Good point. Could it be size of their merchant fleets vs what we need?
Did some work during undergrad days on an oceanographic ship. Third mate fresh out of Kings Point bemoaned the shrinking of the merchant fleet. He zeroed in on the Lykes Line.
As a harbor pilot, 98 percent of the vessels I con are foreign flagged. Western Europeans, Scandinavians, and Americans are vanishing because they are being replaced by Cheaper labor from India, the Philippines and Slavic countries.
The stalwart Norwegian and Scandinavian shipping lines are replacing their countrymen with cheap labor. Look no further than the manning of STOLT-Nielsen, Odjfell, and Wallanius.
Nonsense. It was the growth of flags of convenience after WW2 that undercut the US and European flags by allowing the recruitment of third world crews with third world payscales (when they were paid).
You can always have a federal income tax exclusion for mariners while at sea. We do that for military members in a combat zone, which only needs to be one day per month. I remember tanker crews flying into and landing in a combat zone on the last day of a month, then taking off on the first day of the next month. Two months, no taxes.
Shout out to US Merchant Marine graduate, Jack Perkuhn, 1976!
Fred Perkuhn helped train me in NYC Turn Verein and Berkeley, CA 1968-1974.
Jack stared on Broadway “Oliver”! The Artful Dodger, about 1966. Jack and I were good childhood friends! Jack cheered for me when I won First Prize in Floor Exercise, 1967-1968. I won First Prize All Around in 1976, Long Island City.
Jack went Merchant Marine Academy Kings Point, NY … I went OIS Newport, Road Island.
Please say hi to Jack Perkuhn! Thank you! Nurse Jane
My merchant mariner Dad looks on from a faraway sea and smiles. 'tis a worthy task to re-build the fleet he loved so then; and does yet. Fair winds, all ye...
This is utter bullshit. MSC has a manning issue because they treat Civmars like they're military and don't pay them competitively. We already make more officers than the industry can absorb and have spent the last generation making it harder for those who don't attend academies to become licenced. How about instead MSC start paying properly and not leaving guys on ships without relief? Not hiring shitbirds as unlicenced would also be tremendously helpful.
The fact that the reserve fleet could not sortie when they did the big exercise in 2019 (or was it 18?) should have been a wake up call but I'd bet the next paycheck that nothing has been done and the situation has only gotten worse.
The National Security Multi-Mission Vessels (NSMV) for the United States Maritime Administration (MARAD) training mission will all soon be online. Getting people signed up for the training and excited about a career in the Merchant Marine is needed. I think Salvatore R. Mercogliano would be the person to ask as to how we do that. All the pieces to start this program are in place.
With respect to Sal, he has some shortcomings wrt operations and construction. His discussion of the loss of the HMNZS Manawanui would have been better had he understood the operation of that class vessel and autopilot usage in coastal waters.
Admiral Buzby, my old boss, was wise to get that program done. The utilization of 50 year old RRF ships by the Academy was no longer sustainable.
Maritime academy interest and participation has been steady as the job placement rates for Academy graduates surpass other degree plans and the jobs afforded are well paying.
The issue is less than 10 percent of every graduating class go to Sea for a multitude of reasons.
The interest is there , the bodies are there, enticing them to sail is the issue.
Lowest hanging fruit, require every KP graduate to sail as pay off for their education as well as ROTC recipients of the State Academies with MSC being first priority and RRF second. KP has a joke of a commitment upon graduation compared to the other service academies.
For unlicensed, there are several institutions nationwide training new mariners. Implement a tuition assistance program with Naval Reserve and active sailing commitment not unlike ROTC.
The interest is there, the bodies are there, how they are being utilized is the problem.
Remember we have an entire inland trade with professional mariners , the blue water fleet has been reduced to Coastwise to lack of profitability but despite all that we have seven thriving maritime academies and multiple unlicensed vocational schools both at the high school and community college levels.
IF . . . the U.S. does actually take the task of resurrecting, restoring, and infusing capability in the Merchant Marine Fleet . . . then perhaps we should begin to build modern and capable MERSHIPS for them to command, operate, and maintain. Ports for them to operate from, and to be maintained from as they support the activities of the new U.S. MERSHIP Fleet. Either we are serious or we are not. The laws since WWII were written to support the activity . . . and the industry walked away from it to SAVE MONEY. Now we know what their religion is…and it has nothing to do with a solid U.S. economy, strong $$$, and employment for our citizens.
The Maritime Academies are on track, and everyone else is . . . doing something else. Donald ought to beat them up. It is the only way things will change. I guess that is why we had “Fight Night’ at the White House!
Great interview. Three years into this advocacy work, I've learned to listen before talking. Brent's line about getting "lost in our own museum" is the most honest self-diagnosis I've heard in this space. The frustrations here are real — but he's one of the few actually mapping a way out. The Tidal Wave numbers alone should be setting off alarms. --- Bill
My uncle Buford was in the merchant Marine, oh the tales he would tell!
He went in service in the late thirties and served during the war, said his ship, a petroleum transporter was a well known one in the Atlantic, the "SS floating Target" LOL He and my Army Dad used to fuss about who was at a bigger risk.
There’s much and more that needs to be addressed here.
I don’t believe I heard the Jones Act mentioned once.
When discussing the Merchant Marine, you are discussing Commercial or Commerce fleet which is based solely on profitability.
The US Merchant fleet today only exists due to the Jones Act as it is no longer commercially viable and is heavily subsidized. Look at ARC, American Roll On/ Roll Off vessels, ostensibly a subsidiary of Wallanius. Exxon- Mobil no longer has a US Fleet hence Seariver only has foreign flag vessels. How many of our shipyards are foreign owned? Even our revitalization has foreign companies buying and building national assets.
The World today is governed by globalization which was not even mentioned as we, as a Nation, have subcontracted, the majority of our manufacturing and labor due to cost.
A modern model can NOT look backwards as we simply are not commercially viable when third world countries can build and crew ships for a fraction of the cost.
Under the current economic construct, our National interest cannot rely on the commercial world as we did a century ago but must build them into our national defense budget as part of the military or heavily subsidize so that they could compete commercially as some revenue is better than 100 percent tax funded.
Functions provided by commercial providers almost a century ago must now be accounted for in our national defense construct as we no longer have the competitive commercial means to support.
MSC/ CLF vessels must be transitioned to USS . Or we man them with Merchant Mariners who are all Naval Reservists. Every KP graduate is required to maintain their Commissions for 8 years. Require every KP graduate to sail in the US Fleet/ MSC as they currently have no real commitment upon graduation like other service academies. Additionally, require every state academy graduate who is ROTC to sail as part of their graduate requirement. Ready Reserve ships must be overseen by USN and crewed by minimum Naval Reserve. Additional support requirements will require subsidies in order to be commercially viable. Offer tuition assistance akin to ROTC to students attending unlicensed maritime schools such as San Jacinto CC in Houston. Require recipients to sail in the US Fleet/ MSC for a period of time. Remember less than 10 percent of all maritime academy graduates go to sea upon graduation.
The old model of American industrial dominance no longer exists. Investing in infrastructure and workforce is not commercially viable, we cost too much unless subsidies level the playing field.
Acta non Verba ⚓
The thing that killed the US Merchant fleet was the cost of labor.
If that were true, the Norwegians and Danes would not have any merchant fleet.
Good point. Could it be size of their merchant fleets vs what we need?
Did some work during undergrad days on an oceanographic ship. Third mate fresh out of Kings Point bemoaned the shrinking of the merchant fleet. He zeroed in on the Lykes Line.
Well, Norwegian and Danish-flagged ships I have seen in US ports have crews that… certainly don’t look or sound Norwegian or Danish.
As a harbor pilot, 98 percent of the vessels I con are foreign flagged. Western Europeans, Scandinavians, and Americans are vanishing because they are being replaced by Cheaper labor from India, the Philippines and Slavic countries.
The stalwart Norwegian and Scandinavian shipping lines are replacing their countrymen with cheap labor. Look no further than the manning of STOLT-Nielsen, Odjfell, and Wallanius.
Cheap labor rules the day.
Nonsense. It was the growth of flags of convenience after WW2 that undercut the US and European flags by allowing the recruitment of third world crews with third world payscales (when they were paid).
I agree.
I don’t see any hope for the U. S. Merchant Marine without high tariffs.
Why would anyone build a ship in America or hire an American crew if it can be built and manned cheaper elsewhere?
It’s not personal. It’s just business.
If Captain Sadler has some other ideas I would love to hear them.
You can always have a federal income tax exclusion for mariners while at sea. We do that for military members in a combat zone, which only needs to be one day per month. I remember tanker crews flying into and landing in a combat zone on the last day of a month, then taking off on the first day of the next month. Two months, no taxes.
Better yet-- no income taxes on mariners sailing on Foreign Articles -
Shout out to US Merchant Marine graduate, Jack Perkuhn, 1976!
Fred Perkuhn helped train me in NYC Turn Verein and Berkeley, CA 1968-1974.
Jack stared on Broadway “Oliver”! The Artful Dodger, about 1966. Jack and I were good childhood friends! Jack cheered for me when I won First Prize in Floor Exercise, 1967-1968. I won First Prize All Around in 1976, Long Island City.
Jack went Merchant Marine Academy Kings Point, NY … I went OIS Newport, Road Island.
Please say hi to Jack Perkuhn! Thank you! Nurse Jane
My merchant mariner Dad looks on from a faraway sea and smiles. 'tis a worthy task to re-build the fleet he loved so then; and does yet. Fair winds, all ye...
This is utter bullshit. MSC has a manning issue because they treat Civmars like they're military and don't pay them competitively. We already make more officers than the industry can absorb and have spent the last generation making it harder for those who don't attend academies to become licenced. How about instead MSC start paying properly and not leaving guys on ships without relief? Not hiring shitbirds as unlicenced would also be tremendously helpful.
Also the Navy should treat MSC with a little bit more respect.
The fact that the reserve fleet could not sortie when they did the big exercise in 2019 (or was it 18?) should have been a wake up call but I'd bet the next paycheck that nothing has been done and the situation has only gotten worse.
The National Security Multi-Mission Vessels (NSMV) for the United States Maritime Administration (MARAD) training mission will all soon be online. Getting people signed up for the training and excited about a career in the Merchant Marine is needed. I think Salvatore R. Mercogliano would be the person to ask as to how we do that. All the pieces to start this program are in place.
MARAD has failed miserably in its primary mission of promoting the merchant fleet. Why is it still around?
With respect to Sal, he has some shortcomings wrt operations and construction. His discussion of the loss of the HMNZS Manawanui would have been better had he understood the operation of that class vessel and autopilot usage in coastal waters.
Your EXPERT?
Admiral Buzby, my old boss, was wise to get that program done. The utilization of 50 year old RRF ships by the Academy was no longer sustainable.
Maritime academy interest and participation has been steady as the job placement rates for Academy graduates surpass other degree plans and the jobs afforded are well paying.
The issue is less than 10 percent of every graduating class go to Sea for a multitude of reasons.
The interest is there , the bodies are there, enticing them to sail is the issue.
Lowest hanging fruit, require every KP graduate to sail as pay off for their education as well as ROTC recipients of the State Academies with MSC being first priority and RRF second. KP has a joke of a commitment upon graduation compared to the other service academies.
For unlicensed, there are several institutions nationwide training new mariners. Implement a tuition assistance program with Naval Reserve and active sailing commitment not unlike ROTC.
The interest is there, the bodies are there, how they are being utilized is the problem.
Remember we have an entire inland trade with professional mariners , the blue water fleet has been reduced to Coastwise to lack of profitability but despite all that we have seven thriving maritime academies and multiple unlicensed vocational schools both at the high school and community college levels.
We need to get smarter.
IF . . . the U.S. does actually take the task of resurrecting, restoring, and infusing capability in the Merchant Marine Fleet . . . then perhaps we should begin to build modern and capable MERSHIPS for them to command, operate, and maintain. Ports for them to operate from, and to be maintained from as they support the activities of the new U.S. MERSHIP Fleet. Either we are serious or we are not. The laws since WWII were written to support the activity . . . and the industry walked away from it to SAVE MONEY. Now we know what their religion is…and it has nothing to do with a solid U.S. economy, strong $$$, and employment for our citizens.
The Maritime Academies are on track, and everyone else is . . . doing something else. Donald ought to beat them up. It is the only way things will change. I guess that is why we had “Fight Night’ at the White House!
Great interview. Three years into this advocacy work, I've learned to listen before talking. Brent's line about getting "lost in our own museum" is the most honest self-diagnosis I've heard in this space. The frustrations here are real — but he's one of the few actually mapping a way out. The Tidal Wave numbers alone should be setting off alarms. --- Bill
My uncle Buford was in the merchant Marine, oh the tales he would tell!
He went in service in the late thirties and served during the war, said his ship, a petroleum transporter was a well known one in the Atlantic, the "SS floating Target" LOL He and my Army Dad used to fuss about who was at a bigger risk.
He was a cool customer.
We need the Merchant Marine.
There’s much and more that needs to be addressed here.
I don’t believe I heard the Jones Act mentioned once.
When discussing the Merchant Marine, you are discussing Commercial or Commerce fleet which is based solely on profitability.
The US Merchant fleet today only exists due to the Jones Act as it is no longer commercially viable and is heavily subsidized. Look at ARC, American Roll On/ Roll Off vessels, ostensibly a subsidiary of Wallanius. Exxon- Mobil no longer has a US Fleet hence Seariver only has foreign flag vessels. How many of our shipyards are foreign owned? Even our revitalization has foreign companies buying and building national assets.
The World today is governed by globalization which was not even mentioned as we, as a Nation, have subcontracted, the majority of our manufacturing and labor due to cost.
A modern model can NOT look backwards as we simply are not commercially viable when third world countries can build and crew ships for a fraction of the cost.
Under the current economic construct, our National interest cannot rely on the commercial world as we did a century ago but must build them into our national defense budget as part of the military or heavily subsidize so that they could compete commercially as some revenue is better than 100 percent tax funded.
Functions provided by commercial providers almost a century ago must now be accounted for in our national defense construct as we no longer have the competitive commercial means to support.
MSC/ CLF vessels must be transitioned to USS . Or we man them with Merchant Mariners who are all Naval Reservists. Every KP graduate is required to maintain their Commissions for 8 years. Require every KP graduate to sail in the US Fleet/ MSC as they currently have no real commitment upon graduation like other service academies. Additionally, require every state academy graduate who is ROTC to sail as part of their graduate requirement. Ready Reserve ships must be overseen by USN and crewed by minimum Naval Reserve. Additional support requirements will require subsidies in order to be commercially viable. Offer tuition assistance akin to ROTC to students attending unlicensed maritime schools such as San Jacinto CC in Houston. Require recipients to sail in the US Fleet/ MSC for a period of time. Remember less than 10 percent of all maritime academy graduates go to sea upon graduation.
The old model of American industrial dominance no longer exists. Investing in infrastructure and workforce is not commercially viable, we cost too much unless subsidies level the playing field.
These requirements are now a cost of governance.