The Japanese learned their value the hard way when they went all-in at Midway in 1942, consolidating their most valuable asset in one location so could sink all four carriers. That was nice of them. That single event made it absolutely certain Japan would lose the war, and they knew it.
Perhaps the Commander is not aware that USN CVN's are armored - about on the scale of a WW1 era battleship? [The amphib LHA/LHDs that are sort of second class carriers are not]. Or perhaps by vulnerable he simply means they are too big to hide in this era of OTH radar, imagery, and, operationally, because they tend to transmit so many signals so much of the time any enemy with an intercept receiver within upwards of a thousand nautical miles knows exactly where they are? I used to track the first USS Enterprise AND identify her easily because only she and the CVN Long Beach were fitted with the SPS-32/33 radar system which was turned on radiating powerful, easily identifiable radar beams.
I disliked sailing up the Mekong with just ALUMINUM superstructure, so I recommended Kevlar armor. I found a picture dated a few years later - that suggestion WAS followed eventually. But it was probably unwise to risk $140 million DDGs in the Mekong River at all. The problem with the Navy is - you must go where your ship goes.
I thought it was potentially reckless to sail a 4500 ton DDG up the Mekong. But the Bearn? Not what I consider to be reasonable operating waters for such a gigantic ship, never mind one that needs room for carrier ops.
You mean the second USS Enterprise carrier. Or the 8th named US naval vessel “Enterprise”. Certainly not the first.
As for carrier vulnerabilities, I was a TAO on an aircraft carrier. I can tell you from first hand experience, there are very specific vulnerabilities and the CVN is not infallible.
PACFLT himself said he expects to lose at least 2 carriers in a war with China. He even went to say that the estimate was conservative.
I wonder what the state of todays Navys DC training is?? Back in my day, we went to Gitmo for Hell Month (our schedule always made it land in the summer) before a deployment. But when we left there, we were absolutely on top of our DC game. Are the kids today that well trained? Because thats the difference between a Franklin/Forrestal/Enterprise, and being the first navy to lose a CVN...
There are advanced DC courses that certain divisions send their people. Most of ships company get a 2 day course at FTG for shipboard firefighting or aircraft firefighting. It’s not the same level of DC training we did back in the day at REFTRA. The carrier has riders that come aboard and train and drill during work ups. The flight deck crews get a little more training. The AB’s have it as part of their apprenticeship training in P’cola before reporting aboard and then get the 2 day at FTG. It’s not what it was. But they drill constantly on duty days in port, and GQ underway.
By the SDFD after getting called, driving onto base, then the pier then entering the ship on their own accord without proper direction from the Navy, the Navy took hours to start fighting the fire if I remember correctly. Lets not forget.
There is no sea control in the absence of air superiority that in many places must be provided by carrier-based aircraft. The carrier has been, and always will be susceptible to attack, vulnerable to damage and difficult to recover from damage to her flight deck and or hanger. All that said, carriers are essential to any global navy and remain the most survivable airfields on the planet.
The Japanese learned their value the hard way when they went all-in at Midway in 1942, consolidating their most valuable asset in one location so could sink all four carriers. That was nice of them. That single event made it absolutely certain Japan would lose the war, and they knew it.
Perhaps the Commander is not aware that USN CVN's are armored - about on the scale of a WW1 era battleship? [The amphib LHA/LHDs that are sort of second class carriers are not]. Or perhaps by vulnerable he simply means they are too big to hide in this era of OTH radar, imagery, and, operationally, because they tend to transmit so many signals so much of the time any enemy with an intercept receiver within upwards of a thousand nautical miles knows exactly where they are? I used to track the first USS Enterprise AND identify her easily because only she and the CVN Long Beach were fitted with the SPS-32/33 radar system which was turned on radiating powerful, easily identifiable radar beams.
There is armor and then there is armor. Flight deck, waterline, main engineering spaces, steering gears, etc.
Correct. And many warships have had limited armor for engineering spaces, which in my view include steering gear.
Armored like Arizona, Oklahoma, Tirpitz, Bismarck, Scharnhorst, Yamato, Musashi, ...etc.?
Like fortifications on land, armor on ships only slows and limits the progress of destruction, it doesn't eliminate it.
I disliked sailing up the Mekong with just ALUMINUM superstructure, so I recommended Kevlar armor. I found a picture dated a few years later - that suggestion WAS followed eventually. But it was probably unwise to risk $140 million DDGs in the Mekong River at all. The problem with the Navy is - you must go where your ship goes.
The French I believe actually sailed a Carrier into the Mekong possibly the Bearn.
Not a Fleet CV but still a carrier LOL
I thought it was potentially reckless to sail a 4500 ton DDG up the Mekong. But the Bearn? Not what I consider to be reasonable operating waters for such a gigantic ship, never mind one that needs room for carrier ops.
Given that WW2 is our most recent experience (80 yrs being "recent"), this Drachinifel episode is a relevant data point.
'Armoured' and 'Unarmoured' Carriers - Survivability vs Strike Power
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dHdGHP8hCg
As far as carrier production goes, this one is nice from 7:00 to 28:30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooSCxED5MDs
Tanks are are armored, but a $20,000.00 rocket in the hands of a sandal clad Anti Tank man can kill it quick.
CV's are huge fuel tanks, and loaded with Ordinance.
All it takes is a good hard hit, good hot fire and that armor weakens and the CV is a Mission kill.
You mean the second USS Enterprise carrier. Or the 8th named US naval vessel “Enterprise”. Certainly not the first.
As for carrier vulnerabilities, I was a TAO on an aircraft carrier. I can tell you from first hand experience, there are very specific vulnerabilities and the CVN is not infallible.
PACFLT himself said he expects to lose at least 2 carriers in a war with China. He even went to say that the estimate was conservative.
I wonder what the state of todays Navys DC training is?? Back in my day, we went to Gitmo for Hell Month (our schedule always made it land in the summer) before a deployment. But when we left there, we were absolutely on top of our DC game. Are the kids today that well trained? Because thats the difference between a Franklin/Forrestal/Enterprise, and being the first navy to lose a CVN...
One hour and fifty-five minutes to get water on the fire in San Diego.
That’s hot….
There are advanced DC courses that certain divisions send their people. Most of ships company get a 2 day course at FTG for shipboard firefighting or aircraft firefighting. It’s not the same level of DC training we did back in the day at REFTRA. The carrier has riders that come aboard and train and drill during work ups. The flight deck crews get a little more training. The AB’s have it as part of their apprenticeship training in P’cola before reporting aboard and then get the 2 day at FTG. It’s not what it was. But they drill constantly on duty days in port, and GQ underway.
Yep'r ... I have some time deployed on CVN ... it is amazing what just one Zuni rocket can do to one ...
A very valuable asset, a needed vehicle, but very vulnerable.
No matter the AAA/SAM and MiG CAP a bomber can and will get through.
We have to have them and in a war we will lose them.
By the SDFD after getting called, driving onto base, then the pier then entering the ship on their own accord without proper direction from the Navy, the Navy took hours to start fighting the fire if I remember correctly. Lets not forget.
There is no sea control in the absence of air superiority that in many places must be provided by carrier-based aircraft. The carrier has been, and always will be susceptible to attack, vulnerable to damage and difficult to recover from damage to her flight deck and or hanger. All that said, carriers are essential to any global navy and remain the most survivable airfields on the planet.
Indeed, this Commander bloke knows nothing.
He probably has never read any naval history.