My own view, the war would have happened sooner had Trump been re-elected or installed with a coup. Gasoline on the fire, I know, but where is your evidence (or rather speculation) that Putin behaves in any more of a restrained way toward Ukraine with Trump as President in 2021 and after?
As for Wilson, one of the more unfortunate presidential choices in our history. If only TR had been Republican nominee in 1912...yet some historians continue to extoll his "legacy" of a vision of a rules based international system, but they forget that his vision involved an apartheid US state as this system's leader, maintaining racist noblesse oblige toward non-white races.
There is absolutely NOTHING good about Woodrow Wilson. Son of a Confederate preacher, as racist as any Klan member, Wilson was the guy who re-segregated the Federal workforce when it was at least partly integrated. If Wilson had died of that stroke, we wouldn't be having the race war that is currently raging. "Wilsonian" should be a curse word.
The thing the "pragmatists" don't understand is that they *can't* save Russia and their fetishized status quo, no matter what they do. It's a choice between UKR victory with relatively limited loss of life and UKR victory with very heavy loss of life. The Ukrainians aren't going to permit any continued Muscovite occupation just to soothe the nerves of a bunch of useless "realists" in Washington.
I think that segment of the "pragmatists" of which you write has no love for Russia, they just are very sensitized to our financial situation, the deeper we are going into the war, and what China may do. I think the "pragmatists" have it right. What Biden has done is probably the only thing he has done well IMO. We are grinding RU down to a point where it will take them 5-10 years to do much, other than nuclear. It is a scary walk on the line but the Baltics, Poland and Moldavia hang in the balance and maybe more. It is much easier to provide a holding action and grind on them. Maybe they will stop, or the Oligarchs/Putin be overthrown. Europe needs to take more ownership and that is coming, slowly.
Having covered the antiwar left, including Chris Hedges and Medea Benjamin and Veterans For Peace getting arrested outside of the Obama White House, I know what happens to it during Democratic administrations: the press ignores them entirely.
They turned to Al Jazeera and Sputnik and RT America as news sources because those outlets did cover antiwar activity. Podcasters like Jimmy Dore are always popular with this segment of the left. The antiwar left always exists; Barbara Lee always exists. We just don't see them much unless their activism is conveniently aimed at a Republican.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loVtI_7xRHw Good overviews of this conflict but it is essentially a difference of paradigms at this point, like pro totalitarian vs anti totalitarian. Limited disclosure and freedom vs full freedom and disclosure. The splits amongst seemingly policy and medical decisions such as waxxines but ultimately it is the Apocalypse armageddon shifting of wheat.
Translation; you have been ratted out, Navy Divers planted the Nordstream Bombs.
Sy Hersh, the Go To guy for rat f_cking out others since Vietnam fingers the Navy Diving School in first paragraph, under CIA direction and with details on why Congress wasn’t read in. The Navy Diver is not a fighting man, but they’d better be lawyering up men. Complete with address and details that only the best divers were picked, which should narrow it down for the Mine Warfare Community, apparently small world. Also that the bombs were laid during BALTOPS 22, etc etc.
Yes for those who forgot Abu Gharib or Haditha, yes the lowest ranking men (or women) take the fall.
GET LAWYERS AND SAY NOTHING.
The system demonstrates power by treating subordinates and laws with contempt, they walk, military (and police) swing.
Get lawyers, say nothing. They will punish you, but if you talk they punish you far worse, you get years or decades instead of months. Like the Mafia, the lower ranks expected to take the hit.
Have fun, welcome to reality, Navy Divers. Not quite like “Men of Honor” now is it?
See who you serve. See them.
(The Rat to Hersh is painted in the Article as CIA, like Bosses untouchable, Navy Diving School ain’t Ivy League).
Let us say, Amen! I have lists beginning in 1964-65 of the SocDems/New Left agitators. My war ain't over until some of them hang. They have changed nothing but their stripes.
I could never imaging that Democrats could be divided in three groups 1) Neocons 2) Cowardly Neocons and 3) Neocons who believe we should fight China before Russia. I realize the world is surrounded in hypocrisy, but the anti-war, anti-Bush, anti-MIC liberals becoming pro war and pro MIC is WEIRD!
I'd like to put in a chit for you to do the Republicans Sal. I am moderate one but the argument that all the Ukraine money should be redirected to dealing with the border is bewildering to me. I know we can't solve everything and boil the ocean but it can't be all one way or the other no matter how great the desire to fix the border. Is it a throw-back to isolationism and desire to see tax money used on America's challenges?
One thing I haven’t heard many discuss IRT Russia is the fact that their fundamental geopolitical strategy is to create a time-distance problem in reaching Moscow. Eastward encroachment of Western influence threatens their security much like missiles in Cuba. I’m not defending them, but I haven’t seen much ink spilled on Russia’s fundamental mindset and the West’s threat to it.
Democrat leadership, and particularly Biden, have to protect their money laundering system. This war would not have happened, under Mr. Trump.
There is something rotten about this whole situation.
My own view, the war would have happened sooner had Trump been re-elected or installed with a coup. Gasoline on the fire, I know, but where is your evidence (or rather speculation) that Putin behaves in any more of a restrained way toward Ukraine with Trump as President in 2021 and after?
As for Wilson, one of the more unfortunate presidential choices in our history. If only TR had been Republican nominee in 1912...yet some historians continue to extoll his "legacy" of a vision of a rules based international system, but they forget that his vision involved an apartheid US state as this system's leader, maintaining racist noblesse oblige toward non-white races.
There is absolutely NOTHING good about Woodrow Wilson. Son of a Confederate preacher, as racist as any Klan member, Wilson was the guy who re-segregated the Federal workforce when it was at least partly integrated. If Wilson had died of that stroke, we wouldn't be having the race war that is currently raging. "Wilsonian" should be a curse word.
He was a truly Evil man.
The thing the "pragmatists" don't understand is that they *can't* save Russia and their fetishized status quo, no matter what they do. It's a choice between UKR victory with relatively limited loss of life and UKR victory with very heavy loss of life. The Ukrainians aren't going to permit any continued Muscovite occupation just to soothe the nerves of a bunch of useless "realists" in Washington.
I think that segment of the "pragmatists" of which you write has no love for Russia, they just are very sensitized to our financial situation, the deeper we are going into the war, and what China may do. I think the "pragmatists" have it right. What Biden has done is probably the only thing he has done well IMO. We are grinding RU down to a point where it will take them 5-10 years to do much, other than nuclear. It is a scary walk on the line but the Baltics, Poland and Moldavia hang in the balance and maybe more. It is much easier to provide a holding action and grind on them. Maybe they will stop, or the Oligarchs/Putin be overthrown. Europe needs to take more ownership and that is coming, slowly.
Having covered the antiwar left, including Chris Hedges and Medea Benjamin and Veterans For Peace getting arrested outside of the Obama White House, I know what happens to it during Democratic administrations: the press ignores them entirely.
They turned to Al Jazeera and Sputnik and RT America as news sources because those outlets did cover antiwar activity. Podcasters like Jimmy Dore are always popular with this segment of the left. The antiwar left always exists; Barbara Lee always exists. We just don't see them much unless their activism is conveniently aimed at a Republican.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qA7SoH-QmDA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loVtI_7xRHw Good overviews of this conflict but it is essentially a difference of paradigms at this point, like pro totalitarian vs anti totalitarian. Limited disclosure and freedom vs full freedom and disclosure. The splits amongst seemingly policy and medical decisions such as waxxines but ultimately it is the Apocalypse armageddon shifting of wheat.
The Anti-War left are paid professionals and on other projects when The Left or at least the Dems are in power.
So we have war, not too much war, war with China instead: they all have 2 things in common, none of them fight, all of them profit.
BTW Navy welcome to real war!
Translation; you have been ratted out, Navy Divers planted the Nordstream Bombs.
Sy Hersh, the Go To guy for rat f_cking out others since Vietnam fingers the Navy Diving School in first paragraph, under CIA direction and with details on why Congress wasn’t read in. The Navy Diver is not a fighting man, but they’d better be lawyering up men. Complete with address and details that only the best divers were picked, which should narrow it down for the Mine Warfare Community, apparently small world. Also that the bombs were laid during BALTOPS 22, etc etc.
https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream
Yes for those who forgot Abu Gharib or Haditha, yes the lowest ranking men (or women) take the fall.
GET LAWYERS AND SAY NOTHING.
The system demonstrates power by treating subordinates and laws with contempt, they walk, military (and police) swing.
Get lawyers, say nothing. They will punish you, but if you talk they punish you far worse, you get years or decades instead of months. Like the Mafia, the lower ranks expected to take the hit.
Have fun, welcome to reality, Navy Divers. Not quite like “Men of Honor” now is it?
See who you serve. See them.
(The Rat to Hersh is painted in the Article as CIA, like Bosses untouchable, Navy Diving School ain’t Ivy League).
Have fun now. We have already.
Let us say, Amen! I have lists beginning in 1964-65 of the SocDems/New Left agitators. My war ain't over until some of them hang. They have changed nothing but their stripes.
they are NOT on America's side.
I could never imaging that Democrats could be divided in three groups 1) Neocons 2) Cowardly Neocons and 3) Neocons who believe we should fight China before Russia. I realize the world is surrounded in hypocrisy, but the anti-war, anti-Bush, anti-MIC liberals becoming pro war and pro MIC is WEIRD!
I'd like to put in a chit for you to do the Republicans Sal. I am moderate one but the argument that all the Ukraine money should be redirected to dealing with the border is bewildering to me. I know we can't solve everything and boil the ocean but it can't be all one way or the other no matter how great the desire to fix the border. Is it a throw-back to isolationism and desire to see tax money used on America's challenges?
If you want action at the border, you've got the wrong CINC. Elections have consequences.
Oh we’re going to boil the ocean alright, and Russia will boil ours.
☢️
That’s where this is going and has been all along, all because the Boomers are dying and Galician Blood feuds.
The pragmatism is simply the instinct to avoid nuclear war, but some people have no experience of war and long for the big one.
One thing I haven’t heard many discuss IRT Russia is the fact that their fundamental geopolitical strategy is to create a time-distance problem in reaching Moscow. Eastward encroachment of Western influence threatens their security much like missiles in Cuba. I’m not defending them, but I haven’t seen much ink spilled on Russia’s fundamental mindset and the West’s threat to it.