It really is a global marketplace and capital looks for the best return.
We have economic interests in Japan, ROK, Tawain, Vietnam and the Philippines so why are we surprised that China would have interests in other parts of the world?
Is it China's fault that we engage in endless wars, do not maintain our infrastructure, allow our jobs and factories to be shipped overseas in the name of free trade; print and borrow money because the government can't balance the budget, etc.?
The worst thing we did was to allow our education system to degenerate into Marxist DEI CRT LGBTQ indoctrination centers.
The first thing that China did following the overthrow of the Gang of Four was to toss away Mao's Red Book and restore STEM education. We see the results 50 years later.
I have no illusions about Xi, but let's first get our own house in order before blaming China or even Russia for our problems.
Do we have to hit rock bottom like the UK before we do anything?
Can't remember which nation said it (badly paraphrased): When we engage with China we get an airport. When we engage with the U.S. we get a lecture." IIRC, the discussion was centered on "diversity", so I'll stop now.
Nations follow interests, not ideals. Nations are "led" by individuals who also have "interests". When the "interests" of the leaders and led align, there is win win, and prosperity usually (not always) results. When the "interests" don't align, you get foreign and domestic policy that don't make sense (see U.S. energy policy). Also, I actually hope the state department long documented track record of failure is the result of incompetence and not malice. The implications of malice are...profound.
Delusions. I've worked in State, it's full of careerists and time-servers grinding away like in every government department, with some brilliant diplomats among them.
In my post-Navy life I’ve worked as a minerals-focused geologist. And I’ve traveled to Peru to do geological work. On the airliners down to Peru, it always seems that most of the people headed there from USA are tourists going to see sights/sites like Machu Picchu.
When I encounter Chinese in Peru - and I have encountered many! - they tend to be geologists. Indeed, the main rail line across the highest pass of the Peruvian Andes (yes, been there) serves a massive, Chinese-owned copper mine. Almost every car on this railway hauls nothing but Chinese-owned copper concentrate down to the coastline, and from there to the hold of a Chinese-owned cargo ship headed to China.
Just amazing how both the northern and southern proposed rail lines end right about where the megaport construction is going on. How could the smartest people in the room overlook this? While our leaders are struggling with the concept of a mercantile republic the CCP seems to be executing on their plan for a mercantile socialist state.
You suspect correctly, Pete; but do NOT think small or in terms of mere personalities. China's Belt & Road Initiative (BRI) is a comprehensive, all-of-govt matter. It began as a foreign policy slogan, but quickly -- in strategic terms -- developed a life of its own. Generally, BRI is a Polaris-star that coordinates China's diplomatic and military side, aided by heavy input from intelligence sources. (Eg, not all Chinese geologists are geologists.) Plus, BRI incorporates China's banking sector, as well as energy, construction, shipping/transport, industry, food, education, and more sectors. All to the point of securing long-term access to important resources for China's economy -- oil, gas, uranium, mineral ores and metals, food, etc. Along the way, China will "help" host nations by building -- w Chinese financing, equipment & labor -- ports, roads, rail, airports, power systems, mines & mills, etc. But the development vector of this assistance always points back to securing energy and materiel for the Chinese economy, now and far into the future. Truly, BRI is long-range geopolitical strategic thinking at its highest levels.
"All to the point of securing long-term access to important resources for China's economy -- oil, gas, uranium, mineral ores and metals, food, etc."
In the meantime, forces at work in our country are ensuring through the best political hacks that money can buy, that the U.S. doesn't extract these resources from our own country or immediate neighbors to the north and south.
You should look carefully at China's 'infrastructure'. Most of it is in the Potemkin village category - naval shipyards actually being a major exception. And their most touted piece of civilian infrastructure, the Three Gorges Dam, is actually a nation threatening vulnerability.
That is my name. Except for a couple of places where descriptive handles are for fun, I comment under my own name. No relation to Jackie that I know of. That branch of my family goes back to at least the late 1700's in New Jersey.
Our one saving grace here might be that once Xi dies there will likely be chaos for a generation or more in China. He seems to have removed anyone who doesn't see him as the one and only god of the CCP
I'm not sure whether we will get chaos or the rule by committee that happened after the death of Mao. China has a history of cycling from rule by Emperor to rule by bureaucratic committee. Admittedly there was still revolutionary fervor in China then that doesn't exist today.
I don't have much to comment on this, but in regards to commercial not military, you can fit quite a bit of military equipment and/or people in that 1.5M TEU, and Chinese shipping is ultimately owned by the PRC military (if not directly). A port built to support megafreighters can also, at least in theory, support large warships.
Even if Trump wins, I'm not holding my breath on any serious addressing of this issue (the "Pacific pivot" is not serious), as he'll likely be spending a lot of time fighting his own bureaucracy to get anything at all done.
("If" because while I think he can overcome the margin of fraud this time around, I'm not absolutely positive he can. Last Saturday also showed how serious leftists are about stopping him.)
I wasn't referring to much to the shooter as to the reaction to what he did, though rereading my previous post I can see I didn't get that thought into words on the screen. My apologies.
Next time (hopefully never, but as the saying goes hope isn't a plan) it may be someone who might otherwise qualify for the President's 100 list. Do you expect the cheering that Trump was shot to somehow be lesser if it succeeds than when it failed?
What low percentage of our federal employees, even at State and Defense, would know of the Monroe doctrine. Other than some vague concept tied up with white supremacy and other non-woke ideologies.
probably roughly the same percentage who know that we are one of the most hetero-racial countries in the world. same as those who realize that china is ~90% han. 😉
Not a lot of difference between a deep-water port and a naval base. In fact, the port can be converted with the cargo of one ship carrying spares and ammo
Nothing personal. Just business.
It really is a global marketplace and capital looks for the best return.
We have economic interests in Japan, ROK, Tawain, Vietnam and the Philippines so why are we surprised that China would have interests in other parts of the world?
Is it China's fault that we engage in endless wars, do not maintain our infrastructure, allow our jobs and factories to be shipped overseas in the name of free trade; print and borrow money because the government can't balance the budget, etc.?
The worst thing we did was to allow our education system to degenerate into Marxist DEI CRT LGBTQ indoctrination centers.
The first thing that China did following the overthrow of the Gang of Four was to toss away Mao's Red Book and restore STEM education. We see the results 50 years later.
I have no illusions about Xi, but let's first get our own house in order before blaming China or even Russia for our problems.
Do we have to hit rock bottom like the UK before we do anything?
Can't remember which nation said it (badly paraphrased): When we engage with China we get an airport. When we engage with the U.S. we get a lecture." IIRC, the discussion was centered on "diversity", so I'll stop now.
https://x.com/LHSummers/status/1647576849021644800?lang=en
Thanks!
Right. They get an airport, and a bill...and as soon as they can't make the vig on the bill, they get 'advisors' to take over the economy.
But the hookers and blow for Dear Leader and Junior Leaders are provided free as long as everything is cool.
Nations follow interests, not ideals. Nations are "led" by individuals who also have "interests". When the "interests" of the leaders and led align, there is win win, and prosperity usually (not always) results. When the "interests" don't align, you get foreign and domestic policy that don't make sense (see U.S. energy policy). Also, I actually hope the state department long documented track record of failure is the result of incompetence and not malice. The implications of malice are...profound.
Aviation Sceptic: Our State Department is full of hardcore Marxists and Islamists.
Please identify one.
Rob Malley was removed last year.
And Jake Sullivan is still running around.
Delusions. I've worked in State, it's full of careerists and time-servers grinding away like in every government department, with some brilliant diplomats among them.
Not much different than the Navy.
Time to give Ross Kennedy some 0% loans for some Expeditionary Capitalism.
hmmmm. Belt and Road, and......Shining Path. match made in Hades
hey, I know! we aughta start up a pool..........just when do we cede the whole blessed Pacific?
Charles de Gaulle: 'No nation has friends only interests.'
I thought that was Lord Palmerston.
A Frenchman quoting an Englishman; ugh. Sacre Bleu!
Isn't Bismarck in there somewhere? So it could be a very tangled, "a Frenchman quoting a German, quoting an Englishman...."
In my post-Navy life I’ve worked as a minerals-focused geologist. And I’ve traveled to Peru to do geological work. On the airliners down to Peru, it always seems that most of the people headed there from USA are tourists going to see sights/sites like Machu Picchu.
When I encounter Chinese in Peru - and I have encountered many! - they tend to be geologists. Indeed, the main rail line across the highest pass of the Peruvian Andes (yes, been there) serves a massive, Chinese-owned copper mine. Almost every car on this railway hauls nothing but Chinese-owned copper concentrate down to the coastline, and from there to the hold of a Chinese-owned cargo ship headed to China.
Registering targets and getting experience.
What good is a megaport on a coast without an intermodal link? Oh, wait....
https://www.railway-technology.com/features/the-bi-oceanic-corridor-a-new-railroad-to-rival-maritime-freight/?cf-view
https://www.businessinsider.com/china-wants-to-build-a-railroad-across-latin-america-2015-5
Just amazing how both the northern and southern proposed rail lines end right about where the megaport construction is going on. How could the smartest people in the room overlook this? While our leaders are struggling with the concept of a mercantile republic the CCP seems to be executing on their plan for a mercantile socialist state.
I suspect that the head of China's infrastructure is a professional and NOT some political hack who could not even fix the potholes in his hometown.
You suspect correctly, Pete; but do NOT think small or in terms of mere personalities. China's Belt & Road Initiative (BRI) is a comprehensive, all-of-govt matter. It began as a foreign policy slogan, but quickly -- in strategic terms -- developed a life of its own. Generally, BRI is a Polaris-star that coordinates China's diplomatic and military side, aided by heavy input from intelligence sources. (Eg, not all Chinese geologists are geologists.) Plus, BRI incorporates China's banking sector, as well as energy, construction, shipping/transport, industry, food, education, and more sectors. All to the point of securing long-term access to important resources for China's economy -- oil, gas, uranium, mineral ores and metals, food, etc. Along the way, China will "help" host nations by building -- w Chinese financing, equipment & labor -- ports, roads, rail, airports, power systems, mines & mills, etc. But the development vector of this assistance always points back to securing energy and materiel for the Chinese economy, now and far into the future. Truly, BRI is long-range geopolitical strategic thinking at its highest levels.
PS -- For a typical summary of how China views its own BRI work, see this from Xinhua News: https://eng.yidaiyilu.gov.cn/p/0K7JQRIP.html
"All to the point of securing long-term access to important resources for China's economy -- oil, gas, uranium, mineral ores and metals, food, etc."
In the meantime, forces at work in our country are ensuring through the best political hacks that money can buy, that the U.S. doesn't extract these resources from our own country or immediate neighbors to the north and south.
In China, every head of everything is a politically reliable professional.
I'm thinking that the key question is whether we or China collapse from debt first. All of their excursions around the world cost a lot of money. And the answer isn't clear. https://www.wsj.com/world/china/china-economy-debt-borrowing-33f08b5e?st=gt1yyxqsfztha58&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink
China invested in infrastructure while we invested in democracy in Afghanistan.
and LGBTQWXYZ appreciation in the Taliban
You should look carefully at China's 'infrastructure'. Most of it is in the Potemkin village category - naval shipyards actually being a major exception. And their most touted piece of civilian infrastructure, the Three Gorges Dam, is actually a nation threatening vulnerability.
Maybe, but I have no way of telling.
I can see the Cross Bronx Expressway and US95 in Connecticut.
Sorry. Those were terrible the last time I drove them - and that was in 1980.
If you visit the parks underneath the GW Bridge on either side of the Hudson River, you will be astonished by the rust.
BTW, is that your name or did you take the name of the great admiral?
That is my name. Except for a couple of places where descriptive handles are for fun, I comment under my own name. No relation to Jackie that I know of. That branch of my family goes back to at least the late 1700's in New Jersey.
Our one saving grace here might be that once Xi dies there will likely be chaos for a generation or more in China. He seems to have removed anyone who doesn't see him as the one and only god of the CCP
I'm not sure whether we will get chaos or the rule by committee that happened after the death of Mao. China has a history of cycling from rule by Emperor to rule by bureaucratic committee. Admittedly there was still revolutionary fervor in China then that doesn't exist today.
might find out really soon if reports are true Xi just had a massive stroke
A wounded animal is the most dangerous.
And an ancient Chinese curse is said to be "May you live in interesting times".
The full curse is apparently, " May you live in Interesting Times, and come to the attention of the authorities ".
I don't have much to comment on this, but in regards to commercial not military, you can fit quite a bit of military equipment and/or people in that 1.5M TEU, and Chinese shipping is ultimately owned by the PRC military (if not directly). A port built to support megafreighters can also, at least in theory, support large warships.
Even if Trump wins, I'm not holding my breath on any serious addressing of this issue (the "Pacific pivot" is not serious), as he'll likely be spending a lot of time fighting his own bureaucracy to get anything at all done.
("If" because while I think he can overcome the margin of fraud this time around, I'm not absolutely positive he can. Last Saturday also showed how serious leftists are about stopping him.)
Read up on the kid. Absolutely no one who knew him is calling him a liberal.
I wasn't referring to much to the shooter as to the reaction to what he did, though rereading my previous post I can see I didn't get that thought into words on the screen. My apologies.
Next time (hopefully never, but as the saying goes hope isn't a plan) it may be someone who might otherwise qualify for the President's 100 list. Do you expect the cheering that Trump was shot to somehow be lesser if it succeeds than when it failed?
Flag Uniform has been two blocked for South America for several years.
We are so distracted and weak the Chinese are taking advantage. A boatswain's mate would understand this.....😁
no clue. I googled it, that's what I found
What low percentage of our federal employees, even at State and Defense, would know of the Monroe doctrine. Other than some vague concept tied up with white supremacy and other non-woke ideologies.
600 ship navy.
probably roughly the same percentage who know that we are one of the most hetero-racial countries in the world. same as those who realize that china is ~90% han. 😉
chicoms been in panama, eg the old canal zone, for some time. good thing carter got it off our hands. 🙄
Not a lot of difference between a deep-water port and a naval base. In fact, the port can be converted with the cargo of one ship carrying spares and ammo