Wow! My dad was a USAAF pilot in Europe in WWII. He wasn't talkative about it, had nightmares. I only know a little about it from what my mom told me after dad died in 2001.
One uncle was a corpsman with the 1st MarDiv on Guadalcanal. He was wounded, and would not talk about his experiences with my brothers and I. My father told us not to bring the subject up again. The men that have been through the hell of combat are usually not talkative about it.
Having been former infantry I always viewed the fly boys as being pampered and detached from the brutalization of war. Fortunately I was given the chance to crawl up and through a B-17 several years ago.
Having to step sideways to make it down the bomb bay cat walk, I discovered there was no cover or concealment when the Focke-Wulf's and 88's were trying to tear you apart @ 25,000 feet.
on the other hand, they had hot meals before and after as well as clean sheets. In combat, every job has pluses and minuses.
Me,
Standing soaked in rice paddies full of $hit in Vietnam, exhausted and hungry, I saw those big M48's roll by with ice chests, multiple cans of water and lawn chairs in the bustle rack. So when I got my RA commission, it was in Armor.
Mechanized Inf. and Armored Cavalry had the same advantages. We worked with them a few times. They are handy to have around, but they sure are big targets and really noisy.
Cav yes been there but a mech squad lacks water, chest chests and lawn chairs. It's a zoo in the back of an IFV or APC with a full squad and full ammo load. How far is one 5 gal can of water go for 11 guys? Less than 2 quarts. Not much. 10 gals cross a 4 man tank crew? 10 quarts.
As for drawing fire, that's a feature not a bug. enemy fire is enemy ammo limited. Having the enemy fire at my tank, means they are firing less at our infantry. Bullet magnets...
Thank you for devoting some time to the heroics of members of 8th Air Force. Until a few years ago,
many Americans had no real understanding of what these young Americans (most in their early 20’s)
lived through. Here is a well checked out point: 8th Air Force flying from the UK suffered more fatalities than the entire U.S. Marine Corps did throughout WWII. The Marines suffered terribly far more non-fatal casualties than did the 8 AF. But, each B-17 carried 10 Airmen, and typically lost all when a plane was shot down burning. My compliments to Hanks and Spielberg for mentioning this during the program.
Reminds of Robert Heinlein telling why he chose the Naval Academy over West Point. He said "I might drown, but I would sleep between clean sheets and have plenty of hot food."
I dont think many yet appreciate how grateful we should be for Hanks and Spielberg. They’ve done more than the Smithsonian (not a knock on the Smithsonian!) for posterity.
Many years ago, I was able to go inside B-17F 42-29782 at the Museum of Flight in Seattle. What I noticed was how small inside was. I was tall and thin when younger, but the interior of that plane was deceptively small.
OMG. The best thriller fiction writers could not conceive a more harrowing and unbelievable scenario to shock people. These guys did it for real, many over and over.
Fullbore, indeed.
Anyone eager to engage in wars over issues not firmly driven by a vital U.S. national security interest needs to understand the price of engagement in hostilities. Our warriors pay the price negotiated by politicians and Charlatans with no skin in the deadly game.
In WW2, often the most senior officers never heard a shot fired in anger. That describes Hap Arnold, who was a Colonel in WW1, in the rear with the beer, and later CG of the USAAC the USAAF.
There B-17s that lost part of the horizontal stabilizer that did RTB. I'm not sure what would have downed this AC in your pics. The only thing I can think of is that the control cables broke lose and they had no elevator control as a result.
Back in the mid-1970's, my manager and his deputy manager were both veterans of WWII. Thirty years earlier, the manager had been a B-17 pilot over Europe serving in the 8th Air Force; his deputy manager had been an infantryman in the 3rd Army clearing German cities and towns. Both were lucky to still be alive. Among themselves, both agreed that it was the former B-17 pilot who was the most lucky to still be alive after the German surrender.
Wow. Just... wow. Where do we find such men... (with a nod to The Bridges at Toko-Ri)
Don’t wonder, just thank God they lived.
Wow! My dad was a USAAF pilot in Europe in WWII. He wasn't talkative about it, had nightmares. I only know a little about it from what my mom told me after dad died in 2001.
One uncle was a corpsman with the 1st MarDiv on Guadalcanal. He was wounded, and would not talk about his experiences with my brothers and I. My father told us not to bring the subject up again. The men that have been through the hell of combat are usually not talkative about it.
Having been former infantry I always viewed the fly boys as being pampered and detached from the brutalization of war. Fortunately I was given the chance to crawl up and through a B-17 several years ago.
Having to step sideways to make it down the bomb bay cat walk, I discovered there was no cover or concealment when the Focke-Wulf's and 88's were trying to tear you apart @ 25,000 feet.
Humbling and sobering is an understatement.
on the other hand, they had hot meals before and after as well as clean sheets. In combat, every job has pluses and minuses.
Me,
Standing soaked in rice paddies full of $hit in Vietnam, exhausted and hungry, I saw those big M48's roll by with ice chests, multiple cans of water and lawn chairs in the bustle rack. So when I got my RA commission, it was in Armor.
I used to think the tubes had it easy, till I got dragooned one training cycle humping the base plate for an 81 mm. Inner and outer plate!
new guy gets the plate
Ain't nothing about a mortar that's easy to carry.
not many round parts
Mechanized Inf. and Armored Cavalry had the same advantages. We worked with them a few times. They are handy to have around, but they sure are big targets and really noisy.
As Willy or Joe once said;
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7f/a2/c6/7fa2c682f0ee85d2138d1d3e94aacb61.jpg
I used the same argument when Mother Green wanted me to shift to 2nd Tanks during the infantry drawdown during the 70’s.
Cav yes been there but a mech squad lacks water, chest chests and lawn chairs. It's a zoo in the back of an IFV or APC with a full squad and full ammo load. How far is one 5 gal can of water go for 11 guys? Less than 2 quarts. Not much. 10 gals cross a 4 man tank crew? 10 quarts.
As for drawing fire, that's a feature not a bug. enemy fire is enemy ammo limited. Having the enemy fire at my tank, means they are firing less at our infantry. Bullet magnets...
Thank you for devoting some time to the heroics of members of 8th Air Force. Until a few years ago,
many Americans had no real understanding of what these young Americans (most in their early 20’s)
lived through. Here is a well checked out point: 8th Air Force flying from the UK suffered more fatalities than the entire U.S. Marine Corps did throughout WWII. The Marines suffered terribly far more non-fatal casualties than did the 8 AF. But, each B-17 carried 10 Airmen, and typically lost all when a plane was shot down burning. My compliments to Hanks and Spielberg for mentioning this during the program.
Reminds of Robert Heinlein telling why he chose the Naval Academy over West Point. He said "I might drown, but I would sleep between clean sheets and have plenty of hot food."
Reverse of why I joined the Army; I can walk or run a lot further (farther?) than I can swim.
I dont think many yet appreciate how grateful we should be for Hanks and Spielberg. They’ve done more than the Smithsonian (not a knock on the Smithsonian!) for posterity.
🫡
Many years ago, I was able to go inside B-17F 42-29782 at the Museum of Flight in Seattle. What I noticed was how small inside was. I was tall and thin when younger, but the interior of that plane was deceptively small.
Look at getting into that tail position when you're 60 and get back to us.
I couldn’t get in there when I was in my late twenties!
OMG. The best thriller fiction writers could not conceive a more harrowing and unbelievable scenario to shock people. These guys did it for real, many over and over.
Fullbore, indeed.
Anyone eager to engage in wars over issues not firmly driven by a vital U.S. national security interest needs to understand the price of engagement in hostilities. Our warriors pay the price negotiated by politicians and Charlatans with no skin in the deadly game.
In WW2, often the most senior officers never heard a shot fired in anger. That describes Hap Arnold, who was a Colonel in WW1, in the rear with the beer, and later CG of the USAAC the USAAF.
And so damned close to the end of the war.
So many lost to these "Oh shit" moments.
https://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/tail3.htm
There B-17s that lost part of the horizontal stabilizer that did RTB. I'm not sure what would have downed this AC in your pics. The only thing I can think of is that the control cables broke lose and they had no elevator control as a result.
" or just one of those things in real life that if reproduced on film, no one would believe it."
Exactly. As we all know, truth is often stranger than fiction, especially in war.
In aviation circles this is known as a good landing, aka an "ass puckering come to Jesus moment."
Heroes all!
Brave men.
Another great story. Thanks for keeping this history alive.
Back in the mid-1970's, my manager and his deputy manager were both veterans of WWII. Thirty years earlier, the manager had been a B-17 pilot over Europe serving in the 8th Air Force; his deputy manager had been an infantryman in the 3rd Army clearing German cities and towns. Both were lucky to still be alive. Among themselves, both agreed that it was the former B-17 pilot who was the most lucky to still be alive after the German surrender.