It was another time with different people, made tougher by a harder life. Patriotism wasn't a bad word with half of the population. My dad ran away to get in WWI at 15. I can't imagine many young people lying to join the military like happened often in WWII and before. They had an easy pampered life and don't want to leave it. They don't read, so aren't exposed to stories of past heroes. Their heroes are rock stars.
I think even reading about it, the message doesn't get through. Not having been through difficulty (and by difficulty I don't mean, people made fun of you in high school), it's very hard to understand it. They probably read about WW1/2 stories as one reads about Roman times, or science fiction books.
That all encompassing word “they”… We still have hard men and women ready to take the fight to our future foes. I agree though that society as a whole seems much less prepared to step up. However, in a future where we face off against a near-peer opponent they might not have a choice (assuming it lasts more than a few weeks). It’s on us to grow children and grandchildren ready fly spitfires at 18.
Agreed. It always does a disservice to an individual to pigeonhole them with perceived faults and graces attributed to their generation. Someone who came of age in the mid-to latter-half of the Roaring 20's (with all the consumerism and lack of morals attributed to the time) would have been in their early- to mid- 30's come 1941. According to the age demographics listed on the Naval History and Heritage Command website, about 1-in-5 enlisted were 30 or older in WW2. The site doesn't list officer age demographics but I would expect that it similar or skewing slightly older.
In my parent's generation, 4 of 4 uncles on my dad's side fought in WWII. On mom's side it was 3 of 4 uncles. The 4th uncle was 4F and worked in an aircraft factory. In my generation, among my male kin 8 of 14 of us served(1 was 4F), plus 2 of 14 female cousins. Among my generation's children, only 2 of 19 have served.
Clearly, for a lot of us, the military has been a family business. But there’s a little math at work as well. During the height of World War II, the US military end strength was around 12 million. At the height of Vietnam probably around 3 million. When I was commissioned in the early 80s (Cold War ) it was just over 2 million. I think right now it’s about 1.2 million. Not everyone can be in the military any longer even if they want to. But it’s also very clear that with our nations obesity and opioid drug problem many don’t meet the requirements for enlistment.
On 9 February 1933, the Oxford Union held the "King and Country" debate that argued the motion, "That this House will under no circumstances fight for its King and country." The motion passed with 275 votes for the motion and 153 against it.
Geoffrey Wellum would have been 12, I guess, so much too young to be at Oxford and contaminated by the atmosphere there at the time. The Brits were fortunate to have him waiting in the wings. I suspect the US has a similar group of youngsters out there even now.
Let's hope we're not about to find out if there's another 'greatest generation' in hiding under all the current nonsense.
I’ve just finished reading ‘Crash Harrison’ by Deana J Driver, the biography of a Saskatchewan farm boy who joined the RCAF as soon as he was old enough and who piloted bombers over Germany - surviving four crashes along the way! Hence the nickname.
This still-spry, humble, veteran of 102 years still resides in Saskatoon and recently attended the AGM of the Canadian Aviation Historical Society. A wonderful example of the Greatest Generation.
Unbelievably Fullbore. Been a student of the Battle of Britain even since Papa Scoobs introduced me to the 1969 cinema classic as a kid - first read Wellum's memoir when I was a wee Middie and I still consider it one the most eloquent aviation memoirs that I've ever read - several years back I scored a win by picking up an autographed copy at an airshow. The BBC film adaption is quite good as well:
Wellum is prominently featured (along with many other WW2 heavies) is this exceptionally well done documentary on the Spitfire - few countries can trace their survival to such a majestic aircraft:
If you were English, Great Britain was worth fighting for back in those days. Spend a day walking about London today and get back to me on that observation.
Terrific posting. They don’t make them that way anymore. I remember my son and I meeting Wellum, Tom Neil and Mary Ellis (Auxiliary Pilot) back in 2017 at an event in Chichester. I had arranged for both of us to fly Spitfires that summer. Surreal indeed.
It was another time with different people, made tougher by a harder life. Patriotism wasn't a bad word with half of the population. My dad ran away to get in WWI at 15. I can't imagine many young people lying to join the military like happened often in WWII and before. They had an easy pampered life and don't want to leave it. They don't read, so aren't exposed to stories of past heroes. Their heroes are rock stars.
I think even reading about it, the message doesn't get through. Not having been through difficulty (and by difficulty I don't mean, people made fun of you in high school), it's very hard to understand it. They probably read about WW1/2 stories as one reads about Roman times, or science fiction books.
Hard times make great men.
Great men make great times.
Great times make weak men.
Weak men make hard times.
And so it goes.
That all encompassing word “they”… We still have hard men and women ready to take the fight to our future foes. I agree though that society as a whole seems much less prepared to step up. However, in a future where we face off against a near-peer opponent they might not have a choice (assuming it lasts more than a few weeks). It’s on us to grow children and grandchildren ready fly spitfires at 18.
Agreed. It always does a disservice to an individual to pigeonhole them with perceived faults and graces attributed to their generation. Someone who came of age in the mid-to latter-half of the Roaring 20's (with all the consumerism and lack of morals attributed to the time) would have been in their early- to mid- 30's come 1941. According to the age demographics listed on the Naval History and Heritage Command website, about 1-in-5 enlisted were 30 or older in WW2. The site doesn't list officer age demographics but I would expect that it similar or skewing slightly older.
In my parent's generation, 4 of 4 uncles on my dad's side fought in WWII. On mom's side it was 3 of 4 uncles. The 4th uncle was 4F and worked in an aircraft factory. In my generation, among my male kin 8 of 14 of us served(1 was 4F), plus 2 of 14 female cousins. Among my generation's children, only 2 of 19 have served.
Clearly, for a lot of us, the military has been a family business. But there’s a little math at work as well. During the height of World War II, the US military end strength was around 12 million. At the height of Vietnam probably around 3 million. When I was commissioned in the early 80s (Cold War ) it was just over 2 million. I think right now it’s about 1.2 million. Not everyone can be in the military any longer even if they want to. But it’s also very clear that with our nations obesity and opioid drug problem many don’t meet the requirements for enlistment.
Different king and country.
Spot on.
Not sure what he's so happy about, the guy on his left pissed it all away...
On 9 February 1933, the Oxford Union held the "King and Country" debate that argued the motion, "That this House will under no circumstances fight for its King and country." The motion passed with 275 votes for the motion and 153 against it.
Geoffrey Wellum would have been 12, I guess, so much too young to be at Oxford and contaminated by the atmosphere there at the time. The Brits were fortunate to have him waiting in the wings. I suspect the US has a similar group of youngsters out there even now.
Let's hope we're not about to find out if there's another 'greatest generation' in hiding under all the current nonsense.
Well done, young man. And God speed to your final glory.
As an FYI, as of July there was still one surviving BoB pilot.
FULLBORE!
Thanks for the memory.
What a life….
I’ve just finished reading ‘Crash Harrison’ by Deana J Driver, the biography of a Saskatchewan farm boy who joined the RCAF as soon as he was old enough and who piloted bombers over Germany - surviving four crashes along the way! Hence the nickname.
This still-spry, humble, veteran of 102 years still resides in Saskatoon and recently attended the AGM of the Canadian Aviation Historical Society. A wonderful example of the Greatest Generation.
Unbelievably Fullbore. Been a student of the Battle of Britain even since Papa Scoobs introduced me to the 1969 cinema classic as a kid - first read Wellum's memoir when I was a wee Middie and I still consider it one the most eloquent aviation memoirs that I've ever read - several years back I scored a win by picking up an autographed copy at an airshow. The BBC film adaption is quite good as well:
https://youtu.be/Xaopn2Nn8w8?si=i5YNS8_97vyuCbCK
Wellum is prominently featured (along with many other WW2 heavies) is this exceptionally well done documentary on the Spitfire - few countries can trace their survival to such a majestic aircraft:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZ1IdPxLLsU
If you were English, Great Britain was worth fighting for back in those days. Spend a day walking about London today and get back to me on that observation.
Sir Keir Starmer cracks down on the grandchildren of those heroes in favor of recent arrivals.
Met any 18 year olds recently who'd go fly a Spitfire to defend us? There are some around but sadly the number has been dwindllnig for quite some time
Terrific posting. They don’t make them that way anymore. I remember my son and I meeting Wellum, Tom Neil and Mary Ellis (Auxiliary Pilot) back in 2017 at an event in Chichester. I had arranged for both of us to fly Spitfires that summer. Surreal indeed.