I’m starting to see this discussion show up in more places. The Chicomms are using debt as both a carrot and stick all over the world, it’s about time we did the same.
Maybe we should go to countries that have Chicomm financed infrastructure and give them these bonds to use in repayment when the Chicomms move to take control of their infrastructure.
Looks like you caught me out in a bit of knee-jerk bluster, Red. I blame the article for getting me spun up because it struck a nerve. I loaned RD3 Englehart $20 in 1970 right before I went to Vietnam. He promised to pay me back. Never happened. Have zero expertise in finance, economics or law and am not a diplomat nor a mob goon who has ever collected the vig on an overdue Mafia loan either. "How", indeed, do we not look weak with the feckless morons this administration would send to play hardball with China? I'll give it a shot: Treat them the same way you would a bad street food vendor or someone who has owed you money since 1938. You wholly admit your weakness by not insisting on payment. If they refuse or waffle, shun them. Find more honorable people to do business with. We could also tell them that any U.S. T-Bills they have, debt we owe them or assets they have sitting here will be swapped for the bonds we hold. If they don't pay up that doesn't make us weak. It makes them thieving SOB's. Let them wear the mantel.
if you have no expertise in finance, economics, law or mafia mob goon tactics then how can you call anyone who does anything to collect a debt a feckless moron? How do you know the proper method to treat someone who is a bad street food vendor or someone who has owed you money since 1938 when you admittedly have no experience or expertise in this area? Best you sit down and STFU Dale.
Let's remember that I did own up to "a bit of knee-jerk bluster". It was a disclaimer, Kuso-jiji. I lack any special expertise, but have some experience and knowledge. Don't think I called anyone a feckless moron. Rather, I implied that the pool of able negotiators on this administration's approved list that they could draw from to deal with China is very small, inept, and indisputably feckless. <---Pretty much sure I nailed that. Have watched plenty of Mafia movies and have seen how they deal with people who stiff them or serve them a muffaletta with ketchup on it. My own style is to try polite feedback. Thank you for yours. (Liked the stylistic e. e. cummings "if". Between STFU and Dale, maybe a comma?) Watashi no namae wa Okani-san desu. Tomodachi ni narou.
You're welcome for my polite feedback. "This administration". Jeez Louise. Your quote: "How", indeed, do we not look weak with the feckless morons this administration would send to play hardball with China?"
Wish we could get past "R" or "D" and just be Americans. Probably too much to wish for since the last administration was just so awesome and this one is filled with feckless morons.
And I could give two poops about being friendly with someone who says the elected officials of my nation are feckless morons. I don't have to agree with either one, but President Trump and President Biden were / are the leaders of this nation. President Trump lost in 2020, but from 2016 to 2020 he was our elected leader and deserved the respect his elected office conveyed. Same with President Biden.
How about you call that worthless commie Xi and the rest of those commie PRC dipsticks feckless morons instead of the leaders of your own country, you feckless moron? How was that comma placement for you?
Time to stick it to these commies…just one problem: the ChiComs own our political class, either explicitly or implicitly—and it shows…also, an alarming number of these politicians and leaders sound like communists (AOC and The Squad, BHO, Gavin Newsome, and most of the senate’s current majority leadership).
No doubt in the case of every president since Reagan and excluding Trump. Nixon was on the ChiCom payroll, the Clintons (garden variety grifters should have gotten “for sale” signs to wear, and Hillary is a full-throated communist), and probably the Bush family (in the rear view they were a bit too excited about “welcoming” the ChiComs and converting them—not unlike the tripe used to sell Iraq).
Nixon was not on the Chinese payroll, he was desperate to end the war in Vietnam, he considered Duck Hook and Pruning knife along with bombing the Red River dikes as well as others. Reports were that the deaths and destruction would rival that of Cities being bombed in WW2.
He went to China hat in hand and asked them what they wanted if they helped end the Vietnam war. They told him and he complied, North Vietnam resisted so an abbreviated Pruning knife went through in 72/73 Linebacker, Mining the Harbors and rivers. US Navy and Air Force got weapons free to go downtown and bomb.
The PAVN Easter Offensive was destroyed.
Results, End of active US involvement in Vietnam. Then as in Kabul, and soon Ukraine the US simply walked away.
I fully understand why our political class hasn’t taken action on this. The only reason I can find for the bond holders group to fail to take action is that they are in bed with the politicians.
The bondholders lack clout compared to the S&P 500, everyone who bitches about China but doesn't want to pony up to buy at least Mexican, and the few people who still think China can change.
My thought was that a U.S. court could force the U.S. government to pursue the bond holders’ claim in either an international court or by direct negotiations with the PRC. I realize that it probably seems like I live in la-la land, but it would be very interesting to watch our government squirm around trying to avoid its responsibilities to its citizens. I believe firmly in sunlight as the best disinfectant when it comes to these matters.
See my comment below. Invest in speculative foreign assets, that's on you. US Government has no legal obligation to back up your poor investment choices.
No legal obligation, but special laws are passed by Congress all the time when it is in the interest of either the members or their friends. In this case it is to the benefit of a sovereign United States to support this particular group of claims. I’d be fine with trading bond for bond as a way of eliminating this Chinese weapon.
And when His Majesty's Royal Marines occupy Jackson, Mississippi to uphold a British court demand for repayment of British bondholders, how good will your idea seem?
Ultimately all legal decisions are enforced thru believable threat. We do not fear the Brits, and right now the PRC have no fear of us, whereas I can easily see the U.S. government rolling over and playing dead over the financial debt we own he PRC.
Everything would depend on the nature of the court’s ruling. In my mind, the most interesting scenario would be SCOTUS requiring a dollar-for-dollar swap of bonds and the White House refusing to act seriously on the matter. Parties and administrations have been overthrown for lesser reasons.
Ever see that Movie "MARS ATTACKS!" 1996 Where the POTUS Jack Nicholas has a staff who even after the Martians vaporize Congress after saying they want peace still say, after the smoke clears "Well, They did say they come in peace" while looking dreamingly off into the Horizon.
They listen to Chinese officials who mouth the same platitudes The Government wants to hear and disregard the Chinese doing things that relate to war.
Our Government is being willingly led down the garden path to the showers.
Time to show China that when Uncle is serious at it, getting into economic warfare with the US is the like getting into kinetic warfare..... against every military force from Sargon's Palace Guard to today.
A nice opportunity that will likely never happen. In some ways, a kinetic contest could be our financial saviour- if we had the will to actually use it. Seize all Chinese assets. Cancel all debt. Idk if its "legal", but surely theres a bill or Executive Order that would make it so.
Of course all those funds would be needed to rebuild the USN after it gets spanked in WestPac, but I digress...
If you owe the bank $1000 you're in trouble, if you owe $1,000,000 the bank's in trouble. Not sure how you're going to declare them in default and seize their assets.
Because there are many banks here. These bonds are held by many creditors. Also, since this claim affects the credit worthiness of the PRC's sovereign debt, it will affect debts held by other nations and future loan interest rates as well.
This is shady as hell. Needs further investigation, smells like astroturfing. Sad to see the unquestioning knee-jerking here.
I bet this is a lobbying effort in behalf of a group of "vulture capitalists" who have bought an interest in these bonds - classic "distressed debt" - for mills on the dollar and now want to enlist the US as their thug collector to make a fantastic return. Note that none of the holders are named in the story, nor does their website list any institutions or names. Most of the "20,000 American citizens" likely have a small interest in funds which hold the bonds. A few have much larger interests. It appears to be similar to the situation of the group of purchasers of defaulted Argentine debt a couple of years ago.
These people want the US Treasury to buy the bonds from them. At what price? Face value? Are they just made whole for the mills on the dollar they likely paid, or do they get a healthy capital gain? Then the USA is going to collect from China? Ridiculous.
The bonds in question were defaulted on because of an act of force majeure - the Japanese invasion of China. Aside from that, the Republic of China was notoriously corrupt per Stilwell and the PRC would be justified in repudiating the debt under "odious debt" principles which have been applied to other successor states in the past, eg Iraq.
Doing what this guy suggests is classic 19th century / 1914 road to war and the USA isn't even ready. We don't need to start WW III now to benefit investors in extremely speculative assets, wanting to make stupendous gains.
You want to invest in highly speculative foreign assets, fine. But don't expect the US government to be your goon / bailout.
Get real. This is an attempt to get the USG to bail out private investors in risky foreign assets by buying the bonds at an inflated market value. It's wrapped up in anti-China Grand Stratergy on the level of Pinky and The Brain.
The fact that you and others fell for this shilling is discouraging. The March of Folly, as Tuchman put it.
The real current market value of these bonds is negligible. How could they offset any US debt with China without the US blatantly lying about the defaulted debt's real value and further diminishing its credibility?
Any of the other actions would just depress the value of US Treasury offerings and raise real interest rates by destroying faith in US sovereign debt. Do you really want to wreck the dollar?
There would be some kind of Chinese retaliation, like repudiating debt of Chinese companies in US hands, eg Bank of China etc, or closing China to some US products.
Has anyone here ever looked at a debt market? There's a reason why Argentine debt on the market today is offering a yield of 22%
Where was the assumption of all of the credit holding by the US government proposed? This is just a point of leverage in Sino-American negotiations. There is no need for the US to become the sole creditor of these bonds to demand their repayment in exchange for PRC concessions in other areas.
The PRC cannot simply "repudiate" their sovereign debt without massive financial consequences for the PRC. Given the economic and demographic problems facing the PRC, a repudiation of their sovereign debt or any action that may convey to the market that the PRC's sovereign debt is a "highly speculative foreign asset(s)" would be economic, political, and strategic suicide.
whos courts pre-1938 chinese courts or londons or new york or a modern one. We all know justice comes at the end of a barrel of a gun and all wars are banker wars.
You're right - there is no court with final jurisdiction. "Sovereign" debt. "Sovereign" immunity. The IMF and others have proposed an international arbitration tribunal. Domestic courts of creditors can only do so much. The sovereign debtor can still tell you to suck wind.
Even if the PRC is later found not to be fully liable by some court, the very act of them disputing their liability for a portion of national debt will be sufficient to spook the markets.
Regardless of whether its the US government's job to enforce the bond recovery, its in the US national interest to do so, if concessions can be gained from the PRC in the process even in other areas.
Cycling back to your question about where the acquisition of the debt by the US government was proposed. It's in The Hill piece by Andrew Hale.
"the U.S. government should undertake one or both of two actions currently being discussed by members of Congress.
The first would be to acquire the Chinese bonds held by the ABF and utilize them to offset (partially or in whole) the $850 billion-plus of U.S. Treasurys owned by China."
If a court touched this at all - bear in mind the USG would enter the case on the side of Chinese sovereign immunity- a decision adverse to the Chinese would have no real effect, on the bonds or on the markets.
Found a crazy fact looking into this today - in July 2003 representatives of the ABF went to Iraq and tried to get the Iraqis (then under legal military occupation by the Coalition) to buy the bonds at 20 cents on the dollar (face value?) with the argument that the Iraqis could use them to offset their own debt to China at 100% of value. How they got into Iraq in 2003 when there were no commercial flights and travel was barred is an interesting question. Just another group of the American grifters who were plaguing Baghdad in those days.
They also shopped around their proposal to other countries.
Perhaps you should rewrite your message with a little less implicit hostility and vitriol towards the host's audience. You might get a far more receptive audience.
(And BTW, the smart money is on China killing civilians on Okinawa and Guam in a rather "goon" like fashion. You know, for that runaway province. Just a little reminder from another July 4th runaway province.)
Oki mayor/governor just visited China gravesite. Hawaii has an independence movement. Every bit of the world has its own interests, just bc they are aren't pro-China doesn't mean they won't do things that upset US.
A simpler solution: Deny Chinese access to US Stock market until they pay up (and maybe longer). China uses our stock market as a Piggy Bank from which to buy/build weapons to use against us. That ain't right. They are also stealing us blind (with little consequence) with IP theft and a full blown cyber war.
Great idea. In fact, have a bunch of silver certificates dated 1957. They actually say "payable in silver to the bearer upon demand" or words to that effect. I think our government should give me a sliver dollar for each one of my silver certificates.
I’m starting to see this discussion show up in more places. The Chicomms are using debt as both a carrot and stick all over the world, it’s about time we did the same.
Maybe we should go to countries that have Chicomm financed infrastructure and give them these bonds to use in repayment when the Chicomms move to take control of their infrastructure.
There's some $1T I.O.U. out there? Make the SOB's pay up.
How? You look weak if you make a fuss but can't make Chin repay
Looks like you caught me out in a bit of knee-jerk bluster, Red. I blame the article for getting me spun up because it struck a nerve. I loaned RD3 Englehart $20 in 1970 right before I went to Vietnam. He promised to pay me back. Never happened. Have zero expertise in finance, economics or law and am not a diplomat nor a mob goon who has ever collected the vig on an overdue Mafia loan either. "How", indeed, do we not look weak with the feckless morons this administration would send to play hardball with China? I'll give it a shot: Treat them the same way you would a bad street food vendor or someone who has owed you money since 1938. You wholly admit your weakness by not insisting on payment. If they refuse or waffle, shun them. Find more honorable people to do business with. We could also tell them that any U.S. T-Bills they have, debt we owe them or assets they have sitting here will be swapped for the bonds we hold. If they don't pay up that doesn't make us weak. It makes them thieving SOB's. Let them wear the mantel.
if you have no expertise in finance, economics, law or mafia mob goon tactics then how can you call anyone who does anything to collect a debt a feckless moron? How do you know the proper method to treat someone who is a bad street food vendor or someone who has owed you money since 1938 when you admittedly have no experience or expertise in this area? Best you sit down and STFU Dale.
Let's remember that I did own up to "a bit of knee-jerk bluster". It was a disclaimer, Kuso-jiji. I lack any special expertise, but have some experience and knowledge. Don't think I called anyone a feckless moron. Rather, I implied that the pool of able negotiators on this administration's approved list that they could draw from to deal with China is very small, inept, and indisputably feckless. <---Pretty much sure I nailed that. Have watched plenty of Mafia movies and have seen how they deal with people who stiff them or serve them a muffaletta with ketchup on it. My own style is to try polite feedback. Thank you for yours. (Liked the stylistic e. e. cummings "if". Between STFU and Dale, maybe a comma?) Watashi no namae wa Okani-san desu. Tomodachi ni narou.
You're welcome for my polite feedback. "This administration". Jeez Louise. Your quote: "How", indeed, do we not look weak with the feckless morons this administration would send to play hardball with China?"
Wish we could get past "R" or "D" and just be Americans. Probably too much to wish for since the last administration was just so awesome and this one is filled with feckless morons.
And I could give two poops about being friendly with someone who says the elected officials of my nation are feckless morons. I don't have to agree with either one, but President Trump and President Biden were / are the leaders of this nation. President Trump lost in 2020, but from 2016 to 2020 he was our elected leader and deserved the respect his elected office conveyed. Same with President Biden.
How about you call that worthless commie Xi and the rest of those commie PRC dipsticks feckless morons instead of the leaders of your own country, you feckless moron? How was that comma placement for you?
This is new to me. Nice job, Sal.
Ain't gonna happen. Would be nice though. The CCP know we don't have the fortitude or leverage, unlike the Brits, to make this happen.
They already invested in America's Elite and expect full measure for their payments.
Time to stick it to these commies…just one problem: the ChiComs own our political class, either explicitly or implicitly—and it shows…also, an alarming number of these politicians and leaders sound like communists (AOC and The Squad, BHO, Gavin Newsome, and most of the senate’s current majority leadership).
Don’t hold your breath.
And that ownership starts at the very top. I challenge anyone, whether AOC or Biden, to prove me wrong.
No doubt in the case of every president since Reagan and excluding Trump. Nixon was on the ChiCom payroll, the Clintons (garden variety grifters should have gotten “for sale” signs to wear, and Hillary is a full-throated communist), and probably the Bush family (in the rear view they were a bit too excited about “welcoming” the ChiComs and converting them—not unlike the tripe used to sell Iraq).
Nixon was not on the Chinese payroll, he was desperate to end the war in Vietnam, he considered Duck Hook and Pruning knife along with bombing the Red River dikes as well as others. Reports were that the deaths and destruction would rival that of Cities being bombed in WW2.
He went to China hat in hand and asked them what they wanted if they helped end the Vietnam war. They told him and he complied, North Vietnam resisted so an abbreviated Pruning knife went through in 72/73 Linebacker, Mining the Harbors and rivers. US Navy and Air Force got weapons free to go downtown and bomb.
The PAVN Easter Offensive was destroyed.
Results, End of active US involvement in Vietnam. Then as in Kabul, and soon Ukraine the US simply walked away.
After his resignation, Nixon was effectively broke. The PRC paid Nixon (and the loathsome Kissinger) for speeches and appearances.
After his Resignation is not during the Vietnam war.
He wasn't President anymore, By then the Job was Ford.
As a Private citizen Nixon was allowed to take money as well as Kissinger from anyone who wanted to pay him.
That is not illegal.
Now Nixon was a real self made man and a real live SOB, he was Former Navy and the Navy was very powerful under his administration..
Kissinger was basically a conniving greedy person and an Idiot.
Yes, sir. I am aware of the timeline. Nixon made the practice legitimate, and Kissinger had the stones to be a ChiCom broker…peace
I don't see how you can think that when there is bipartisan support for so many anti-China things going on in politics.
China also does all your manufacturing, so you'd pay even more for goods if stuff was made in USA.
Yeah Biden is real pro-China with export controls. Remember what happned in WW2 when you cut off Japans oil? Pearl Harbour.
Policy is reality, not rhetoric. Many politicians talk about reigning in China, but in reality Biden reversed many of Trump’s initiatives.
Better to rip the bandaid than let this get out of control…which may already be the case.
No Biden did not.
Ban on Hauwei, tarrifs, now more export controls. China policy is very similar under Biden or Trump.
Care to share some examples where there was a reversal?
Like a Truckers cheat sheet. What we see is not the actual Truckers log.
The actual truckers log is hidden under the seat.
WE would have eventually butted heads with Japan, FDR enacted sanctions (the democrats favorite weapon of war) which forced Japan to do something.
Our Government, all parties are hip deep in suspicion.
I fully understand why our political class hasn’t taken action on this. The only reason I can find for the bond holders group to fail to take action is that they are in bed with the politicians.
The bondholders lack clout compared to the S&P 500, everyone who bitches about China but doesn't want to pony up to buy at least Mexican, and the few people who still think China can change.
I would think that the bond holders could go to a U.S. court to demand payment, if they were serious about it.
Sovereign immunity
My thought was that a U.S. court could force the U.S. government to pursue the bond holders’ claim in either an international court or by direct negotiations with the PRC. I realize that it probably seems like I live in la-la land, but it would be very interesting to watch our government squirm around trying to avoid its responsibilities to its citizens. I believe firmly in sunlight as the best disinfectant when it comes to these matters.
See my comment below. Invest in speculative foreign assets, that's on you. US Government has no legal obligation to back up your poor investment choices.
No legal obligation, but special laws are passed by Congress all the time when it is in the interest of either the members or their friends. In this case it is to the benefit of a sovereign United States to support this particular group of claims. I’d be fine with trading bond for bond as a way of eliminating this Chinese weapon.
And when His Majesty's Royal Marines occupy Jackson, Mississippi to uphold a British court demand for repayment of British bondholders, how good will your idea seem?
Ultimately all legal decisions are enforced thru believable threat. We do not fear the Brits, and right now the PRC have no fear of us, whereas I can easily see the U.S. government rolling over and playing dead over the financial debt we own he PRC.
OK, so the court rules in the Bond holders favor, what now if they LOL and say F you?
Gonna sue them? Hold Protests? Sanctions? Enact more tariffs and taxes?
War?
Not going to happen.
Everything would depend on the nature of the court’s ruling. In my mind, the most interesting scenario would be SCOTUS requiring a dollar-for-dollar swap of bonds and the White House refusing to act seriously on the matter. Parties and administrations have been overthrown for lesser reasons.
Ever see that Movie "MARS ATTACKS!" 1996 Where the POTUS Jack Nicholas has a staff who even after the Martians vaporize Congress after saying they want peace still say, after the smoke clears "Well, They did say they come in peace" while looking dreamingly off into the Horizon.
They listen to Chinese officials who mouth the same platitudes The Government wants to hear and disregard the Chinese doing things that relate to war.
Our Government is being willingly led down the garden path to the showers.
Time to show China that when Uncle is serious at it, getting into economic warfare with the US is the like getting into kinetic warfare..... against every military force from Sargon's Palace Guard to today.
This is way too simple and too logical. Uncle Stupid would never do something like this.
A nice opportunity that will likely never happen. In some ways, a kinetic contest could be our financial saviour- if we had the will to actually use it. Seize all Chinese assets. Cancel all debt. Idk if its "legal", but surely theres a bill or Executive Order that would make it so.
Of course all those funds would be needed to rebuild the USN after it gets spanked in WestPac, but I digress...
There are a lot of US assets in China, so thats why this won't happen. Money controls politics in the US lol.
Are there members of Congress that read these posts? Just curious...
Email it to your own and it stands a better chance.
If you owe the bank $1000 you're in trouble, if you owe $1,000,000 the bank's in trouble. Not sure how you're going to declare them in default and seize their assets.
Because there are many banks here. These bonds are held by many creditors. Also, since this claim affects the credit worthiness of the PRC's sovereign debt, it will affect debts held by other nations and future loan interest rates as well.
This is shady as hell. Needs further investigation, smells like astroturfing. Sad to see the unquestioning knee-jerking here.
I bet this is a lobbying effort in behalf of a group of "vulture capitalists" who have bought an interest in these bonds - classic "distressed debt" - for mills on the dollar and now want to enlist the US as their thug collector to make a fantastic return. Note that none of the holders are named in the story, nor does their website list any institutions or names. Most of the "20,000 American citizens" likely have a small interest in funds which hold the bonds. A few have much larger interests. It appears to be similar to the situation of the group of purchasers of defaulted Argentine debt a couple of years ago.
These people want the US Treasury to buy the bonds from them. At what price? Face value? Are they just made whole for the mills on the dollar they likely paid, or do they get a healthy capital gain? Then the USA is going to collect from China? Ridiculous.
The bonds in question were defaulted on because of an act of force majeure - the Japanese invasion of China. Aside from that, the Republic of China was notoriously corrupt per Stilwell and the PRC would be justified in repudiating the debt under "odious debt" principles which have been applied to other successor states in the past, eg Iraq.
Doing what this guy suggests is classic 19th century / 1914 road to war and the USA isn't even ready. We don't need to start WW III now to benefit investors in extremely speculative assets, wanting to make stupendous gains.
You want to invest in highly speculative foreign assets, fine. But don't expect the US government to be your goon / bailout.
The CCP approves your message...good boy.
He's missing the fact that even in that case, as a tool of U.S. policy, greed is good in this instance.
Get real. This is an attempt to get the USG to bail out private investors in risky foreign assets by buying the bonds at an inflated market value. It's wrapped up in anti-China Grand Stratergy on the level of Pinky and The Brain.
The fact that you and others fell for this shilling is discouraging. The March of Folly, as Tuchman put it.
The real current market value of these bonds is negligible. How could they offset any US debt with China without the US blatantly lying about the defaulted debt's real value and further diminishing its credibility?
Any of the other actions would just depress the value of US Treasury offerings and raise real interest rates by destroying faith in US sovereign debt. Do you really want to wreck the dollar?
There would be some kind of Chinese retaliation, like repudiating debt of Chinese companies in US hands, eg Bank of China etc, or closing China to some US products.
Has anyone here ever looked at a debt market? There's a reason why Argentine debt on the market today is offering a yield of 22%
Where was the assumption of all of the credit holding by the US government proposed? This is just a point of leverage in Sino-American negotiations. There is no need for the US to become the sole creditor of these bonds to demand their repayment in exchange for PRC concessions in other areas.
The PRC cannot simply "repudiate" their sovereign debt without massive financial consequences for the PRC. Given the economic and demographic problems facing the PRC, a repudiation of their sovereign debt or any action that may convey to the market that the PRC's sovereign debt is a "highly speculative foreign asset(s)" would be economic, political, and strategic suicide.
You are accepting their premise that the PRC is fully liable for this pre-1938 debt. I do not.
1. Force majeure - lots of wealth was destroyed in WW II.
2. Odious debt - do we know the amount of corruption involved?
Beyond that, it's not the US government's job to bail out, or be the collection agent for investors in risky assets. Why should they be bailed out?
You are accepting their premise that the PRC is fully liable for this pre-1938 debt. I do not.
Guess that'd be a decision for the courts.
whos courts pre-1938 chinese courts or londons or new york or a modern one. We all know justice comes at the end of a barrel of a gun and all wars are banker wars.
Bankers?
Who knew Stalin and Hitler were bankers when Von Ribbentrop and that other banker Molotov got together.
You're right - there is no court with final jurisdiction. "Sovereign" debt. "Sovereign" immunity. The IMF and others have proposed an international arbitration tribunal. Domestic courts of creditors can only do so much. The sovereign debtor can still tell you to suck wind.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/us-supreme-court-rejects-argentinas-appeal-in-debt-case-about-paying-off-holdouts/2014/06/16/cdfcf58e-f56c-11e3-a606-946fd632f9f1_story.html
Even if the PRC is later found not to be fully liable by some court, the very act of them disputing their liability for a portion of national debt will be sufficient to spook the markets.
Regardless of whether its the US government's job to enforce the bond recovery, its in the US national interest to do so, if concessions can be gained from the PRC in the process even in other areas.
Cycling back to your question about where the acquisition of the debt by the US government was proposed. It's in The Hill piece by Andrew Hale.
"the U.S. government should undertake one or both of two actions currently being discussed by members of Congress.
The first would be to acquire the Chinese bonds held by the ABF and utilize them to offset (partially or in whole) the $850 billion-plus of U.S. Treasurys owned by China."
If a court touched this at all - bear in mind the USG would enter the case on the side of Chinese sovereign immunity- a decision adverse to the Chinese would have no real effect, on the bonds or on the markets.
Found a crazy fact looking into this today - in July 2003 representatives of the ABF went to Iraq and tried to get the Iraqis (then under legal military occupation by the Coalition) to buy the bonds at 20 cents on the dollar (face value?) with the argument that the Iraqis could use them to offset their own debt to China at 100% of value. How they got into Iraq in 2003 when there were no commercial flights and travel was barred is an interesting question. Just another group of the American grifters who were plaguing Baghdad in those days.
They also shopped around their proposal to other countries.
http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/intlrel/hfa90360.000/hfa90360_0.HTM#136
Perhaps you should rewrite your message with a little less implicit hostility and vitriol towards the host's audience. You might get a far more receptive audience.
(And BTW, the smart money is on China killing civilians on Okinawa and Guam in a rather "goon" like fashion. You know, for that runaway province. Just a little reminder from another July 4th runaway province.)
Why do you think he cares about a receptive audience? Not here to make friends
Or apparently an argument.
We get it. You don't like China.
I don't like it much either, but this scam is not a reason to repudiate our debt held by them and destroy relations (and the dollar) right now.
Now you are the judge of who I like or dislike?
If you had been fucking paying attention Xi started purging his opponents 11 years ago under the banner of corruption and flies.
All contemporary roads of contention lead back to Xi Jinping.
I dislike Xi, and the other Party Princelings who pine for the power of their
Party founding parents had and are little more than Imperialists who can quote Mao and Marx.
You should read more outside your Progressive bubble.
Perhaps those Pacific islands will secede from US/Japan lol. It's not like Guam is anywhere close to the US mainland.
Or maybe even get closer. China does not have a great reputation with her neighbors.
Oki mayor/governor just visited China gravesite. Hawaii has an independence movement. Every bit of the world has its own interests, just bc they are aren't pro-China doesn't mean they won't do things that upset US.
As we speak? India is aligning with the Philippines. And India is non-aligned.
https://news.usni.org/2023/07/05/india-revises-stance-on-china-philippines-maritime-dispute-as-new-delhi-looks-east
INdia has always had meh relations with China, I'm not suprised Modi said some things to appease the US afte his visit.
There's a saying: "if you want something said, go to India. If you want something done, go to China". Indians will say anything to please you.
Perhaps we set up an “interest garnishment” program for China to receive no interest on US Bonds until their sovereign debt is repaid?
A simpler solution: Deny Chinese access to US Stock market until they pay up (and maybe longer). China uses our stock market as a Piggy Bank from which to buy/build weapons to use against us. That ain't right. They are also stealing us blind (with little consequence) with IP theft and a full blown cyber war.
Why stop there? Threaten to kick the PRC out of the WTO if they fail to repay.
Or maybe repossessed US farmland as a leverage?
So many US assets in China, you don't think your proposal will have repercussions? Its not Russia
Who knows. Guess it depends on US national interests at the time.
Great idea. In fact, have a bunch of silver certificates dated 1957. They actually say "payable in silver to the bearer upon demand" or words to that effect. I think our government should give me a sliver dollar for each one of my silver certificates.
Sounds like the Trump method. When you owe a million you are in trouble. When you owe a million your creditors are in trouble.