My Chief Engineer on the USS Tattnall (DDG 19) had been the Gunnery Assistant on the Richard S. Edwards. He was in the director when the planes flew over and started dropping the mines and he realized what was happening. I can't remember if the CO had been briefed but the rest of the crew only knew of the gunfire mission but not why.
Got anyone who knows how to plan a field and how to rig the hardware?
A bunch of cruisers and destroyers with round barrel guns - 5 inch and above, not six-pounders (57mm)?
Finally do we have senior military and civilian "leadership" capable of making rational military decisions with appropriate consideration of intended and unintended consequences?
My scorecard say "none of the above" are in our toolbox these days.
Good thing "diversity is our strength" when we need it.
When I was a newly minted Weapons Officer coming out of DESTECH in 1967, I lusted after orders to a WESTPAC can who would do this stuff. Alas, Newport and the Med was my fate.
Just getting to this...I'll add some minor amplification as I was a young MN3 during this event...the Mk 36 "mines" were actually Destructor (DST) Mk 36 (converted Mk 82 Bombs) and used magnetic-seismic influence to detect passing ships when planted in water. They were land capable as well. To aid with post-op mine clearance, the Mk 52 Mod 2 mines (magnetic only) were modified by Minemen to self-destruct instead of simply going dead to ensure our AMCM and EOD clearance efforts had no concerns about finding a mine case and concerns that it may be alive. This was not the first use of mines against the North. There was extensive mining (with DSTs) in the Delta and elsewhere prior to this operation, some events may even remain classified. Prior to Operation Pocket Money, DST's had only a very sensitive magnet detection capability. They were quickly upgraded to include seismic after a series of sun-spots set them off.
Coast Guard cutters also did a lot of NGFS during Vietnam. 5" from the large cutters and 81mm mortar fire from the 82 foot cutters and of course .50 caliber up close and personal.
"It was on this point that the Johnson administration made one of the more egregious errors of Rolling Thunder. It selected the hortatory admonishment to minimize civilian casualties as the campaign standard, rather than the law of war prohibition of excessive collateral civilian casualties. Although other reasons were cited on occasion, the buffer zones around Hanoi and Haiphong were placed there primarily to reduce to an absolute minimum civilian casualties among the enemy population."
Why wasn’t a blockade placed around North Vietnam as early as 1964 or 1965? What is the point of sea power if it is not used?
My Chief Engineer on the USS Tattnall (DDG 19) had been the Gunnery Assistant on the Richard S. Edwards. He was in the director when the planes flew over and started dropping the mines and he realized what was happening. I can't remember if the CO had been briefed but the rest of the crew only knew of the gunfire mission but not why.
Sal! Great FBF post! Steady as she goes!
Learn something new every day.
https://www.colorado.edu/today/2018/11/12/1972-solar-storm-triggered-vietnam-war-mystery
A 1972 solar storm triggered a Vietnam War mystery
Detailed mining plan, circa 1968...
https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/sites/default/files/documents/rrzrcf-itprv/07.pdf
Merely announcing a blockade can be enough to discourage ships from entering a port.
You can run a blockade with ships as well as mines.
ok, most of my mine questions have been answered. How about a ship refit question or two.
a CL like CL-91 starts with
12 six inch
12 five inch
about 48 mixed 40mm and 20mm
becomes CL5 with
3 six inch
2 five inch
1 Twin rail Talos
losses a bunch of surface firepower and grows the crew by 15%
1. WTF?
2. Why did they have to gut the guns?
3. what was the new crew doing since they weren't shooting?
Ships of a navy well led. Well supported. Well loved. Before a “gold anchor”. God speed.
Amazing.
Could we do this today?
Got anything to haul mines?
Got mines?
Got anyone who knows how to plan a field and how to rig the hardware?
A bunch of cruisers and destroyers with round barrel guns - 5 inch and above, not six-pounders (57mm)?
Finally do we have senior military and civilian "leadership" capable of making rational military decisions with appropriate consideration of intended and unintended consequences?
My scorecard say "none of the above" are in our toolbox these days.
Good thing "diversity is our strength" when we need it.
When I was a newly minted Weapons Officer coming out of DESTECH in 1967, I lusted after orders to a WESTPAC can who would do this stuff. Alas, Newport and the Med was my fate.
Just getting to this...I'll add some minor amplification as I was a young MN3 during this event...the Mk 36 "mines" were actually Destructor (DST) Mk 36 (converted Mk 82 Bombs) and used magnetic-seismic influence to detect passing ships when planted in water. They were land capable as well. To aid with post-op mine clearance, the Mk 52 Mod 2 mines (magnetic only) were modified by Minemen to self-destruct instead of simply going dead to ensure our AMCM and EOD clearance efforts had no concerns about finding a mine case and concerns that it may be alive. This was not the first use of mines against the North. There was extensive mining (with DSTs) in the Delta and elsewhere prior to this operation, some events may even remain classified. Prior to Operation Pocket Money, DST's had only a very sensitive magnet detection capability. They were quickly upgraded to include seismic after a series of sun-spots set them off.
Coast Guard cutters also did a lot of NGFS during Vietnam. 5" from the large cutters and 81mm mortar fire from the 82 foot cutters and of course .50 caliber up close and personal.
Rummaging about, found this must read...
https://biotech.law.lsu.edu/cases/nat-sec/Vietnam/Rolling-Thunder-and-the-Law-of-War.html#:~:text=Rolling%20Thunder%20was%20one%20of,those%20sent%20forth%20to%20battle
"It was on this point that the Johnson administration made one of the more egregious errors of Rolling Thunder. It selected the hortatory admonishment to minimize civilian casualties as the campaign standard, rather than the law of war prohibition of excessive collateral civilian casualties. Although other reasons were cited on occasion, the buffer zones around Hanoi and Haiphong were placed there primarily to reduce to an absolute minimum civilian casualties among the enemy population."
Who wants to tell Adm Kirby?