CDR Sal, this is a tough one to process. Essentially, if not for the Japanese records, we'd have little or no information regarding this example of bravery in the face of, well, hopeless odds. Not sunk with all hands, BUT, the survivors, as was all too often the case, perished as Japanese prisoners of war. So, no survivors. Genuinely appreciate you telling the tale of their last stand, so all of us who never knew about USS Edsall will remember their devotion to duty and the nation. May they all rest in peace.
My faith in the perfumed princes and princesses of the the Potomac is such that I will put my hopes for the proper awards be finally be given to the CO and crew of EDSALL next to the Sgt. Peralta file. Both deserve better from the country they fought and died for. Second to the MoH and PUC awards. How about a new NIX and/or EDSALL DDG's in the fleet at least?
I wholeheartedly concur with the PUC, and a strong case could be made for MoH with the exception that the account is solely based on the enemy's testimony - I believe the Brits have awarded a couple of VCs based on such evidence but I'm not sure if we have. There's also the unanswerable question if it was Nix - and not somebody else (XO?) - fighting the ship throughout the duration of the action. Regardless of the gongs, the men of Edsall now have known resting place and deserve to be remembered.
Thanks for pointing out the pursuit jockeys - you beat me to it. Been doing some research on those poor lads which adds an additional layer of tragedy to the Edsall saga; 31 young, freshly trained pilots - the equivalent of at least 2 squadrons' worth of manpower - wiped out before they could even get into the fight. Who knows what impact they could have made if they'd made it to Java and bolstered the faltering Allied defenses? As a former brown shoe who used to gleefully sleep through shipboard GQ drills (gotta maintain crew rest!), I've pondered what their last moments must have been like - I hope they also went down fighting while supporting Edsall's crew to the best of their abilities.
I was in error above, the Edsall was bound for Tjilatjap with the pilots to man the surviving P-40s in theater.
But it's almost certain she altered course to the Pecos' posit.
The story of the Pecos is another tragedy. The Whipple did reach the sinking site, and picked up 200 of the 600 plus souls...Langley survivors along with her crew...but the Whipple had to leave 400 in the water behind due to a sub threat.
The title of Full Bore is most appropriate. I did not know this story. Thanks again for an enjoyable FbF reading. The Edsall story is a mini version of the Battle of Samar. Another great “tin can” tale!
A destroyer, against 2 battleships and 2 heavy cruisers. Four 4in guns against sixteen 14in guns, sixteen ~7.8in guns, 30 6in guns, thirty-two 5in guns. There was no chance in hell this would have ended any way other than losing, and yet they fought bravely and managed to actually survive the naval battle, only to be sunk by planes. Full bore, 110%!
Just a little aside. Postwar when graves were being exhumed as part of war crimes trials some Edsall survivors were found who had been beheaded. Not sure anyone was prosecuted for war crimes.
Survivors taken aboard both the Tone and Chokai there and elsewhere were often executed aboard, and the brutality of the Japanese towards prisoners in the East Indies in that phase of the war was particularly intense.
A note and aside, the William Holden character in the movie Bridge on the River Kwai masquerades as a surviving officer off the Houston as part of the story line. Her fate wasn't really known until the end of the war...
I've moonlighted assisting the Defense POW/MIA Accounting Agency (DPAA) with some of their identification efforts - the Army Graves Registration Services (AGRS) casefiles make for some somber reading.
I found a book about another group of prisoners (Shobun, A Forgotten War Crime in the Pacific) in my father's collection after he passed; it was very interesting.
Yup - it's a good (albeit harrowing) read. Grandpa Scoobs (the brownshoe) was on one of the early raids against Chichi Jima in the Bonins and watched his buddy's Helldiver get hit by AA and his buddy bail out over the harbor. Every gunner within range opened up and shredded the parachute - perhaps a merciful end considering the fate of those who survived to be captured by the locals...
Fullbore to the Nth degree! This is a saga I've known since first reading Grandpa Scoobs' (the blackshoe) copy of USNI's Destroyer Operations in World War Two as a kid. He learned his trade as a destroyerman aboard several four-pipers in the Depression era navy and later pulled an Asiatic Fleet tour as XO of PIDGEON ASR-6; he PCSed stateside in 1940, but PIDGEON and her crew (including presumably his relief) weren't as fortunate. Kudos to the Aussies for pulling off this impressive deep sea discovery.
Full bore all the way. Professionals doing their duty despite overwhelming odds. Today's Navy could profit from an understanding of their dedication and courage.
It was great to see the update on USS Edsall this week. https://taskandpurpose.com/history/uss-edsall-found-ww2/
Fairly certain I first read about her in "The Fleet the Gods Forgot", but it's been a few years and I need to pick up that book again.
CDR Sal, this is a tough one to process. Essentially, if not for the Japanese records, we'd have little or no information regarding this example of bravery in the face of, well, hopeless odds. Not sunk with all hands, BUT, the survivors, as was all too often the case, perished as Japanese prisoners of war. So, no survivors. Genuinely appreciate you telling the tale of their last stand, so all of us who never knew about USS Edsall will remember their devotion to duty and the nation. May they all rest in peace.
Nix deserves the MoH, the crew the PUC. At least.
Full Bore squared.
Agreed. My first thought was Navy Cross for Nix, but I'd buy the MoH argument. About as above and beyond as it gets.
My faith in the perfumed princes and princesses of the the Potomac is such that I will put my hopes for the proper awards be finally be given to the CO and crew of EDSALL next to the Sgt. Peralta file. Both deserve better from the country they fought and died for. Second to the MoH and PUC awards. How about a new NIX and/or EDSALL DDG's in the fleet at least?
I wholeheartedly concur with the PUC, and a strong case could be made for MoH with the exception that the account is solely based on the enemy's testimony - I believe the Brits have awarded a couple of VCs based on such evidence but I'm not sure if we have. There's also the unanswerable question if it was Nix - and not somebody else (XO?) - fighting the ship throughout the duration of the action. Regardless of the gongs, the men of Edsall now have known resting place and deserve to be remembered.
Interesting!
This still from some (very had to find) footage shot from one of the cruisers has to be one of the most chilling from WWII...
Also, don't forget the 40 some odd USAAF people (mostly P-40 pilots) she had taken off the Langley who were lost as well.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/47/USS_Edsall_%28DD-219%29_under_fire_and_sinking_on_1_March_1942_%2880-G-178997%29.jpg/1024px-USS_Edsall_%28DD-219%29_under_fire_and_sinking_on_1_March_1942_%2880-G-178997%29.jpg
Thanks for pointing out the pursuit jockeys - you beat me to it. Been doing some research on those poor lads which adds an additional layer of tragedy to the Edsall saga; 31 young, freshly trained pilots - the equivalent of at least 2 squadrons' worth of manpower - wiped out before they could even get into the fight. Who knows what impact they could have made if they'd made it to Java and bolstered the faltering Allied defenses? As a former brown shoe who used to gleefully sleep through shipboard GQ drills (gotta maintain crew rest!), I've pondered what their last moments must have been like - I hope they also went down fighting while supporting Edsall's crew to the best of their abilities.
Stories that will never be known.
I was in error above, the Edsall was bound for Tjilatjap with the pilots to man the surviving P-40s in theater.
But it's almost certain she altered course to the Pecos' posit.
The story of the Pecos is another tragedy. The Whipple did reach the sinking site, and picked up 200 of the 600 plus souls...Langley survivors along with her crew...but the Whipple had to leave 400 in the water behind due to a sub threat.
The title of Full Bore is most appropriate. I did not know this story. Thanks again for an enjoyable FbF reading. The Edsall story is a mini version of the Battle of Samar. Another great “tin can” tale!
" Commanded by Lieutenant (or LCDR depending on the source)"
I know you'll love this............howzabout .......... CDR!
4" guns......cajones 18"
Sal, two minor comments:
1 shouldn't the title be: "If you can't run......"
2. you say: "Some of you may have served with his father, Captain Walter Collier Nix, USN (Ret). USNA 54'". Perhaps you mean "with his son"
What makes this story such an exceptional Fullbore is that the she was actually clear of the threat and headed to Australia.!!!
But her radiomen heard a weak distress call from the Pecos which had also been hammered by the Kido Butai.
https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/1969/december/pecos-died-hard
Instead of keeping silent and continuing to safety, Lt. Nix turned to help her, and ran smack into the Japanese fleet.
A destroyer, against 2 battleships and 2 heavy cruisers. Four 4in guns against sixteen 14in guns, sixteen ~7.8in guns, 30 6in guns, thirty-two 5in guns. There was no chance in hell this would have ended any way other than losing, and yet they fought bravely and managed to actually survive the naval battle, only to be sunk by planes. Full bore, 110%!
Nagumo was livid about the poor performance of his cruisers.
Look how sharp those uniforms look. Every man jack looked excellent.
Shame we lost the technology to make handsome military uniforms.
It's unfortunate, but the author of the book launched into an anti-Bush screed.
It's still worth the read for the good info about the Edsall, but be forewarned.
Why? What in the name of all that is holy does Bush have to do with this story?
So browsing the Kindle it doesn't appear to be the book.
I purchased the hard copy in 2012, and was getting into the Asiatic story. Perhaps I am remembering another reference.
Mega Apologies!
Probably the best account available focused on Edsall; I wouldn't be surprised if an updated version is released in the near future: https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Blood-Donald-Kehn-ebook/dp/B004NNUX70
Sal - quick plug for Nix - he was USNA Class of '30 - not '28. DD command at the ripe old age of 33! Can only wonder where his career would have gone had Edsall made it to safety: https://usnamemorialhall.org/index.php/JOSHUA_J._NIX,_LCDR,_USN
Just a little aside. Postwar when graves were being exhumed as part of war crimes trials some Edsall survivors were found who had been beheaded. Not sure anyone was prosecuted for war crimes.
Survivors taken aboard both the Tone and Chokai there and elsewhere were often executed aboard, and the brutality of the Japanese towards prisoners in the East Indies in that phase of the war was particularly intense.
A note and aside, the William Holden character in the movie Bridge on the River Kwai masquerades as a surviving officer off the Houston as part of the story line. Her fate wasn't really known until the end of the war...
https://youtu.be/PDVjulgOjrE?si=aDIJthb4MozqsSpI
I've moonlighted assisting the Defense POW/MIA Accounting Agency (DPAA) with some of their identification efforts - the Army Graves Registration Services (AGRS) casefiles make for some somber reading.
I found a book about another group of prisoners (Shobun, A Forgotten War Crime in the Pacific) in my father's collection after he passed; it was very interesting.
https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/1213465
Yup - it's a good (albeit harrowing) read. Grandpa Scoobs (the brownshoe) was on one of the early raids against Chichi Jima in the Bonins and watched his buddy's Helldiver get hit by AA and his buddy bail out over the harbor. Every gunner within range opened up and shredded the parachute - perhaps a merciful end considering the fate of those who survived to be captured by the locals...
Fullbore to the Nth degree! This is a saga I've known since first reading Grandpa Scoobs' (the blackshoe) copy of USNI's Destroyer Operations in World War Two as a kid. He learned his trade as a destroyerman aboard several four-pipers in the Depression era navy and later pulled an Asiatic Fleet tour as XO of PIDGEON ASR-6; he PCSed stateside in 1940, but PIDGEON and her crew (including presumably his relief) weren't as fortunate. Kudos to the Aussies for pulling off this impressive deep sea discovery.
Full bore all the way. Professionals doing their duty despite overwhelming odds. Today's Navy could profit from an understanding of their dedication and courage.
Hard to watch but there's actually Japanese combat film footage of Edsall's last moments:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVqtvs3E3pw