Sal, but keep it (NWC) open so civilians, internationals, Army, Air Force, etc can attend & learn about sea power & other two thirds of globe! It is still the best place in US for neophytes to learn basics of sea power.
At least when you update your military disasters book you'll have the advantage of first hand perspective when you do the chapter on the fall of the Pentagon. 😁
Okay, we'll leave NWC open for now. Still, what's happening there gives an entirely new lease on life to the idea of another BRAC.
.
All BRAC-jest aside, it's a shame we have so many "neophytes" in mid-career positions who must go to Newport to "learn basics of sea power." You're not wrong to say that, though. It's more a bitter reflection of the abysmally poor condition of US education, K-12, college, grad and professional skools. Begin with a poor foundation in history in general, US history broadly, and military history in particular; indeed, the History Mafia of modern academe actively shun the latter field. And couple that with generally bad understanding of basic geography across US culture, along with comic book level knowledge of economic geography, and failure to understand links between resources, extraction, industrial processing and long, complex supply chains that eventually lead to final assembly. That is, we have immense numbers of people in important places and jobs, but who are unlearned and fail to discern the distinction between having a true energy/industrial base, versus the mere optics of assembly plants that Lego-block stuff whose origins are far away, even across the wide blue seas.
.
Which brings us back to why we still need NWC, although under different management.
But a true energy/industrial base is ICKY, with icky people making money off it. When horizontal fracking took off here in the upper Ohio Valley, some thought "petrochemical complexes". That would support polymers, automotive, and other industries we have here.
There is an active campaign to stop that from happening.
Geez. Fort Leavenworth Kansas? Tough break, Sir. Shoot me your mailing address and I'll send a few bucks for your commissary account, some books, franked envelopes & stationary and buy you some telephone minutes. If you have a GoFundMe for an appeal, I'm in.
" It is still the best place in US for neophytes to learn basics of sea power. "
Then let the neophytes attend and not waste time and money sending experienced naval officers to relearn the basics and pretend that attendance adds anything to their resume.
I was a civilian employee of the DOEnergy who got a scholarship to NWC in 2005-6. BTW, I live in KS. Every Army officer I talked to at Newport, who went to school at Ft. Leavenworth, LOVED their time here because one can live well on military salary and its a great place for families.
"Learning the basics of seapower" should not need a graduate school or graduate courses. Just... go read books. Why are you in this profession if you're not interested enough in it to read books about it.
Unfortunately the CNO-Professional Reading Program is inane. How the hell are Corbett and Mahan not on the list of 12 books?
I’m but a mere CGSC grad but admire a good historical example of application of professional military education….found this pearl among swine…War Room: US Army War College…Jonathan Klug , 16 Jan 2020….”Strategy Shaving with a Blowtorch “……isn’t this what Senior Service Colleges SHOULD BE DOING?
After he commanded the Lexington, King attended the Naval War College. In preparation for the annual wargame between the U.S. Navy and the Imperial Japanese Navy, the Department Head offered King the command of the U.S. Pacific Fleet if he followed the War College President’s desired route of attack. Characteristically, King replied “if ordered to use the wrong solution he would gladly do so…rather than miss the chance to command such a fleet.” King proved his abilities as a fleet commander during the war game but, as he often did, made life difficult for his superiors, especially when he was told how to do something rather than just what to do.
King’s strategic insight and ability to successfully argue against conventional wisdom and with senior leaders later proved to be essential when he was a member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Combined Chiefs of Staff. In these roles, he often fought with other members of the U.S. Chiefs of Staff as well as the British Chiefs of Staff Committee to secure more resources for the Pacific War. He irritated President Franklin D. Roosevelt on a few occasions, sometimes argued with Secretary of the Navy William Franklin Knox, and routinely fought with Secretary of the Navy James Forrestal. During strategic debates with the British, he even crossed verbal swords one of the most formidable statesmen and strategists of World War II Prime Minister Winston S. Churchill, often successfully. King won many of these strategic arguments, and the historical record shows he was right far more often than he was wrong.
Samuel Eliot Morrison said this of Ernest J. King: Roosevelt hated him, Marshall hated him, and even Churchill hated him. But nevertheless, Admiral King was one of the principle architects of Allied victory in World War II.
King should have been relieved for his refusal to institute the convoy system after we entered the war. His Anglophobia and pigheadedness cost the Allies several hundred merchants and the lives of numerous merchant mariners. That bit of gross incompetence alone was reason enough for Roosevelt to can him. He was also slow to deal with the torpedo problem.
The Brits offered to send some escorts over to help, King rebuffed them. Several tankers in convoy with just one DD escorting would have been better than them operating independently, especially at choke points like Cape Hatteras and the Straits of Florida.
King was a noted Anglophobe, supposedly due to treatment he received in Britain while on the staff of COMLANTFLT during WWI. Apparently, some RN officer or a few bruised his ego. He allowed his personal feelings to dictate his actions and that cost lives and ships.
Was stationed in Newport in 1966-67 on a Destroyer Escort. My focus was never on the NWC. The only allure that Coaster's Island had for us sailors under the age of 21 was the the beer hall where ID cards were never checked and the weak, watery draft Narragansett beer was served in pitchers with plastic cups. It wasn't good beer but it was always cold and most important, cheap and available. Everything is cold in Newport for 11 months out of 12.
You mentioned lunch and a coffee break, Commander, but I didn't see any info on what was offered. Might have been instructive to know who catered lunch and what was on the menu. Grilled Spam and Velvetta sandwiches and Waldorf salad, soyburgers and Tater Tots from the chow hall? Hazelnut de-caf coffee in one of those 60 cup aluminum coffee makers made by an unsupervised drilling USNR(TAR) Seaman Apprentice? I was always Regular Navy but as a newly arrived RDSA made my first 20 cup pot of coffee aboard that DE only after I scoured the pot with Comet Cleanser. Sanitation being important. Amazing how you try to do the right thing and the outcome can be so horrid. Might be the same way with the NWC. Except that my reward was scouring the forward head till I became an RD2. I am a small details, minutia guy. But for neglecting the lunch and coffee aspects the article nicely pinned the junebug to the specimen board.
We've known for quite awhile that even our military graduate schools, are not bastions of conservative thought, let alone beacons of intellectual military theory. I recall hearing Victor Davis Hansen, speak about the time he was a guest lecturer at USNA, and was shocked at how many of the facility and the various course being taught, were....not what he'd expected from a school that's supposed to prepare future leaders for maritime conflict, instead more consumed with modern esoteric humanity questions and theoretical.
Its safe to say, that if you're in the academic field, regardless of capacity, location or, service, you've likely fallen in-line with the prevailing throught and dogma of the time, and low be the person that challenges the orthodoxy of academic accreditation and certification nationwide.
Col Kurt Schlichter always talks about his partying while at the Army War College. It seems that it's a far more serious venue than NAVWARCOL these days.
As Brad Miller has stated, we have and continue to suffer a “moral injury”. Simply put, we are disgusted with the current leadership, we have suffered injury and continue to do so and we demand reform.
He had three units, specially tailored for such events but, he chose to scrap them. Perhaps it was also evident that the footprint and format wasn't as capable as they hoped (do MV-22's have enough navigation and comms like CV-22's?) for the role.
As someone else once observed, "We need new elites".
Must be some good shit you’re smokin’...
Lay off the 'shrooms, or at least cut back to microdosing, dude.
Finding new ones ain't the problem. Some good ones would be nice.
I would settle for some actual leadership
Sal, but keep it (NWC) open so civilians, internationals, Army, Air Force, etc can attend & learn about sea power & other two thirds of globe! It is still the best place in US for neophytes to learn basics of sea power.
Best
John T Kuehn
Incumbent FADM King Professor
Naval War College
(They haven’t found a replacement for me yet!)
Fort Leavenworth Kansas
At least when you update your military disasters book you'll have the advantage of first hand perspective when you do the chapter on the fall of the Pentagon. 😁
Jetcal, you'll like this one:
Why did they build the Pentagon in the shape of a pentagon?
Because it was originally planned as an octagon, but they had to cut corners.
Okay, we'll leave NWC open for now. Still, what's happening there gives an entirely new lease on life to the idea of another BRAC.
.
All BRAC-jest aside, it's a shame we have so many "neophytes" in mid-career positions who must go to Newport to "learn basics of sea power." You're not wrong to say that, though. It's more a bitter reflection of the abysmally poor condition of US education, K-12, college, grad and professional skools. Begin with a poor foundation in history in general, US history broadly, and military history in particular; indeed, the History Mafia of modern academe actively shun the latter field. And couple that with generally bad understanding of basic geography across US culture, along with comic book level knowledge of economic geography, and failure to understand links between resources, extraction, industrial processing and long, complex supply chains that eventually lead to final assembly. That is, we have immense numbers of people in important places and jobs, but who are unlearned and fail to discern the distinction between having a true energy/industrial base, versus the mere optics of assembly plants that Lego-block stuff whose origins are far away, even across the wide blue seas.
.
Which brings us back to why we still need NWC, although under different management.
But a true energy/industrial base is ICKY, with icky people making money off it. When horizontal fracking took off here in the upper Ohio Valley, some thought "petrochemical complexes". That would support polymers, automotive, and other industries we have here.
There is an active campaign to stop that from happening.
Geez. Fort Leavenworth Kansas? Tough break, Sir. Shoot me your mailing address and I'll send a few bucks for your commissary account, some books, franked envelopes & stationary and buy you some telephone minutes. If you have a GoFundMe for an appeal, I'm in.
My commute is 14 minutes.
Save your money for gas & Tolls & higher mortgages
Auntie Em,
I hate Kansas. I'm leaving. I'm taking the dog.
Dorothy
Fort Leavenworth is quite nice actually. The OSI course was fun.
My eldest daughter lives in Manhattan, KS. Nice town. Friendly people, good eats.
short course or long course?
- CGSC Grad and former CALL staff
Civilians, internationals? Pah! You didn't read the fine print.
"THIS EVENT IS NOT OPEN TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC
This event is by invitation only."
" It is still the best place in US for neophytes to learn basics of sea power. "
Then let the neophytes attend and not waste time and money sending experienced naval officers to relearn the basics and pretend that attendance adds anything to their resume.
I was a civilian employee of the DOEnergy who got a scholarship to NWC in 2005-6. BTW, I live in KS. Every Army officer I talked to at Newport, who went to school at Ft. Leavenworth, LOVED their time here because one can live well on military salary and its a great place for families.
"Learning the basics of seapower" should not need a graduate school or graduate courses. Just... go read books. Why are you in this profession if you're not interested enough in it to read books about it.
Unfortunately the CNO-Professional Reading Program is inane. How the hell are Corbett and Mahan not on the list of 12 books?
It needed saying. Although this is likely to create a therapy dog billet at NWC.
We could borrow the Army's therapy dog. https://twitter.com/NoVA_Campaigns/status/1601302770761760768
pistol to the head
Oh my.
SMH...
Please, make the bad pictures go away. There are things you can’t un-see.
2 billets. One for the dog, one for the trainer.
They ae prepping the area for the nomination of the first testosterones free CNO. All hail our new Leader!
As for your critical topics list how about
"Getting Acquisition Right!"
- how do we figure out what our critical missions are? (Clue: fighting sexism is not on the list)
- What kinds of ships we need?
- how do we build high quality ships, that work, on time and under budget?
The current CNO seems pretty testosterone free to me.
Both funny and sad
I’m but a mere CGSC grad but admire a good historical example of application of professional military education….found this pearl among swine…War Room: US Army War College…Jonathan Klug , 16 Jan 2020….”Strategy Shaving with a Blowtorch “……isn’t this what Senior Service Colleges SHOULD BE DOING?
After he commanded the Lexington, King attended the Naval War College. In preparation for the annual wargame between the U.S. Navy and the Imperial Japanese Navy, the Department Head offered King the command of the U.S. Pacific Fleet if he followed the War College President’s desired route of attack. Characteristically, King replied “if ordered to use the wrong solution he would gladly do so…rather than miss the chance to command such a fleet.” King proved his abilities as a fleet commander during the war game but, as he often did, made life difficult for his superiors, especially when he was told how to do something rather than just what to do.
King’s strategic insight and ability to successfully argue against conventional wisdom and with senior leaders later proved to be essential when he was a member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Combined Chiefs of Staff. In these roles, he often fought with other members of the U.S. Chiefs of Staff as well as the British Chiefs of Staff Committee to secure more resources for the Pacific War. He irritated President Franklin D. Roosevelt on a few occasions, sometimes argued with Secretary of the Navy William Franklin Knox, and routinely fought with Secretary of the Navy James Forrestal. During strategic debates with the British, he even crossed verbal swords one of the most formidable statesmen and strategists of World War II Prime Minister Winston S. Churchill, often successfully. King won many of these strategic arguments, and the historical record shows he was right far more often than he was wrong.
Nice job grasshopper
Samuel Eliot Morrison said this of Ernest J. King: Roosevelt hated him, Marshall hated him, and even Churchill hated him. But nevertheless, Admiral King was one of the principle architects of Allied victory in World War II.
"You don't have to like me. You do have to be able to trust me."
King should have been relieved for his refusal to institute the convoy system after we entered the war. His Anglophobia and pigheadedness cost the Allies several hundred merchants and the lives of numerous merchant mariners. That bit of gross incompetence alone was reason enough for Roosevelt to can him. He was also slow to deal with the torpedo problem.
We lacked the bottoms to escort convoys at the beginning of the war.
The Brits offered to send some escorts over to help, King rebuffed them. Several tankers in convoy with just one DD escorting would have been better than them operating independently, especially at choke points like Cape Hatteras and the Straits of Florida.
King was a noted Anglophobe, supposedly due to treatment he received in Britain while on the staff of COMLANTFLT during WWI. Apparently, some RN officer or a few bruised his ego. He allowed his personal feelings to dictate his actions and that cost lives and ships.
Your list of issues (always) misses officer recruitment, education, and training. NWC breathes fire compared to USNA.
Was stationed in Newport in 1966-67 on a Destroyer Escort. My focus was never on the NWC. The only allure that Coaster's Island had for us sailors under the age of 21 was the the beer hall where ID cards were never checked and the weak, watery draft Narragansett beer was served in pitchers with plastic cups. It wasn't good beer but it was always cold and most important, cheap and available. Everything is cold in Newport for 11 months out of 12.
You mentioned lunch and a coffee break, Commander, but I didn't see any info on what was offered. Might have been instructive to know who catered lunch and what was on the menu. Grilled Spam and Velvetta sandwiches and Waldorf salad, soyburgers and Tater Tots from the chow hall? Hazelnut de-caf coffee in one of those 60 cup aluminum coffee makers made by an unsupervised drilling USNR(TAR) Seaman Apprentice? I was always Regular Navy but as a newly arrived RDSA made my first 20 cup pot of coffee aboard that DE only after I scoured the pot with Comet Cleanser. Sanitation being important. Amazing how you try to do the right thing and the outcome can be so horrid. Might be the same way with the NWC. Except that my reward was scouring the forward head till I became an RD2. I am a small details, minutia guy. But for neglecting the lunch and coffee aspects the article nicely pinned the junebug to the specimen board.
We've known for quite awhile that even our military graduate schools, are not bastions of conservative thought, let alone beacons of intellectual military theory. I recall hearing Victor Davis Hansen, speak about the time he was a guest lecturer at USNA, and was shocked at how many of the facility and the various course being taught, were....not what he'd expected from a school that's supposed to prepare future leaders for maritime conflict, instead more consumed with modern esoteric humanity questions and theoretical.
Its safe to say, that if you're in the academic field, regardless of capacity, location or, service, you've likely fallen in-line with the prevailing throught and dogma of the time, and low be the person that challenges the orthodoxy of academic accreditation and certification nationwide.
Wonder if they had a drag queen show during the evening social?
Line crossing ceremony?
Inspirational stuff... overcome by waves of nostalgia.
Col Kurt Schlichter always talks about his partying while at the Army War College. It seems that it's a far more serious venue than NAVWARCOL these days.
I hear this rockstar woman has recently freed up her calendar and will be the keynote speaker at the conference...
https://twitter.com/CollinRugg_/status/1651154652212150273?s=20
2X NWC graduate (1973 and 1984). This is incredible (in a very bad way). I assume that this sort of drivel is being driven from the top.
As Brad Miller has stated, we have and continue to suffer a “moral injury”. Simply put, we are disgusted with the current leadership, we have suffered injury and continue to do so and we demand reform.
https://bradmiller10.substack.com/p/moral-injury
interesting; thank you
This is what happens when the institutions become corrupt.
I had a senior Chief I worked for a few years back comment that all this tolerance stuff was basically saying don’t be an asshole to people.
Though I already knew the answer, I had to ask the question:
“If that’s what they mean, why would they need to throw a word salad at us?”
Again, I knew the answer.
Timely
https://centerforsecuritypolicy.org/the-us-marine-corps-missing-in-action/
Berger isn't wrong to point out the problems with USN acquisition and procurement however, regarding Sudan, he only has himself to blame.
https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/your-marine-corps/2022/03/18/marine-corps-ends-all-3-of-its-crisis-response-deployments/
He had three units, specially tailored for such events but, he chose to scrap them. Perhaps it was also evident that the footprint and format wasn't as capable as they hoped (do MV-22's have enough navigation and comms like CV-22's?) for the role.
Berger is the reason there is a problem.
LAW is the USMC's LCS ... as with most things with USMC, they are late to the acquisition party so it is happening 20 years later.