281 Comments

Sal, I understand that the tears were when Heussgen was relieved being the chairman of MSC (Jens Stoltenberg will take over next year). It does not take away from the substance you point out, but it is unfortunate to use this terrible fake spin from some U.S.circles to open.

Also, Roll Tide.

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I would argue that is even less of a reason to cry...but point taken. Also Sebastian...thank you for checking in. I miss you "over there" and hope that 2025 finds you well and good. Please do check in now and then when you're working on something interesting, I'd hate to miss it.

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You had a like until that Roll Tide

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The tenth point of my ten point set of filters for alliance with the US:

10. You must accept, as part of your domestic law, the American Bill of Rights as interpreted by the United States Supreme Court. If you do not, then a) clearly we are politically incompatible and b) you are just another tyranny and not worth defending.

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After WW I Europe was a miserable mess, a bit more Charlie Foxtrot than before.

I had attributed it to civil evolution.

I see Europe as unredeemable more flawed than the underground bureaucracy that ran US the past 4 years.

George Washington warned about foreign entanglement. Today Europe is CF.

Europe is on its own…

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Let Europe stew in its own juices.

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The full ten point list would show them as mere imperial provinces in the American Empire.

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After watching the full speech my takeaway was: "If you think we are going to continue spending blood and treasure protecting this strange amalgam of nanny state and police state, you're out of your minds."

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I hope Sir Keir Starmer visits the magnificent monument to the Light Brigade near Sebastopol before he commits the remnants of the British Army to Ukraine.

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The revolution of 1776, which a number of my ancestors participated in, scared the crap out of European elites of the day, including the French who helped us for their own Machiavellian purposes. The idea of the populace making their own decisions was outrageous. The idea of every citizen maintaining arms against the possible need to do the whole thing over again was outrageous, as was free speech, freedom of religion, freedom of assembly, freedom from unreasonable searches..... You get the idea. We could have gone the way of the French Revolution and ended up with a dictatorship. Instead, the first seven US presidents, who all had personal experience and memories of the war, held the line and our republic, giving us a much more stable beginning than we probably deserved. Whereas, every European democracy has a kernel of "the elite knows better" at its core. We have tripped on that stone many times, including the Civil War and the passage of the 16th, 17th, and 18th Amendments (Thank you soooo much President Wilson) but we have not yet gone down. Remind me, how many "republics" have the French had? So, don't be surprised that when we stand for actual, red-blooded American values we STILL scare the crap out of them. That does not mean we should back off and play nice. Playing nice with evil is how we got to where we are. V.P. Vance was entirely right in calling out our friends for their obvious failures to protect the natural rights of their citizens, as opposed to the artificial "right" to not be offended.

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Wilson?

Horrible prog president.

Federal Reserve and fiat money.

Red Scare. Palmer raids.

Jailing political opponents like Debs.

Promised not to get us into war. How did that go?

His 14 Points and Treaty of Versailles made another war inevitable.

Deep recession following the war.

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Wilson despised the Constitution and the Bill of Rights because they got in his way in his attempt to make the world better.

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a prototype EU 'Crat

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Alan: Yes, indeed. The Europeans still cannot accept what happened at Lexington and Concord, when a bunch of pissed off colonials of British and European heritage took matters into their own hands and gave the powdered wig class a taste of lead.

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If anything does destroy our Republic, the 16th, 17th, and 18th will have been the seeds of our demise.

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In bomber parlance, "SHACK!"

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In the interest of *comity*, not comedy. What ignoramus was responsible for reviewing the transcript?

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A computer. That is a good catch though. I'll correct my copy.

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It is always the computer's fault. I think that it is the 4th law.

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Sometimes it's the software more than the hardware, other times the opposite!

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The Colby interview transcript has Mullen heading the "Joint Jesus Staff" and Colin Pell the "Drunt Hues Staff."

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Haha...beat me to it! I couldn't decide if it was a mistake or ironic commentary...

What is ironic is that the upshot of all of the reaction to being taken to task for abandoning our common Western ideals and philosophy is to begin spending more on their collective defense and taking on more responsibility and accountability for European security.

Isn't that exactly what Trump has been asking for them to do since his first term? That they have been reticent to do, even after Russia invaded Ukraine? But assail their nanny state, Orwellian power structure and they give Trump everything he asked for.

Apparently Trump gets what he wants whether they cooperate or oppose him.

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“Russia is a giant threat on the verge of invading!! Why won’t Trump save us. What a Nazi.” “Why won’t you save yourself?” “I don’t fight. I like nice wine and cheese.”

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Thank you for writing this.

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Ditto. It was a finely crafted post.

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I agree with you. It seems like most of the negative critics heard a different speech than the one the VP gave.

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Safe to say, like the leftists we see here in the US, many that attended had already made up their minds on how they would react regardless of what was said. Depending on the political party that person is, will determine their response, irregardless of the content of their speech.

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Great commentary here, thank you.

Every rebellious or industrious person who couldn't stand the stifling nature of Europe has fled to America for the last three centuries and it shows.

The torch of the West has decisively passed to the United States and it's never going back.

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Vance decided to use half-truths … I guess there is an agreement not to fact-check?

E.g. Smith-Connor was not arrested nor convicted for praying.

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Feel free to share a link here in comments.

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Great answer...I look forward to reading it, if provided...big if.

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He was arrested. “Smith-Connor was found guilty of breaching the local government's Public Spaces Protection Order in October, nearly two years after standing outside an abortion facility with his head bowed in silent prayer.”

I think the law is like; not allowed to have a silent vigil within 200 feet of an abortion clinic.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/uk-man-arrested-praying-outside-abortion-clinic-praises-vance-bringing-attention-case.amp

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Legal fees can bankrupt a family. The Left is a master at lawfare and canceling people.

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"Southampton-born veteran Adam Smith-Connor was convicted for silently praying outside an abortion clinic last year."

The law makes silent prayer within 492 (500!) feet illegal. That's literally 1.5 city blocks away.

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Sir Keir Starmer the moderate is no different that the far-out leftist Jeremy Corbin.

Starmer is more circumspect which is why he was chosen to replace Corbin who never hid his true intentions.

Both are totalitarians.

BTW, has anyone in Labour ever actually worked in a factory or on a farm or are they all just a bunch of lawyers?

Until Neil Farage is Prime Minister the UK can go its own way.

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Probably Animal Farm...

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Actually Mr. Smith-Connor was arrested and convicted at the Poole Magistrate's Court (UK) for violating the Public Space Protection Order (under the powers granted by section 59 of the Anti-social Behaviour Crime and Policing Act 2014). Prayer is not considered a crime under English law. However there are certain circumstances, as outlined in this particular Public Space Protection Order, where it can be a punishable act.

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Sir Keir would send Jesus to the Tower.

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Yes, arrested for refusing to move on from silently praying is a sick burn, you really put CDR in his place. You've mastered a distinction without a difference.

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Yes. Was some like not allowed a silent vigil with 500 feet of clinic. But most definitely was not “praying”!!! Lol.

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Scottish fascists have applied to people praying in their own homes if it is within the 500' zone.

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The Sermon on the Mount would be illegal in Starmer’s Britain.

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You DO realize (don’t you?) that the interwebs make it real easy to fact check?

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Outstanding, thank you. As a career soldier who spent much of his life serving and living in Germany and Europe and as someone who has maintained life-long friendships with Germans and Brits (who despair at what their respective countries have become under their thoroughly undemocratic and reactionary political class), I believe it vital that Vance and others speak so clearly and eloquently. May such remarks and the current Administration's forceful policies inspire and nurture a bottom-up democratic revolution across Europe that enables the people to chart their own course that is consistent with bedrock Western values.

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He was speeking past the room directly to the populous. J.D.s Memaw would very proud of the grandkid with hillbilly roots in Jackson KY.

Vance 2028 !!

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Have you asked your friends what they thought of the speech, as well as the opinion of their countrymen? We are only hearing about the bureaucrats and media losing their minds. What about the average citizen, I’m curious what they think.

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I think you are looking at Vance's speech without putting it into context. Vance it was who had recently, and in my opinion accurately, described Trump as an "American Hitler." So then he reversed course to become his sycophantic VP.

Now, according to Vance, Biden's "...prior administration threatened and bullied social media companies to censor so-called misinformation." That is exactly what Trump has been doing, isn't it? You might be for him or against him, but his doing that is indisputable; he just banned AP simply for sticking to the generally accepted name for the Gulf of Mexico, when that is Trump being a bully.

Put in context, Vance's speech was hypocrisy of a very high order. It might have played well in Statesboro (and if so, God help Statesboro) but it sure fell flat in Europe.

I think your own background and training dispose you to strip things of their context, when that is about the only way to make a favorable read of Vance's speech. In context it has strong overtones of ranting, bullying, threatening even, speech from his fascistic boss, Donald Trump. It's not just the words as spoken but their context that make them generally a source of concern, not a reasoned call to action. Trump and Vance are obviously grossly inadequate as leaders of the Free World.

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Typical leftist.

Can't write down a few words without yelling Hitler or fascist.

Not even worth commenting on the rest of your drivel.

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You sound German.

Trump is still infinitely preferable to:

"Unless we do something about this, my children are going to grow up in a jungle, the jungle being a racial jungle with tensions having built so high that it is going to explode at some point."

“If you have a problem figuring out whether you're for me or Trump, then you ain't black”

“Not everybody in the community–in the Hispanic and the African American community, particularly in rural areas that are distant and/or inner-city districts–know how to use–know how to get online to determine how to get in line for that COVID vaccination at the Walgreens or at the particular store.”

And if you need a definition of fascism;

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/reuters-ap-bbc-and-politico-how-much-us-government-funding-did-they-receive/articleshow/118333132.cms

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Jetcal 1, Living as I do in Germany it's understandable that I would view Trump and his toady Vance, what a German would call a mere Trittbrettfahrer, from some sort of German-influenced, center-left perspective. So sue me!

Pro-Putin as he clearly is, and leaving quite aside his manifold personal shortcomings as a draft-dodger, and a convicted sex criminal and felonious fraudster, Trump in his present state of mind is simply a threat to Western Europe.

As to fascism, I think I know it when I see it, and what Trump is doing now is clearly fascistic by any reasonable metric.

Pete, it would be fun to see you try to craft a real reply to me. For one thing, I am not "yelling" here.

As to me using the term, "Hitler," if you want to go to the bother of looking this up... no, wait... you do not come off as someone who would even bother with that, so here it is, from one of many reliable sources:

During the 2016 presidential election, Vance wrote that he goes “back and forth between thinking Trump is a cynical a–hole like Nixon who wouldn’t be that bad (and might even prove useful) or that he’s America’s Hitler.” (https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/fact-checking-j-d-vances-past-statements-and-relationship-with-trump)

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"no, wait... you do not come off as someone who would even bother with that, so here it is, from one of many reliable sources" What typically elitist and boorish liberal response.

fascism? No you might know the modern bend it fit anything you want to do definition. Trump is nowhere near the traditional definition as defined by what was done in Germany and Italy 90 years ago.

Apparently like a few other people that have switched parties? Vance had enough of the traditional fascism of the previous Biden Administration.

BTW? PBS forced their one conservative voice to resign after he wrote a letter they didn't like. (How European.)

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Yeah, I look stuff up. Someone who shoots from the hip probably does not. My guess. Hence my helping Peter out by simply looking something up for him.

One guy who really shoots from the hip is Donald John "Over 30,000 documented lies" Trump. Another one, who's merely a bit "economical with la vérité," is J D "Shady" Vance, his acolyte. And a marker for a fascist is someone who goes after objective truth trying to at least twist it, and ultimately to eradicate it. You know, the sort of fellow who claims that "They are eating the cats. They are eating the dogs... ." No need to look that one up, is there?

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“a fascist is someone who goes after objective truth trying to at least twist it, and ultimately to eradicate it” You mean like Germans arresting people who post memes they don't like? Or Biden telling Social Media what they can or cannot post to the point of placing FBI employees in Google?

Placing FBI agents in a business is little different than “Within months of Hitler becoming chancellor, his regime destroyed the country’s free press. It shut down hundreds of opposition newspapers. The propaganda ministry issued daily orders dictating what could be published. Oversight of radio, film, newsreels, theater, and music likewise fell under its rule.”

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Germans do not enjoy the same freedoms of expression guaranteed to US citizens by the First Amendment. In that you are quite correct.

Yes, if you post some sort of meme promoting Nazism, racism, or whatever, you certainly could find yourself placed under arrest. We even had a local grandmother in her eighties whom they finally had to jail because the old bat kept self-publishing her pro-Nazi screeds crammed with Jew-hatred.

Dressing up like the SA or SS and marching through a Jewish neighborhood ... you would have no chance of getting away with that here. (For one thing, you would have a hard time even finding a Jewish neighborhood in the first place.) In the States it was Jewish ACLU lawyers who fought all the way to the Supreme Court for their sworn enemies' constitutional right to do that, and won their case.

If Musk had thrown those two Hitlergrüßen here he would probably would have been charged with Volksverhetzung (stirring up public hatred, specifically race hatred). But with a good German lawyer he probably would have beat the rap.

Vance, on the other hand, wearing that eye-liner he favors, not to mention that dress? Berlin is famous for having a very vibrant gay scene; he would be welcomed there with open arms! https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/jd-vance-drag-photo/

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Why should Trump or Vance be held to higher standards than Biden, Obama, Clinton,Clinton,......?

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By the way, VP Vance, like many of us, was not onboard the Trump train at the beginning. But once you see the wisdom of the man, you have no intellectual choice to either ride or die. Also, how is Germany doing after laughing at Trump for warning about your dependence on Russia for fuel?

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Thanks for asking. Germany very luckily had a mild winter with low demand for gas just after stopping the supply from Russia. Nobody went terribly short, particularly not households, and now we have alternate sources for gas.

Here we just installed geothermal heating; two 280-meter-deep boreholes now keep us toasty warm on no gas at all, just electricity to run the pump. And for electricity we just put in solar panels on parts of the roofs (house and garage).

You should lead with a trigger warning when you write about seeing the "wisdom of the man," meaning Trump. I might have been drinking coffee as I read that ruining my laptop with a huge spit-take.

What did Vontz use to see the wisdom, a microscope? (I think we both know what he went up, looking for that wisdom. He's right up there now.)

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"'Fascist! Draft dodger"! Oh puh-leeeze, Mister Pillette. En passant, what exactly did you do in the war, Daddy!

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I worked for the Army Security Agency and it was a big secret.

I could tell you but then I would probably have to kill you. Are you feeling lucky, punk?

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Which army?

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The one that lost! In my defense though, at the time I left we were winning.

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"Feeling lucky, punk?" Wow, Mister Charley, what an impressively obscure cultural reference! Actually, when I stupidly dropped a chamber music class which put me below the minimum required to keep my 2S draft deferment (the hardball Dutchess County NY assistant DA at the time was G. Gordon Liddy!) , having aced the AFQT I was invited to enlist RA and enroll in what amounted to a ROTC program for prospective ASA apparatchiks. Good thing that I did because the first part was completing the ASA's dedicated full monty advanced infantry training ("AIT") at Fort Ord. After any of a number of further lapses of judgement —none of them illegal or immoral— I was no longer suitable ASA officer material, and in January 1968 —right after TET— I got put on a plane to an "unspecified overseas combat zone". Read all about my rumble in the jungle here... <https://cultivateunderstanding.com/pdfjs-2.3.200-dist/web/viewer.html?file=../..//Digital_Media/VN_firsthand_online/eye_corps_stories_hero_junk.pdf>

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How are we supposed to take any of this post seriously if you can't get one of your leading facts right? I'll let you figure out which one, but the other two are basically opinions so it should be easy for you.

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Anyone who doesn’t wave the EU flag and worship globalism is far right and a fascist.

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You are beneath contempt.

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Chucky, I think the Brits used to refer to guys like you as “gone native”. But good luck under your future Muslim overlords.

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Gone bush, more like: 25 years in West Africa, when my German wife sometimes tells me I am only white on the outside. We had Christians, Animists, Muslims, even a few Jews. And then two years in Algeria, often living in a desert camp as one of just five or so "Europeans" sharing our space with many Muslims. Then I was often the beneficiary of kindness towards the stranger, a Muslim practice.

But yes, certainly, when you live long enough among a certain group of people then you may come around to at least respecting the way they look at things.

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A few months in Gaza or Aden would do you wonders.

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"... kindness towards the stranger, a Muslim practice."

Reminds me of an old Chad Mitchell bit;

"The Nazi, whom we did abhor

Is now gemütlichkeiter

For when he isn't making war

No one could be politer"

Those "kind" Muslims certainly seem to make a lot of exceptions to that practice; Jews, Christians, gays, ... and even other Muslims.

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Well by this rationale, I see no other recourse but for the U.S. to leave the defense of Europe to the natives. I look forward to seeing the ranks of your new "be all you can be" armed forces, especially in Germany, swell with fresh recruits; eager to assume a responsibility that Europe should have assumed quite some time ago. I'm thinking this is a total win-win here.

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Do they have enough brooms to arm them for training?

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Before you give them brooms, you actually have to have personnel to give the brooms to am I right?

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I look forward to seeing their new ranks swell as you do:)

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I don’t understand how Trump is a threat to Europe? How so? Is he going to invade? Take you over? What possible thing is he going to do to put you at risk?

Oh wait! I get it. He isn’t going to use American taxpayer dollars to protect you when you won’t do it yourself. The noive of dat guy! Just like Hitler. And Vance! Don’t even get me started. I doubt his taste in cheese. There, I said it. It is true. The man couldn’t tell a Camembert from a Brie.

Protect yourself you Euro poof. You hate America, that is obvious. You love Europe. Stand up for what you believe in. Europe! You pay to protect your non existent borders. Cut off free speech. Pretend Islam is not a threat. Go for it. And when the Louvre is sacked by Jihadists you will have no one to blame except yourselves.

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William, you win the prize for "Best Reply Ever." Reading it is the exact equivalent of watching one of those videos of a hyped-up cat chasing a laser dot. The mystic bit is trying to figure out the meaning behind what you have typed, not written, I guess.

Well, to be fair, what you led off with does make sense. No, you obviously "don't understand how Trump is a threat to Europe." The rest is sort of, well, Ashkenazic. As in "A fool can ask a question a thousand wise men could not answer." It's certainly beyond my ken.

I have to ask, though, how did you come to the conclusion that I am a "poof"? Or is that one four-letter word you don't know the meaning of? You might want to check out the way that your man Vance wears eye-liner, and at least once went around in drag. Do that before you start throwing stones in your house made of very cloudy glass.

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You were the one claiming Trump is a threat to Europe. I asked how. I was using the word poof not saying you are gay but in the sense of being not masculine.

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Thanks for the upvote for ‘Best Reply Ever’. I don’t even consider that one in my top 100. To really have a good reply you have to have something to work with/against. BTW….you’re obviously a fake account.

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You made a statement followed by a question mark. If you had written, "I don't understand. How is Trump a threat to Europe?" then that would have been a question. (You might want to ask for your money back on that Trump University course you took, "How to Write Good.")

"Poof" is simply British slang for a male homosexual. That is the sole meaning of the word; it means the same thing as "gay."

Come to that, some male homosexuals are extremely masculine, so masculine that they want nothing to do with women. (Maybe you want to take down that big poster of Yukio Mishima, bare-chested and waving a samurai sword; it doesn't quite mean what you think it does.)

The joke here is that you Vance fan-boys seem to overlook the fact that he sometimes wears eye-liner, and at least once wore drag. Both of those things are anything but masculine. There's someone acting a bit like a poof.

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Our man does NOT wear eye liner. He is of Scots-Irish descent and anyone familiar with "Irish eyes" knows that from a distance they look like a husky. Ice blue or green with a fringe of thick fluffy black lashes. It's a thing. (Swoon). I'm an eye kinda gal so I notice these things! If you think he wears makeup... that kind would have been run out of the hills and hollers long ago if they tried it. Stop.

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https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/1ejgpzx/jd_vance_wearing_eyeliner/

Check it out: eyeliner. Wanna see him wearing drag? Don't push your luck, Sister, or I will hit you with that one too! Scratch one heart-throb!

I am 3/4 Irish by descent and my green "Irish eyes," and the eyes of all of my 100% Irish people are or were quite bereft of those Vontzian black rings.

Vontz is a fake hillbilly anyway. How many hillbillies do you know with a JD from Yale Law School? None, right? I have known quite a few from my time in the Oil Patch, and I never met one that had even visited New Haven, let alone attended Yale.

You can swoon all you want, but your (not our ... what do you take me for?) man is as fake as a Professor of Fakeness from Yale University.

Go back to mooning over Ricky Nelson, is my advice. Nelson, not Martin! Martin bats for the other team.

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"Trump in his present state of mind is simply a threat to Western Europe."

By any reasonable measure Western Europe is quite capable of coping with any "threat" from the US, or Russia. Whether they choose to do so is another matter. Personally, I look forward to the day Europe chooses to defend itself do so without relying on us horrible yanks and our offensive, unacceptable attitudes.

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So how are your Arabic lessons coming along? Your kids learning it? (If you have any.) Better teach them now ... it's a difficult script to learn and you don't want them to be illiterate in the new regime that will come in your lifetime because you aren't looking out for your future.

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I look forward to your response when that screaming "fascist" Trump withdraws from that financial hole called NATO and lets your abject failure of a once prosperous state stand on its own.

It is a conundrum that Mr Fascist Trump is downsizing government, cutting waste, fraud, and abuse, bringing back hiring sanity in that MERIT and ABILITY matter much more than skin color, returning to gender truth, and holding the press accountable when daily we have yet another major network (yesterday CBS) delivering the "news" that any 15 yr old with an internet connection can prove to be false. Doesn't sound very "fascist" to 75 million of us toadie Mur-cans that voted for honest change.

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"he just banned AP "

No he DID NOT. They are still in business and publishing their nonsense. He revoked their privileged access to the White House briefing room, as he should have.

That said, your entire response is an exercise in elitist, ignorant pomposity.

I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

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I guess you will need to explain the difference between banning someone (from the White House Briefing Room) and revoking their access to the White House Briefing Room. Both have the same effect.

There is no difference between those two things, a ban or a revocation. The AP is now unable to do its job, reporting from the White House Briefing Room, because of being banned/having had their access revoked/call it whatever you like, by President Trump.

You can go all Trumpian, writing in ALL CAPS all you like, but the bare fact is that Trump did, sorry, DID do that; he banned the AP from access to the White House, and he also would not allow them, as was the custom, to ride on Air Force One. And all that over a childish fit of pique for not following his re-naming of the Gulf of Mexico.

Here's what you get in Germany when you input Trump's new name for the Gulf of Mexico into Google Maps: 'Zu der Suchanfrage "Gulf of America" wurde in Google Maps nichts gefunden' 'With regard to your search inquiry for "Gulf of America" nothing was found' To get find it you need to input "Golf von Mexiko (Golf von Amerika)."

AP operates world-wide, when the rest of the world still goes with the proper name for the Gulf of Mexico. That is why AP, just doing its job, has stayed with its real name.

That has nothing to do with Donald Trump, MAGA, or any of the rest of his childish BS.

Feel free to pray to your God on my behalf. I am sure that mine, Chukwu, would not mind you doing that for his Chuks.

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Many of us are sick and tired of being held hostage by the AP style guide. It's more than just the Gulf of America. Tired of them dictating to the world what we can say by how we say it.

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You appear to be unaware of politicians use of hyperbole. And also the ability for people to re-assess their opinions based on later observations.

And while I think the renaming of the Gulf of Mexico to Gulf of America is rather ridiculous, the AP was not banned from reporting on things. They were just disinvited to have some personnel in restricted spaces that they've been accustomed to having access to. That's much different than arresting/imprisoning people for expressing their opinions publicly or thought crime that impedes no one. And while we do have some issues with that here in the US that need to be straightened out, it's on a much smaller and limited basis than what Vance was referring to in his speech.

Also, Vance in drag at a college party seems like a whole different kettle of fish than the controversy of men in women's sports, or using women's locker rooms and restrooms.

As for Trump being a fascist, what definition are you using? Because fascism is generally against things like democracy (by installing a dictatorship), smaller government, and for the nationalization of the economy (corporatism) and education. Trump so far seems be trying to ensure that elections are more transparent, reducing bureaucracy and limiting the reach of government in the economy, and increasing school choice. Honestly, about the only thing I can think of that Trump has in common with fascism is a hatred of communism.

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NATO should have been disbanded the moment the Warsaw Pact collapsed, and the Soviet Union imploded. Instead, it morphed from the North Atlantic to all of Europe, the regions surrounding Europe (remember "The Arc of Instability") and the entire world. All at American expense.

(I speak as one who spent time in Bavaria and Naples.)

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80 years doesn't seem like a long time ago when you see/hear what 'leadership' on the continent is putting out there.....could the pendulum be swinging over to a point where violence will once again be necessary to bring society back?

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If so it's going to be their own problem this time.

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In addition to being publically chastised the Europeans also heard their social welfare states will not be sustainable as the need for paying their own defense bill arises. This will further antagonize the public as immigrants are already straining the existing social services. Big problems coming for Europe.

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I suspect this is at the base of their angst. It's always about the benjamins.

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"reasonable settlement between Russia and Ukraine"

stop. stop. FULL BLODDY STOP. as soon as those words were spoken, nothing else was worth listening to from that source. (or its own) As sad as the situation is and will be, the current administration's actions now, to EXCLUDE Ukraine from "peace talks" between the U.S. and Russia....is tantamount to criminal intent.

all the other statements, whether correct or well meaning or distasteful or insightful...;..all pale in importance to that travesty quoted above.

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Don't disagree. Let's keep an open mind.

Especially since we Ukraine on record as saying no peace agreement.

I believe Ukraine will be on the losing end, but will not be totally subsumed as so many in Russia desire. The question is will Ukraine remain a state or become a rump state.

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Who cares? Not America’s problem. If I may paraphrase Bismarck Ukraine is not worth a lance corporal.

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That pesky Budapest Memorandum.

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Must we do this again?

" commitment to seek

immediate United Nations Security Council action to

provide assistance to Ukraine, as a non-nuclear-weapon

State Party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of

Nuclear Weapons, if Ukraine should become a victim

of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggres-

sion in which nuclear weapons are used"

Your faith in the United Nations Security Council is puzzling.

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Well, here we are. Given the beginning of what appears to be the first rounds of shuttle diplomacy since the 70's? Let's see how it plays out. We'll probably end up making concessions to the spineless EU to backstop, and some concessions will need to be made to get Russia not to play spoiler both on the ground and as part of the UN Security Council. Ukraine is bargaining from a position of weakness and the EU for all their bluster at this point lack the munitions to fight their way out of a wet paper bag.

There aren't enough tubes, rounds, or men for Ukraine to win. They went three years on the backs of those too poor to escape.

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Depending on your definition, there are quite a few "rump states" in the world. Russia, Germany, Sweden, Austria, .... maybe even Great Britain.

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I tend to think we've talked with Ukraine enough without Russia that we can meet a couple times with Russians to get some diplomacy moving if that's what it takes.

I'm pretty sure this war is going to end the way it could have ended in mid-2022, except with 100,000s more casualties and many hundreds of billions more spent and magazines depleted, with the bonus of a Zelenski who refuses to call elections and has extended his term.

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Let's also not forget that what is said publicly in front of cameras is not necessarily what is said or done privately. Most diplomacy is done off the record, in back rooms, between lower level subordinates.

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2dEdited

As demonstrated again and again, like it or not (and it's easy to dislike), this is just Trump's style of making deals, and it's to make sure that Ukraine comes to the table with the desire to put a stop to the war, by starting from an utterly unreasonable position. You'd think after 8 years people would be savvy to the tactic because he does this every time.

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Sian: Well said and I agree.

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Anyone with half a brain figured this out about Trump within the first 6 months of his first term. It’s kind of a fun game now to figure out what he’s actually going for (hint: it’s usually something involving getting other countries to pay for things that benefit America).

I remain astounded at the people (including most of the media) still go into a pearl-clutching panic every time he says something outrageous, allowing him to control the narrative and set the agenda. Trump is Lucy, and they’re Charlie Brown trying to kick the football for a decade straight.

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And it seems to have served him pretty well.

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Ukraine forfeited its independence long ago. It has shown itself incapable of governing for the benefit of its people.

They're in better hands with Russia.

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Zelensky is a bankers puppet obviously.

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Ukraine is one of the most corrupt nations, Zelensky is a bankers puppet, has embezzled billions, and lost the war years ago. They can’t govern themselves and the merciful thing to do is for the adults to establish a peace for them. Ukraine corruption and fraud by the bankers needs to stop. Four of my brothers and I served active duty US military and we’re done with sending Christian men and wealth to go missing In Zionist neocon wars in Iraq, Ukraine, Iran or anywhere else. Let the neocons send their kids and wealth instead of ours.

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You are aware that a higher percentage of Ukrainians than Russians are observant Christians, right?

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Yup. And you’re aware that the Zionists put a Jewish Zionist named Zelensky in charge of all those Christians right? Literally a comedian who’s act was to play a piano with his dick.

Ditto for Mexico btw.

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No, actually, I didn't realize how delusional you were. Thanks for the heads-up.

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Np. You probably deny the IDF hasn’t done ethnic cleansing in Gaza by killing 50,000, wounding 100,000 and making homeless 1,000,000 innocent women and children.

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In order for it to be an ethnic cleansing, there has to be an expulsion involved. If it is an ethnic cleansing, it's the most incompetently executed one in the history of mankind.

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Libertarian. You really hate Jews. Why?

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Pete, you really hate Christians.

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Hardly. It’s just that my Lord and Savior was a Jew all the days of his life on earth.

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He played Hava Nigella. Not exactly what I would call a Zionist.

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Hey Libertarian, why do you hate Jews so much? Last time I checked neocon Cheney was not Jewish.

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Hey Pete, why do you hate Christians so much? Why call them goy and say Jesus is in Hell?

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You really are a sick puppy.

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Ukraine is fully capable of negotiating with Russia on its own, independently of the US, should it wish to. As is Europe. Should. It. Wish.To. And there is no reason Ukraine has to abide by any US/Russia agreement. Someone, however, must make the first move.

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Vice-President Vance is one of the most articulate and eloquent speakers that we, in the USA, and across the political spectrum have seen in many decades. As was shown in the debates and interviews prior to the election and hence forth, he has shown that he is well versed and very knowledgeable on any subject that he speaks about. The US is lucky to have him.

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Vance reminds me of Harry Truman. He speaks the truth, and the Europeans think its Hell.

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Listen to what the Europeans say, watch what they do, and follow the money. Willing to be corrected, but the Europeans were NOT happy with the speech and said so. Macron then convened an emergency meeting to discuss what to do...would love to get an exsum of the discussion at THAT meeting. Follow the money? Given what we are discovering about how our government spends our tax dollars, and European history (French Revolution, fall of USSR (remember the end of the Ceaucesceaus (sp?)), I'd wager the LAST thing the EU bureaucracy wants is an accounting of where EU tax dollars go. Perhaps I'm wrong...

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