Spent some time in Rota (also Valencia, Barcelona, Palma etc.). Spain is a pretty good place to be forward homeported. Having said that, suspect your strategic analysis is pretty much spot on. Still, the vastly superior yard and repair work done in Japan versus that in the US might be worth the trade off.
I will take Japan over Spain every time (been to both, lived 5 years in Yokosuka), but we’re obviously running out to ships we can shove in there. I second your nomination for Oceania.
Barcelona for a Port visit many years ago and Palma De Majorca wonderful places. Missed Rota went to the Azores. no shore liberty just rubber necking from the catwalks.
Spain occupies that Nation that is connected to Gibraltar that is what they are there for to keep that strait open.
It's place south of the English Channel is also important.
dunno 'bout marine vessels much vis-a-vis DDG's or frigates 'n all......
But I know airships and what they can add or bring to the fleet. Presently, a commercial company in Spain has a contract to build (10) "Airlander" type "hybrid airships" for $600 Million. Two days ago, Lockheed Martin decided to jump into the market with their own moribund 17 year old version of a "hybrid airship" akin to the "Airlander".
(the "Airlander", once known as the Army "LEMV" is a double-butt-two-or-three-blimps-smashed-together, proven failure monstrosity)
The U.S Navy is now looking into using "Airlander" type craft for logistics.
Perhaps Spain's commercial airship experiment will segue into some testing of new naval airships. It would be a good move. Airships (proper rigid hulled craft) have enormous advantages and potential for the Navy.
What is missing from a discussion of China is any effort to view the world from China’s perspective. The fact of the matter is that the post WWII global system depended on American seapower. China trades with the world. They need the sea lanes open, and they relied on our Navy to do it.
Since the peace dividend the United States has neglected the Navy. We can debate the hows and whys, but the inescapable fact is that the US is teetering on the edge of being unable to keep the sea lanes open. Nation-state piracy would cripple the Chinese economy. Does anyone think that American naval shipbuilding is on a pace to keep our navy in a position of keeping the seas free on a world-wide basis?
Ask yourself, what should a responsible Chinese government do in the twilight of pax americana? To me, one inescapable conclusion is to build an equip a navy able to keep open the sea lanes so that trade can flow uninterrupted. When China depends on a nation to keep the oceans free, and that nation appears to be not up to the task, you can't blame China for picking up the reins herself.
Doesn't Australia have a DDG of their own in the form of the Hobart class DDG that is based off the Álvaro de Bazán-class frigate. So maybe Australia should start getting another one as well.
Rota is special. I spent two years at NSGA Rota. Had an apartment on the beach. Didn't see a whole lot of it because I was deployed constantly but when I was back it was very nice. A wonderful country. Had a base beater that I drove around. Spent a lot of time in Souda Bay and Sigonella too. Crete was wonderful. Can't believe that was almost 30 years ago. Can't believe that the NSG is gone and VQ-2 as well. Hope the robots are having fun now.
Navy BMD should be to defend maneuver over land and water. Defending fixed positions of a non military nature should fall to a land based asset and someone else's budget.
I'd also point out 2 Navantia ships have sunk from collisions, so perhaps their 48 cell ship pushed the limit a bit. Given theirs is also a 2 main diesel 2 gas turbine plant, I'd say that adds to the case. Those wanting more VLS on Connie may be barking up the wrong tree. Given they need to integrate SM-6 and Tomahawk and are hiding the fact those cells are tactical length, maybe putting those 40 foot container launchers for SM-6 and Tomahawk where NSM is planned would be a good way to get that Congressional mandate done. Guessing they could only fit 8 cells that way vs 16, but NSM ought to be hitching a ride on the MH-60 anyway.
"She’s a medium sized power. but she is not a rich nation. Her per capita income is $30,103 compared to the USA’s $70,480 - and her national GDP tracks accordingly at only 6% of the USA (fairly close to Russia. Yes, that Russia)."
Not sure I buy that as a valid argument.
"The economy of Spain is a highly developed social market economy. It is the world's fifteenth-largest by nominal GDP and the sixth-largest in Europe."
(From our friends at Wikipedia.)
Here is a slightly different measurement that somewhat jives with yours.
"Spain is therefore one of the world's largest economies and is currently at rank 14. If this is calculated per inhabitant, taking purchasing power parity into account, then Spain ranks 39th in the list of the richest countries. Inflation in Spain in 2021 was around 3.09%."
At the end of the day? Spain needs to up their naval game.
As far as what we send to the West Coast or more southern environs? In my uninformed opinion? Whatever small hulls go WESTPAC need to be a 70% ASW/AAW mix and operate as groups. Our own SSN are going to be a bit busy.
I am not in favor of disbanding NATO but is is time to leave the 1949 mindset of the US doing all the heavy lifting while the rest of Europe rebuilds from WWII. Europe is done rebuilding and is now an an economic and political competitor of the US in many areas. TIme for them to collectively step up.
The question is how many Americans does it take to defend (and at what cost.) approx. 420 million Europeans, with a combined GDP of over $20 Trillion from approx. 150 million Russians (and falling) with a GDP of only approx. $1.7 Trillion (also falling)?
All the US requires in Europe is two Brigade combat teams along with an Expeditionary Air Wing on a unit rotation in Easter Europe. Russia being a continental power not a Maritime one European Naval strength should be able to handle it if they met their treaty obligations.
Spent some time in Rota (also Valencia, Barcelona, Palma etc.). Spain is a pretty good place to be forward homeported. Having said that, suspect your strategic analysis is pretty much spot on. Still, the vastly superior yard and repair work done in Japan versus that in the US might be worth the trade off.
I will take Japan over Spain every time (been to both, lived 5 years in Yokosuka), but we’re obviously running out to ships we can shove in there. I second your nomination for Oceania.
4 ships for the BMD mission meant an overly high optempo. Aegis Baseline 9/BMD 5.x helps (and all 6 will be outfitted as such in time).
But a mirror out of Australia (or other allies) would not be a bad thing, either.
Barcelona for a Port visit many years ago and Palma De Majorca wonderful places. Missed Rota went to the Azores. no shore liberty just rubber necking from the catwalks.
Spain occupies that Nation that is connected to Gibraltar that is what they are there for to keep that strait open.
It's place south of the English Channel is also important.
Valencia!
dunno 'bout marine vessels much vis-a-vis DDG's or frigates 'n all......
But I know airships and what they can add or bring to the fleet. Presently, a commercial company in Spain has a contract to build (10) "Airlander" type "hybrid airships" for $600 Million. Two days ago, Lockheed Martin decided to jump into the market with their own moribund 17 year old version of a "hybrid airship" akin to the "Airlander".
(the "Airlander", once known as the Army "LEMV" is a double-butt-two-or-three-blimps-smashed-together, proven failure monstrosity)
The U.S Navy is now looking into using "Airlander" type craft for logistics.
Perhaps Spain's commercial airship experiment will segue into some testing of new naval airships. It would be a good move. Airships (proper rigid hulled craft) have enormous advantages and potential for the Navy.
just sayin.
What is missing from a discussion of China is any effort to view the world from China’s perspective. The fact of the matter is that the post WWII global system depended on American seapower. China trades with the world. They need the sea lanes open, and they relied on our Navy to do it.
Since the peace dividend the United States has neglected the Navy. We can debate the hows and whys, but the inescapable fact is that the US is teetering on the edge of being unable to keep the sea lanes open. Nation-state piracy would cripple the Chinese economy. Does anyone think that American naval shipbuilding is on a pace to keep our navy in a position of keeping the seas free on a world-wide basis?
Ask yourself, what should a responsible Chinese government do in the twilight of pax americana? To me, one inescapable conclusion is to build an equip a navy able to keep open the sea lanes so that trade can flow uninterrupted. When China depends on a nation to keep the oceans free, and that nation appears to be not up to the task, you can't blame China for picking up the reins herself.
Perhaps in Australia at Sydney or Perth?
Selling Darwin might be harder But the location is more strategic
Doesn't Australia have a DDG of their own in the form of the Hobart class DDG that is based off the Álvaro de Bazán-class frigate. So maybe Australia should start getting another one as well.
Better 2 more US hulls than more Spanish ones. US interests in the Med are better served by US ships, not by fickle friends.
Rota is special. I spent two years at NSGA Rota. Had an apartment on the beach. Didn't see a whole lot of it because I was deployed constantly but when I was back it was very nice. A wonderful country. Had a base beater that I drove around. Spent a lot of time in Souda Bay and Sigonella too. Crete was wonderful. Can't believe that was almost 30 years ago. Can't believe that the NSG is gone and VQ-2 as well. Hope the robots are having fun now.
Navy BMD should be to defend maneuver over land and water. Defending fixed positions of a non military nature should fall to a land based asset and someone else's budget.
I'd also point out 2 Navantia ships have sunk from collisions, so perhaps their 48 cell ship pushed the limit a bit. Given theirs is also a 2 main diesel 2 gas turbine plant, I'd say that adds to the case. Those wanting more VLS on Connie may be barking up the wrong tree. Given they need to integrate SM-6 and Tomahawk and are hiding the fact those cells are tactical length, maybe putting those 40 foot container launchers for SM-6 and Tomahawk where NSM is planned would be a good way to get that Congressional mandate done. Guessing they could only fit 8 cells that way vs 16, but NSM ought to be hitching a ride on the MH-60 anyway.
Perth, Darwin, maybe somewhere in Japan. Singapore would be hard. Dare I mention India?
"She’s a medium sized power. but she is not a rich nation. Her per capita income is $30,103 compared to the USA’s $70,480 - and her national GDP tracks accordingly at only 6% of the USA (fairly close to Russia. Yes, that Russia)."
Not sure I buy that as a valid argument.
"The economy of Spain is a highly developed social market economy. It is the world's fifteenth-largest by nominal GDP and the sixth-largest in Europe."
(From our friends at Wikipedia.)
Here is a slightly different measurement that somewhat jives with yours.
"Spain is therefore one of the world's largest economies and is currently at rank 14. If this is calculated per inhabitant, taking purchasing power parity into account, then Spain ranks 39th in the list of the richest countries. Inflation in Spain in 2021 was around 3.09%."
https://www.worlddata.info › spain
Economics in Spain compared to the EU - Worlddata.info
At the end of the day? Spain needs to up their naval game.
As far as what we send to the West Coast or more southern environs? In my uninformed opinion? Whatever small hulls go WESTPAC need to be a 70% ASW/AAW mix and operate as groups. Our own SSN are going to be a bit busy.
To think that we one has 174 FLETCHERs, 58 ALLEN M SUMNERs, and 98 GEARINGs.
I am not in favor of disbanding NATO but is is time to leave the 1949 mindset of the US doing all the heavy lifting while the rest of Europe rebuilds from WWII. Europe is done rebuilding and is now an an economic and political competitor of the US in many areas. TIme for them to collectively step up.
The question is how many Americans does it take to defend (and at what cost.) approx. 420 million Europeans, with a combined GDP of over $20 Trillion from approx. 150 million Russians (and falling) with a GDP of only approx. $1.7 Trillion (also falling)?
All the US requires in Europe is two Brigade combat teams along with an Expeditionary Air Wing on a unit rotation in Easter Europe. Russia being a continental power not a Maritime one European Naval strength should be able to handle it if they met their treaty obligations.