Say what you will, but I love the way the Brits name their ships.
Yeah, don't break up your ships just because they are old. Some of the museum ships with a little renovation, could provide shock and surprise by just showing up.
Don't obsess on the VLS, but look at overall cell count. No need for Tomahawks to point up until they need to, move them over onto Overlord / MUSVs. We could easily convert a few of them while building a few new each year. In the timeline these life extensions are happening we could be rounding out the bottom of the fleet.
Needs must when the devil drives. Very old saying, true then (see Canopus) and true now. You may not want to do it, but it is way better than doing...nothing. Which is what you are doing now. Suspect this idea might actually get a hearing under the new SecDef, unlike the current occupant.
Excellent suggestions. As a side note, Canopus could have saved Cradock and the other UK ships. Her apparently deranged Chief Engineer grossly understated her possible speed, leading to the decision to detach her to the Falklands. WSC thought Cradock to be OK, as he had a "Ship of force" upon which to retire if need be. Of course after Goeben, and the subsequent Courts Martial, no British officer was going to retire from anything approaching equal force. Still, a touch of PEB might have changed a lot.
"This is an area where native trees are being restored and the coconut palms, that have taken over and prevent any other kind of tree from growing, are being removed."
Those old ships forward deployed as missile defense umbrellas would be a huge reenlistment (and retention) incentive for many sailors...says this old Yokosuka station sailor who almost went Asiatic in the 70's. The only thing that "saved" me (and my liver) from going Asiatic was getting force-converted from Radarman to Electronics Warfare Technician in 1972.
An excellent short (snort!) term solution while the missile defense of Guam winds it's way through the byzantine labyrinth of myriad agencies.
However, these are not billets for first term ratings. These need to be billets like the LCS was supposed to be. Decrepit equipment needs the loving touch of an experienced sailor. Just plan on them being commissioned at least 2x long as expected. Perhaps even an expedited order for two or three new drydocks from one of our local friends.
One of the interesting things about service in a field that demands technical acumen: the most talented resources may be required to eek par performance out of the least glamorous assignments.
In recent speculative discussions with colleagues, I was told "there's (another weapon system) in Guam already. Between that system already in Guam and other AEGIS-capable ships afloat in the AOR to fill gaps, there is no requirement to deploy an AEGIS-ashore system on to Guam. Besides AEGIS-afloat on a ship works better than AEGIS-ashore." I was dubious as to that rational and claim. But if there's old ships with capable weapons that can stay near Guam as pickets, and are able to keep Guam under an air defense umbrella, something shooting is better than nothing.
Not only is this a great idea, but reality is the navy in cooperation with Pacific Command should find a way to extend them even further for that idea of defense once it gets time for another overhaul and they don't want to pay for it. The idea of a mobile battery of SAM's that doesn't have to be on the high seas yet can provide fantastic defense is great, cost affordable since they are paid for, and less maintenance due to less steaming. It would also make sense to look at even more of the Tico's for the same task. Consider things such as which warships protect our sub bases and repair bases in CT and ME? Er, yep, zero the hero. How bout bases we build ships out of not in VA as another one? Tico's could protect the very shipyards that solely produce military ships but are not naval yards, and frankly if I was Russian or Chinese would be on my cruise missile hit parade list for month one to ensure the fleet the US has is the only thing to worry about in the next 18 months. skeleton crews, reserves, figure out the manning (and putting civies into all the non combat jobs, like HR, training, PR and putting those sailors onto combat ships and in repair jobs- trained- makes sense especially if the modest upgrade to budget is still outweighed by the fact civvies with a background in those things do it more efficiently and not housed/don't face non job training requirements/less benefits in pay, so their addition is not as great as just recruiting/moving more sailors. SECNAV should at this stage also be considering reserve crews for very old ships and not fully retiring them, and hey, instead of putting LA class subs still capable but due to be retired into their "forever" homes in WA, instead how bout giving them to the Aussies and Canucks? They can throw a few hundred million into each rather than buying a new nuke for 2 bil plus and that basically augments our fleet by several more subs without buying a single sub. Time to get creative here...
I'd give the SpaceX boys more credit than the Pentagon; Look at where alot of their network aggregation points are- sure as heck not in areas you'd look, like in the middle of the Maine woods, up past Duluth in Minnesota, etc. They put more thought into deployment than the armed forces did on bases..
Long-term denizens of the Back Porch are familiar with the story of Admiral von Spee and his East Asiatic Squadron at the beginning of the First World War. But we're getting references from Instapundit who may not be familar...and it's one of the great, tragic naval epics.
Summary: Admiral von Spee was in the Pacific when war broke out in August 1914. He had two armored cruisers, four light cruisers...and no good way to get home. He sent SMS Emden into the Indian Ocean for commerce raiding, took the rest of the squadron into the Pacific to tie up the RN. Encountered a British squadron off the coast of Chile in December, sank same. This led to the RN dispatching two battlecruisers...who met up with von Spee at the Falklands. Both armored cruisers were sunk, the remaining light cruisers scattered.
It's a story of brave men put into a hopeless position, figuring out how to do as much damage to the enemy as possible before their own inevitable fate.
On both sides. Cradock knew he hadn't much chance at Coronel, but took on von Spee regardless, to do as much damage as possible. When Canopus was fired on by mistake after reaching the Falklands, her captain thought von Spee was in possession, and steamed into Stanley harbor to do as much damage as possible before being shelled to pieces. Then when Sturdee caught up with von Spee, the German turned his armored cruisers back to do as much damage as possible to his pursuers and give his smaller ships a chance.
I would say navy leadership thinking selling an existing design to congress would be easier also gets credit. Then Congress for insisting on sm-6 and Tomahawk capability.
(Potentially) desperate times require desperate measures, and this is less desperate than many.
Old is better than nothing in the age of declining budgets and fiscal insanity.
Somebody said it better than me so I'm stealing their line. "Build Burkes to the crack of doom."
Add in to that plan, sand and paint legacy Burkes to the crack of doom ... with durable paint that stays stuck to metal.
Say what you will, but I love the way the Brits name their ships.
Yeah, don't break up your ships just because they are old. Some of the museum ships with a little renovation, could provide shock and surprise by just showing up.
The Constellation FFG's aren't coming fast enough. We need hulls/VLS cells now. Most of us on the porch saw this coming for a long time.
Don't obsess on the VLS, but look at overall cell count. No need for Tomahawks to point up until they need to, move them over onto Overlord / MUSVs. We could easily convert a few of them while building a few new each year. In the timeline these life extensions are happening we could be rounding out the bottom of the fleet.
Needs must when the devil drives. Very old saying, true then (see Canopus) and true now. You may not want to do it, but it is way better than doing...nothing. Which is what you are doing now. Suspect this idea might actually get a hearing under the new SecDef, unlike the current occupant.
"You don't have to like it. You just have to do it."
Excellent suggestions. As a side note, Canopus could have saved Cradock and the other UK ships. Her apparently deranged Chief Engineer grossly understated her possible speed, leading to the decision to detach her to the Falklands. WSC thought Cradock to be OK, as he had a "Ship of force" upon which to retire if need be. Of course after Goeben, and the subsequent Courts Martial, no British officer was going to retire from anything approaching equal force. Still, a touch of PEB might have changed a lot.
"apparently deranged Chief Engineer" is one evocative turn of phrase.
Crete's a nice place for a reserve rotation, so is Eliat. Diego Garcia is not desirable
Don't knock DG. A beautiful woman behind every cocoanut tree.
Of course the British Government is removing coconuts as an invasive species and replacing them with native trees. So get while the get'n is good!
https://www.biot.gov.io/environment/terrestrial-protected-areas/plantation-trail/
"This is an area where native trees are being restored and the coconut palms, that have taken over and prevent any other kind of tree from growing, are being removed."
and they ran off all the natives
Some of my men might have missed the mark and hit the tree
Those old ships forward deployed as missile defense umbrellas would be a huge reenlistment (and retention) incentive for many sailors...says this old Yokosuka station sailor who almost went Asiatic in the 70's. The only thing that "saved" me (and my liver) from going Asiatic was getting force-converted from Radarman to Electronics Warfare Technician in 1972.
On behalf of many of us here, I am exceedingly pleased that you and your liver survived:)
An excellent short (snort!) term solution while the missile defense of Guam winds it's way through the byzantine labyrinth of myriad agencies.
However, these are not billets for first term ratings. These need to be billets like the LCS was supposed to be. Decrepit equipment needs the loving touch of an experienced sailor. Just plan on them being commissioned at least 2x long as expected. Perhaps even an expedited order for two or three new drydocks from one of our local friends.
One of the interesting things about service in a field that demands technical acumen: the most talented resources may be required to eek par performance out of the least glamorous assignments.
In recent speculative discussions with colleagues, I was told "there's (another weapon system) in Guam already. Between that system already in Guam and other AEGIS-capable ships afloat in the AOR to fill gaps, there is no requirement to deploy an AEGIS-ashore system on to Guam. Besides AEGIS-afloat on a ship works better than AEGIS-ashore." I was dubious as to that rational and claim. But if there's old ships with capable weapons that can stay near Guam as pickets, and are able to keep Guam under an air defense umbrella, something shooting is better than nothing.
and frankly, AEGIS ashore is going to act the same way a missile field acts in North Dakota, aka a sponge.
Not only is this a great idea, but reality is the navy in cooperation with Pacific Command should find a way to extend them even further for that idea of defense once it gets time for another overhaul and they don't want to pay for it. The idea of a mobile battery of SAM's that doesn't have to be on the high seas yet can provide fantastic defense is great, cost affordable since they are paid for, and less maintenance due to less steaming. It would also make sense to look at even more of the Tico's for the same task. Consider things such as which warships protect our sub bases and repair bases in CT and ME? Er, yep, zero the hero. How bout bases we build ships out of not in VA as another one? Tico's could protect the very shipyards that solely produce military ships but are not naval yards, and frankly if I was Russian or Chinese would be on my cruise missile hit parade list for month one to ensure the fleet the US has is the only thing to worry about in the next 18 months. skeleton crews, reserves, figure out the manning (and putting civies into all the non combat jobs, like HR, training, PR and putting those sailors onto combat ships and in repair jobs- trained- makes sense especially if the modest upgrade to budget is still outweighed by the fact civvies with a background in those things do it more efficiently and not housed/don't face non job training requirements/less benefits in pay, so their addition is not as great as just recruiting/moving more sailors. SECNAV should at this stage also be considering reserve crews for very old ships and not fully retiring them, and hey, instead of putting LA class subs still capable but due to be retired into their "forever" homes in WA, instead how bout giving them to the Aussies and Canucks? They can throw a few hundred million into each rather than buying a new nuke for 2 bil plus and that basically augments our fleet by several more subs without buying a single sub. Time to get creative here...
Sure as heck Groton CT and Bath ME feature prominently on target lists. BTW, so is every SpaceX launch facility.
I'd give the SpaceX boys more credit than the Pentagon; Look at where alot of their network aggregation points are- sure as heck not in areas you'd look, like in the middle of the Maine woods, up past Duluth in Minnesota, etc. They put more thought into deployment than the armed forces did on bases..
Long-term denizens of the Back Porch are familiar with the story of Admiral von Spee and his East Asiatic Squadron at the beginning of the First World War. But we're getting references from Instapundit who may not be familar...and it's one of the great, tragic naval epics.
Summary: Admiral von Spee was in the Pacific when war broke out in August 1914. He had two armored cruisers, four light cruisers...and no good way to get home. He sent SMS Emden into the Indian Ocean for commerce raiding, took the rest of the squadron into the Pacific to tie up the RN. Encountered a British squadron off the coast of Chile in December, sank same. This led to the RN dispatching two battlecruisers...who met up with von Spee at the Falklands. Both armored cruisers were sunk, the remaining light cruisers scattered.
It's a story of brave men put into a hopeless position, figuring out how to do as much damage to the enemy as possible before their own inevitable fate.
We are refighting the Falkland Islands.
I can only imagine what will happen if Sal brings up the Dardanelles or Jutland.
On both sides. Cradock knew he hadn't much chance at Coronel, but took on von Spee regardless, to do as much damage as possible. When Canopus was fired on by mistake after reaching the Falklands, her captain thought von Spee was in possession, and steamed into Stanley harbor to do as much damage as possible before being shelled to pieces. Then when Sturdee caught up with von Spee, the German turned his armored cruisers back to do as much damage as possible to his pursuers and give his smaller ships a chance.
Very sensible.
I hope this measure truly is just a stopgap until new ships join the fleet.
My fear is that those new ships won't be coming any time soon and that we will end up with ships held together with glue and scotch tape.
Your fear is actual reality. We are looking at a decade or 2. The LSC is vaporware. The Constellation is a shitshow of NAVSEA incompetence.
I would say navy leadership thinking selling an existing design to congress would be easier also gets credit. Then Congress for insisting on sm-6 and Tomahawk capability.
Glad to see you say this, CDR Sal...been saying it myself for years.
YES! This is good news! YES!
Sure it will be a PITA keeping them operational. However, there are times when ANY ship is better than NO ship.
Better to have a PiTA than lose your ass.
Pain preferable to absence?