy. He was a genuine hero.
Not sure the evac of Quezon trip merits the MoH, because he was ordered to do that, but the citation says: "For this and other exploits in the early days of the war, Bulkeley was awarded the Medal of Honor."
I'm believing that there were many other ballsy missions in the PI seas though. He was a combat leader of heroic proportions
Several years ago, my wife and I toured the Submarine Museum in New London. One of the displays included the entire "fruit salad" of one of the submarine commanding officers in WWII. As I recall, seven ribbons, MoH, Navy Cross w/ Gold Star, Silver Star WWII Victory Medal, Pacific Campaign Medal and a couple more similar awards. Today our FOGOs are bemedaled from (in the words of a classmate) "from crotch to clavicle." If I were SECNAV, no award to Flags inside the DC beltway and no FOGO can wear more than three rows of ribbons. We need leaders not exhibitionists.
Thank you - the incident I mentioned above is from that book and I have been trying to remember the title all afternoon (book is at home and I am at the coast with the mate). It doesn't appear to be available in the US - got my copy in London ages ago - but I'm sure anyone interested can order it from the usual vendors who ship overseas.
Between the wars Carton de Wiart lived for 15 years on an estate "found" for him by his WW1 ADC Prince Radziwill, in the midst of the Pripet Marshes and accessible only by a 40-mile boat journey, where he hunted capercailzie, blackgame, ducks, geeese, snipe, pigeons and woodcock. The Pripet Marshes, a vast wetland the size of all Minnesota, line the course of the Pripyat River from Brest-Litovsk to Chernobyl. The Ukraine-Belarus border parallels the Pripyat, and the marshes form an insuperable obstacle to any attack on Ukraine from the north, as the Russians rediscovered in 2022.
Absolute stud. There is a reason at one time the sun never set on the British Empire.
Having myself some years ago lost an argument with a table saw about the relative value of attention and safety measures as contrasted with carelessness and stupidity, this line left an impression: "but not before he tore off some damaged fingers by himself."
He was from Belgium.
An absolutely totally toxically masculine perxon. Glad we wouldn't tolerate such behavior today./ sarc/off.
Awful to say, how many of this type / gender were "culled from the herd" by WWI and WWII. How many of this type of...exist in society today? Our military?
He seems to be the ultimate warrior. Not just a violent killer, "useless in peace but invaluable in war" but able to provide genuine value in peacetime as well. But when "the drums begin to roll" and all can hear the sound of guns, he was double timing towards them. Honest question, is he in heaven or hell? Have to think he'd disturb the status quo in either place. RIP only if you want to, I guess...
Heaven or hell? Depends on his motivation. Without trying to get into a heavy theological discussion, I believe a person really has to work hard to end up in hell, there being lesser degrees of separation from a "singular" heaven for lesser sins and decisions. PM me if you want to discuss. Otherwise, let's just stand tall and salute.
OOHHHRRaaa!
Also, for those so inclined, the subject of the Sabaton song "The Unkillable Soldier", though that song only covers his WW1 actions, and the only wound it explicitly mentions is the lost eye.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4vj_WB5w_k
[edit] The above isn't a complaint, mind you. The song was from an album about WW1, and there's only so much you can fit into a song without it giving the full version of "Innagaddadavida" (sp?) a run for its money.
Are you the SoB that introduced us to Sabaton 1916 (and thus Motorhead 1916) a few months ago? You've killed my ears, and my liver.
I can't claim that particular "kill", this is the first time I've mentioned them.
Somebody did; I'm not sure how I missed them all these years
"Slacker" 😆
The British don't just hand out medals for participation and good spelling. You have to have actually done something! Meanwhile, in the States it's possible to fail upwards in a desk job and still retire with more stuff on your chest than a North Korean General.
(Disclaimer: this comment is sarcastic.)
Almost sarcastic. Sometimes I look at the salad on the chest of some of these four stars to see what the salad consists of. Most of it seems to be "Been there" and service ribbons. How many ribbons did EIsenhower have?
He probably had 12+, but did he wear them?
Good to read here once again; and, a respite from all this previous week.
We love Fullbore Fridays!
In the inter-war period, Carton de Wiart had an issue - two men in his command were seeing the same woman, causing a moral problem. He came up with a solution: he proposed a duel. When one man refused to even discuss the possibility of a duel, Carton de Wiart upbraided him as a coward who didn't deserve the affections of a woman and had him transferred out as LMF (lack of moral fibre). Problem solved.
A couple of rows of ribbons for things that matter. Not for showing up and doing your job.
Compare, for example, Ike vs. Milley.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/13/Allied_Commanders_after_Germany_Surrendered.jpg On the successful completion of his mission to end the war in Europe
https://www.ausa.org/sites/default/files/2023-09/Milley2341_U.S.%20Army%20photo%20by%20Henry%20Villarama.jpg For who knows what, exactly?
Note there is no "V" on his 4 Bronze Stars. he got the "showing up" "for achievement version"
I'm not sure why the Army gives those out as participation trophys - but it diminishes the award for the other services.
LOL, I have one and agree. here is wiki:
"The Bronze Star Medal (BSM) is a United States Armed Forces decoration awarded to members of the United States Armed Forces for either heroic achievement, heroic service, meritorious achievement, or meritorious service in a combat zone.
When the medal is awarded by the Army, Air Force, or Space Force for acts of valor in combat, the "V" device is authorized for wear on the medal. When the medal is awarded by the Navy, Marine Corps, or Coast Guard for acts of valor or meritorious service in combat, the Combat "V" is authorized for wear on the medal.?
My dad got his in the Philippines during the fighting in 1944, for charging and taking out a Japanese machine gun nest with his BAR. Killed at least 6 Japanese and was wounded during the episode. I wonder how his single Bronze Star stacks up against Milley's quadruple.
my simple test would be to ask Milley how many rounds he expended in each of the 4 incidents
when you look at Milley's rack locate the NDSM. 4th row from bottom, on left side. It and the other 11 below it, are showing up awards. The 8 above at least took somebody to cut and paste an award citation. compare and contrast with a General I used to work for:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_McCaffrey
- 2 DSC
- 2 SS
- 4 BSM with V
- 3 PH
- 2 Air Medals
Air Medals are not especially impressive (I have 4 of them).... For example, during the Vietnam war the AC-130 crews would get an air medal for every trip north of the DMZ. every flight they drew ground fire on, every 2nd night mission (which is what they mostly flew) and every 4th or 5th mission - even if it was cancelled before takeoff. One of my C130 instructors had 35 of them, from his AC-130 days in Vietnam
I got mine for not killing myself and the crew/passengers a couple of times in Hercs. One was a downgrade from a DFC, which I guess was kind of significant.
And PH's are kind of easy to get too (Vindman, for example, or Lurch Kerry): Any injury in combat zone that requires a medical officers treatment. Slip in the shower in Kabul? I got mine in Saudi Arabia in 1991, after a scud attack - got a little shrapnel scratch.
Milley's ARCOM and Achievement medals are not too impressive, nor is his end of service awards - the Defense Distinguished Service and Navy Distinguished Service awards.
I don't know where Barry got all his wounds but I know he had an ugly (as in missing most the muscle) scar on one of his forearms. 2 DSC's aren't showing up awards. One on each of 2 tours. First as an ARVN Advisor, second as a Company Cdr. Most highly decorated and youngest Army four-star General at retirement
Not throwing shade at McCaffrey at all: He's a warrior.
Milley is a poodle.
French yes
Miniature no
😂😂😂 thanks for that!!!
I've mentioned this before but still is germane. When I was a flag aide at NavSea in DC John Bulkeley came in to the outer office in his SDBs. At the time he was INSURV. His one row of ribbons was the MOH, NC, and Sea Service. I said "may I ask you a question?" and he said "Of course". "why only 3 ribbons?" and he said "well the MOH was presented by the president, the Navy Cross by the Secretary of War and I'm a sailor and sailors go to sea".
I brought him coffee and we chatted about his retirement and recall and how important an honest INSURV was to the Navy. He was a genuine hero.
Not sure the evac of Quezon trip merits the MoH, because he was ordered to do that, but the citation says: "For this and other exploits in the early days of the war, Bulkeley was awarded the Medal of Honor."
I'm believing that there were many other ballsy missions in the PI seas though. He was a combat leader of heroic proportions
What a Stud. Hopefully the Brits froze his sperm for future generations of leaders. Clearly they haven't used it yet...
Even the re-runs make great reading.
Several years ago, my wife and I toured the Submarine Museum in New London. One of the displays included the entire "fruit salad" of one of the submarine commanding officers in WWII. As I recall, seven ribbons, MoH, Navy Cross w/ Gold Star, Silver Star WWII Victory Medal, Pacific Campaign Medal and a couple more similar awards. Today our FOGOs are bemedaled from (in the words of a classmate) "from crotch to clavicle." If I were SECNAV, no award to Flags inside the DC beltway and no FOGO can wear more than three rows of ribbons. We need leaders not exhibitionists.
I have a hard back copy of his memoir on my summer reading stack. “The life & times of LT General Sir Adrian Carton De Wiart
Thank you - the incident I mentioned above is from that book and I have been trying to remember the title all afternoon (book is at home and I am at the coast with the mate). It doesn't appear to be available in the US - got my copy in London ages ago - but I'm sure anyone interested can order it from the usual vendors who ship overseas.
ABEbooks has lots of copies running in the $40-50 range, and a new paperback of some sort at around $20.
Between the wars Carton de Wiart lived for 15 years on an estate "found" for him by his WW1 ADC Prince Radziwill, in the midst of the Pripet Marshes and accessible only by a 40-mile boat journey, where he hunted capercailzie, blackgame, ducks, geeese, snipe, pigeons and woodcock. The Pripet Marshes, a vast wetland the size of all Minnesota, line the course of the Pripyat River from Brest-Litovsk to Chernobyl. The Ukraine-Belarus border parallels the Pripyat, and the marshes form an insuperable obstacle to any attack on Ukraine from the north, as the Russians rediscovered in 2022.
incidentally my grandpas estate was there to just few clicks offf Pinsk
Absolute stud. There is a reason at one time the sun never set on the British Empire.
Having myself some years ago lost an argument with a table saw about the relative value of attention and safety measures as contrasted with carelessness and stupidity, this line left an impression: "but not before he tore off some damaged fingers by himself."
“Tis only a flesh wound.” from Monty Python comes to mind. What an incredible, unstoppable human being.
He displayed uncommon valor & tenacity! If I'd served under him, I'd have gone for thirty years instead of nine.