My son was a graduate of the USAFA, Class of 2000. After a 22 year career driving airplanes (and not much else, due to operational tempo) he retired as an O-5, and got a PhD in History.
He now teaches history at a solid mid-level college and frankly, he is not encouraged. He's in it for the money, and the occasional (1-2 students a year) he can positively influence.
Millet and Murray were on extended leave, I came there is study under Guilmartin, And I kept in touch with John until his death.
Geoffrey Parker actually joined the faculty a year or two after I started but he wasn't actually on campus- but I have huge respect for him as a historian
Fair enough then. Great scholars all. Gillmartin passed way to young and is missed in the military history community. Few Air Force officers ever wrote on row galleys. I could not get into OSU when I started my MA/PhD in history so went to OU just to SE down Route 50, where a robust military history program flourishes.
Same thing happened to me around the same time at a different school. In hindsight I likely dodged a bullet, numbers are real bad around tenure track teaching in the humanities at the moment. And tech paid a lot better.
My buddy Marty Morgan, known to many from his appearances on the History Channel, finally got his PhD there a few years ago after years of putting it off.
Funny you should mention this, today of all days. A friend of mine is a military historian, and a damn good one. So of course the USAF Catch 22ed him into unemployment thanks to different people telling him different things and him picking the wrong faction for guidance.
Because he could not do the impossible, he failed his review.
And based on what he told me, it's not even that the wrong people will be teaching these classes, but that the right candidate doesn't exist so no one will be teaching them.
He who controls the present, controls the past...he who controls the past, controls the future. Or something like that. Stalin or one of the other prominent Marxist / Communist / Gramsci proponents / practioners. All part of taking control of the schools, molding the younger generations minds, and we are seeing the fruits of that labor right before our very eyes. Personnel is policy, and boy do we see that in the Dept of Education!
Our education system as a whole is broken. It's not just history, or even military history, but the entire concept of our education programs. I understand there was a time when "how to think and reason" was point of education, but it's not something I've ever seen in the public school system as a whole. I was lucky enough that I did have a couple of teachers that incorporated it, but not many. My sixth grade teacher was a Korean War vet, who taught us a lot of stuff in ways that my other elementary teachers. I also had a history teacher in high school (Viet Nam Vet) and a physics/chemistry teacher in high school that taught us things like reasoning and logic. Those were also my favorite classes, I wonder why?
Kamas716: Back around 1970, my 4th grade teacher had us all convinced he was some kind of spy or war hero in the Pacific, regaling us with stories of submarines and fighting the "Japs." He had an accurate reputation for being th hardest teacher, requiring 10-page book reports every month. Memorably, he taught the physiology of peristalsis (i.e., the wave-like muscle action of swallowing) by holding one of our smaller classmates upside down by the ankles while our classmate swallowed M&Ms. We could see the M&Ms going "up" our classmate's throat, toward his stomach.
Ming: We were just 4th graders, thus, too young to have known for sure, or to have thought to ask, but, given his likely age at the time, I suspect he did serve in the Pacific, but he was a good story teller, too.
“Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past.”
George Orwell
Sorry for the earlier misquote.
Teach the version of history you want to mold the next generation(s) minds, and you can influence the direction (and fate) of a nation. See the UK, US, etc. Personnel is policy, see the Department of Education leadership, teachers of the year, etc. and you wonder no longer why younger folks detest their country, think it invented slavery, and is the worst place on earth to live...recruitment in the military is not going to improve, methinks.
Me : ".......as I grew, I had a unique set of heroes that I chose to emulate. Instead of the usual sports figures or some such that other boys follow; my psychic mentors were all warriors. At first, Native American; Geronimo, Crazy Horse, Blackhawk. All stoic, fiercely independent, stealthy and deadly.
“As a youth and young man, the people that I admired most were similar; but historic warriors with great tactical grasp; Hannibal Barca, Sun Tzu, Saladin...."
During WWII, the serious members of academe joined the military or worked in defense industries... They left the running of the universities to the ... less serious.
After the war, the universities expanded greatly, thanks to the GI Bill....Suddenly, lots of new students, needing new professors, new buildings, etc. All selected by the ... less serious.
They held for another decade or two, and started retiring in the 60's. Their replacements? The .... very less serious. That got us tolerance, if not outright acceptance and approval, of college 'students' demonstrating on campus, demanding their 'rights'.
College students, by definition, are ignorant (uneducated). That is the reason, in fact, they are at college, no? Listening to their 'demands' is irrational - like a toddler demanding ice cream for breakfast.
But, that's what we have been reduced to. Colleges are just kindergarten for grown ups - both the students and staff.
Here's a course description from the Hamilton Center: "Learning to Disagree: The Surprising Path to Navigating Differences with Empathy and Respect." I guess they don't cover Napolean, Grant and Patton.
Non sequitir. The word "empathy" did not come into being until created by early 20th century psychology. The 19th century definition of "respect" is different that the 21st century definition. I have a healthy 19th century respect for the rattlesnakes in my woods, and a complete lack of empathy should one pose a threat. By definition, it is impossible for anyone to empathize with a rattlesnake.
The problem with "empathy" is it no longer refers to the actual concept. It has been degraded by psychology's overwhelming, dreadful feminization. It no longer means vicarious introspection (trying to think the way someone else does) but emotional identification with someone else.
CDR Sal, you gave away the answer in the picture when you described the problem.
The solution to the problem in learning from military history is reading the Great Books. Thucydides, Xenophon, Machiavelli, Sun Tzu, Clausewitz, Mahan, Corbett, etc. I would add Churchill's multivolume The World Crisis and The Second World War, too.
Your library looks a lot like mine.
Not light reading. You might also want to have Will Durant's eleven volume Story of Civilization to understand the particular time frames.
I guarantee the effort will be worthwhile. I was rereading Mahan* and realized he is not all about battleships. He has a lot to say about commercial shipping and an industrial base, too.
* I do think Mahan was very unfair to Lady Hamilton in his biography of Nelson.
I would respectfully disagree Sal. The US Military History community has been growing again in recent years, and while not back to the glory days of the 1960's and early 1970's, it is much more robust than in the past. Other critiques of many universities with land acknowledgement crap, DEI and other stuff not related to actual academic research and writing are valid.
I agree that some are indeed silly. The ones I have worked with who examine aspects of 20th century Navy and Marine Corps history are pretty good. I can only speak for those. I agree the problem is the wider impression of some parts of the academy.
Right on. As a (very amateur) history type, I'm afraid I must agree. I did insist on (and drill) my grandchildren in history when they visited. They sure weren't getting it in school. One minor quibble--why no naval history book in the picture?
I have an MA in Military History from Norwich, and while what I learned was and has been useful in my military career, looking at retirement and civilian work, it's a lot, lot less promising. Time for a complete change.
My graduate degree in history is from a mid-tier state university. I did it for my own enjoyment, after military retirement, not at all interested in academic employment. My advisor/mentor was an Army draftee right out of high school, who served in post-WWII Germany, and used the GI Bill to become a history prof. After the first semester, he told me straight out - you will never receive a grade higher than B, because you vote the wrong way (He was a liberal, I am not). We became very close over the next 3 years, he introduced me to historiography, cliometrics, and oral history. He cautioned me especially about oral history - eyewitness accounts are often inaccurate. He shepherded me through the program, edited my work, and assembled my review committee. They all signed off, and I graduated with a perfect B average. For as long as he lived, I assured him, "John, I would rather earn a B with you than an A with anybody else." He might be the last liberal I will ever socialize with (please excuse my ending that sentence with a preposition). His affinity for Irish whiskey and flame grilled beef transcended politics, and I still remember his rationale for being a liberal - he believed that government existed to help people. He died about 20 years ago, Sometimes I wonder what he would think about the world as it is today. Then I remember the real lesson of history - the world is the same as it ever was. The story just repeats.
I came to Ohio State in 1995 to pursue a degree in Mil.Hist., but even then saw the writing on the wall, realized a life in Academia wasn't for me.
Sometimes I regret not staying.
My son was a graduate of the USAFA, Class of 2000. After a 22 year career driving airplanes (and not much else, due to operational tempo) he retired as an O-5, and got a PhD in History.
He now teaches history at a solid mid-level college and frankly, he is not encouraged. He's in it for the money, and the occasional (1-2 students a year) he can positively influence.
That was back when Allan Millett, Whit Murray, John Gillmartin and Geoff Parker were on staff. You did not find them engaging?
Millet and Murray were on extended leave, I came there is study under Guilmartin, And I kept in touch with John until his death.
Geoffrey Parker actually joined the faculty a year or two after I started but he wasn't actually on campus- but I have huge respect for him as a historian
Fair enough then. Great scholars all. Gillmartin passed way to young and is missed in the military history community. Few Air Force officers ever wrote on row galleys. I could not get into OSU when I started my MA/PhD in history so went to OU just to SE down Route 50, where a robust military history program flourishes.
Ref. A: https://etd.auburn.edu/handle/10415/8016
You can research where the PhD works now.
Not someone I have worked with in her current position.
Same thing happened to me around the same time at a different school. In hindsight I likely dodged a bullet, numbers are real bad around tenure track teaching in the humanities at the moment. And tech paid a lot better.
The University of Southern Mississippi has an excellent military history program that hasn't been co-opted by the nuttery of the lunatic Left.
My buddy Marty Morgan, known to many from his appearances on the History Channel, finally got his PhD there a few years ago after years of putting it off.
Funny you should mention this, today of all days. A friend of mine is a military historian, and a damn good one. So of course the USAF Catch 22ed him into unemployment thanks to different people telling him different things and him picking the wrong faction for guidance.
Because he could not do the impossible, he failed his review.
And based on what he told me, it's not even that the wrong people will be teaching these classes, but that the right candidate doesn't exist so no one will be teaching them.
He who controls the present, controls the past...he who controls the past, controls the future. Or something like that. Stalin or one of the other prominent Marxist / Communist / Gramsci proponents / practioners. All part of taking control of the schools, molding the younger generations minds, and we are seeing the fruits of that labor right before our very eyes. Personnel is policy, and boy do we see that in the Dept of Education!
Orwell 1984:
Who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past
Our education system as a whole is broken. It's not just history, or even military history, but the entire concept of our education programs. I understand there was a time when "how to think and reason" was point of education, but it's not something I've ever seen in the public school system as a whole. I was lucky enough that I did have a couple of teachers that incorporated it, but not many. My sixth grade teacher was a Korean War vet, who taught us a lot of stuff in ways that my other elementary teachers. I also had a history teacher in high school (Viet Nam Vet) and a physics/chemistry teacher in high school that taught us things like reasoning and logic. Those were also my favorite classes, I wonder why?
Kamas716: Back around 1970, my 4th grade teacher had us all convinced he was some kind of spy or war hero in the Pacific, regaling us with stories of submarines and fighting the "Japs." He had an accurate reputation for being th hardest teacher, requiring 10-page book reports every month. Memorably, he taught the physiology of peristalsis (i.e., the wave-like muscle action of swallowing) by holding one of our smaller classmates upside down by the ankles while our classmate swallowed M&Ms. We could see the M&Ms going "up" our classmate's throat, toward his stomach.
"had us all convinced he was some kind of spy or war hero in the Pacific" - but he wasn't?
Ming: We were just 4th graders, thus, too young to have known for sure, or to have thought to ask, but, given his likely age at the time, I suspect he did serve in the Pacific, but he was a good story teller, too.
Logic was invented by Aristotle. He was canceled.
“Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past.”
George Orwell
Sorry for the earlier misquote.
Teach the version of history you want to mold the next generation(s) minds, and you can influence the direction (and fate) of a nation. See the UK, US, etc. Personnel is policy, see the Department of Education leadership, teachers of the year, etc. and you wonder no longer why younger folks detest their country, think it invented slavery, and is the worst place on earth to live...recruitment in the military is not going to improve, methinks.
Mmmm! thankyou for the Hannibal book there, CDR!
Me : ".......as I grew, I had a unique set of heroes that I chose to emulate. Instead of the usual sports figures or some such that other boys follow; my psychic mentors were all warriors. At first, Native American; Geronimo, Crazy Horse, Blackhawk. All stoic, fiercely independent, stealthy and deadly.
“As a youth and young man, the people that I admired most were similar; but historic warriors with great tactical grasp; Hannibal Barca, Sun Tzu, Saladin...."
During WWII, the serious members of academe joined the military or worked in defense industries... They left the running of the universities to the ... less serious.
After the war, the universities expanded greatly, thanks to the GI Bill....Suddenly, lots of new students, needing new professors, new buildings, etc. All selected by the ... less serious.
They held for another decade or two, and started retiring in the 60's. Their replacements? The .... very less serious. That got us tolerance, if not outright acceptance and approval, of college 'students' demonstrating on campus, demanding their 'rights'.
College students, by definition, are ignorant (uneducated). That is the reason, in fact, they are at college, no? Listening to their 'demands' is irrational - like a toddler demanding ice cream for breakfast.
But, that's what we have been reduced to. Colleges are just kindergarten for grown ups - both the students and staff.
agree, though anti-war draft dodger grad students/faculty belongs in there
second-generation non-serious commies
Here's a course description from the Hamilton Center: "Learning to Disagree: The Surprising Path to Navigating Differences with Empathy and Respect." I guess they don't cover Napolean, Grant and Patton.
Non sequitir. The word "empathy" did not come into being until created by early 20th century psychology. The 19th century definition of "respect" is different that the 21st century definition. I have a healthy 19th century respect for the rattlesnakes in my woods, and a complete lack of empathy should one pose a threat. By definition, it is impossible for anyone to empathize with a rattlesnake.
Obviously, you never had to serve on an interagency committee in DC on dealing with rattlesnakes.
I believe there is an entire chapter in Volume 298 Part II Subsection C in the CFR devoted to rattlesnakes.
You sound like the kind of guy who sees a rattlesnake and hits it on the head.
Pete: We need to amplify rattlesnake voices.
The problem with "empathy" is it no longer refers to the actual concept. It has been degraded by psychology's overwhelming, dreadful feminization. It no longer means vicarious introspection (trying to think the way someone else does) but emotional identification with someone else.
I decided history was being rewritten when they teach Lincoln was a democrat.
Or worse, that Lee was a traitor.
Of all the things the Left has done nothing irritates me more than their effort to erase and smear the CSA. (And I am a Yankee,)
The Left's ultimate goal is to erase and smear the USA.
First, they came for Bobby Lee and Jeff Davis and next they are coming for George Washinton and Thomas Jefferson...
You must be a fellow southerner LOL
Only in spirit.
CDR Sal, you gave away the answer in the picture when you described the problem.
The solution to the problem in learning from military history is reading the Great Books. Thucydides, Xenophon, Machiavelli, Sun Tzu, Clausewitz, Mahan, Corbett, etc. I would add Churchill's multivolume The World Crisis and The Second World War, too.
Your library looks a lot like mine.
Not light reading. You might also want to have Will Durant's eleven volume Story of Civilization to understand the particular time frames.
I guarantee the effort will be worthwhile. I was rereading Mahan* and realized he is not all about battleships. He has a lot to say about commercial shipping and an industrial base, too.
* I do think Mahan was very unfair to Lady Hamilton in his biography of Nelson.
I would respectfully disagree Sal. The US Military History community has been growing again in recent years, and while not back to the glory days of the 1960's and early 1970's, it is much more robust than in the past. Other critiques of many universities with land acknowledgement crap, DEI and other stuff not related to actual academic research and writing are valid.
I am afraid the five service academies have been infected with the DEI crap, too.
Our midshipmen and cadets are being taught Howard Zinn's Marxist claptrap.
Have you seen the CV's of some of the recent PhD? I have.
I agree that some are indeed silly. The ones I have worked with who examine aspects of 20th century Navy and Marine Corps history are pretty good. I can only speak for those. I agree the problem is the wider impression of some parts of the academy.
Ben Armstrong is excellent, but I think he was only a visiting instructor, I think. Fellow Norwich guy.
Right on. As a (very amateur) history type, I'm afraid I must agree. I did insist on (and drill) my grandchildren in history when they visited. They sure weren't getting it in school. One minor quibble--why no naval history book in the picture?
There is something seriously wrong when a history major can get a degree without taking a single course in American history.
I have an MA in Military History from Norwich, and while what I learned was and has been useful in my military career, looking at retirement and civilian work, it's a lot, lot less promising. Time for a complete change.
Part of the problem is that there are very few specifically military history programs out there.
Let me put in a plug for Norwich University in Vermont, from where my MA did specifically say "military history."
My graduate degree in history is from a mid-tier state university. I did it for my own enjoyment, after military retirement, not at all interested in academic employment. My advisor/mentor was an Army draftee right out of high school, who served in post-WWII Germany, and used the GI Bill to become a history prof. After the first semester, he told me straight out - you will never receive a grade higher than B, because you vote the wrong way (He was a liberal, I am not). We became very close over the next 3 years, he introduced me to historiography, cliometrics, and oral history. He cautioned me especially about oral history - eyewitness accounts are often inaccurate. He shepherded me through the program, edited my work, and assembled my review committee. They all signed off, and I graduated with a perfect B average. For as long as he lived, I assured him, "John, I would rather earn a B with you than an A with anybody else." He might be the last liberal I will ever socialize with (please excuse my ending that sentence with a preposition). His affinity for Irish whiskey and flame grilled beef transcended politics, and I still remember his rationale for being a liberal - he believed that government existed to help people. He died about 20 years ago, Sometimes I wonder what he would think about the world as it is today. Then I remember the real lesson of history - the world is the same as it ever was. The story just repeats.