Nelson is rolling in his grave…yet all sorts of sentimental attachment to the ‘special relationship’ does not solve the problem of utter British fecklessness. What few troops, aircraft, and ships they have are good, but the thin red line is gone - perhaps we should invite their NCOs and other thanks - and their families - to emigrate to the US and join us, unit histories intact, to become part of the bulwark of the West instead of an increasingly helplessly underfunded, poorly led, and woke remnant waiting for the last squaddie to turn out the lights as the light that was Britain fails.
Lord Nelson is now beyond even rolling in his grave; he's now advanced to a state of post-demise, rocking-catatonia. ["Rule Britannia?" No, more like "Rue all, Britannia!"] Sad, sad, sad. And 'ack-Tar' is now "Jack Tar'd"...
Works for me if it happens, but not likely. That leader certainly won’t be Chuck the Ridiculous. His sister Ann could have done even 20 years ago, but she’s too old. Don’t think it will be Willy either…tough enough to pile on Uncle Randy Andy but not to face down the muzzies.
I have lately grown fond of yesterday's TF Falklands and the extensive use of commercial shipping under STUFTS to make up shortfalls as the cautionary tale for today's US Navy / NEF / Dept. of War.
Today's UK Navy is the cautionary tale of tomorrow if our own stewardship does not change.
It was a fascinating story, one of my favorite wargaming experiences was playing Larry Bond's Harpoon and the Falklands war campaign. I sadly lost as the brits but my opponent fudged the rules by launching every single plane they had at me at once. They Argentinians simply didn't have the required number of pilots or the logistics for any such action.
The image in my head is of what's left of the Royal Navy singing "Rule, Brittania!" while ugly-crying, hiccuping and eating a whole half gallon of ice cream.
Given that the Islamic Republic of Britain is about to burst from the UK's chest cavity like a xenomorph in possession of nuclear launch codes, I'm glad it will have no navy to speak of in the near future.
Four decades ago Britain was BARELY able to scrape together the forces to take back the Falklands - and was only able to because the US agreed to pick up their assigned NATO responsibilities in AEW and ASW. Today, when they cannot respond a single destroyer to the Med?
My son was smitten by British, so much so, he can use a British accent! I wrote a song… to honor my son’s love of all things British! My home is filled with books about the Royal Navy! Yes, CDR look directly at me not too far from Washington D.C., here on the Chesapeake Bay! At about 0710 AM I was kind, but challenged this Caucasian man about 35 years old. My professional opinion; he was on a “Stimulant” as evidenced by walking on the bulkhead cap-board and aware enough not to let his feet get tangled up in the artificial ground overlaid by despicable AA workers skilled at Fraud, Waste, and Abuse, paid for by AA County and their poor workmanship ignored by AA County Permits and Inspections! I’ve been here for thirty-five (35), so I know and sas a lot!
On Cyprus, stand by because Turkey has sailed its ships! Moslem - Islam wants a strong hold in that area in the world; the Bank of Dubai will stop processing Persian funds (Iran)? Russia is mum on how it’s helping Persia (Iran). Do you want to escort ships through the Straight of Hormuz or…concentrate American dollars to build good and better USN ships! Yes, indeed speak up, speak loud and speak clear over the propaganda … and please answer me, what did the USCG do with the 22,000 pounds of COCAINE brought into our San Diego Naval Base? Eyes on our children! Eyes on our vunderable adults here in the USA, if you agree, please write me your answers here. How can I help our effort right here at 702- First Avenue, Deale, MD 20751. Thank you! With respect, Nurse Jane
Most of my experience is in the Pacific so I can't comment on the Royal Navy's troubles. However, the Royal Australian Navy doesn't seem to have the same difficulties and has an aggressive procurement strategy (which the US naval industrial base may or may not be able to support). The Japanese Navy (ahem, Maritime Self Defence Force) is also quite capable. As for Europe, look to countries like Poland and Finland that have a historical understanding of Russia.
The wife and I were in Nagasaki last week and I made a concerted effort to see the Mitsubishi shipyard.
Suzutsuki was heading out to sea, Ashigara and Haguro were undergoing refit and Natori, Tatsuta, Yoshii were fitting out with another unidentified frigate in dry dock #3.
It was extremely impressive to say the least and shows the JMSDF is definitely in the game to win.
Am I understanding that the Royal Navy only has TWENTY ships? Most of which are non-operational. If that is correct; it's not neglect but rather wholesale disarmament.
Yes, twenty is generous, I doubt they can get 6 vessels to sally at any given moment. Oh and their carriers, they don't have planes, small issue there.
They are the largest 2 warships the RN has ever built. This is where its nice to always use the 2 islands at the ends of the Eurasian landmass for comparison. Seems Japan got a more rounded out fleet by keeping to a true STOVL carrier at 800 feet.
I asked my friendly AI about previous naval declines and here's what he/she/they/it said:
My prompt to the AI "Didn't the USN and the Royal Navy fall into hard times in the late 1800s, maybe early 1900s? The U.S. built shore batteries, in the PNW and as a kid, I remember concrete structures on the Outer Banks NC. There was a naval revival in both countries in the 1890s (?)"
Gemini said
You have a sharp eye for naval history. You're touching on a period often called the "Dark Ages" of the U.S. Navy and a era of "splendid isolation" (and subsequent anxiety) for the Royal Navy.
While both nations faced different "hard times," they both hit a massive turning point in the 1880s and 1890s that led to the modern steel navies of the 20th century.
1. The U.S. Navy’s "Period of Decadence" (1865–1883)
After the Civil War, the U.S. Navy withered. The public was tired of war, and the government focused on westward expansion.
The Slump: By the late 1870s, the U.S. fleet was an international laughingstock—mostly rotting wooden ships with obsolete smoothbore guns. In a famous incident, a high-ranking officer noted that the entire U.S. fleet could be defeated by a single modern European ironclad.
The Solution (Shore Batteries): Because the Navy was too weak to fight at sea, the U.S. leaned into Coastal Defense. This led to the Endicott Board (1885), which designed the massive concrete fortifications you saw.
In the PNW: Fort Worden, Fort Casey, and Fort Flagler (the "Triangle of Fire") were built to protect Puget Sound.
On the Outer Banks: You likely saw the ruins of the Endicott-era batteries or the later Taft-era upgrades (like Battery 248 at Fort Raleigh or structures near Cape Hatteras), designed to keep enemy cruisers from shelling the coast.
2. The Royal Navy’s "Great Naval Scare"
The British didn't fall into "hard times" in terms of size, but they fell behind in technology and strategy.
The Slump: For decades after Waterloo, the Royal Navy relied on its reputation. However, by the 1880s, France and Russia began building fast, armored cruisers that threatened British trade.
The Crisis: In 1888, a "Naval Scare" hit the British press, claiming the Navy could no longer protect the Empire.
3. The 1890s Naval Revival
The "revival" you’re thinking of was sparked largely by one man: Captain Alfred Thayer Mahan. In 1890, he published The Influence of Sea Power Upon History.
In the U.S.: Mahan’s book convinced Congress that a "Great Nation" must have a "Great Navy." We stopped building just "coastal defense" ships and started building Battleships (like the USS Oregon and USS Indiana).
In the UK: The British passed the Naval Defence Act of 1889, which adopted the "Two-Power Standard"—the requirement that the Royal Navy be as large as the next two largest navies combined.
The Concrete Ruins
Those structures you remember in North Carolina and the ones near you in Washington are the "bones" of this transition. They were the last line of defense while the "New Navy" was still being built. By the time the massive battleships of WWI arrived, many of those concrete batteries were already becoming obsolete because naval guns could suddenly outrange them.
A revitalized Navy League, anyone? In terms of imaginary warships, I prefer Alec Guinness' Defiant to Star Trek's or Trump's. How about a "Two-Power" act of our own, funded by a tax on personal assets in excess of $10 million, personal income in excess of $10 million, and a minimum alternative business tax of 10%. Look up the tax rates in the 1950s if you're worried about tax rates. Somebody's got to pay for a new navy. Jabbering about it won't change things. YMMV.
Yup, one (among many) of the things that got him noticed by the Republican national figures. He was such a pest they stuck him in the ceremonial position of Vice President.
The European 'brain trust' is much better at having meetings, forming discussion groups, and building a consensus than actually acting. It was very telling that when the war broke out their reaction was "We'll have a zoom meeting on Monday and get back to you." Say what you want about the Trump admin, at least they are very decisive when it comes time to act.
Eurabia. All the more reason to be EXTREMELY careful (and discriminating, in the sense of judging) who is allowed into one's country. You don't just bring in people, you accept lineages and cultures.
Great post CDR Sal. Just waking up here on the West Coast to this sobering read. Cfrog nails it — today's Royal Navy is the cautionary tale of tomorrow if our own stewardship doesn't change. The decline didn't happen overnight. It was the accumulated result of budgets that chose comfort over capability, decade after decade. The 1970s hollow Navy I served in had the same warning signs. We rebuilt then because we had to. The question is whether we'll act before we're forced to — or after. Bill Cullifer, Founder StrongerNavy.org
Whether by 'idiotic politicians' driving the British Defense Ministry or our Pentagon, they are all elected. Much like many of our tired, old American cities, England is being eaten alive from within. Unless our populations are willing, able and motivated to stand up and fight, there is little hope for clear water downstream.
I don’t disagree with any of what is written there but as a Brit I am at least hopeful that the tide is turning. Significant investment has been made into the Govan, Barrow, Rosyth & Belfast shipyards and if the political will is there, big if, a government has the capacity to significantly increase the size of the fleet back up to the 1990’s levels by mid-century which is a start at least.
Some innovative commercial practices like the Arrowyard concept could further increase capacity quite rapidly as well.
That's going to require an investment into blast furnaces to process new steel. I'm not confident that the UK leadership is ready to do that as of yet.
The leadership will ultimately do what is politically expedient. If they can successfully make the case to the British public, by tying the poor condition of the Navy to our susceptibility to economic shocks, then they will have the political capital to do what is necessary.
Nonetheless we’ll all have to see what happens with the DIP, should it ever appear.
The foundations are at least there for a resurgence.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
I see much talk of fifth columns, non-nativist agenda’s and generally a lot of hysteria about Britain online, much of it from abroad, all I can say is that is not my own experience actually living day to day here.
The vast majority of people want peace and prosperity and the case can easily be made to tie the welfare of the Royal Navy into achieving this. If this is successful, then I do believe it will be all hands on deck for the population as a whole, if you’ll pardon the pun.
Sorry, I didn't mean to be opaque. I was referring the the tsunami of illegal immigrants who have flooded ALL Western countries and have first, sucked the social services $$ dry and then unchecked, as your London Mayor and our Minnesota Representative, imbeded themselves into our administrative and legislative bodies to implement programs which support their collegues and the expense of national interests
Even with air power it is impossible to be a world power without an adequate navy. 5 available ships total isn't even enough to protect the waters around their home island.
Royal navy is like a old patient in hospital . All his treatment goes towards trading symptoms and now he is thinking of the good old days
Nelson is rolling in his grave…yet all sorts of sentimental attachment to the ‘special relationship’ does not solve the problem of utter British fecklessness. What few troops, aircraft, and ships they have are good, but the thin red line is gone - perhaps we should invite their NCOs and other thanks - and their families - to emigrate to the US and join us, unit histories intact, to become part of the bulwark of the West instead of an increasingly helplessly underfunded, poorly led, and woke remnant waiting for the last squaddie to turn out the lights as the light that was Britain fails.
Well take the Ghurka's too and add them to our military just as we do with Philipinos.
Yes
My understanding is that there is a surplus of candidates to join the UK Gurkhas
Lord Nelson is now beyond even rolling in his grave; he's now advanced to a state of post-demise, rocking-catatonia. ["Rule Britannia?" No, more like "Rue all, Britannia!"] Sad, sad, sad. And 'ack-Tar' is now "Jack Tar'd"...
Actually, what they need is a leader to muster the Englishmen and drive out the foreign invaders. Vanquish the House of Windsor if necessary.
Works for me if it happens, but not likely. That leader certainly won’t be Chuck the Ridiculous. His sister Ann could have done even 20 years ago, but she’s too old. Don’t think it will be Willy either…tough enough to pile on Uncle Randy Andy but not to face down the muzzies.
I have lately grown fond of yesterday's TF Falklands and the extensive use of commercial shipping under STUFTS to make up shortfalls as the cautionary tale for today's US Navy / NEF / Dept. of War.
Today's UK Navy is the cautionary tale of tomorrow if our own stewardship does not change.
It was a fascinating story, one of my favorite wargaming experiences was playing Larry Bond's Harpoon and the Falklands war campaign. I sadly lost as the brits but my opponent fudged the rules by launching every single plane they had at me at once. They Argentinians simply didn't have the required number of pilots or the logistics for any such action.
True except we have damned few ships to take up.
how about 'sieze'
Legally problematic
It amazes me we are leaving the Iranian fleet of 32 tankers alone.
The image in my head is of what's left of the Royal Navy singing "Rule, Brittania!" while ugly-crying, hiccuping and eating a whole half gallon of ice cream.
The sun may soon set on what's left of England.
> Most of our traditional European allies have exhausted their desire to be involved in other people’s conflicts—even when on their doorstep.
Sir, let's face it. Most of them don't even care enough to be prepared for their *own* conflicts, as the parlous state of the Royal Navy shows.
They maintain a military establishment just sufficient to slaughter a disarmed populace who objects to their importation of a new muslim master class.
Given that the Islamic Republic of Britain is about to burst from the UK's chest cavity like a xenomorph in possession of nuclear launch codes, I'm glad it will have no navy to speak of in the near future.
They expect NATO and the US to provide the heft.
Sorry, we've got our own commitments....
Four decades ago Britain was BARELY able to scrape together the forces to take back the Falklands - and was only able to because the US agreed to pick up their assigned NATO responsibilities in AEW and ASW. Today, when they cannot respond a single destroyer to the Med?
CDR, good morning!
My son was smitten by British, so much so, he can use a British accent! I wrote a song… to honor my son’s love of all things British! My home is filled with books about the Royal Navy! Yes, CDR look directly at me not too far from Washington D.C., here on the Chesapeake Bay! At about 0710 AM I was kind, but challenged this Caucasian man about 35 years old. My professional opinion; he was on a “Stimulant” as evidenced by walking on the bulkhead cap-board and aware enough not to let his feet get tangled up in the artificial ground overlaid by despicable AA workers skilled at Fraud, Waste, and Abuse, paid for by AA County and their poor workmanship ignored by AA County Permits and Inspections! I’ve been here for thirty-five (35), so I know and sas a lot!
On Cyprus, stand by because Turkey has sailed its ships! Moslem - Islam wants a strong hold in that area in the world; the Bank of Dubai will stop processing Persian funds (Iran)? Russia is mum on how it’s helping Persia (Iran). Do you want to escort ships through the Straight of Hormuz or…concentrate American dollars to build good and better USN ships! Yes, indeed speak up, speak loud and speak clear over the propaganda … and please answer me, what did the USCG do with the 22,000 pounds of COCAINE brought into our San Diego Naval Base? Eyes on our children! Eyes on our vunderable adults here in the USA, if you agree, please write me your answers here. How can I help our effort right here at 702- First Avenue, Deale, MD 20751. Thank you! With respect, Nurse Jane
Most of my experience is in the Pacific so I can't comment on the Royal Navy's troubles. However, the Royal Australian Navy doesn't seem to have the same difficulties and has an aggressive procurement strategy (which the US naval industrial base may or may not be able to support). The Japanese Navy (ahem, Maritime Self Defence Force) is also quite capable. As for Europe, look to countries like Poland and Finland that have a historical understanding of Russia.
Australia’s procurement activities whipsaw depending on how the election cycle goes…just like ours.
The wife and I were in Nagasaki last week and I made a concerted effort to see the Mitsubishi shipyard.
Suzutsuki was heading out to sea, Ashigara and Haguro were undergoing refit and Natori, Tatsuta, Yoshii were fitting out with another unidentified frigate in dry dock #3.
It was extremely impressive to say the least and shows the JMSDF is definitely in the game to win.
This may solve some of their energy problems: Lord Nelson is spinning in his grave fast enough to generate electricity.
Am I understanding that the Royal Navy only has TWENTY ships? Most of which are non-operational. If that is correct; it's not neglect but rather wholesale disarmament.
Yes, twenty is generous, I doubt they can get 6 vessels to sally at any given moment. Oh and their carriers, they don't have planes, small issue there.
And look at what is missing:
No functional carriers (even the ... modest sized carriers they built).
No functional subs (carrying their strategic weapons - well, our weapons)
And I'd argue that since HMS Dragon cannot sortie TODAY, NOW, they are not operational. So, two Type-45 is perhaps wishful.
There are 3 Vanguard class SSBNs (1 in refit)
16 Tridents each (with up to 12 MIRVs)
They are the largest 2 warships the RN has ever built. This is where its nice to always use the 2 islands at the ends of the Eurasian landmass for comparison. Seems Japan got a more rounded out fleet by keeping to a true STOVL carrier at 800 feet.
I asked my friendly AI about previous naval declines and here's what he/she/they/it said:
My prompt to the AI "Didn't the USN and the Royal Navy fall into hard times in the late 1800s, maybe early 1900s? The U.S. built shore batteries, in the PNW and as a kid, I remember concrete structures on the Outer Banks NC. There was a naval revival in both countries in the 1890s (?)"
Gemini said
You have a sharp eye for naval history. You're touching on a period often called the "Dark Ages" of the U.S. Navy and a era of "splendid isolation" (and subsequent anxiety) for the Royal Navy.
While both nations faced different "hard times," they both hit a massive turning point in the 1880s and 1890s that led to the modern steel navies of the 20th century.
1. The U.S. Navy’s "Period of Decadence" (1865–1883)
After the Civil War, the U.S. Navy withered. The public was tired of war, and the government focused on westward expansion.
The Slump: By the late 1870s, the U.S. fleet was an international laughingstock—mostly rotting wooden ships with obsolete smoothbore guns. In a famous incident, a high-ranking officer noted that the entire U.S. fleet could be defeated by a single modern European ironclad.
The Solution (Shore Batteries): Because the Navy was too weak to fight at sea, the U.S. leaned into Coastal Defense. This led to the Endicott Board (1885), which designed the massive concrete fortifications you saw.
In the PNW: Fort Worden, Fort Casey, and Fort Flagler (the "Triangle of Fire") were built to protect Puget Sound.
On the Outer Banks: You likely saw the ruins of the Endicott-era batteries or the later Taft-era upgrades (like Battery 248 at Fort Raleigh or structures near Cape Hatteras), designed to keep enemy cruisers from shelling the coast.
2. The Royal Navy’s "Great Naval Scare"
The British didn't fall into "hard times" in terms of size, but they fell behind in technology and strategy.
The Slump: For decades after Waterloo, the Royal Navy relied on its reputation. However, by the 1880s, France and Russia began building fast, armored cruisers that threatened British trade.
The Crisis: In 1888, a "Naval Scare" hit the British press, claiming the Navy could no longer protect the Empire.
3. The 1890s Naval Revival
The "revival" you’re thinking of was sparked largely by one man: Captain Alfred Thayer Mahan. In 1890, he published The Influence of Sea Power Upon History.
In the U.S.: Mahan’s book convinced Congress that a "Great Nation" must have a "Great Navy." We stopped building just "coastal defense" ships and started building Battleships (like the USS Oregon and USS Indiana).
In the UK: The British passed the Naval Defence Act of 1889, which adopted the "Two-Power Standard"—the requirement that the Royal Navy be as large as the next two largest navies combined.
The Concrete Ruins
Those structures you remember in North Carolina and the ones near you in Washington are the "bones" of this transition. They were the last line of defense while the "New Navy" was still being built. By the time the massive battleships of WWI arrived, many of those concrete batteries were already becoming obsolete because naval guns could suddenly outrange them.
A revitalized Navy League, anyone? In terms of imaginary warships, I prefer Alec Guinness' Defiant to Star Trek's or Trump's. How about a "Two-Power" act of our own, funded by a tax on personal assets in excess of $10 million, personal income in excess of $10 million, and a minimum alternative business tax of 10%. Look up the tax rates in the 1950s if you're worried about tax rates. Somebody's got to pay for a new navy. Jabbering about it won't change things. YMMV.
Teddy Roosevelt was one of America's greatest men, he really championed the Navy. Thank him for the rebirth as well.
https://theodoreroosevelt.org/content.aspx?page_id=22&club_id=991271&module_id=339342
Yup, one (among many) of the things that got him noticed by the Republican national figures. He was such a pest they stuck him in the ceremonial position of Vice President.
Shore based gunnery did remain relevant in WWI and even WWII. Look at the guns at Akaba or the Oslofjord, they were problematic and they were deadly.
I recall exploring the coastal defense batteries of Fort MacArthur, protecting the Ports of Los Angeles/Long Beach in California.
Built in 1914, and still standing strong. They literally don't make them like that any more.
Fort Barrancas in Pensacola, 1844. https://www.nps.gov/guis/learn/historyculture/fort-barrancas.htm
The European 'brain trust' is much better at having meetings, forming discussion groups, and building a consensus than actually acting. It was very telling that when the war broke out their reaction was "We'll have a zoom meeting on Monday and get back to you." Say what you want about the Trump admin, at least they are very decisive when it comes time to act.
Eurabia. All the more reason to be EXTREMELY careful (and discriminating, in the sense of judging) who is allowed into one's country. You don't just bring in people, you accept lineages and cultures.
Back in the day when there was pressure to assimilate there was some wiggle room.
Now that the pressure is to NOT assimilate, 95% of the world's population is disqualified.
People with the IQ of retards can not be assimilated into an advances society.
Oriana Fallaci hit the nail on the head.
The rose in the vase, that looked so beautiful but was doomed to die now has wilted to dust.
Great post CDR Sal. Just waking up here on the West Coast to this sobering read. Cfrog nails it — today's Royal Navy is the cautionary tale of tomorrow if our own stewardship doesn't change. The decline didn't happen overnight. It was the accumulated result of budgets that chose comfort over capability, decade after decade. The 1970s hollow Navy I served in had the same warning signs. We rebuilt then because we had to. The question is whether we'll act before we're forced to — or after. Bill Cullifer, Founder StrongerNavy.org
Whether by 'idiotic politicians' driving the British Defense Ministry or our Pentagon, they are all elected. Much like many of our tired, old American cities, England is being eaten alive from within. Unless our populations are willing, able and motivated to stand up and fight, there is little hope for clear water downstream.
I don’t disagree with any of what is written there but as a Brit I am at least hopeful that the tide is turning. Significant investment has been made into the Govan, Barrow, Rosyth & Belfast shipyards and if the political will is there, big if, a government has the capacity to significantly increase the size of the fleet back up to the 1990’s levels by mid-century which is a start at least.
Some innovative commercial practices like the Arrowyard concept could further increase capacity quite rapidly as well.
That's going to require an investment into blast furnaces to process new steel. I'm not confident that the UK leadership is ready to do that as of yet.
The leadership will ultimately do what is politically expedient. If they can successfully make the case to the British public, by tying the poor condition of the Navy to our susceptibility to economic shocks, then they will have the political capital to do what is necessary.
Nonetheless we’ll all have to see what happens with the DIP, should it ever appear.
The foundations are at least there for a resurgence.
But it seems like the money as well as the political will is being consumed by non-native internal interests...very sad to say
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
I see much talk of fifth columns, non-nativist agenda’s and generally a lot of hysteria about Britain online, much of it from abroad, all I can say is that is not my own experience actually living day to day here.
The vast majority of people want peace and prosperity and the case can easily be made to tie the welfare of the Royal Navy into achieving this. If this is successful, then I do believe it will be all hands on deck for the population as a whole, if you’ll pardon the pun.
Sorry, I didn't mean to be opaque. I was referring the the tsunami of illegal immigrants who have flooded ALL Western countries and have first, sucked the social services $$ dry and then unchecked, as your London Mayor and our Minnesota Representative, imbeded themselves into our administrative and legislative bodies to implement programs which support their collegues and the expense of national interests
Even with air power it is impossible to be a world power without an adequate navy. 5 available ships total isn't even enough to protect the waters around their home island.
And all of their strategic nuclear assets (submarines, not bombers) are in the shop.
And hopefully they stay there for when we need to impose nuclear disarmament on an Islamic Britain.