Jerry Hendrix has a more extensive and detailed article in a recent National Review issue. He analysis of how we got to this bad place gives the background necessary to the means to turn it around. Worth a read.
I enjoyed this article. Sovereigns exist, even if their power is constrained by constitutions. They exist and they have the need for self-defense. Arming a nation is not a business. A sovereign government constructing weapons of war in government owned factories and laboratories is simply not comparable to producing products for sale to the public.
Once you realize that the goal of the Western - particularly the American - ruling class is the destruction of the West and its middle class, everything they’re doing makes sense. It’s not as though these are stupid people: they’re winning. The problem is not the issues you raise, it’s the refusal by Americans to understand the goals of our overlords and our unwillingness to do anything about those goals - or them.
If all you got out of that was a “woe is me” I never put into it, you seriously need a remedial reading course. And a course in reading class comprehension. I’d recommend taking these separately as they’re too complex for you to understand both at the same time.
Yeah. It’s a bummer you can’t deal with the complex systems of the modern world. Maybe it’s too complex for you, but since covidiocy, “conspiracy theories” have just been spoiler alerts. Covid was made in a lab, NatSec State lied about Hunter’s laptop, Joe’s been on the take for years, J6 was filled with so many FBI agents the feebs can’t tell you without an audit, the vax did have DNA in it, is gene therapy, has increased Covid infection rates, was never tested as a vax, masks never were going to work, climate change is pure bullshit, etc.
So you go ahead on & believe in your nonsense while the educated adults observe & report on the real world around us.
Oh - go read Dunning Kruger so you’ll understand why you don’t realize you’re stupid.
Stating / Re-stating the obvious: Having a severe case of "twenty years ago-itis" seems to be rampant at the senior levels of DoD and the State Department. We think we are what we were 20 years ago and act as if everyone else thinks we are as well. Well, we aren't what we were in quantity, quality, and sustainability and the rest of the world knows it. Haven't read the Hendrix article yet, but suspect the amount of time required to turn things around is something we will not have.
That's what happens when the Octogenarians refuse to relinquish power to the next generation. You elect a politician from the 1970s, you get the deterrence strategy of the 1970s.
If we want to learn how to manage the construction of warships, we need to get the US back in the business of building warships. Time to return the few naval shipyards we have left to the business of building ships.
It is privatization that got us here.
Here's an analogy. A small town has a garbage department. City workers have been hauling trash for decades, and they earn a good chunk of change. The city has been buying garbage trucks, and running a truck repair lot since 1927.
Waste Management comes in. "We can do it cheaper." They offer a 5 year contract at much lower rates. The city lays off the workers, sells the garage and the trucks. Five years goes by. Now Waste Management comes in with a price increase; a big price increase. What can the city do? There are no competitors who will do it for less than Waste Management; and to recreate the garbage department will take millions, millions the city does not have. The city has no choice but to pay Waste Management whatever the company wants. This is what happened to my town, and towns all over America. This is the story of privatisation; cheaper in the short term. Ruinous in the long term.
Until we return to building U.S. Navy ships in U.S. Navy Shipyards we are going to remain in the fix we are in.
And if Congress won't pass the funds to build ships and the administration won't spend funds to build ships how will the shipyard managers justify spending millions for wages for people who are just sitting around? We have shipyards. They aren't building ships because no one ordered ships and no one is paying for ships. Public / private is a problem but it is not the first problem nor is it the main problem. The administration continues to pretend that ships don't wear out. It is politically unpalatable for them to recognize the problem then request and spend the money. I believe that building ships would create a lot of jobs and that should generate votes for the administration who ordered those ships. So, to me, it seems that the administration wants a weak America.
I’m sorry but you are putting the blame on the wrong branch of government. It is the job of the Congress to set policy; and the job of the President to execute that policy. Congress decides how many ships to build, what kinds of ships to build, and where to build them. It is Congress that determined to get the United States out of the shipbuilding business.
And let’s take a step back. It is not really Congress’s fault. We, the people, sent these folks to Congress. It is our fault; yours and mine. Have we educated politicians on the vital role the U.S. Navy plays in shepherding global commerce? Do we insist on electing Representatives who understand the relationship between sea power and the state? No. My folks send folks like Baby Gaetz to Congress. A man who has only eleven bills sponsored (one of them commemorative), none of them significant, and none of them making it to committee. But, he sure can mouth off on TV.
Gaetz has missed 210 of 3,837 roll call votes from January 2017 to Nov 2023, according to govtrack.us, which is 5.5% and, again, much higher than the median average of 1.8% among other Representatives. But, he did rid us of the most effective fundraiser for Republicans, so there’s that.
Now is the time to cheerlead for the U.S. Navy. Our ships are swatting down terrorist drones like flys. Celebrate success and demand more of it.
Another issue is that we don't have the plans for ships to build. Do you want more LCS? When we lost the shipyards we lost knowledge; we shitcanned the folks who knew how to build. When the folks walked in with the LCS plans there were tumbleweeds blowing through the shops where folks who could have said, "that won't work," used to be.
Ditto for aircraft. NAVAIR used to have an internal design team that looked at the state of the art and told the senior leadership what could reasonably be asked for. Instead of pie-in-the-sky.
Can't speak to NAVSEA. But NAVAIR handles acquisition management, Test & Evaluation (meaning finding out what the aircraft will really do, instead of the marketing...and troubleshooting the problems), and depot-level maintenance. I'll cheerfully admit to some inefficiencies, but no value? Nonsense!
This is what historians call a "mission statement." In the past, organizations would spend vast amounts of time and energy on these mission statements. Management committees would draft proposals which the governing branch, then called "HR," would re-draft and resubmit. Some firms, researchers say, spent more human-hours on Mission Statement creation, progulmation, and modification than they did in crafting actual goods or services.
Not just "the administration". This is bipartisan. The last President we had who was NOT sea-blind was Bush the Elder...and he left office over 30 years ago.
We need to play money ball to get more capability built for less cash. Until we can get real volume again and can help support building and operating a national commercial fleet we are just burning money to eek along.
You would have to convince 10s of thousands of people under the age of 30 to get off their but, stop playing video games and get into learning a trade and apprenticeship.
Good luck with that, probs not going to happen for similar reasons why the military can’t get recruits.
Amen and hallelujah, brother! The only way to really know how to do something is to do the thing. That is especially true of warship design and construction.
I've said it before...the Roman Republic may have had a point when they required their political leaders to alternate between elected offices and military field commands. Having skin in the game encouraged good decision-making.
Eerily caused by the Senate seeking to put Caesar on trial after he left office for crimes committed during his time as Governor of Gaul...glad that has no echos in current events.
Well, until we slash the Army and give the savings to the Navy; and make the Air and Space Forces subordinate to the Navy, we probably won't get the deterrence we need.
I'm not opposed to reducing the size of the USA so long as we keep the structure intact. The army like the Marine Corps, is a young man's game. But, we do need a few grizzled vets around to school the youngsters. Where the Air Force belongs is in the USA. An Army, like a Navy, needs an organic air arm. The USA has recreated an Air Corps with helicopters; so now we have two Air Corps, with all the associated staff and REMFs when we need one.
As for space, everyone knows space is a Navy mission.
Deterrence isn't working, at least in the Horn of Africa... Clearly, the Houthi don't mind firing off the rockets they get for free from Russia, causing Israel and the US to deplete expensive defensive missiles (and missiles that are in short supply with very long lead times - especially for the US). They know that the US lacks the will to attack Yemen, seek out the launch sites and destroy them and kill the people launching.
Likewise with the Pirates - under 'international law' they have to be given trials either in the country they are from (whut?) or in the country of the nation that captures them (the Southern District of New York?). Right, like they will actually be tried fairly.
Want to deter them? Great! Launch some TLAMs at Sana'a, hang some pirates (that slow naval hanging, too). Or, wreck their boats and toss them over the side. It's hard world, and even harder when you're stupid: Time for the US to not be stupid.
Pirates tried in the U.S. Courts do get a fair trial. They have lawyers, they are entitled to juries and proof beyond a reasonable doubt. 28 Somalis have been convicted of piracy in the US in recent years.
Exactly. That's the problem: They get flown to New York, get indicted and released on their own recognizance, and are never seen again. In between, they are fed, clothed, given medical care - all of which is far, far better than they have EVER had.
A slow stretch from the masthead is much more efficient.
Dude, they don't get out. They go to prison. Decades later, they get deported.
You have no idea how hard it is for an Indicted individual to get out of pre-trial detention in the U.S. Courts. Now, you may have a loosey-goosy local court system where state level offenders get sweetheart deals, but nobody but the innocent and the ultra rich waits for a federal criminal outside the jail house. In the Federal System the leftiest left wing liberal judge is far to the right of Edmund Burke. Nobody is letting pirates out of jail. The "Captain Phillips" guy got 33 years.
If the Pirates are captured alive they have to be given a trial. Piracy itself has no rights and Pirate states have no sovereignty. Deterrence is falling because the President lacks the will to act. Maritime strikes should be the order of the day.
Yes. A trial presided over by the Captain of the ship that captures them. With defense council. And followed by execution of sentence. All of which is customary international law, no matter what bullshit the UN says.
You know...this "piracy" stik is really getting old. Israel is at war with...Yemen. Yemen is attacking the shipping of their PUBLICLY declaired enemy (Israel). America is NO where here and if the USN does get involved then, yes thats piracy...by the USN. 17th Century Admirals can even see these legal realities so we have less excuse...
Uh no, the Houthi are NOT the legally recognized government of Yemen. They are no different than the Barbary pirates or the Pasha that declared war on the US. 18th Century Admirals can even see these legal realities so we have legal precedent.
The shameless defense of Hamas and their allies in the face of horrific atrocities, rampant antisemitism and violations of international law is really getting old. You can make all the isolationist arguments you want about America's support of Israel in regards to the Gaza War, but once the Houthis start committing acts of piracy against international commerce, then we are discussing a whole different kettle of fish. Protecting maritime commerce is one of the oldest missions of the US Navy and a core US national security interest. Piracy has no rights.
"The Soviets are neither as strong as they appear yet not as weak as they appear." or such as attributed to Churchill. They relished to role of "Crazy Ivan" in conjunction with their nukes as they lacked an additional credible deterrent in that era. That presumed level of unpredictability certainly had our attention during the Cold War. In the end, we were hoping they loved their children more and they hoped US M.A.D-ness never to be provoked. Dangerously imperfect détente, but it was the effect of strategic deterrence.
The problem is analogous to a poorly run household. Over time you accept the dingy and dirty not even realizing it’s dirty and dingy. By being removed from a dingy or dirty household, a person can regain perspective and see how squalid they have been living. Same thing with the Navy.
"I think he has been wrong on nearly every major foreign policy and national security issue over the past four decades,” former Defense Secretary Robert Gates says of Joe Biden. Astute observation then, sad reality now.
The ignorence here is almost painful...maybe call your local Saudi Arabia Embassy. Legitimate goverments negotiate cease fires and peace treaties and that is what Saudi Arabia is doing right now. Yemen is doing what Washington DC NEVER does...follow international law and publicly declare a state of war. Tell me how our illigal bases in Syria fit that definition. We have NO legal status in this real legal war. Israel has a navy so they can go fight their enemy themselves...
The Houthi are NOT the recognized government of Yemen.
"technical professional with higher degree in History and Data Management" - Your spelling and syntax put lie to your biography. Perhaps find a English spellchecker.
Piracy has no rights. Well placed maritime strikes should be the order of the day. Strike the Houthis missile depots, C2 nodes, drone factories and docks. Let them negotiate with a Tomahawk through their window.
So well said, especially the top-5. Sigh.
Jerry Hendrix has a more extensive and detailed article in a recent National Review issue. He analysis of how we got to this bad place gives the background necessary to the means to turn it around. Worth a read.
Is the article linkable?
https://www.nationalreview.com/2023/12/why-defense-is-different/
I enjoyed this article. Sovereigns exist, even if their power is constrained by constitutions. They exist and they have the need for self-defense. Arming a nation is not a business. A sovereign government constructing weapons of war in government owned factories and laboratories is simply not comparable to producing products for sale to the public.
We were supposed to have an institution keeping track of national industrial mobilization questions. It seems to have lost direction, or impact anyhow. See Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwight_D._Eisenhower_School_for_National_Security_and_Resource_Strategy
Once you realize that the goal of the Western - particularly the American - ruling class is the destruction of the West and its middle class, everything they’re doing makes sense. It’s not as though these are stupid people: they’re winning. The problem is not the issues you raise, it’s the refusal by Americans to understand the goals of our overlords and our unwillingness to do anything about those goals - or them.
Specious claptrap. Too much nonsense here to unpack. What does this comment add? "All is lost, woe is me." Nonsense.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
If all you got out of that was a “woe is me” I never put into it, you seriously need a remedial reading course. And a course in reading class comprehension. I’d recommend taking these separately as they’re too complex for you to understand both at the same time.
You conspiracy theorists love complexity.
Yeah. It’s a bummer you can’t deal with the complex systems of the modern world. Maybe it’s too complex for you, but since covidiocy, “conspiracy theories” have just been spoiler alerts. Covid was made in a lab, NatSec State lied about Hunter’s laptop, Joe’s been on the take for years, J6 was filled with so many FBI agents the feebs can’t tell you without an audit, the vax did have DNA in it, is gene therapy, has increased Covid infection rates, was never tested as a vax, masks never were going to work, climate change is pure bullshit, etc.
So you go ahead on & believe in your nonsense while the educated adults observe & report on the real world around us.
Oh - go read Dunning Kruger so you’ll understand why you don’t realize you’re stupid.
Stating / Re-stating the obvious: Having a severe case of "twenty years ago-itis" seems to be rampant at the senior levels of DoD and the State Department. We think we are what we were 20 years ago and act as if everyone else thinks we are as well. Well, we aren't what we were in quantity, quality, and sustainability and the rest of the world knows it. Haven't read the Hendrix article yet, but suspect the amount of time required to turn things around is something we will not have.
DOD, State...and in our political class. The electorate, too. Nobody realizes how much damage 30 years of neglect alternating with overuse has done.
That's what happens when the Octogenarians refuse to relinquish power to the next generation. You elect a politician from the 1970s, you get the deterrence strategy of the 1970s.
If we want to learn how to manage the construction of warships, we need to get the US back in the business of building warships. Time to return the few naval shipyards we have left to the business of building ships.
It is privatization that got us here.
Here's an analogy. A small town has a garbage department. City workers have been hauling trash for decades, and they earn a good chunk of change. The city has been buying garbage trucks, and running a truck repair lot since 1927.
Waste Management comes in. "We can do it cheaper." They offer a 5 year contract at much lower rates. The city lays off the workers, sells the garage and the trucks. Five years goes by. Now Waste Management comes in with a price increase; a big price increase. What can the city do? There are no competitors who will do it for less than Waste Management; and to recreate the garbage department will take millions, millions the city does not have. The city has no choice but to pay Waste Management whatever the company wants. This is what happened to my town, and towns all over America. This is the story of privatisation; cheaper in the short term. Ruinous in the long term.
Until we return to building U.S. Navy ships in U.S. Navy Shipyards we are going to remain in the fix we are in.
And if Congress won't pass the funds to build ships and the administration won't spend funds to build ships how will the shipyard managers justify spending millions for wages for people who are just sitting around? We have shipyards. They aren't building ships because no one ordered ships and no one is paying for ships. Public / private is a problem but it is not the first problem nor is it the main problem. The administration continues to pretend that ships don't wear out. It is politically unpalatable for them to recognize the problem then request and spend the money. I believe that building ships would create a lot of jobs and that should generate votes for the administration who ordered those ships. So, to me, it seems that the administration wants a weak America.
I’m sorry but you are putting the blame on the wrong branch of government. It is the job of the Congress to set policy; and the job of the President to execute that policy. Congress decides how many ships to build, what kinds of ships to build, and where to build them. It is Congress that determined to get the United States out of the shipbuilding business.
And let’s take a step back. It is not really Congress’s fault. We, the people, sent these folks to Congress. It is our fault; yours and mine. Have we educated politicians on the vital role the U.S. Navy plays in shepherding global commerce? Do we insist on electing Representatives who understand the relationship between sea power and the state? No. My folks send folks like Baby Gaetz to Congress. A man who has only eleven bills sponsored (one of them commemorative), none of them significant, and none of them making it to committee. But, he sure can mouth off on TV.
Gaetz has missed 210 of 3,837 roll call votes from January 2017 to Nov 2023, according to govtrack.us, which is 5.5% and, again, much higher than the median average of 1.8% among other Representatives. But, he did rid us of the most effective fundraiser for Republicans, so there’s that.
Now is the time to cheerlead for the U.S. Navy. Our ships are swatting down terrorist drones like flys. Celebrate success and demand more of it.
Another issue is that we don't have the plans for ships to build. Do you want more LCS? When we lost the shipyards we lost knowledge; we shitcanned the folks who knew how to build. When the folks walked in with the LCS plans there were tumbleweeds blowing through the shops where folks who could have said, "that won't work," used to be.
Ditto for aircraft. NAVAIR used to have an internal design team that looked at the state of the art and told the senior leadership what could reasonably be asked for. Instead of pie-in-the-sky.
Between NAVAIR and NAVSEA we have almost 128,000 civil employees compared to approximately 240,000 sailors. What is the value proposition?
Can't speak to NAVSEA. But NAVAIR handles acquisition management, Test & Evaluation (meaning finding out what the aircraft will really do, instead of the marketing...and troubleshooting the problems), and depot-level maintenance. I'll cheerfully admit to some inefficiencies, but no value? Nonsense!
What do the 87,800 NAVSEA employees do?
They don't build warships.
MISSION
"We design, build, deliver and maintain ships, submarines and systems reliably, on-time and on-cost for the United States Navy."
This is what historians call a "mission statement." In the past, organizations would spend vast amounts of time and energy on these mission statements. Management committees would draft proposals which the governing branch, then called "HR," would re-draft and resubmit. Some firms, researchers say, spent more human-hours on Mission Statement creation, progulmation, and modification than they did in crafting actual goods or services.
These "mission statements" were rarely accurate.
Not just "the administration". This is bipartisan. The last President we had who was NOT sea-blind was Bush the Elder...and he left office over 30 years ago.
We need to play money ball to get more capability built for less cash. Until we can get real volume again and can help support building and operating a national commercial fleet we are just burning money to eek along.
Don't forge the Navy is hard to work with also, especially if you want to do commercial business also. Its a double edged sword.
You would have to convince 10s of thousands of people under the age of 30 to get off their but, stop playing video games and get into learning a trade and apprenticeship.
Good luck with that, probs not going to happen for similar reasons why the military can’t get recruits.
Amen and hallelujah, brother! The only way to really know how to do something is to do the thing. That is especially true of warship design and construction.
National Review: https://apple.news/ArW3OsA47QLq83m_G-xYJGQ
Our Duncan Sandys moment.
You will never know when you have paid too much for defense, you will only know when you have paid too little.
I've said it before...the Roman Republic may have had a point when they required their political leaders to alternate between elected offices and military field commands. Having skin in the game encouraged good decision-making.
"My soldiers, I apologize! You have been injured because my enemies in the Senate have tried to injure me..."
Eerily caused by the Senate seeking to put Caesar on trial after he left office for crimes committed during his time as Governor of Gaul...glad that has no echos in current events.
It was a "great" idea until it really, really wasn't. Which uh, led to the end of the Roman Republic.
Well, until we slash the Army and give the savings to the Navy; and make the Air and Space Forces subordinate to the Navy, we probably won't get the deterrence we need.
I'm not opposed to reducing the size of the USA so long as we keep the structure intact. The army like the Marine Corps, is a young man's game. But, we do need a few grizzled vets around to school the youngsters. Where the Air Force belongs is in the USA. An Army, like a Navy, needs an organic air arm. The USA has recreated an Air Corps with helicopters; so now we have two Air Corps, with all the associated staff and REMFs when we need one.
As for space, everyone knows space is a Navy mission.
Deterrence isn't working, at least in the Horn of Africa... Clearly, the Houthi don't mind firing off the rockets they get for free from Russia, causing Israel and the US to deplete expensive defensive missiles (and missiles that are in short supply with very long lead times - especially for the US). They know that the US lacks the will to attack Yemen, seek out the launch sites and destroy them and kill the people launching.
Likewise with the Pirates - under 'international law' they have to be given trials either in the country they are from (whut?) or in the country of the nation that captures them (the Southern District of New York?). Right, like they will actually be tried fairly.
Want to deter them? Great! Launch some TLAMs at Sana'a, hang some pirates (that slow naval hanging, too). Or, wreck their boats and toss them over the side. It's hard world, and even harder when you're stupid: Time for the US to not be stupid.
Pirates tried in the U.S. Courts do get a fair trial. They have lawyers, they are entitled to juries and proof beyond a reasonable doubt. 28 Somalis have been convicted of piracy in the US in recent years.
Exactly. That's the problem: They get flown to New York, get indicted and released on their own recognizance, and are never seen again. In between, they are fed, clothed, given medical care - all of which is far, far better than they have EVER had.
A slow stretch from the masthead is much more efficient.
Dude, they don't get out. They go to prison. Decades later, they get deported.
You have no idea how hard it is for an Indicted individual to get out of pre-trial detention in the U.S. Courts. Now, you may have a loosey-goosy local court system where state level offenders get sweetheart deals, but nobody but the innocent and the ultra rich waits for a federal criminal outside the jail house. In the Federal System the leftiest left wing liberal judge is far to the right of Edmund Burke. Nobody is letting pirates out of jail. The "Captain Phillips" guy got 33 years.
That's unfair they should just be released at sea to go home, like the Russians did to the pirates that seized the Moscow University.
That was an option I offered. After their boats were sunk
A bullet or rope costs nothing compared to the cost of outing pirates on trial. US is doing it wrong.
A bullet still costs a few cents.
Letting them swim home costs nothing
If the Pirates are captured alive they have to be given a trial. Piracy itself has no rights and Pirate states have no sovereignty. Deterrence is falling because the President lacks the will to act. Maritime strikes should be the order of the day.
Yes. A trial presided over by the Captain of the ship that captures them. With defense council. And followed by execution of sentence. All of which is customary international law, no matter what bullshit the UN says.
You know...this "piracy" stik is really getting old. Israel is at war with...Yemen. Yemen is attacking the shipping of their PUBLICLY declaired enemy (Israel). America is NO where here and if the USN does get involved then, yes thats piracy...by the USN. 17th Century Admirals can even see these legal realities so we have less excuse...
Uh no, the Houthi are NOT the legally recognized government of Yemen. They are no different than the Barbary pirates or the Pasha that declared war on the US. 18th Century Admirals can even see these legal realities so we have legal precedent.
The shameless defense of Hamas and their allies in the face of horrific atrocities, rampant antisemitism and violations of international law is really getting old. You can make all the isolationist arguments you want about America's support of Israel in regards to the Gaza War, but once the Houthis start committing acts of piracy against international commerce, then we are discussing a whole different kettle of fish. Protecting maritime commerce is one of the oldest missions of the US Navy and a core US national security interest. Piracy has no rights.
"The Soviets are neither as strong as they appear yet not as weak as they appear." or such as attributed to Churchill. They relished to role of "Crazy Ivan" in conjunction with their nukes as they lacked an additional credible deterrent in that era. That presumed level of unpredictability certainly had our attention during the Cold War. In the end, we were hoping they loved their children more and they hoped US M.A.D-ness never to be provoked. Dangerously imperfect détente, but it was the effect of strategic deterrence.
The problem is analogous to a poorly run household. Over time you accept the dingy and dirty not even realizing it’s dirty and dingy. By being removed from a dingy or dirty household, a person can regain perspective and see how squalid they have been living. Same thing with the Navy.
Per the article's sub-title: “80% of success is showing up” — Woody Allen
https://sfaldin.medium.com/what-woody-allens-showing-up-quote-really-means-ee743f0adbbb
"I think he has been wrong on nearly every major foreign policy and national security issue over the past four decades,” former Defense Secretary Robert Gates says of Joe Biden. Astute observation then, sad reality now.
"Never underestimate Joe's ability to F$%# stuff up."
-Barack Obama
The ignorence here is almost painful...maybe call your local Saudi Arabia Embassy. Legitimate goverments negotiate cease fires and peace treaties and that is what Saudi Arabia is doing right now. Yemen is doing what Washington DC NEVER does...follow international law and publicly declare a state of war. Tell me how our illigal bases in Syria fit that definition. We have NO legal status in this real legal war. Israel has a navy so they can go fight their enemy themselves...
The Houthi are NOT the recognized government of Yemen.
"technical professional with higher degree in History and Data Management" - Your spelling and syntax put lie to your biography. Perhaps find a English spellchecker.
Have a great Navy Day!
Piracy has no rights. Well placed maritime strikes should be the order of the day. Strike the Houthis missile depots, C2 nodes, drone factories and docks. Let them negotiate with a Tomahawk through their window.