They probably could have sortied a couple of big deck amphibs to the region by now and loaded all the people into the troop compartments. Plenty of room on LPD's, LPH's, etc.
Concur all. Besides escorting the cruise ship, I would hope that we are significantly augmenting her internal security with armed US forces. The bad guys like to infiltrate and then murder, lest we forget.
I want to see how TSA agents at the boarding gate handle the gripes from shrill Karen's remonstrating about a 22kg baggage limit, what constitutes "carry-on"and why so small because it ain't going in some overhead baggage compartment and how come Fifi, my toy poodle therapy dog, is getting the M.S. St. Louis treatment? Am very sure that any promissory notes signed won't be pursued by bill collectors. There's an election in 2024. That'd just be a further black eye to TPTB in Washington. Passengers should stiff .gov. Am wondering too if a class action lawsuit will be filed on behalf of the evacuees for Washington's failure to see the Hamas attack in advance and failure to provide security for the taxi ride from their bunkers to the cruise ship in Haifa. Still kind of sticks in my craw that kin of 911 victims got millions in settlements from a generous Congress while spouses and children of the military men who died in the 20 year GWoT got just SBP, SGLI, a small death gratuity and a tombstone. That's begrudging nothing to the 911 folks. Just shows you how undervalued and unappreciated the heavy lifters are.
Heh. Well, the agents at the boarding gates are going to be Israeli, so somehow I suspect that the Karens (and FiFi) will not be getting a lot of sympathy :-)
I do not think that a class action lawsuit against the government for failure to foresee will win (not least of which is because of sovereign immunity).
If there is to be any compensation (which probably won't happen), it will probably be as a regulatory payout or private bill in Congress, not a lawsuit claim.
I’d argue putting a CSG offshore is a monument to national capability; not a monument to national will. USING the CSG is the latter.
It amazes that the West is so flaccid in the face of this atrocity. It quite obviously is an action by a rising anti-Western ideology and power that is both a test of America’s national will and a start of the most serious attack on liberty since 1945.
Because our response will be other than the historically-appropriate response to a power able, willing and eager to attack the allies of an adversary power - annihilating the attacker - Iran and Islam will continue and increase their attacks on a West unwilling - not unable, but choosing not to - respond.
The proper - historical - response to this attack on Israel is the same as the proper - historical - response should have been to 9/11. The West ROSE by killing its enemies.
Iran should be nuked now; KSA should’ve been nuked on 9/12.
If we won’t kill our enemies, we aren’t defending our Darwinian niche; it will be taken from us. That’s what Iran is starting now.
The question is, as it has been since 26 June 1950: Why do we care more about the lives of our enemies than we do about the lives of our citizens?
Our Darwinian niche has been in flux for more than a decade. I have heard that some think defending it will be put on hold until a committee defines our niche, that being the fiscally and morally prudent thing. They say that step 1 should be to appoint a committee to recommend a membership that reflects the diversity of our great democracy and those target values which most firmly embrace the wellbeing of Gaia and xer children. Got no bone to pick with you, Scip, but can't we let the decisions about who needs killing be left to the committee? Further, is there any point in giving Iran and Gaza pallets of cash for civil engineering projects to build schools, roads, drainage, zoos, skateboard parks, basketball courts, an energy grid and theme parks based on the Koran just to bomb the Hell out of it?
Zounds! Recipe for disaster. How would Islamo-terrorists be able to sit in the same room with woke UNster's and worldly WEFfers? Don't you know how crazy they can get when their blood is up? Sure, the Terrs can swallow their bile if they have to...that bile can be Halal and therefore the swallowing is permitted if I have read the religious literature correctly. Taqiya and all that. But why not do it the normal way? Let the Western elites who have the master copy of the blueprint for the NWO and best know the goals that get them to the end game form the committee on their own. My ancestors handled snakes in Appalachia. Trust me. (Speaking of "halal"...read years ago a fatwa by Imam Khomeini, I think, wherein he said it was wrong to sell the meat of a goat that had been defiled by an act of human lust to anyone in your own village, but permissible to sell it in a village farther away. This shows us that some religious people possess flexibility in their thinking, which leads me to believe that we can all get along if we want to. I raised goats as a hobby for 20 years, gave them away, sold a few cheap, never ate one.)
I'm thinking of goats since my horses have gotten old now one is 26 the other 23 and are not riding mounts for any length of time, and I am getting too old to ride LOL, left knee is getting arthroscopic surgery next month, thinking of goats to keep the pasture mowed down biologically.
Worldwide, goats are known as the poor man's cattle. They are easy keepers, great at brush control. The nanny goats will reproduce usually twice a year, 2 kids each time. The hardiest goats are generic "woods goats" or Boers. Dairy goats are prone to be bad mothers. I used to keep around 20 on two 1 acre pastures plus another acre I had fenced in the woods. Used to supplement them with bagged corn and sweet feed. There can be a good market for them with first generation Africans, Arabs and Asians. Used to give them away, sell them really cheap or donate them for FFA and 4-H projects.
Boers sounds like the ones for me. Part of my pasture is wooded pine, saw briars and hard woods fenced in. The Billy Goat my Grandson had was a very determined head but specialist.
Taking on his Donkey and sometimes a threatening post.
I have over ten acres less than twenty, seven acres are pasture split into a large corral, a center and a front with the woods in the rear the rest is woods with bridle trails cut through it.
Rural country in a poor county there are deer trails, across the property and a small spring and wet weather pond.
I think I will go with the grandson and pick out a couple of goats.
We're also taking flak for freedom, prosperity, liberty and eating beef, So what?
I also think that, had we nuked Pyongyang in 1950, the world was much more attuned to the reality of war, mass deaths and the necessity sometimes, thereof. We weren't dealing with a buncha coddled losers, but with men, women, families, who had just been through the crucible of real war and understood that sometimes you just need to kill bad guys. IOW, I don't think worldwide condemnation would've been then what it would be now.
See? That’s the problem. Killing 2M Koreans or 2M Vietnamese conventionally - no problem. Killing maybe 100K of them and no Americans and ending the issue you find distasteful. I’ll go with Ike. You may remember hearing of him. He & MacArthur were the LAST American General Officers to win their wars. His foreign & defense policy, as President was nicknamed “massive retaliation.” No one called him.
If the CMEO's "busy", I figure it would fall to me as a new Chief to run Diversity training.
"Before we go back to work, Millington wants us to have Diversity Training. Here's the important terms on this sheet, then pass around the 3500 to say we did it."
The 26 MEU SOC is off shore Kuwait they recalled the 6th Mars unknown Bn afloat from a training exercise and they may or may not be transiting to the Med.
There should be another MEU in the Med.
What will possibly be needed is most likely on Air Alert to fly out of CLNC via Aircraft military or chartered civilian As Needed.
The 1973 Yom Kippur war saw my BLT on a CARG ashore at Vieques placed on air alert to fly out of the nearest USAF or Navy air base to the Arena. And to also prepare to repulse any Soviet/Cuban invasion of GITMO.
I think we can agree our current crop of leadership is incompetent while still acknowledging that Putin is JUST as incompetent. Putin's only difference is that he is far more bloodthirsty in his incompetence.
But sure, tell me again about his brilliant plan to capture Ukraine in a week.
Heck, this man leaves incompetent's in charge of his defense complex specifically because he can't afford to have anyone competent competing with him for popular support.
But wait, I know, it's all 3D chess, and Putin's grand plan will reveal itself any-day, haha, shame on all of us for doubting.
Actually, the plan was to capture Kiev in three days, which is why the tanks had three days of food and dress uniforms on board. Putin scared the piss out of his intel people, and they told him what he wanted to hear, which was not, alas, the truth. ”Conducting sudden, top-secret special operations is the main pattern of Russian President Vladimir Putin’s behavior. As a former chekist [security official], he always wants to catch everyone off-guard, in order to frighten them and to impress on them that he can do whatever he wants. We witnessed this once again during the emergency meeting of the Security Council three days before the war. The stammering of foreign intelligence head Sergei Naryshkin, the confusion of deputy Kremlin administration head Dmitry Kozak, and the worried face of Moscow mayor Sergei Sobyanin were evidence enough. The most influential people in Russia sat before Putin like schoolchildren before a teacher who had suddenly announced an exam. And this meeting wasn’t even about a war — they were only discussing the recognition of the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Luhansk “people’s republics.” By the outbreak of the war, the Russian political space had been wiped clean to the extent that is possible. In the depths of their souls, officials and legislators may disagree with the decisions of their leaders — but only in the depths of their souls. There are very few left who can contradict him out loud, directly to his face. The official comments high-ranking officials are making during the war are uniform and echo what President Putin said when the war was declared: "Russia was left with no other choice," "our army is liberating the Ukrainian people from the oppression of nationalists," and so on." https://streamfortyseven.substack.com/p/fsb-whistleblower-report-war-in-ukraine Some of the people from the Fifth Directorate who were in on the above-cited report ended up in the basement of the Lubyanka...
No. The massing of troop towards Kiev and the surprised rush to find the (non-existent) stores of food and supplies supposedly left by pro-Kremlin agents strongly suggests Kiev was the real target. The lightly armed airborne attack was daring but foolhardy if there was a serious suspicion of resistance. Probably Russian intelligence was surprised at the fact that rear units also opposed the Kremlin, not just the supposed anti-Russian elements at the front.
The conduct after the first disastrous month is only possible because Russia has a rail network and the awareness that Kiev is firmly in the hands of anti-Kremlin forces.
And he is the best argument by the Globalists for why they should rule.
I've been to Moscow and it was a profoundly depressing city. I do not have any love for the current leadership but Putin's culture of fakery is not the answer.
Have you considered moving to a city run by unaccountable totalitarians as a practice run for living under the WEF? I'd think Pyongyang would be right up your alley. I also assume you have no children, at least none whose future you give a shit about, right? Can I order you some insects to eat off of Amazon?
I don't think Russia was behind this attack. However, they did nothing to stop it. I do not believe Iran would have given HAMAS the green light without getting at least tacit approval from Moscow and Beijing. Putin may be angry with Netanyahu for supporting Ukraine despite his own efforts at cordial relations. On the other Netanyahu had no choice but to do whatever Biden demanded. That's my take. We need a Tallyrand or a Palmerston and all we have is a Blinken and a Sullivan.
Hezbollah has capability and intent to use land based cruise missiles against naval targets. They lack the opportunity. I wonder how loose ADC will be with ROE and FRAGO for ATO. Deconfliction will be “interesting”. No one wants another Liberty incident either.
I’m curious if we see IRGCN tactics and doctrine used by Hezbollah.
Ward Carroll mentioned that Ike was supposed to transit the Suez to the 5th's op area. I'm not sure confined waters for a transit would be good right now. I suspect there are too many taking lessons from the Ukraine.
The evac ship would be less lightly protected and closer to shore, therefore an easier target. Also, with all of the news bubbas covering the evacuation, a much more visible massacre.
If the Ford is over the hump and the Navy is now confident in its abilities, we should move to a new build strategy and ditch the RCOHs for a 10 new carrier fleet. Make Ford's 5-7 and 8-10 3 ship block buys every 8 years. Launch a ship every 32 months. One pre-req for that would be building 2 ships in graving dock 12 at the same time. This is already happening with Enterprise and Dorris Miller.
I still think we should be building light carriers (CVL, based on the design of the America Class LHA, but without the Marine centric capabilities and optimized as a light carrier for F-35B ops) at a rate of 2-1 for the CVN's
Not arguing against CVN's, but we could build and equip CVL's at a rate of 3 to 1 for same price, while generating a higher sortie rate and having far more distributed ops.
That would also require the Navy and Marines to invest in more F-35B squadrons in addition to C's. I would field those CVL's with 2 squadrons of F-35B's each, 1 each from USN and USMC, and while the planes would be the same, the focus for each squadron would be different, with USMC owning the strike and CAS package and USN owning the CAP and Counter Air package.
The LHA as the basis for a light carrier is a terrible idea. Too slow and inefficient layout. Should we have a CVL … yes but give it 30kts, 2 Cats and the ability to care a few E2Cs.
This might be the time to go Americanize someone else's design. Probably Italian or Japanese. Trick is Catobar is going to mean those options get tossed and you live with a variant of the UK carriers. That will be too expensive to be worth it. Just build more CVNs and reintroduce RCOH at some point.
Agree... Without AEW or tanking capability, and saddled with the short legged variant F-35- seems like a waste of a ship and money. IMHO, the LHA should be built to haul Marines, or not at all.
The carrier feasibility studies about smaller carriers fir decades always say that a big deck carrier is the best and most bang for the buck. Sure, we can posit that those studies by the Navy were answers waiting for a question. But if there are any new CV iterations being considered, Id vote for a conventional catobar CV that lands between the Midway and Forestall. Gives you almost the full airwing capacity of a CVN, but on a cheaper platform that can be built in more yards. Maybe someone on the west coast could even step up and jump in. I could get behind that. But a "Lightning Carrier"... Not one bit.
The idea has merit, but your execution is flawed. Conventional powered CV, with angled decks that can operate CATOBAR aircraft would be better. Instead of F-35B, F-18 E/F and maybe an F-35C squadron. E-2s CODs and some helos would round up the airwing.
that's an entire new ship, so good luck getting that out of fleet in less than a decade.
We are building America's right now, so modifying the design to build additional hulls as CVL would be far cheaper and faster.
As pointed out above, I am NOT suggesting we re-purpose the LHA construction line, I am suggesting we build these new CVL hulls in addition to the already programed LHA's, by forgoing every other CVN purchase in favor of 3 CVL's
LHAs are a poor design to build a CVL from. The design changes would probably be as time consuming as a new design, except you still end up with a suboptimal design. Dusting off Essex class blueprints, including upgrades, would probably provide a better product.
Yeah, I am all for swapping over from LHA to CVL with an evolving design. First, keep the flight deck changes from LHA-8 but ditch the well deck. Then start making it more carrier and less amphib by working on the flat bottom and adding some propulsion to get the speed up. Swap the gas turbines for LM2500+G4 or MT30s. Retain some ability to embark Marines. Look to the Italian carriers for inspiration more than the Japanese.
Every time I post this idea, I get replies like yours.
I wish you would re-read my post. I am NOT suggesting we use the LHA's for this purpose.
I am suggesting we use the DESIGN of the LHA's to develop a NEW ship class, the CVL.
Nothing in my post or idea discusses changing the mission of the LHA's, or reducing their number.
I am suggesting that we REDUCE the number of CVN we buy, and so instead of 2 CVN, we would get 1 CVN and 3 CVL, twice the hulls, slightly better sortie rate, slightly more overall manning numbers, much greater distribution of the fleets lethality and less overall vulnerability to losing our "King" pieces.
I replied as a question - not a criticism. I understood what you meant I just was not being clear in my reply. So I'll attempt again. Since we are struggling with how many big gators we should float, it would seem prudent that if we are going to continue to float LHAs, that they should be equipped to perform the "assault" mission given that they're likely to be operating in very heavily contested/high threat environment. As for the CVL's, wouldn't have a clue as to what that configuration would look like or whether the math works out to make such an investment.
What we should be doing is encouraging allies with the technical competence to do so: Taiwan comes immediately to mind, as does SKOR, to build their own deterrence. No reason exists for American taxpayers to continue the nonsense of huge conventional forces for wars that are none of our business (Kuwait, Iraq, Ukraine), wars we demand to fight but refuse to win. Others have the technical and budgetary capacity to defend themselves and should be allowed & encouraged to do so.
I've never seen a report that the ammo elevator and cat issues were fully addressed, not sure on arresting gear. That was a question I had about using her
I wondered that myself. Last public release of info showed the EMALS and AAG were only achieving about 20% of the failure rate standards. So while Ford might stay after Ike appears (great visuals, photo op etc)- I imagine Ike is absolutely hauling a** to get there, so that the USN will actually have a fully functional carrier off Israel if its needed...
Ill hafta look!! Ive seen some recent vids giving some pretty positive reveiws. But id really like to see the actual numbers and performance stats the ship is generating now!! I feel that if the numbers were great, they wouldnt be classified...
(check out the number of A-3s aboard the Indy. she embarked18... also ponder the unrefueled radius of those 3 CVW's in comparison to CVW-8 aboard the Ford today...)
I'm not saying the air wing is ideal. That is a whole other topic. I also didn't know anyone crammed 18 A3s aboard. I thought they had maxed out early at 10.
The normal complement then (pic taken Nov. 1960 for the Jan 61 NavAir News celebrating 50 years of Naval Aviation) was 12 on the Forrestals. You can see 8 -VAH-9- on deck of the Sara.
Indy landed her F-8s at Rota so the extra 6 could fit.
Go back and look at the LCS 1 ships' face book pages from 5 or so years ago then tell us that those face book pages are indicative of anything measurable.
Agreed, they aren't. And they are. There is usually very little interesting to see. Just daily life, certifications. Very little air ops or anything to do with a mission module. Little live fire. Lots of playing with small arms.
Photos of the Ford landing area show a massive silhouette of a super hornet on the landing area. Ferrous anomalies and magnetic resonance is suspect. What is happening to the aircraft graphite and composite materials? NDI must be interesting.
I would have hoped they fixed it before finishing the second Ford-Class, the USS John F. Kennedy (CVN-79). Not sure they did. A seemingly insurmountable problem is the lack of wing clearance on CAT-4, preventing the launch of fully loaded aircraft (WTF?)
Then there are the elevators....
So, we have an $11-billion plus ship or three, that cannot load weapons quickly, that cannot launch when a cat is broken, and even when they are not are not MICAP on 25% of the cats.
That's the first I'd heard of the wing clearance issue. On the weapons elevators, I'm just flabbergasted. There are what, eight of them on the Ford? Make a prototype of one and put seven regular hydraulic elevators.
But no, we can perfect a brand-new design that requires millimeter-scale tolerances for 100 feet and install all eight of them. Trust us!
Bring back the escort carrier? 2 squadrons of F-35s and 2 of helicopters, plus some UAVs. Great for those "backwater" areas where we need to suddenly have presence. EC, Amhpib, Burke, Constellation, and 1 or 2 sustainment ships.
I just said the same thing above. Take the America Class LHA design, strip out all the space given to Marine ground forces and optimize it as an LHA (Light Carrier, not escort)
But yeah, 2 squadrons of F-35B's plus all the VTOL and VSTOL UAV capabilities that can squeeze.
I've seen good numbers indicating we could build these at 3 to 1 for the cost of Ford CVN's.
The 2nd CSG needs to head further west to SOH and ensure that the Iranians idiots don't try anything. I would assume a small mushroom cloud over Tehran would result if they do actively get involved in the Gaza cesspool.
Promissory note for safe evac? And 6 million illegals get a free phone, can't be turned down for a loan, get free $300 per day housing, free food, and free education. Gotta love the US Guvmint.
Your comment on the escort seemed almost painfully obvious.........then you mentioned a MarDet. Hopefully whoever is coordinating this listens to their staff weenies. (Who also hopefully are thinking out of the box.)
Aircraft carrier capability to bomb: Before the F-35 stealthy bird ,some time ago during the Vietnam era, we had the A-6, A-4 and A-7 aircraft that could put MANY MK-82, MK-83 AND MK-84 bombs on target with deadly accuracy. The A-6 could carry 28 MK-82 500lb bombs! What do we have now? I suppose the B-52s are available but I have not heard them headed east from Barksdale, AFB (I live in N. Louisiana) loaded for war in a long time.
Why would I trust The Nation when they can’t get even the basic history right?
“From then on, carriers played a leading role throughout the Pacific theater, displacing the once-dominant battleship. One of these, the USS Enterprise (Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry fancied its name), participated four months later in Lt. Col. Jimmy Doolittle’s carrier-launched retaliatory bombing raid on Tokyo“
Sure, I SUPPOSE you could say Enterprise “participated”, but only as a support vessel in the overall task force. The Hornet led the raid and any other suggestion is weak-sauce. I guess they just wanted to link it to Star Trek, which is even sadder than not knowing the history.
I guess the question is better when you cut it off in the appropriate place. “Why should I trust The Nation?”
“We don’t know how capable these new missiles are; China has only conducted one known test on a moving target, back in 2020, and didn’t publicize the result, which probably means it failed. Still, missile-guidance technology has made enormous progress in recent years, and it stands to reason that the bigger an aircraft carrier is, the easier it will be for a carrier-killer to hit it.”
Yep. These past three years have changed EVERYTHING when it comes to missile-guidance. It’s been a downright miracle. Combine that with the carriers growing larger in the last three years…it’s all that COVID weight I guess.
“ The ultimate reason we still make supercarriers is all those jobs. ”
Sure. That’s it. If we could create the same number of jobs by building kitten houses and magic unicorn factories we’d do that. There’s no mission that supercarriers enable at all. Just jobs.
By your definition none of the ships participated in the raid because not a single ship appeared in the skies over Japan. The Hornet merely provided a supporting role as transport. :)
The Hornet was the ship that launched the raid. That’s historical fact and well-documented. The choice to focus on Enterprise is either stylistic to bring in Star Trek (which is both pointless and vacuous) or ignorance. I’m going with the latter. Enterprise was there to run cover; not strike. It’s just weak writing. It’s lazy. And that offends me.
It isn't lazy writing. A lot of modern journalists write to force in a lot of keywords for the google results. Enterprise causes the article to rise in the search rankings.
That's the same reason why lots of unrelated content mentioned Trump. Trump caused a lot more clicks so including Trump in any article improved the commercial performance even if it worsened the news analysis.
That’s your opinion. Mine is that it’s pandering because “Star Trek” and “Gene Roddenberry” have zip to do with the Doolittle Raid or supercarriers or the defense of our nation. So, whatever.
That was her mission. Why? She was more experienced and her air wing was assigned to provide the air defense screen to ensure the Hornet was safe. We had 6 Carriers in February 42 and they were more valuable than any other weapon we had. I served in CVN 65. She was unique. Just as CV6 was. There are those that served on any ship named “Enterprise” and those that did are fortunate. Those that didn’t.. well sucks to be you.
Oh. THAT’S why you are the way you are. Fine. Congratulations. You served on Enterprise. Good for you.
The Doolittle raid depended most heavily on stealth and surprise. Had the task force been discovered, all bets were off, especially with a covering Air Wing built around Wildcats facing Zeroes. But fine. Yeah. Enterprise served admirably supporting the Hornet on her mission to launch an attack on Tokyo.
I’m done arguing with you. Your pride in your ship is noble, but it doesn’t change the history. If you’re writing an article about carrier strike groups centering on the Doolittle Raid, your focus belongs on Hornet. Anything else is a weaker argument because the strike package was launched from Hornet. End of story and good day to you, sir.
Sailors don’t serve “on” ships. We serve “in” ships. Hornet and Enterprise WERE discovered. 3 hours before launch time. The raid led to catastrophic results post bombing and led to much confusion as to where and when to land. One bomber made it to Soviet territory and most were lost. Doolittle crashed in China and thought his mission a failure and was surprised to learn it was a massive success. He was promoted and assigned to Patton’s 7th army as TAF CG.
I don’t get wrapped around banalities as you seem to be. You need some medication to calm down. Show me on the doll where Enterprise touched you…
The Japanese, monitoring U.S. Navy radio traffic, deduced that a carrier raid on the homeland was a possibility after 14 April 1942 and prepared accordingly. TF-16 approached to within 650 miles of Japan on 18 April 1942. Lacking radar, the Japanese “early warning” capability lay in parallel lines of picket boats—radio-equipped converted fishing trawlers—operating at prescribed intervals offshore. One of these little vessels, No.23 Nitto Maru, discovered the task force on the morning of 18 April and radioed a sighting report. Although Halsey had agreed to take TF-16 within 400 miles of Japan to ensure maximum success, as Doolittle had requested while en route, the admiral recognized the potential threat of Japanese land-based air assets (indeed 80 medium bombers had been massed in the Kanto area) to half of the U.S. Navy’s carrier force in the Pacific. The exigencies of war dictated that Halsey order Hornet to launch the 16 Mitchells earlier than planned.
Jesus Christ, stop acting like such a fucking child. I’ve not said ONE negative thing about Enterprise. If you can’t see that, maybe have an adult read it to you and explain.
Simply pointing out that a ship wasn’t the focus of an operation in an article shouldn’t cause anyone the degree of upset this has caused you. USS Tamalpais, AO-96, was in Tokyo Bay for the surrender, yet when we talk about it, we talk about USS Missouri because that was where the action was. Sure, Halsey had Enterprise as his flagship. Okay, great. How many aircraft did Enterprise launch to strike Japan? Hornet? At Midway, Fletcher had to move his flag to the cruiser Astoria when Yorktown was too damaged. When it comes to Midway though, do we focus of Astoria, where the Admiral’s flag was or on Yorktown which launched the strike force?
Yes, the Enterprise served honorably on Task Force 16, and on many other additional actions in World War II, and before and after, under the many different ships of her name. I think HIGHLY of the Enterprise. Does that make you happy?
Calling out a journalist for a cheap, hacky allusion to bring in pop culture was the point. The fact that you can’t handle honoring a different hull that played a larger role in a single operation says more about you than me. Later, loser.
1st !
They probably could have sortied a couple of big deck amphibs to the region by now and loaded all the people into the troop compartments. Plenty of room on LPD's, LPH's, etc.
Amphibs work best if they're already in the region.
Consider that this option is the firstest with the mostest option for what needs to happen.
Of course putting a lot of civilians on board an amphib encumbers the amphib and its assets if faced with another mission requirement
"It'll be a story you can tell your grandchildren. When we swing by the harbor, swim for it! Or be prepared to hump ammo as a supernumerary.
LPH and LHD have the room.
And it worked so well when HMS Hood took civilian workmen aboard when going into action.
Not to mention the USS Thresher!
WTF? You confused or what?
USS Thresher SSN 593 sailed that day in April with 129 personnel and "Shipyard" workers.
Confused? Education.
LPH? There hasn't been an LPH in the fleet since 1998. LHAs & LHDs.
UK has them, and UK probably has one en route or in the med.
Hey, are you the test pilot CPT Coulson? Did you finish your time teaching NROTC?
Yes I am Ciprian. Finished teachingg at NROTC Minnesota in 2007. Great folks there! J
The 26th MEU SOC are off Kuwait recalled 6 Mars back afloat from training exercises.
Concur all. Besides escorting the cruise ship, I would hope that we are significantly augmenting her internal security with armed US forces. The bad guys like to infiltrate and then murder, lest we forget.
I want to see how TSA agents at the boarding gate handle the gripes from shrill Karen's remonstrating about a 22kg baggage limit, what constitutes "carry-on"and why so small because it ain't going in some overhead baggage compartment and how come Fifi, my toy poodle therapy dog, is getting the M.S. St. Louis treatment? Am very sure that any promissory notes signed won't be pursued by bill collectors. There's an election in 2024. That'd just be a further black eye to TPTB in Washington. Passengers should stiff .gov. Am wondering too if a class action lawsuit will be filed on behalf of the evacuees for Washington's failure to see the Hamas attack in advance and failure to provide security for the taxi ride from their bunkers to the cruise ship in Haifa. Still kind of sticks in my craw that kin of 911 victims got millions in settlements from a generous Congress while spouses and children of the military men who died in the 20 year GWoT got just SBP, SGLI, a small death gratuity and a tombstone. That's begrudging nothing to the 911 folks. Just shows you how undervalued and unappreciated the heavy lifters are.
Heh. Well, the agents at the boarding gates are going to be Israeli, so somehow I suspect that the Karens (and FiFi) will not be getting a lot of sympathy :-)
I do not think that a class action lawsuit against the government for failure to foresee will win (not least of which is because of sovereign immunity).
If there is to be any compensation (which probably won't happen), it will probably be as a regulatory payout or private bill in Congress, not a lawsuit claim.
I’d argue putting a CSG offshore is a monument to national capability; not a monument to national will. USING the CSG is the latter.
It amazes that the West is so flaccid in the face of this atrocity. It quite obviously is an action by a rising anti-Western ideology and power that is both a test of America’s national will and a start of the most serious attack on liberty since 1945.
Because our response will be other than the historically-appropriate response to a power able, willing and eager to attack the allies of an adversary power - annihilating the attacker - Iran and Islam will continue and increase their attacks on a West unwilling - not unable, but choosing not to - respond.
The proper - historical - response to this attack on Israel is the same as the proper - historical - response should have been to 9/11. The West ROSE by killing its enemies.
Iran should be nuked now; KSA should’ve been nuked on 9/12.
If we won’t kill our enemies, we aren’t defending our Darwinian niche; it will be taken from us. That’s what Iran is starting now.
The question is, as it has been since 26 June 1950: Why do we care more about the lives of our enemies than we do about the lives of our citizens?
Our Darwinian niche has been in flux for more than a decade. I have heard that some think defending it will be put on hold until a committee defines our niche, that being the fiscally and morally prudent thing. They say that step 1 should be to appoint a committee to recommend a membership that reflects the diversity of our great democracy and those target values which most firmly embrace the wellbeing of Gaia and xer children. Got no bone to pick with you, Scip, but can't we let the decisions about who needs killing be left to the committee? Further, is there any point in giving Iran and Gaza pallets of cash for civil engineering projects to build schools, roads, drainage, zoos, skateboard parks, basketball courts, an energy grid and theme parks based on the Koran just to bomb the Hell out of it?
I fear that committee would be the UN/WEF/globalist terrorists.
Zounds! Recipe for disaster. How would Islamo-terrorists be able to sit in the same room with woke UNster's and worldly WEFfers? Don't you know how crazy they can get when their blood is up? Sure, the Terrs can swallow their bile if they have to...that bile can be Halal and therefore the swallowing is permitted if I have read the religious literature correctly. Taqiya and all that. But why not do it the normal way? Let the Western elites who have the master copy of the blueprint for the NWO and best know the goals that get them to the end game form the committee on their own. My ancestors handled snakes in Appalachia. Trust me. (Speaking of "halal"...read years ago a fatwa by Imam Khomeini, I think, wherein he said it was wrong to sell the meat of a goat that had been defiled by an act of human lust to anyone in your own village, but permissible to sell it in a village farther away. This shows us that some religious people possess flexibility in their thinking, which leads me to believe that we can all get along if we want to. I raised goats as a hobby for 20 years, gave them away, sold a few cheap, never ate one.)
I'm thinking of goats since my horses have gotten old now one is 26 the other 23 and are not riding mounts for any length of time, and I am getting too old to ride LOL, left knee is getting arthroscopic surgery next month, thinking of goats to keep the pasture mowed down biologically.
The Grandson raises goats from time to time.
Worldwide, goats are known as the poor man's cattle. They are easy keepers, great at brush control. The nanny goats will reproduce usually twice a year, 2 kids each time. The hardiest goats are generic "woods goats" or Boers. Dairy goats are prone to be bad mothers. I used to keep around 20 on two 1 acre pastures plus another acre I had fenced in the woods. Used to supplement them with bagged corn and sweet feed. There can be a good market for them with first generation Africans, Arabs and Asians. Used to give them away, sell them really cheap or donate them for FFA and 4-H projects.
Boers sounds like the ones for me. Part of my pasture is wooded pine, saw briars and hard woods fenced in. The Billy Goat my Grandson had was a very determined head but specialist.
Taking on his Donkey and sometimes a threatening post.
I have over ten acres less than twenty, seven acres are pasture split into a large corral, a center and a front with the woods in the rear the rest is woods with bridle trails cut through it.
Rural country in a poor county there are deer trails, across the property and a small spring and wet weather pond.
I think I will go with the grandson and pick out a couple of goats.
Sounds fun LOL
It's ... interesting ... that the goat question came up at all.
Flaccid?
US went from a sustained DEFCON 4 to DEFCON 3 almost over night.
… and actually DID nothing. Flaccid.
DEFCON 3 ROUND HOUSE
Increase in force readiness above that required for normal readiness
Air Force ready to mobilize in 15 minutes
That is one level below DEFCON 2
DEFCON 2 FAST PACE
Next step to nuclear war
Armed forces ready to deploy and engage in less than six hours
Have you ever been in the military and gone to DEFCON 3 ?
Bubba they start requisitioning ammunition and handing out bayonets to grunts.
Training steps up and the Operational Tempo rises.
example; Currently B-52 BUFFS are running ready hot pad alerts, and training to drop bombs.
Warning orders are going out and the wait is on.
Did we kill anyone?
No.
Flaccid.
Ouch!
Yes I’ve been in the military. Like 2A, if it isn’t used it doesn’t matter.
It’s not our war, however, just as neither is Ukraine. But if Israel just vaporized Gaza a whole lotta lives would be saved downstream.
True but down wind a whole lot of lives would be lost.
Fallout is an equal opportunity killer.
Good to go Buddy!
What of the WW 2 German fleets in being that never left port yet tied up the British for months? Not used but did matter, until they got sunk.
I think Peleliu, Dresden, Okinawa, and Nagasaki/Hiroshima created a serious mental block on the Politicians.
No one wants to be hounded by mass deaths even those legal for the rest of their lives.
I think your correct. Doesn’t make it right. How many lives would’ve been saved in 20C had we nuked Pyongyang? Millions.
You’re
LOL I am not a grammer os spelling NAZI,
True, but the US is still taking flak from Nagasaki and Hiroshima.
Had we nuked Pyongyang the results would be world wide condemnation LOL
We're also taking flak for freedom, prosperity, liberty and eating beef, So what?
I also think that, had we nuked Pyongyang in 1950, the world was much more attuned to the reality of war, mass deaths and the necessity sometimes, thereof. We weren't dealing with a buncha coddled losers, but with men, women, families, who had just been through the crucible of real war and understood that sometimes you just need to kill bad guys. IOW, I don't think worldwide condemnation would've been then what it would be now.
Nuclear weapons are the last resort for any war time weapon.
They are deadly for a large area.
This is over dude.
Get a life.
See? That’s the problem. Killing 2M Koreans or 2M Vietnamese conventionally - no problem. Killing maybe 100K of them and no Americans and ending the issue you find distasteful. I’ll go with Ike. You may remember hearing of him. He & MacArthur were the LAST American General Officers to win their wars. His foreign & defense policy, as President was nicknamed “massive retaliation.” No one called him.
But you probably woulda wet your pants.
I'd like to think that precautions were/are being taken; unfortunately that's not the way to bet.
They are finishing up division diversity training. They will maybe sorta get there eventually. When they are green in the stoplight chart.
If the CMEO's "busy", I figure it would fall to me as a new Chief to run Diversity training.
"Before we go back to work, Millington wants us to have Diversity Training. Here's the important terms on this sheet, then pass around the 3500 to say we did it."
Congrats on making Chief!
Thank you!
heh heh. yep, watched as those carriers were deployed, and wondered........
where are the amphibs, (read Marines ) hmmm? Semper Fi y'all
The 26 MEU SOC is off shore Kuwait they recalled the 6th Mars unknown Bn afloat from a training exercise and they may or may not be transiting to the Med.
There should be another MEU in the Med.
What will possibly be needed is most likely on Air Alert to fly out of CLNC via Aircraft military or chartered civilian As Needed.
The 1973 Yom Kippur war saw my BLT on a CARG ashore at Vieques placed on air alert to fly out of the nearest USAF or Navy air base to the Arena. And to also prepare to repulse any Soviet/Cuban invasion of GITMO.
The Marines are there they are just quiet, OpSec.
Semper Fi Bubba.
Do you ever get the feeling that Putin plays three dimensional chess and Biden, Blinken, Austin, Sullivan, etc. are playing Candy Land?
Occasionally, but I look at the chess player as actually being Xi. Putin is just the Sith lord in view. Always two there are, master and apprentice.
Or a king and queen in chess.
We tend to overrate Russia, and underrate our other opponents.
Russian hands on military is regional, how ever their reach by other means has long legs.
Frankly, IMO they believe they are the smartest people in the room.
Since they send out the invite list and set the agenda, they may very well be the smartest people in the room.
Kinda' sad that your comment is probably true.
“A’s hire A’s, B’s hire C’s” and maybe even hire a few “D’s.”
POTATUS has wanted to relive the Carter Administration. He jumped the gun a little: There are 462 days to the next Presidential inauguration day
Donald Trump cannot return soon enough.
I think we can agree our current crop of leadership is incompetent while still acknowledging that Putin is JUST as incompetent. Putin's only difference is that he is far more bloodthirsty in his incompetence.
But sure, tell me again about his brilliant plan to capture Ukraine in a week.
Heck, this man leaves incompetent's in charge of his defense complex specifically because he can't afford to have anyone competent competing with him for popular support.
But wait, I know, it's all 3D chess, and Putin's grand plan will reveal itself any-day, haha, shame on all of us for doubting.
If his plan had been to capture Kiev in a week, he’d’ve waged an entirely different war.
Actually, the plan was to capture Kiev in three days, which is why the tanks had three days of food and dress uniforms on board. Putin scared the piss out of his intel people, and they told him what he wanted to hear, which was not, alas, the truth. ”Conducting sudden, top-secret special operations is the main pattern of Russian President Vladimir Putin’s behavior. As a former chekist [security official], he always wants to catch everyone off-guard, in order to frighten them and to impress on them that he can do whatever he wants. We witnessed this once again during the emergency meeting of the Security Council three days before the war. The stammering of foreign intelligence head Sergei Naryshkin, the confusion of deputy Kremlin administration head Dmitry Kozak, and the worried face of Moscow mayor Sergei Sobyanin were evidence enough. The most influential people in Russia sat before Putin like schoolchildren before a teacher who had suddenly announced an exam. And this meeting wasn’t even about a war — they were only discussing the recognition of the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Luhansk “people’s republics.” By the outbreak of the war, the Russian political space had been wiped clean to the extent that is possible. In the depths of their souls, officials and legislators may disagree with the decisions of their leaders — but only in the depths of their souls. There are very few left who can contradict him out loud, directly to his face. The official comments high-ranking officials are making during the war are uniform and echo what President Putin said when the war was declared: "Russia was left with no other choice," "our army is liberating the Ukrainian people from the oppression of nationalists," and so on." https://streamfortyseven.substack.com/p/fsb-whistleblower-report-war-in-ukraine Some of the people from the Fifth Directorate who were in on the above-cited report ended up in the basement of the Lubyanka...
Some times a boxers plan to TKO the opponent is blocked by the opponent, but the match isn't over because of that.
Their best bet was to raid towards Kiev and smash into the south.
But not having a veteran military and corrupt leaders that would have turned out the same.
No. The massing of troop towards Kiev and the surprised rush to find the (non-existent) stores of food and supplies supposedly left by pro-Kremlin agents strongly suggests Kiev was the real target. The lightly armed airborne attack was daring but foolhardy if there was a serious suspicion of resistance. Probably Russian intelligence was surprised at the fact that rear units also opposed the Kremlin, not just the supposed anti-Russian elements at the front.
The conduct after the first disastrous month is only possible because Russia has a rail network and the awareness that Kiev is firmly in the hands of anti-Kremlin forces.
Your third paragraph sounds like too many U.S. presidents.
US' current crop of leadership is not incompetent, they're ideologues. Much worse.
No, they are not ideologues, they are a well entrenched kakistocracy. Much worse.
We have bred a lot of world wide western incompetent leaders.
If you gaze around the world you see that Putin is the only great power leader actively resisting the globalists.
That's why they hate him. Richard Poe's substack gave me a fresh perspective on this.
Poes Substack is excellent. Thanks for the tip!
And he is the best argument by the Globalists for why they should rule.
I've been to Moscow and it was a profoundly depressing city. I do not have any love for the current leadership but Putin's culture of fakery is not the answer.
Have you considered moving to a city run by unaccountable totalitarians as a practice run for living under the WEF? I'd think Pyongyang would be right up your alley. I also assume you have no children, at least none whose future you give a shit about, right? Can I order you some insects to eat off of Amazon?
Putin is no less autocratic than Sadiq Khan and lies just as much.
Have you see Oakland St Louis Newark etc?
I used to live in Minneapolis. Is that enough?
Not everything leads back to Russia. Maybe Hamas felt it was necessary to squash the rapprochement between Arab nations and Israel.
That's not to say that Russia will not use this to pursue its interests.
I don't think Russia was behind this attack. However, they did nothing to stop it. I do not believe Iran would have given HAMAS the green light without getting at least tacit approval from Moscow and Beijing. Putin may be angry with Netanyahu for supporting Ukraine despite his own efforts at cordial relations. On the other Netanyahu had no choice but to do whatever Biden demanded. That's my take. We need a Tallyrand or a Palmerston and all we have is a Blinken and a Sullivan.
And Biden cheats, Blinken loses and Austin steals the pieces?
Hezbollah has capability and intent to use land based cruise missiles against naval targets. They lack the opportunity. I wonder how loose ADC will be with ROE and FRAGO for ATO. Deconfliction will be “interesting”. No one wants another Liberty incident either.
I’m curious if we see IRGCN tactics and doctrine used by Hezbollah.
I'm worried about Hezbollah's missile inventory. It makes Hamas look like child's play.
Most estimates I've seen indicate Hamas likely had an inventory of around 15k, mostly home built low tech.
I've seen estimates that Hezbollah has at least 10x that many, including nearly all of Iran's most advanced designs to include MRBM's, ASM's etc...
Ward Carroll mentioned that Ike was supposed to transit the Suez to the 5th's op area. I'm not sure confined waters for a transit would be good right now. I suspect there are too many taking lessons from the Ukraine.
Wondered about that myself.
Against the evac ship?
Against the carriers and escorts.
The evac ship would be less lightly protected and closer to shore, therefore an easier target. Also, with all of the news bubbas covering the evacuation, a much more visible massacre.
My comment was specific to carrier operations once on station. To your point, a cruise ship is defenseless against Hezbollah. See Achille Lauro…
Understood. The Achille Lauro was on my mind when I posted my comment.
Why not?
If the Ford is over the hump and the Navy is now confident in its abilities, we should move to a new build strategy and ditch the RCOHs for a 10 new carrier fleet. Make Ford's 5-7 and 8-10 3 ship block buys every 8 years. Launch a ship every 32 months. One pre-req for that would be building 2 ships in graving dock 12 at the same time. This is already happening with Enterprise and Dorris Miller.
I still think we should be building light carriers (CVL, based on the design of the America Class LHA, but without the Marine centric capabilities and optimized as a light carrier for F-35B ops) at a rate of 2-1 for the CVN's
Not arguing against CVN's, but we could build and equip CVL's at a rate of 3 to 1 for same price, while generating a higher sortie rate and having far more distributed ops.
That would also require the Navy and Marines to invest in more F-35B squadrons in addition to C's. I would field those CVL's with 2 squadrons of F-35B's each, 1 each from USN and USMC, and while the planes would be the same, the focus for each squadron would be different, with USMC owning the strike and CAS package and USN owning the CAP and Counter Air package.
The LHA as the basis for a light carrier is a terrible idea. Too slow and inefficient layout. Should we have a CVL … yes but give it 30kts, 2 Cats and the ability to care a few E2Cs.
This might be the time to go Americanize someone else's design. Probably Italian or Japanese. Trick is Catobar is going to mean those options get tossed and you live with a variant of the UK carriers. That will be too expensive to be worth it. Just build more CVNs and reintroduce RCOH at some point.
As a 24-36 hour surge V/STOL asset pretending it's a CVL, it will work. After that it's kinda' useless.
Agree... Without AEW or tanking capability, and saddled with the short legged variant F-35- seems like a waste of a ship and money. IMHO, the LHA should be built to haul Marines, or not at all.
The carrier feasibility studies about smaller carriers fir decades always say that a big deck carrier is the best and most bang for the buck. Sure, we can posit that those studies by the Navy were answers waiting for a question. But if there are any new CV iterations being considered, Id vote for a conventional catobar CV that lands between the Midway and Forestall. Gives you almost the full airwing capacity of a CVN, but on a cheaper platform that can be built in more yards. Maybe someone on the west coast could even step up and jump in. I could get behind that. But a "Lightning Carrier"... Not one bit.
Agreed having served on one.
The idea has merit, but your execution is flawed. Conventional powered CV, with angled decks that can operate CATOBAR aircraft would be better. Instead of F-35B, F-18 E/F and maybe an F-35C squadron. E-2s CODs and some helos would round up the airwing.
that's an entire new ship, so good luck getting that out of fleet in less than a decade.
We are building America's right now, so modifying the design to build additional hulls as CVL would be far cheaper and faster.
As pointed out above, I am NOT suggesting we re-purpose the LHA construction line, I am suggesting we build these new CVL hulls in addition to the already programed LHA's, by forgoing every other CVN purchase in favor of 3 CVL's
LHAs are a poor design to build a CVL from. The design changes would probably be as time consuming as a new design, except you still end up with a suboptimal design. Dusting off Essex class blueprints, including upgrades, would probably provide a better product.
That just death spirals both classes.
Yeah, I am all for swapping over from LHA to CVL with an evolving design. First, keep the flight deck changes from LHA-8 but ditch the well deck. Then start making it more carrier and less amphib by working on the flat bottom and adding some propulsion to get the speed up. Swap the gas turbines for LM2500+G4 or MT30s. Retain some ability to embark Marines. Look to the Italian carriers for inspiration more than the Japanese.
Perhaps keep the focus on making sure the LHA's can continue do the "A" mission for which they were designed???
Every time I post this idea, I get replies like yours.
I wish you would re-read my post. I am NOT suggesting we use the LHA's for this purpose.
I am suggesting we use the DESIGN of the LHA's to develop a NEW ship class, the CVL.
Nothing in my post or idea discusses changing the mission of the LHA's, or reducing their number.
I am suggesting that we REDUCE the number of CVN we buy, and so instead of 2 CVN, we would get 1 CVN and 3 CVL, twice the hulls, slightly better sortie rate, slightly more overall manning numbers, much greater distribution of the fleets lethality and less overall vulnerability to losing our "King" pieces.
I replied as a question - not a criticism. I understood what you meant I just was not being clear in my reply. So I'll attempt again. Since we are struggling with how many big gators we should float, it would seem prudent that if we are going to continue to float LHAs, that they should be equipped to perform the "assault" mission given that they're likely to be operating in very heavily contested/high threat environment. As for the CVL's, wouldn't have a clue as to what that configuration would look like or whether the math works out to make such an investment.
What we should be doing is encouraging allies with the technical competence to do so: Taiwan comes immediately to mind, as does SKOR, to build their own deterrence. No reason exists for American taxpayers to continue the nonsense of huge conventional forces for wars that are none of our business (Kuwait, Iraq, Ukraine), wars we demand to fight but refuse to win. Others have the technical and budgetary capacity to defend themselves and should be allowed & encouraged to do so.
I've never seen a report that the ammo elevator and cat issues were fully addressed, not sure on arresting gear. That was a question I had about using her
I wondered that myself. Last public release of info showed the EMALS and AAG were only achieving about 20% of the failure rate standards. So while Ford might stay after Ike appears (great visuals, photo op etc)- I imagine Ike is absolutely hauling a** to get there, so that the USN will actually have a fully functional carrier off Israel if its needed...
Follow Ford's Facebook page. They seem to have some growing confidence.
Ill hafta look!! Ive seen some recent vids giving some pretty positive reveiws. But id really like to see the actual numbers and performance stats the ship is generating now!! I feel that if the numbers were great, they wouldnt be classified...
"I feel that if the numbers were great, they wouldnt be classified..."
Exactly. After Billions spent on very specifically increasing the sortie rate, we have yet to see any actual stats on sortie generation.
Its in their comments about a week ago.
Here's one for yah Andy...
I may make it sound like it was all Wine and Roses in the Old Days, but of course, it was so very often the opposite.
I well remember hearing about the "cold cat" situation on the Indy (Dad was in VAH-1), which killed several people...
Here is the story from the Air Boss:
http://www.ussindependencecv-62.org/gep1ab.htm
That said, she was out at the "Tip of the Spear" in the Med by the end of the summer, as the Cold War was about as hot as it ever got.
https://www.navysite.de/cruisebooks/cv62-60/index.html
Its humorous hearing the media heads acting as if the Ford deployment is something extraordinary
https://www.navysite.de/cruisebooks/cv62-60/027.htm
(check out the number of A-3s aboard the Indy. she embarked18... also ponder the unrefueled radius of those 3 CVW's in comparison to CVW-8 aboard the Ford today...)
https://www.history.navy.mil/content/history/nhhc/our-collections/photography/numerical-list-of-images/nhhc-series/nh-series/NH-97000/NH-97716.html
I'm not saying the air wing is ideal. That is a whole other topic. I also didn't know anyone crammed 18 A3s aboard. I thought they had maxed out early at 10.
The normal complement then (pic taken Nov. 1960 for the Jan 61 NavAir News celebrating 50 years of Naval Aviation) was 12 on the Forrestals. You can see 8 -VAH-9- on deck of the Sara.
Indy landed her F-8s at Rota so the extra 6 could fit.
Don't think it was ever done again.
Go back and look at the LCS 1 ships' face book pages from 5 or so years ago then tell us that those face book pages are indicative of anything measurable.
Agreed, they aren't. And they are. There is usually very little interesting to see. Just daily life, certifications. Very little air ops or anything to do with a mission module. Little live fire. Lots of playing with small arms.
Photos of the Ford landing area show a massive silhouette of a super hornet on the landing area. Ferrous anomalies and magnetic resonance is suspect. What is happening to the aircraft graphite and composite materials? NDI must be interesting.
Have a DVIDS reference or something?
Have they resolved the "one cat goes down, they all do" issue?
My (civilian, uninformed) impression was that was a significant design flaw difficult to address, but I do hope they tried.
I would have hoped they fixed it before finishing the second Ford-Class, the USS John F. Kennedy (CVN-79). Not sure they did. A seemingly insurmountable problem is the lack of wing clearance on CAT-4, preventing the launch of fully loaded aircraft (WTF?)
Then there are the elevators....
So, we have an $11-billion plus ship or three, that cannot load weapons quickly, that cannot launch when a cat is broken, and even when they are not are not MICAP on 25% of the cats.
That's the first I'd heard of the wing clearance issue. On the weapons elevators, I'm just flabbergasted. There are what, eight of them on the Ford? Make a prototype of one and put seven regular hydraulic elevators.
But no, we can perfect a brand-new design that requires millimeter-scale tolerances for 100 feet and install all eight of them. Trust us!
Can’t man them.
... and someone just had to let all the air out of the balloon!!!!
10 with 600 fewer billets each vs 11 w 600 more each? Current plan would mean even more of a problem manning the current plan.
You don’t understand how Carriers are manned. IDTC green yellow and red and all….
Bring back the escort carrier? 2 squadrons of F-35s and 2 of helicopters, plus some UAVs. Great for those "backwater" areas where we need to suddenly have presence. EC, Amhpib, Burke, Constellation, and 1 or 2 sustainment ships.
I just said the same thing above. Take the America Class LHA design, strip out all the space given to Marine ground forces and optimize it as an LHA (Light Carrier, not escort)
But yeah, 2 squadrons of F-35B's plus all the VTOL and VSTOL UAV capabilities that can squeeze.
I've seen good numbers indicating we could build these at 3 to 1 for the cost of Ford CVN's.
The 2nd CSG needs to head further west to SOH and ensure that the Iranians idiots don't try anything. I would assume a small mushroom cloud over Tehran would result if they do actively get involved in the Gaza cesspool.
Promissory note for safe evac? And 6 million illegals get a free phone, can't be turned down for a loan, get free $300 per day housing, free food, and free education. Gotta love the US Guvmint.
Your comment on the escort seemed almost painfully obvious.........then you mentioned a MarDet. Hopefully whoever is coordinating this listens to their staff weenies. (Who also hopefully are thinking out of the box.)
Duplicate comment.
Aircraft carrier capability to bomb: Before the F-35 stealthy bird ,some time ago during the Vietnam era, we had the A-6, A-4 and A-7 aircraft that could put MANY MK-82, MK-83 AND MK-84 bombs on target with deadly accuracy. The A-6 could carry 28 MK-82 500lb bombs! What do we have now? I suppose the B-52s are available but I have not heard them headed east from Barksdale, AFB (I live in N. Louisiana) loaded for war in a long time.
B-1B not retired yet; capacity 84 Mk 82
Why would I trust The Nation when they can’t get even the basic history right?
“From then on, carriers played a leading role throughout the Pacific theater, displacing the once-dominant battleship. One of these, the USS Enterprise (Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry fancied its name), participated four months later in Lt. Col. Jimmy Doolittle’s carrier-launched retaliatory bombing raid on Tokyo“
Sure, I SUPPOSE you could say Enterprise “participated”, but only as a support vessel in the overall task force. The Hornet led the raid and any other suggestion is weak-sauce. I guess they just wanted to link it to Star Trek, which is even sadder than not knowing the history.
I guess the question is better when you cut it off in the appropriate place. “Why should I trust The Nation?”
“When the Navy named a vessel after Carter a few years later, it chose a nuclear submarine, not a supercarrier”
Umm, because Carter was a SUBMARINE nuclear officer, not a carrier officer.
Seriously, reading this article is like amateur hour.
This is comical.
“We don’t know how capable these new missiles are; China has only conducted one known test on a moving target, back in 2020, and didn’t publicize the result, which probably means it failed. Still, missile-guidance technology has made enormous progress in recent years, and it stands to reason that the bigger an aircraft carrier is, the easier it will be for a carrier-killer to hit it.”
Yep. These past three years have changed EVERYTHING when it comes to missile-guidance. It’s been a downright miracle. Combine that with the carriers growing larger in the last three years…it’s all that COVID weight I guess.
Last one.
“ The ultimate reason we still make supercarriers is all those jobs. ”
Sure. That’s it. If we could create the same number of jobs by building kitten houses and magic unicorn factories we’d do that. There’s no mission that supercarriers enable at all. Just jobs.
By your definition none of the ships participated in the raid because not a single ship appeared in the skies over Japan. The Hornet merely provided a supporting role as transport. :)
That’s not it at all.
The Hornet was the ship that launched the raid. That’s historical fact and well-documented. The choice to focus on Enterprise is either stylistic to bring in Star Trek (which is both pointless and vacuous) or ignorance. I’m going with the latter. Enterprise was there to run cover; not strike. It’s just weak writing. It’s lazy. And that offends me.
So where were the F4 Wildcats at while Hornets deck was clobbered with B-25’s?
No one gives a rip at your offense.
You sound like a Star Wars fan.
Just having some fun.
Wasn’t offended by you, not at all. I got it. I was completing my thought process is all and using it to poke the geniuses at The Nation.
Makes sense
It isn't lazy writing. A lot of modern journalists write to force in a lot of keywords for the google results. Enterprise causes the article to rise in the search rankings.
That's the same reason why lots of unrelated content mentioned Trump. Trump caused a lot more clicks so including Trump in any article improved the commercial performance even if it worsened the news analysis.
That’s your opinion. Mine is that it’s pandering because “Star Trek” and “Gene Roddenberry” have zip to do with the Doolittle Raid or supercarriers or the defense of our nation. So, whatever.
CV6 was the fighter escort for CV8. She was integral to the OPSEC and conduct of the Doolittle raid.
Yup. She was an effective supporting element.
That was her mission. Why? She was more experienced and her air wing was assigned to provide the air defense screen to ensure the Hornet was safe. We had 6 Carriers in February 42 and they were more valuable than any other weapon we had. I served in CVN 65. She was unique. Just as CV6 was. There are those that served on any ship named “Enterprise” and those that did are fortunate. Those that didn’t.. well sucks to be you.
Oh. THAT’S why you are the way you are. Fine. Congratulations. You served on Enterprise. Good for you.
The Doolittle raid depended most heavily on stealth and surprise. Had the task force been discovered, all bets were off, especially with a covering Air Wing built around Wildcats facing Zeroes. But fine. Yeah. Enterprise served admirably supporting the Hornet on her mission to launch an attack on Tokyo.
I’m done arguing with you. Your pride in your ship is noble, but it doesn’t change the history. If you’re writing an article about carrier strike groups centering on the Doolittle Raid, your focus belongs on Hornet. Anything else is a weaker argument because the strike package was launched from Hornet. End of story and good day to you, sir.
Sailors don’t serve “on” ships. We serve “in” ships. Hornet and Enterprise WERE discovered. 3 hours before launch time. The raid led to catastrophic results post bombing and led to much confusion as to where and when to land. One bomber made it to Soviet territory and most were lost. Doolittle crashed in China and thought his mission a failure and was surprised to learn it was a massive success. He was promoted and assigned to Patton’s 7th army as TAF CG.
I don’t get wrapped around banalities as you seem to be. You need some medication to calm down. Show me on the doll where Enterprise touched you…
Lol. Your hate for Big E is bizarre. Two carriers performed that mission. Only one survived the war.
"Had the task force been discovered, all bets were off,"
It was discovered!
https://www.history.navy.mil/browse-by-topic/wars-conflicts-and-operations/world-war-ii/1942/halsey-doolittle-raid.html
The Japanese, monitoring U.S. Navy radio traffic, deduced that a carrier raid on the homeland was a possibility after 14 April 1942 and prepared accordingly. TF-16 approached to within 650 miles of Japan on 18 April 1942. Lacking radar, the Japanese “early warning” capability lay in parallel lines of picket boats—radio-equipped converted fishing trawlers—operating at prescribed intervals offshore. One of these little vessels, No.23 Nitto Maru, discovered the task force on the morning of 18 April and radioed a sighting report. Although Halsey had agreed to take TF-16 within 400 miles of Japan to ensure maximum success, as Doolittle had requested while en route, the admiral recognized the potential threat of Japanese land-based air assets (indeed 80 medium bombers had been massed in the Kanto area) to half of the U.S. Navy’s carrier force in the Pacific. The exigencies of war dictated that Halsey order Hornet to launch the 16 Mitchells earlier than planned.
Now don’t start giving facts Sid. Thank goodness you didn’t utter the word “Enterprise” in your comment!
Halsey had his flag in Enterprise and he was the TF admiral. This isn’t hard.
Jesus Christ, stop acting like such a fucking child. I’ve not said ONE negative thing about Enterprise. If you can’t see that, maybe have an adult read it to you and explain.
Simply pointing out that a ship wasn’t the focus of an operation in an article shouldn’t cause anyone the degree of upset this has caused you. USS Tamalpais, AO-96, was in Tokyo Bay for the surrender, yet when we talk about it, we talk about USS Missouri because that was where the action was. Sure, Halsey had Enterprise as his flagship. Okay, great. How many aircraft did Enterprise launch to strike Japan? Hornet? At Midway, Fletcher had to move his flag to the cruiser Astoria when Yorktown was too damaged. When it comes to Midway though, do we focus of Astoria, where the Admiral’s flag was or on Yorktown which launched the strike force?
Yes, the Enterprise served honorably on Task Force 16, and on many other additional actions in World War II, and before and after, under the many different ships of her name. I think HIGHLY of the Enterprise. Does that make you happy?
Calling out a journalist for a cheap, hacky allusion to bring in pop culture was the point. The fact that you can’t handle honoring a different hull that played a larger role in a single operation says more about you than me. Later, loser.
Lol. Jibber Jabber.