The game isn't over yet. We could do a few little things to start moving the herd aside from the constructional changes needed. Quit pledging allegiance to a flag under God and start pledging to the Constitution for Pete's sake.
It’s over. Like Rome after 378 AD. In my lifetime we went from Ike’s America to an Obama nation. Why? I don’t know why. I can trace the steps. Assassination, Vietnam, Welfare state, Open borders, Watergate, Energy crises, debt, inflation, deindustrialization, degeneracy, drugs, endless wars, etc. It looked like Reagan had stopped the decline. But then came the Bushes, Clinton, Obama and now Biden. It was too much to ask of a Reality TV host to reverse 50+ years of bad decisions. Just watch the protests and legal farce in New York. It’s what you would expect to see in Zimbabwe. Constitution? You mean the document that says the police need warrants signed by a judge to conduct a search? What a joke.
It really started with Wilson, the Federal Reserve Act, and Amendments 16, 17, and 18, which together debased the currency, removed the influence of States and thus weakened the Republic, gave the Federal Government access to unlimited funds, and gave them reason to use them to create an autocratic federal law enforcement empire.
Yes, but the FRB was created for a purpose, a way of controlling panics and bank failures. It didn't get fully worked up to the task until the Great Depression. People, morality, and financial complexity haven't improved but we've had no mass bank failures or financial panics. A central bank has downsides but it exists for a reason.
Understand. I'm not sure in the end the consistent inflation and debasement of the currency does less damage than the occasional panics, but the answer is not "easy" either way.
Because of the Leftists long march through our institutions. But that started with the education system - indoctrinating the next generation of leaders to tolerate that which is intolerable, honoring that which is dishonorable, tearing down everything that is good and replacing our "responsibility" culture of "can do" with that of a "victim" culture of "I demand government assistance and legal intervention because I am oppressed"
We're done.... You just haven't realized it yet. The America you grew up in is gone forever... it's not coming back.. The national will to do the necessary things required to reverse the crash does not exist... We NEED a Dictator...and we will likely get one...they will just not be interested in returning the nation to its previous state.
LOL ... you're not kidding. Well, at least they're eating well. For the record, I always thought the Battle E was little more than an administrative burden. Should go away. I cannot think of any command I was at that did anything better or harder simply to chase a Battle E. https://www.dvidshub.net/news/466708/uss-boxer-earns-combat-readiness-excellence-awards
If I remember the command had to have earned sufficient accolades combined with sustained accomplishments to justify the administrative burden of submitting the record. What has the Boxer accomplished?
There is material here for a post. Way back when, the Red E, and the Red DC was a game. I mean that in the best sense, because it was a game we wanted to win. It was a high-states game; one you better not lose.
Sport brings out much that is good in men. Games are important, particularly when participants play to win. Competition makes people better. Ships competed. Ship's crew practiced.
What we practiced was important stuff. Running drills on engineering casualties taught crews to handle engineering casualties. Humping hoses down a ladder in fire drills builds habits that are invaluable when there is a real fire. The referees the squadron sent over to judge the games were serious people, the evolutions they were grading the ship on were important tasks for a warship.
Encouraging competition between ships is good for the Navy. Folks work harder when there is a goal. Yes, we should always drill and drilling is important in and of itself. But, when you make a drill a game, and set it up as a competition, folks work harder.
If they have taken a worthwhile competition; one that if you slack off you will lose, and turned it into an "everybody gets a trophy" ceremony. . .
"2. ....This was the first of three investigations into engineering casualties that were caused by lack of procedural compliance, substandard supervisory oversight, and general complacency by the crew." Sounds like a squared-away boat to me!
Paragraph 7 is a gem, too. Operating Main Reduction Gears for 2 hours with no lube oil is no big deal, right?
Pretty crazy. I don't know how that is even possible. On my CVN, we had to rotate the main engines/reduction gears for about 20 minutes per night on the mid-watch. If we ever did it without oil, the low lube oil press alarm would be blowing our brains out, same with EOS. There's also a big red light on both panels that about two inches in diameter.
Incompetence all the way down. Everyone wants to get to the next paygrade, but nobody wants to do the hard work. It’s the ducks pick ducks, and zero defect mentality put together.
I am considering a spectacular flame out of my modest, if lengthy, career if needed. Of course, it wouldn’t mean a thing to the ossified bureaucracy.
I’d just shoot my mouth off, but they’d just think of it as GMC being a Chief. Or point out failures by lots of people above me. It would be satisfying, but wouldn’t change a thing.
Nobody is big enough to buck the system. You did not ask, but here is my advice: Put your letter in and retire while you are healthy enough to enjoy it. Retired benefits are the same, no matter how long you stay in. You gave up a lot to get where you are, now get out and get on with the rest of your life. I've been retired longer than I served, and it just gets better every day!
Not wholly related, but my grandfather served as an RT in WW2, then got out and worked for P&W (where he had been before the war) for another 30+ years.
Around 2015 when I was talking to him he said "You know, I've been retired longer than I worked!"
As I recall there was some question as to whether BHR fire was deliberately set but a religiously or otherwise motivated miscreant but NCIS hushed that part up or refused to pursue it.
Maintenance and husbandry are logistics 101 basics. If the oft quoted "amateurs study tactics, professionals study logistics" rule has any basis in reality, things are not as bad as they appear. They're much worse than that. Which leads to choices for conflict with China: Don't fight or win fast or go nuclear... Note to Taiwan, Japan, the PI and anyone else relying on U.S. support: Better have a plan B, C, D if plan A is counting on us. Even if we try, we're setting up for failure.
Yeah, we've had 15ish years with a bipartisan "treacherous as a friend, harmless as an enemy" foreign policy, but even if that changes, the rest is still a shambles.
We have raised a generation of officers and senior enlisted men that are in love with "special forces," "stealth aircraft," and "drones." The repair of the U.S.S. Yorktown, following the Battle of the Coral Sea was instrumental to our victory at Midway. Just the humble opinion of an old hermit. (YouTube has some excellent videos of the salvage operation at Pearl Harbor, just thought our leaders might want to watch them)
What is to be expected when we elected in 1992 an admitted draft dodger with nary a peep from the people or veterans' organizations. Peace Dividend, we are fine with it because we keep voting for it.
I know BRAC was eons ago, but the mess it made is still being felt, maybe moreso today, than ever. The San Diego lobby that assasinated LBNS did us a great disservice. Replacing that capability on the Left Coast is desperately needed, but would take an extremely dedicated group of folks to make it happen. Shipyards arent waterfront condos, so they're ugly and unpopular with the investment crowd. But oh, what a couple new drydocks and repair facilities could do for the Navy!! Theres real estate in Portland and even Vancouver that would work great- but sadly itd take an Elon Musk type to make it happen. A person or group willing to create somthing for the greater good, that isnt based on profit per sq ft. I think that a joint effort between civilians and a govt that cuts thru bureauacracy and red tape to dig some holes, dredge some river, and build some piers could still happen, but you hafta get enough ppl on board, and that's still a tough proposition. Selling it for the jobs itd provide likely doesn't work because...nobody wants to work anymore!!
Maybe we need the govt to push its boundaries, and claim 'crucial need', in order to sweep aside all the enviro-regs and surveys and nonsense in order to build somthing useful...but how do you get the local officials to buy into it? How do we replicate the efforts that built the Arsenal of Democracy factories seemingly overnight? Im not expecting to build a yard that turns out 5 Connies a year out of Portland...but how about just a couple DDG-capable drydocks and pier space for say, 4 more?? Im not well versed on our sub issues, but how much sub maintenance capability could we add somewhere else thats not high-end, but still helps ease the strain on Puget Sound?? How much sub backlog DOESNT require a full "nuclear capable" yard?? Also on my wishlist- maybe a facility that builds floating drydocks with a standing order for 8-10 of them before the yard opens? (We're gonna need em!)
Idk, maybe Im just enamored with the history-rich area I live in, and spend too much time daydreaming about a next-generation, Kaiser-esque Navy presence here again...
Bartlett is trying to get a repair yard for sub parts in Lordstown, Ohio. Rail parts to be repaired/replaced there, let the dockyard concentrate on the actual boat. Build that, and maybe a 2nd for the West Coast.
I'm not sure we're getting the Lorain (or anywhere else in the Lakes) shipbuilding facility. But the repair facility for sub parts is more doable, and would ease pressure on the coasts.
Portland is 100 miles up the Columbia and the most treacherous bar on the Pacific Coast. There is a better port to the south that has fast sea access, rail, and available industrial land - Coos Bay, Oregon. The former World’s Largest Lumber Shipping Port, former home of NAVFAC Coos Head, and producer of minesweepers during WWII to name just a few plusses. I believe the draft in the channel is 53’, but don‘t quote me on that. Current assets are limited to CGAS North Bend, a cutter, and some 44’/48’ boats in Charleston harbor.
Don't be silly, you always want to do your military construction at places that hate the military, are obsessed with Marxism and are run by BANANA activists, not places that embrace the US military.
Never thought about Coos Bay... I just considered the amount of industrial capacity and rail (plus companies with current naval repair ops) thats already here... But if the potential is there, Im not picky. Except Id enjoy seeing it happen daily... :)
I would “like” this article but I sure don’t like what I see when a ship is in an availability for FOUR YEARS and is still not functioning properly. This is an ongoing disgrace. It would be money well spent to send the ship and crew to a shipyard that can get things done the right way.
Was looking for this comment. If I understood correctly, they spent four years on maintenance/upgrades, months of workups getting ready, and then fell apart ten days(!) into a deployment.
I read elsewhere yesterday that the two SD dry docks were being utilized by a DDG and wait for it....an LCS. Thus the LHD might need to be moved to a drydock elsewhere on the west coast. So in other words, the barely functional LCS is a higher priority than a deployment-missing LHD. There must be something else to this story but that's what Defense News was saying yesterday.
I think you're on to something from a ship management perspective. No LCS shall ever be put in dry dock once commissioned. If maintenance is required that would put an LCS in dry dock, they will be decommissioned immediately.
Our Navy and our republic are in trouble.
To paraphrase Ben, we had a republic and we couldn't keep it.
The game isn't over yet. We could do a few little things to start moving the herd aside from the constructional changes needed. Quit pledging allegiance to a flag under God and start pledging to the Constitution for Pete's sake.
It’s over. Like Rome after 378 AD. In my lifetime we went from Ike’s America to an Obama nation. Why? I don’t know why. I can trace the steps. Assassination, Vietnam, Welfare state, Open borders, Watergate, Energy crises, debt, inflation, deindustrialization, degeneracy, drugs, endless wars, etc. It looked like Reagan had stopped the decline. But then came the Bushes, Clinton, Obama and now Biden. It was too much to ask of a Reality TV host to reverse 50+ years of bad decisions. Just watch the protests and legal farce in New York. It’s what you would expect to see in Zimbabwe. Constitution? You mean the document that says the police need warrants signed by a judge to conduct a search? What a joke.
It really started with Wilson, the Federal Reserve Act, and Amendments 16, 17, and 18, which together debased the currency, removed the influence of States and thus weakened the Republic, gave the Federal Government access to unlimited funds, and gave them reason to use them to create an autocratic federal law enforcement empire.
Wilson capped those disasters with the Treaty of Versailles. Let us also not forget his assault on civil liberties,
Wilsom also set back the progress African Americans had made despite Jim Crow.
Yes, but the FRB was created for a purpose, a way of controlling panics and bank failures. It didn't get fully worked up to the task until the Great Depression. People, morality, and financial complexity haven't improved but we've had no mass bank failures or financial panics. A central bank has downsides but it exists for a reason.
Chesterton's Fence and all that.
Understand. I'm not sure in the end the consistent inflation and debasement of the currency does less damage than the occasional panics, but the answer is not "easy" either way.
It's over, why?
-------
Because of the Leftists long march through our institutions. But that started with the education system - indoctrinating the next generation of leaders to tolerate that which is intolerable, honoring that which is dishonorable, tearing down everything that is good and replacing our "responsibility" culture of "can do" with that of a "victim" culture of "I demand government assistance and legal intervention because I am oppressed"
We have law professors telling their students to disobey the law. Som much for Lex Rex.
Plenty to be said for the value of the Judeo Christian structure of morality.
Without it, an amoral Capitalist system quickly turns into a Cleptocracy.
https://www.cato.org/regulation/summer-2021/capitalism-immorality#
one could say the same of an amoral Socialist system, or in fact any amoral system at all. The common element seems to be morality and not system.
A republican system that decreases the power of the amoral people that inevitable rise to the top seems to me to be the best option.
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams
-------
Didn't that turn out to be prescient.
We're done.... You just haven't realized it yet. The America you grew up in is gone forever... it's not coming back.. The national will to do the necessary things required to reverse the crash does not exist... We NEED a Dictator...and we will likely get one...they will just not be interested in returning the nation to its previous state.
BTW… Boxer received the Battle E this year… one more example of hubris.
LOL ... you're not kidding. Well, at least they're eating well. For the record, I always thought the Battle E was little more than an administrative burden. Should go away. I cannot think of any command I was at that did anything better or harder simply to chase a Battle E. https://www.dvidshub.net/news/466708/uss-boxer-earns-combat-readiness-excellence-awards
Concur 💯. BTW I just this morning posted something similar on my substack. Great minds and all that.
We need to get relevant and get real.
If I remember the command had to have earned sufficient accolades combined with sustained accomplishments to justify the administrative burden of submitting the record. What has the Boxer accomplished?
Hopefully destroying the multiple careers, including some at the command responsible for the Boxer.
I got mine from USTAFISH doing damn well on TRE and ORSE/SMI that year. Still my favorite award.
There is material here for a post. Way back when, the Red E, and the Red DC was a game. I mean that in the best sense, because it was a game we wanted to win. It was a high-states game; one you better not lose.
Sport brings out much that is good in men. Games are important, particularly when participants play to win. Competition makes people better. Ships competed. Ship's crew practiced.
What we practiced was important stuff. Running drills on engineering casualties taught crews to handle engineering casualties. Humping hoses down a ladder in fire drills builds habits that are invaluable when there is a real fire. The referees the squadron sent over to judge the games were serious people, the evolutions they were grading the ship on were important tasks for a warship.
Encouraging competition between ships is good for the Navy. Folks work harder when there is a goal. Yes, we should always drill and drilling is important in and of itself. But, when you make a drill a game, and set it up as a competition, folks work harder.
If they have taken a worthwhile competition; one that if you slack off you will lose, and turned it into an "everybody gets a trophy" ceremony. . .
🤣😂🤣😂 🤣😂🤣😂 🤣😂🤣😂 🤣😂🤣😂 🤣😂🤣😂 🤣😂🤣😂 🤣😂🤣😂 🤣😂🤣😂
Contrast that with paragraph #2 from this report: https://cdn.kpbs.org/d1/ff/90285128498fb7a8cf4dce5ed0e2/boxernov23-redacted.pdf
"2. ....This was the first of three investigations into engineering casualties that were caused by lack of procedural compliance, substandard supervisory oversight, and general complacency by the crew." Sounds like a squared-away boat to me!
Paragraph 7 is a gem, too. Operating Main Reduction Gears for 2 hours with no lube oil is no big deal, right?
No supervision. No trust up or down that chain of command.
No lube oil? Jesus Christ I would assume that would be loud as hell to be in a space near that!
Pretty crazy. I don't know how that is even possible. On my CVN, we had to rotate the main engines/reduction gears for about 20 minutes per night on the mid-watch. If we ever did it without oil, the low lube oil press alarm would be blowing our brains out, same with EOS. There's also a big red light on both panels that about two inches in diameter.
Incompetence all the way down. Everyone wants to get to the next paygrade, but nobody wants to do the hard work. It’s the ducks pick ducks, and zero defect mentality put together.
I am considering a spectacular flame out of my modest, if lengthy, career if needed. Of course, it wouldn’t mean a thing to the ossified bureaucracy.
Yea self immolation is only for suckers and libtards.
I’d just shoot my mouth off, but they’d just think of it as GMC being a Chief. Or point out failures by lots of people above me. It would be satisfying, but wouldn’t change a thing.
Nobody is big enough to buck the system. You did not ask, but here is my advice: Put your letter in and retire while you are healthy enough to enjoy it. Retired benefits are the same, no matter how long you stay in. You gave up a lot to get where you are, now get out and get on with the rest of your life. I've been retired longer than I served, and it just gets better every day!
Not wholly related, but my grandfather served as an RT in WW2, then got out and worked for P&W (where he had been before the war) for another 30+ years.
Around 2015 when I was talking to him he said "You know, I've been retired longer than I worked!"
Sure is a good thing SecDef has made eradicating Right Wing Elitism out of the military root and branch a priority!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ha3hDTZE0KQ&rco=1
They're getting rig of the right wing but apparently haven't found all the "roots of white rage" yet.
Yet, if figurative and not literal, it can be a lot of fun.
My Dad once told me with respect to military and corporate careers "I never burned any bridges, but I blew a few up."
Go for it. I can say and produce a record of anti-careerism, not that I wish to post it on the internet.
Careful. They will start calling you a racist for being anti-career.
"Incompetence all the way down."
These folks are Really Smart Guys!
"Everybody wants to go to Heaven...but nobody wants to die."
Four years in the Yard and they didn't bother with a Paint job.
This is bordering on either criminal negligence, or criminal incompetence. But hey, it was a good 250 year run…
Total incompetence, that should lead to criminal charges! But all they'll get is another star and a cushy job with some defense contractor.
I'm really not sure if it's simply incompetence, or some malice involved too. But I fully agree about the cushy job…
As I recall there was some question as to whether BHR fire was deliberately set but a religiously or otherwise motivated miscreant but NCIS hushed that part up or refused to pursue it.
Maintenance and husbandry are logistics 101 basics. If the oft quoted "amateurs study tactics, professionals study logistics" rule has any basis in reality, things are not as bad as they appear. They're much worse than that. Which leads to choices for conflict with China: Don't fight or win fast or go nuclear... Note to Taiwan, Japan, the PI and anyone else relying on U.S. support: Better have a plan B, C, D if plan A is counting on us. Even if we try, we're setting up for failure.
Yeah, we've had 15ish years with a bipartisan "treacherous as a friend, harmless as an enemy" foreign policy, but even if that changes, the rest is still a shambles.
We have raised a generation of officers and senior enlisted men that are in love with "special forces," "stealth aircraft," and "drones." The repair of the U.S.S. Yorktown, following the Battle of the Coral Sea was instrumental to our victory at Midway. Just the humble opinion of an old hermit. (YouTube has some excellent videos of the salvage operation at Pearl Harbor, just thought our leaders might want to watch them)
Watching g old B&W film of salvage and recovery at Pearl Harbor would take away valuable time from… Training!
DEI training supersedes salvage training.
When do we start recalling retired flag officers to duty to court martial them for gross dereliction of duty?
And others because we know we need fighting types passing lessons anew.
Unless you're going to humiliate them in a struggle session, waste of time.
Loss of rank and security clearance, forfeiture of pay and benefits. I’d be happy with that.
and FO's recalled and demoted don't get plum board seats and consulting gigs
We have to wait until we know their political contributions. If they are conservative, they'll be up on charges soon enough.
There is room at Mare Island right now.
Have to move the hippies off and import a work force. I loved living aboard M.I.
Soap and water!
There's no hippies in Solano County, they stay over on their side of hwy-37
Lol. Playing mini golf at Scandia I bet.
They don't go East of San Quentin.
What is to be expected when we elected in 1992 an admitted draft dodger with nary a peep from the people or veterans' organizations. Peace Dividend, we are fine with it because we keep voting for it.
"nary a peep from the people or veterans' organizations"
Evidently you were not paying attention.
I was active duty then and not in tune with the veteran's groups. Was there some resistance?
He could play the sax...
I think we stopped "voting for it" in 2016, but sadly after a brief hiccup the powers that be resumed "counting for it" in 2020.
There is a workforce that fixes MSC ships at Mare Island now.
CGC Polar Star is getting her annual post-OP Deep Freeze work done
I know BRAC was eons ago, but the mess it made is still being felt, maybe moreso today, than ever. The San Diego lobby that assasinated LBNS did us a great disservice. Replacing that capability on the Left Coast is desperately needed, but would take an extremely dedicated group of folks to make it happen. Shipyards arent waterfront condos, so they're ugly and unpopular with the investment crowd. But oh, what a couple new drydocks and repair facilities could do for the Navy!! Theres real estate in Portland and even Vancouver that would work great- but sadly itd take an Elon Musk type to make it happen. A person or group willing to create somthing for the greater good, that isnt based on profit per sq ft. I think that a joint effort between civilians and a govt that cuts thru bureauacracy and red tape to dig some holes, dredge some river, and build some piers could still happen, but you hafta get enough ppl on board, and that's still a tough proposition. Selling it for the jobs itd provide likely doesn't work because...nobody wants to work anymore!!
Maybe we need the govt to push its boundaries, and claim 'crucial need', in order to sweep aside all the enviro-regs and surveys and nonsense in order to build somthing useful...but how do you get the local officials to buy into it? How do we replicate the efforts that built the Arsenal of Democracy factories seemingly overnight? Im not expecting to build a yard that turns out 5 Connies a year out of Portland...but how about just a couple DDG-capable drydocks and pier space for say, 4 more?? Im not well versed on our sub issues, but how much sub maintenance capability could we add somewhere else thats not high-end, but still helps ease the strain on Puget Sound?? How much sub backlog DOESNT require a full "nuclear capable" yard?? Also on my wishlist- maybe a facility that builds floating drydocks with a standing order for 8-10 of them before the yard opens? (We're gonna need em!)
Idk, maybe Im just enamored with the history-rich area I live in, and spend too much time daydreaming about a next-generation, Kaiser-esque Navy presence here again...
But its a NICE daydream...!!
and VLS reload cranes
Bartlett is trying to get a repair yard for sub parts in Lordstown, Ohio. Rail parts to be repaired/replaced there, let the dockyard concentrate on the actual boat. Build that, and maybe a 2nd for the West Coast.
he Lorraine idea blows. If LSM and other combatants were seriously considered I'd get hot in Cleveland.
I'm not sure we're getting the Lorain (or anywhere else in the Lakes) shipbuilding facility. But the repair facility for sub parts is more doable, and would ease pressure on the coasts.
Portland is 100 miles up the Columbia and the most treacherous bar on the Pacific Coast. There is a better port to the south that has fast sea access, rail, and available industrial land - Coos Bay, Oregon. The former World’s Largest Lumber Shipping Port, former home of NAVFAC Coos Head, and producer of minesweepers during WWII to name just a few plusses. I believe the draft in the channel is 53’, but don‘t quote me on that. Current assets are limited to CGAS North Bend, a cutter, and some 44’/48’ boats in Charleston harbor.
Don't be silly, you always want to do your military construction at places that hate the military, are obsessed with Marxism and are run by BANANA activists, not places that embrace the US military.
Never thought about Coos Bay... I just considered the amount of industrial capacity and rail (plus companies with current naval repair ops) thats already here... But if the potential is there, Im not picky. Except Id enjoy seeing it happen daily... :)
A Non-sailor's observations:
1. Why do you put LCS-24 in the only large DD on the West coast?
2. Why shouldn't they have sent her to Portland? Or sunk her?
3. If the DDG is there for a AN/SLQ-32(V)7 upgrade, why put her in a DD?
4. As I understand it the AN/SLQ-32(V)7 is on the deck, not below the water. Am I missing something?
You already know that answer
LCS-24 - Beam. The dock is actually modified so she can put her door down while in the dock.
Need to do to install counter balance ballast for v7
The Boxer is only one of many candidates for the title of Navy canary in the coal mine.
U.S.S. Boise is merely a sparrow. Not as flashy as a canary.
My choice would be the Bonhomme Richard. Maybe we can ask the readers to pick their favorite ship.
I would “like” this article but I sure don’t like what I see when a ship is in an availability for FOUR YEARS and is still not functioning properly. This is an ongoing disgrace. It would be money well spent to send the ship and crew to a shipyard that can get things done the right way.
Was looking for this comment. If I understood correctly, they spent four years on maintenance/upgrades, months of workups getting ready, and then fell apart ten days(!) into a deployment.
I read elsewhere yesterday that the two SD dry docks were being utilized by a DDG and wait for it....an LCS. Thus the LHD might need to be moved to a drydock elsewhere on the west coast. So in other words, the barely functional LCS is a higher priority than a deployment-missing LHD. There must be something else to this story but that's what Defense News was saying yesterday.
Notice the LHD is also non-functional. 0 * N = 0
Math is a bitch.
I think you're on to something from a ship management perspective. No LCS shall ever be put in dry dock once commissioned. If maintenance is required that would put an LCS in dry dock, they will be decommissioned immediately.
BUDS Phase 2 can have an actual sinkex.
30 of them