I wanna know more about these seemingly ineffective antiship missiles. Are they just crap, or are the Houthis having fuze troubles, like the Argentines and their Exocets? Not complaining, but it seems like a lotta hits for thus far not much payoff.
The article says ballistic missiles not an anti-ship missiles. Which probably explains the ships not being directly hit.
As an aside to the primary reason, Iran is probably using the Houthi's to practice their ballistic missile attacks on ships. Maybe add some terminal guidance of some sort to target the ship? Getting improved rocket guidance from China?
Is the Chinese force in the area assisting these attacks by working through Iran? I think making oil and shipping more expense would be bad for China who is under economic strain at the moment, but perhaps they have something else they want to pursue?
They have course and heading via AIS. They could just do the math and try and hit the spot they think it will be at when their ballistic round lands. Poor man's anti-ship ballistic missile.
The Galaxy Explorer turned off her AIS northeast of Jedda, a full day and a 100 plus nm north from where she was boarded. Granted, the silhouette of car carrier is mighty easy to spot.
But the Unity Explorer, a much more generic and easy to blend in bulker, turned hers off at the southern end of the southern end of the Guif of Suez, so 2 days and hundreds of miles north of where she was engaged.
So while AIS tracking may have provided some tracking info, its pretty obvious there is more than looking at MarineTraffic.com to determine their positions.
The Number 9 though was northbound and had her AIS on apparently up to the time she was engaged.
Even still what is the CEP of the missiles they are using, a good scope and range finder may make a shotgun more effective but at range you might get lucky.
• Falq missile: a land-sea ballistic missile, capable of capturing targets visually and thermally, with a range of 140 km, the weight of the explosive warhead is 105 kg, and runs on solid fuel.
• Tankeel: A surface-to-surface and surface-to-sea ballistic missile system, powered by solid fuel, with a medium range. There are two versions, one is surface-to-surface and the other is surface-to-sea.”
CDR - Another piece to the puzzle, from National Review today: "Why is it that only the Carney is doing the work? I couldn’t say. The venerable destroyer is part of the Gerald R. Ford Carrier Strike Group, so presumably, other hulls are nearby. However, after a quick search, most of the strike group is visiting Souda Bay, Greece, catching some rays and chilling on the beach, while the Carney sweats it out dodging missiles in the waters between Yemen and Somalia."
The one time we came off Bagel Station was for a quick three day port visit to fix some critical but unnamed casualty that required contractor/OEM level support.
My thought on this (and I admit to having been an ED with only one initial sea tour) is why one ship is operating alone, particularly a FLT I/II DDG that cannot embark a helo. Pairing a LCS with the DDG in this littoral environment might actually be a useful employment these ships. They could carry two helos or a helo and multiple Fire Scouts to supplement the capabilities of the DDG.
This is merely the newest iteration of the "Barbary pirates" and with the same motivations, and we should treat them much as we did 200 years ago; wipe out the pirates, and their bases, and sink their ships. This would have been the proper role for the old Iowa class battleships but there's nothing available like them now.
Purged during the Obama era, where only woke left-wing officers like Milley were promoted. We need to fire or retire every GOFO and rebuild the military from the O5/O6 ranks.
Milley groveled for having marched to a burning church, felt guilty about his White privilege and conspired with the Red Chinese against the President of the United States. I am surprised Omar Bradley didn't get up and out of his grave to smack Milley.
Add: Congress needs to return to the policy of actually holding hearings on the promotions of flag-level officers. Not merely rubber-stamping the process. The Grand Inquest of the Republic needs to do some inquiring.
For the Navy...rebuild from the 05/06 ranks, CWO's, Bosun's, and anyone who likes (and wants) to wield a cutlass or a pike. Task the JAG and SC types to find a way for prize money and other motivational bonuses.
Let’s bring the NJ & WI out of mothballs and rain 16 Inch shells down on them. Night time fires would light up the Red Sea and remind these anti civilization dbags who we are.
Full concur on the need to establish a tender capability for DDs and such. Even if we can't restock VLS underway, an ability to do so alongside at anchor would be a vast improvement over having to return to specific ports of supply. VLS is the original mission/payload module. Let's start acting like it.
Politically, it continues to astonish me that Americans are held hostage, after other Americans were slaughtered and abused, and the White House has been virtually silent on the issue, indeed, all but siding with the offenders.
And as a part of this larger war, our White House considers this campaign against freedom of navigation and shipping, as well as routine attacks on US warships by a known proxy, to just be a day ending in 'y.'
All this happening, while the administration pursues Iran as a 'partner' in some supposed peace process for the larger region.
It simply boggles the mind.
Back to the point- BZ Carney for some exceptional performance, and the fleet and institutional Navy needs to sit down every member of that crew and debrief them for lessons learned.
Bob Hope-class ships are MASSIVE ships, 951 feet and 62,000 tons...wonder if the current John Lewis-class oilers can be reconfigured into ammunition ships since its a hot production line?
"On 29 December 1941 and 1 January 1942, she received direct bomb hits which resulted in substantial damage to the ship and injuries to 13 of her men. Working at fevered pace, her men continued to care for other ships while keeping their own afloat and in operation. To prevent further Japanese attack, smoke pots were placed around the ship and the appearance of an abandoned hulk was presented by day, while the ship hummed with activity by night"
"our National Security Advisor had about as much of a 180-degree lockoff from a proper assessment of the situation as can be. From Kabul to Gaza, generations of national security professionals will study NSA Sullivan’s serial incompetence, and leadership professionals will try to understand the complete lack of accountability from his boss.
Edit: Please update to include the Houthi and Iran. Are they going to send another check and beg them not do anything else?
Are they taking out the missiles/drones with gunfire or missiles?
Next UNREP available date will be ???
Why do we not have a second DDG/CG on station instead of depending on one ship "in peacetime" having to be on watch 24/7? (Yeah, I know the answer- we don't have enough ships. Isn't this close to shore stuff- and if so then we should send ever LCS there to at least be a missile sponge or try to hit something with their 6 pounder pop-gun or tiny missiles.)
The U.S. must NOT be the sole guarantor of freedom of navigation, or suppression of piratical activity. Yes, the launch sites and weapons stores must be eliminated with extreme prejudice. But, as a combined operation, preferably with middle eastern partners who damn well should have some very real concerns about freedom of navigation and piracy. And striking those sites must not be followed up with ANY attempt at "nation building" or a single dollar for relief or rebuilding. Collateral damage will happen and it will be the sole fault of the Houthis and their puppetmasters.
CG??? That's cute. 27 Ticos built, 14 decommed, and another 4 on the block for next year. The Phip Sea is somewhere in Ike's inner ring, probably visible from the flight deck. There's not a spare second.
"Why do we not have a second DDG/CG on station instead of depending on one ship "in peacetime" having to be on watch 24/7?"
Clearly you've not been paying attention, not only has Carney been swatting away missiles and drones, its sister destroyers Thomas Hudner and Mason have also had their turn getting in on the action as well. Each ship along with the other nations in TF151 & 153 has their box to patrol, Carney clearly has the hot box....would be nice to hear some other nations getting in on the action though, as they're the benefactors of the security blanket we provide.
It is a mighty big box and their ships are so small. The combined length of the Red Sea and Gulf of Aden is over 2000 nautical miles. The SM2 effective radius is about 100 nm and the 5"/54 Mod 4 is about a fifth of that? Still, kudos to the intel that is putting the three of them in the right place at the right time. We will see how long it holds up and how quickly the enemy can learn and adapt.
Yemen is either complicit with the Houthis, or is not in control of their territory...Either way, a US Naval Ship is an act of war: Every time a missile is launched we should respond - with a TLAM, a B52 bomb box, whatever..
Let Yemen gain control, or get a government that will.
Much of Yemen's population is controlled by the Houthis, aka Iran. Another large chunk is run by another breakaway faction, the southern transitional council, supported by UAE. The government of Yemen you refer to, aka the internationally recognized government, aka the government in exile, lives in Saudi Arabia. They apparently control one major population center in Yemen, the town of Marib. Plus a whole lot of desert.
"Effective February 16, I am revoking the designations of Ansarallah, sometimes referred to as the Houthis, as a Foreign Terrorist Organization (FTO) under the Immigration and Nationality Act and as a Specially Designated Global Terrorist (SDGT) pursuant to Executive Order (E.O.) 13224, as amended."
I was wondering what will be opening salvo of 2024, and this topic seems like a good candidate.… I swear, we live in a strange world. Every single year since 2020 started with a bang, and I don’t expect 2024 to be different.
Well, the Brits ain't "the dread and envy of them all" anymore. Looks like Uncle is going to have to "democratize" Venezuela if they invade their neighbor.
Venezuel/Guyana; China/Philippines; Houthis; Israel/HAMAS and Hezbollah; - so many possibilities for the West to be hit sideways and then there are all those immigrants - young men of military age who do not believe in diversity.
What hulls do we have to convert/build/modify to make a decent Destroyer Tender? Bigger problem I see is where are you going to get a crew for these new tenders? You could strip the pentagon but I doubt ADMs will make good sailors.
Bigger question is where are good ports in the area to do a reload? Jeddah, Elat, Djibouti, Bahrain, ... ?
* Current hot production line for large hull auxiliary is the John Lewis-class oiler.
* The LPD-17 Flt-II production line is also running, create a AD-version using this hull form. Keep its engineering as is, but, convert all that cargo and vehicle spaces for stores, materials and workshops. Eliminiating the ballast tanks and pumps should also open-up additional space.
* Convert those LSD-41 ships that are due to be retired and repurpose them. While their seakeeping capability has been criticized, the tender's role is inherently always in-port and rarely at-sea.
* The new AS(X) program is nearly baked and steel is supposed to start cutting next year, use this same hull form for the new AD class.
News flash an oiler hull is not suitable to build a tender off of. Tender are multi-comparmented vessels with are laterally framed IOW the opposite of an oiler
Smallish heavy lift ship? Pull the DD out of the water, then it is moving with the tender. In theory that should allow easier synch of cranes etc. This is probably a terrible idea for reasons I don't understand.
There are smaller heavy lift ships but there are NOT smaller DDG etc. A semi-submersible could do the job, but the Navy sees no wisdom to that. Note the T-ESDs can be put back to there semi-submersible condition to be a full Flo/Flo ship
I’m trying to post the classic Seabee photo. “The difficult we do immediately. . . “
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/The_Seabee_expression.jpg
"Miracles by appointment only."
I wanna know more about these seemingly ineffective antiship missiles. Are they just crap, or are the Houthis having fuze troubles, like the Argentines and their Exocets? Not complaining, but it seems like a lotta hits for thus far not much payoff.
The article says ballistic missiles not an anti-ship missiles. Which probably explains the ships not being directly hit.
As an aside to the primary reason, Iran is probably using the Houthi's to practice their ballistic missile attacks on ships. Maybe add some terminal guidance of some sort to target the ship? Getting improved rocket guidance from China?
Is the Chinese force in the area assisting these attacks by working through Iran? I think making oil and shipping more expense would be bad for China who is under economic strain at the moment, but perhaps they have something else they want to pursue?
They have course and heading via AIS. They could just do the math and try and hit the spot they think it will be at when their ballistic round lands. Poor man's anti-ship ballistic missile.
"They have course and heading via AIS."
The Galaxy Explorer turned off her AIS northeast of Jedda, a full day and a 100 plus nm north from where she was boarded. Granted, the silhouette of car carrier is mighty easy to spot.
But the Unity Explorer, a much more generic and easy to blend in bulker, turned hers off at the southern end of the southern end of the Guif of Suez, so 2 days and hundreds of miles north of where she was engaged.
So while AIS tracking may have provided some tracking info, its pretty obvious there is more than looking at MarineTraffic.com to determine their positions.
The Number 9 though was northbound and had her AIS on apparently up to the time she was engaged.
Even still what is the CEP of the missiles they are using, a good scope and range finder may make a shotgun more effective but at range you might get lucky.
A Houthi propaganda piece mentions these (Among others) and they were reported also by western observers of their parade.
https://www.saba.ye/en/news3266848.htm
• Falq missile: a land-sea ballistic missile, capable of capturing targets visually and thermally, with a range of 140 km, the weight of the explosive warhead is 105 kg, and runs on solid fuel.
• Tankeel: A surface-to-surface and surface-to-sea ballistic missile system, powered by solid fuel, with a medium range. There are two versions, one is surface-to-surface and the other is surface-to-sea.”
Large CEP not guided possibly SCUDS of some type.
CDR - Another piece to the puzzle, from National Review today: "Why is it that only the Carney is doing the work? I couldn’t say. The venerable destroyer is part of the Gerald R. Ford Carrier Strike Group, so presumably, other hulls are nearby. However, after a quick search, most of the strike group is visiting Souda Bay, Greece, catching some rays and chilling on the beach, while the Carney sweats it out dodging missiles in the waters between Yemen and Somalia."
The USS Mason has been involved as well and responded to piracy about a week ago:
https://news.usni.org/2023/11/28/houthi-missile-likely-did-not-target-uss-mason-m-v-central-park-dod-says
The one time we came off Bagel Station was for a quick three day port visit to fix some critical but unnamed casualty that required contractor/OEM level support.
Bagel station?
Lebanon early to mid 80's.
My thought on this (and I admit to having been an ED with only one initial sea tour) is why one ship is operating alone, particularly a FLT I/II DDG that cannot embark a helo. Pairing a LCS with the DDG in this littoral environment might actually be a useful employment these ships. They could carry two helos or a helo and multiple Fire Scouts to supplement the capabilities of the DDG.
Time for the Carney to go off station, and sink anything with an Iranian flag.
Capture pirates and hang them?
This is merely the newest iteration of the "Barbary pirates" and with the same motivations, and we should treat them much as we did 200 years ago; wipe out the pirates, and their bases, and sink their ships. This would have been the proper role for the old Iowa class battleships but there's nothing available like them now.
Where is our Decatur of the day?
Purged during the Obama era, where only woke left-wing officers like Milley were promoted. We need to fire or retire every GOFO and rebuild the military from the O5/O6 ranks.
Admiral Gilday bragged about reading Karl Marx.
Studying the ways of our adversary. Goddamned right.
I wish that were so. I think he bought the part about class warfare.
Adversary? He’s a role model for today’s Democrats.
Milley groveled for having marched to a burning church, felt guilty about his White privilege and conspired with the Red Chinese against the President of the United States. I am surprised Omar Bradley didn't get up and out of his grave to smack Milley.
I'm becoming more and more convinced that may be the only option.
Add: Congress needs to return to the policy of actually holding hearings on the promotions of flag-level officers. Not merely rubber-stamping the process. The Grand Inquest of the Republic needs to do some inquiring.
That is good constructive criticism.
Certainly the entrenched "Army(sic) of Northern Virginia" in the Pentagon!
We have more generals than we have divisions, and more admirals than ships. The military is WAY TOO top-heavy.
For the Navy...rebuild from the 05/06 ranks, CWO's, Bosun's, and anyone who likes (and wants) to wield a cutlass or a pike. Task the JAG and SC types to find a way for prize money and other motivational bonuses.
Decatur would never make it past O3 in today's Navy.
Pete: Sad to say I agree!
Decatur would have received a mediocre FITREP just for using the wrong pronouns.
Let’s bring the NJ & WI out of mothballs and rain 16 Inch shells down on them. Night time fires would light up the Red Sea and remind these anti civilization dbags who we are.
Nah, 5" and land-attack missiles will suffice.
And sinking everything that floats out of a Houthi port.
George Bush wasn't right very often, but he was spot on when he declined to use a million dollar missile to destroy a $25 tent.
Alas, none of the Iowa class battleships are in mothballs; each is now a museum ship, and it would be costly and expensive to recommission them.
Plus, we don't have the skilled sailors for operating the 16"/50 and 5"/38 as needed.
Full concur on the need to establish a tender capability for DDs and such. Even if we can't restock VLS underway, an ability to do so alongside at anchor would be a vast improvement over having to return to specific ports of supply. VLS is the original mission/payload module. Let's start acting like it.
Politically, it continues to astonish me that Americans are held hostage, after other Americans were slaughtered and abused, and the White House has been virtually silent on the issue, indeed, all but siding with the offenders.
And as a part of this larger war, our White House considers this campaign against freedom of navigation and shipping, as well as routine attacks on US warships by a known proxy, to just be a day ending in 'y.'
All this happening, while the administration pursues Iran as a 'partner' in some supposed peace process for the larger region.
It simply boggles the mind.
Back to the point- BZ Carney for some exceptional performance, and the fleet and institutional Navy needs to sit down every member of that crew and debrief them for lessons learned.
Perhaps VLS resupply could be part of the Puller-class mission set?
That thought had crossed my mind. But there's a shortage of hulls, and ideally, they're busy doing something else.
The enemy always gets a vote. In this case, the enemy reads Sun T’zu before he votes.
Recommission Bob Hope and do this-
https://2n.mit.edu/sites/default/files/documents/ROVR.pdf
I like it, I like it a LOT.
Bob Hope-class ships are MASSIVE ships, 951 feet and 62,000 tons...wonder if the current John Lewis-class oilers can be reconfigured into ammunition ships since its a hot production line?
Sure, expect delivery in 2030.
The third Obama term is far more friendly to Iran than Israel, or the US for that matter.
Only four DD tenders? How about four per numbered fleet?
Yes, I'll wake up any time now.
Not only do we need the tenders, but they need to have robust self-defense capabilities.
Aww...C'mon Man!
No tender is ever gonna be in Harm's Way!
(oh, wait)
http://www.usscanopus.org/history_AS-9.htm
http://www.usscanopus.org/History/Old%20Canopus%20painting.jpg
"On 29 December 1941 and 1 January 1942, she received direct bomb hits which resulted in substantial damage to the ship and injuries to 13 of her men. Working at fevered pace, her men continued to care for other ships while keeping their own afloat and in operation. To prevent further Japanese attack, smoke pots were placed around the ship and the appearance of an abandoned hulk was presented by day, while the ship hummed with activity by night"
The captain will have a stainless steel 12 gauge shotgun, locked in a vault requiring three officers to access...
After all, our new frigates will have tiny little guns too....
This is getting old...one one state declares WAR on another state its
many things..."piracy" not so much.
USN seizing Iranian ships without declaration of war....looks and smells like pirates .
"our National Security Advisor had about as much of a 180-degree lockoff from a proper assessment of the situation as can be. From Kabul to Gaza, generations of national security professionals will study NSA Sullivan’s serial incompetence, and leadership professionals will try to understand the complete lack of accountability from his boss.
Edit: Please update to include the Houthi and Iran. Are they going to send another check and beg them not do anything else?
He's a total twerp.
Even a twerp can be smart and make the right decisions on occasion.
Serial incompetence combined with arrogance? That's a special talent.
Yep. Another BHO holdover.
BZ to CARNEY and crew.
Are they taking out the missiles/drones with gunfire or missiles?
Next UNREP available date will be ???
Why do we not have a second DDG/CG on station instead of depending on one ship "in peacetime" having to be on watch 24/7? (Yeah, I know the answer- we don't have enough ships. Isn't this close to shore stuff- and if so then we should send ever LCS there to at least be a missile sponge or try to hit something with their 6 pounder pop-gun or tiny missiles.)
The U.S. must NOT be the sole guarantor of freedom of navigation, or suppression of piratical activity. Yes, the launch sites and weapons stores must be eliminated with extreme prejudice. But, as a combined operation, preferably with middle eastern partners who damn well should have some very real concerns about freedom of navigation and piracy. And striking those sites must not be followed up with ANY attempt at "nation building" or a single dollar for relief or rebuilding. Collateral damage will happen and it will be the sole fault of the Houthis and their puppetmasters.
CG??? That's cute. 27 Ticos built, 14 decommed, and another 4 on the block for next year. The Phip Sea is somewhere in Ike's inner ring, probably visible from the flight deck. There's not a spare second.
"Why do we not have a second DDG/CG on station instead of depending on one ship "in peacetime" having to be on watch 24/7?"
Clearly you've not been paying attention, not only has Carney been swatting away missiles and drones, its sister destroyers Thomas Hudner and Mason have also had their turn getting in on the action as well. Each ship along with the other nations in TF151 & 153 has their box to patrol, Carney clearly has the hot box....would be nice to hear some other nations getting in on the action though, as they're the benefactors of the security blanket we provide.
It is a mighty big box and their ships are so small. The combined length of the Red Sea and Gulf of Aden is over 2000 nautical miles. The SM2 effective radius is about 100 nm and the 5"/54 Mod 4 is about a fifth of that? Still, kudos to the intel that is putting the three of them in the right place at the right time. We will see how long it holds up and how quickly the enemy can learn and adapt.
Yemen is either complicit with the Houthis, or is not in control of their territory...Either way, a US Naval Ship is an act of war: Every time a missile is launched we should respond - with a TLAM, a B52 bomb box, whatever..
Let Yemen gain control, or get a government that will.
Much of Yemen's population is controlled by the Houthis, aka Iran. Another large chunk is run by another breakaway faction, the southern transitional council, supported by UAE. The government of Yemen you refer to, aka the internationally recognized government, aka the government in exile, lives in Saudi Arabia. They apparently control one major population center in Yemen, the town of Marib. Plus a whole lot of desert.
Which changes nothing....the government in exile is powerless, Iran is shooting at us, and the UAE is duplicitous.
Well, Biden loves the Houthis. So bet on more empty threats from the Biden admin, possibly with some explosions in empty buildings.
https://www.state.gov/revocation-of-the-terrorist-designations-of-ansarallah/
"Effective February 16, I am revoking the designations of Ansarallah, sometimes referred to as the Houthis, as a Foreign Terrorist Organization (FTO) under the Immigration and Nationality Act and as a Specially Designated Global Terrorist (SDGT) pursuant to Executive Order (E.O.) 13224, as amended."
One more charge for the impeachment
Yemin IS the Houthis. They overran he old govt long ago.
Then like I said, glass them
I was wondering what will be opening salvo of 2024, and this topic seems like a good candidate.… I swear, we live in a strange world. Every single year since 2020 started with a bang, and I don’t expect 2024 to be different.
For the record, Guyana. Venezuela will invade, trying to grab about 60% of their territory. Which happens to have both oil and diamonds, apparently.
Guyana (Formerly British Guyana) is the Brits AOR.....
What's King Chuckles going to do about it?
Tell the Venezuelans not to build any oil-fired power plants in Guyana, OR ELSE.
Well, the Brits ain't "the dread and envy of them all" anymore. Looks like Uncle is going to have to "democratize" Venezuela if they invade their neighbor.
Linebacker III time!
The poor king has to spend an hour each weak listening to the lies and excuses of his prime minister.
Is it wrong that I read that as "King Cuckles" at first?
Works for me
Venezuel/Guyana; China/Philippines; Houthis; Israel/HAMAS and Hezbollah; - so many possibilities for the West to be hit sideways and then there are all those immigrants - young men of military age who do not believe in diversity.
"Make an example of the Houthi. Destroy their capabilities. Embargo their coastline." Amen
Our responses to these and other attacks (Syria)is not encouraging.
Glass the desert over
Nice, crisp synopsis and analysis. Concur completely. Would that we could install you as Commander of the Fifth Fleet.
What hulls do we have to convert/build/modify to make a decent Destroyer Tender? Bigger problem I see is where are you going to get a crew for these new tenders? You could strip the pentagon but I doubt ADMs will make good sailors.
Bigger question is where are good ports in the area to do a reload? Jeddah, Elat, Djibouti, Bahrain, ... ?
Several options:
* Current hot production line for large hull auxiliary is the John Lewis-class oiler.
* The LPD-17 Flt-II production line is also running, create a AD-version using this hull form. Keep its engineering as is, but, convert all that cargo and vehicle spaces for stores, materials and workshops. Eliminiating the ballast tanks and pumps should also open-up additional space.
* Convert those LSD-41 ships that are due to be retired and repurpose them. While their seakeeping capability has been criticized, the tender's role is inherently always in-port and rarely at-sea.
* The new AS(X) program is nearly baked and steel is supposed to start cutting next year, use this same hull form for the new AD class.
News flash an oiler hull is not suitable to build a tender off of. Tender are multi-comparmented vessels with are laterally framed IOW the opposite of an oiler
Why on would anyone attempt to convert a billion buck amphib into a tender? Rule one Pick the Right Type Ship First
Smallish heavy lift ship? Pull the DD out of the water, then it is moving with the tender. In theory that should allow easier synch of cranes etc. This is probably a terrible idea for reasons I don't understand.
There are smaller heavy lift ships but there are NOT smaller DDG etc. A semi-submersible could do the job, but the Navy sees no wisdom to that. Note the T-ESDs can be put back to there semi-submersible condition to be a full Flo/Flo ship
Answer is None. the USN is no longer interested in having ADs. Go look at he AS(X) see how much and how longer tenders take to get into service