I'm obviously not a Navy guy, but Dang, you guys screwed the pooch here. Observations
- Why did the Gate OIC keep his job? A year later the article says: "The unnamed police OIC who watched Savage pass through the gate without proper ID (and failed a half a dozen more times) remains red-tagged and was not working in any law enforcement capacity as of March 19," WTF?
- I've been OIC of Nuke weapons security teams, and we always issued loaded weapons to units that took weaps out in the field (to prevent somebody stealing our MGs). seems to me, If I were the Capt of the DDG, I'd want the OOW with a pistol and the POOW with baton. If Deadly force was not automatically invoked by a special order, e.g. penetrations of an exclusion area, then the guy with the pistol, should be in the second line, and the baton in the first. The ship's Capt is betting his career on good judgement of the deck watch, I'd arm the OOW first
- the OOW actions seemed passive.
- Mayo, no body armor?
- throughout every interaction, they failed these gunfight rules: "Decide to be aggressive enough, quickly enough.", and "Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet."
Marine guards RoE is too strict and tight, to shoot would and could mean Court Martial, to even pull your weapon can get you an Art 15 UCMJ and your career ended.
It's a culture issue to this day. A few years ago, I had a second class complaining to me about a removeable yoke in the body armor, and was loudly unhappy to wear it. She bitched about it because she had to go back and get it when turning in at the end of the AT period. We had heavy vests with plates.
The POW should have been armed as well. When I stood such watches in the early 70s, I was armed with a 1911 and two mags. A Baton is just stupid when you are facing the real possibility of deadly force.
Incredible heroism, only topped by the incredible lapse of security, at multiple, repeated points in the event. You have a "gate runner" procedure, which I would guess doesn't happen often, and you fail to activate it when there is an actual, bona-fide gate runner? And and and and. Sigh.
What has been done to prepare and protect against not just a single drugged up civilian trucker, but a team of two or more motivated people with hostile intentions on behalf of terrorist or hostile nation goals?
Base perimeter fencing, gates and guards are not bad, and have successfully detected and thwarted some unauthorized entries...... that we know of. What about waterfront access, not just to swimmers but a recreational craft with partiers- who aren't?
Pier head security another critical access control point. Probably not manned by our best and brightest, or even shown any appreciation for the importance of their boring duties.
For ships, our precious few ships, for decades the quarterdeck was manned by the OOD (unarmed), the POOW, armed with a pistol everyone hoped they would not lose overboard or negligently discharge, but otherwise was grossly unqualified beyond maybe having been able to make it go "bang" and hit the ocean in a fam fire underway a year earlier. Also a messenger (unarmed), and all with no body armor. A ship's CO has the authority to arm all three quarterdeck watchstanders, require body armor, and actually do meaningful small arms training, even though "we have always done it the other way" forever.
But, what about water borne threats in port CONUS. Those supposed partiers mentioned above- what if it is a single occupant in a simple outboard powered skiff? Just about anything that floats can carry the estimated 500 pounds of C-4 which nearly sank USS Cole in Aden. Worse, the Houthis and Ukrainian forces have successfully sunk large ships with drone boats. Would a drone boat look much different than other civilian in San Diego, Norfolk or Mayport waters?
Do our Rules of Engagement support active force protection, or are they written by JAG types looking to prevent lawsuits or liability if a sailor acting in the scope of their employment and security duties shoots up a boat full of civilians, or a pizza delivery guy on the mid watch? I'd put the JAG types on the security watch bill permanently, but that's just me.
We are not serious about force protection, and MA2 Mayo's heroism has taught us little, IMHO.
Every skipper should read about VADM John D. Bulkeley ("Sea Wolf" by William Breuer) for some inspirational ideas on force protection, maintenance and leadership.
So not sure it things have changed, but they entire structure of how bases are run has always confused me. im sure it has to due with legislation, but it always seemed weird that we don't uncomplicate the command structure. Keep it simple stupid. Commander of a navy base should own everything from facilities to the piers. vice the bifurcated or more division of who owns what.
Ran into this at a certain base overseas where the dedicated marine security detachment reported back to a command in Virginia and not even really directly to the base co. Have an issue with something facilities related nope can't talk to base co have to go to NAVFAC in Jax. Could go on and on.
I sometimes though all this mess was just an way to create O-5 and O-6 command roles.
Hats off to Petty officer Mayo. As to the rest involved, I truly hope that any previous Monday morning quarterbacking has been taken to heart.
🫡
lots of links. at least one is dead. this was the best
https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2015/03/18/report-security-lapses-led-to-fatal-confrontation-at-norfolk/?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email
I'm obviously not a Navy guy, but Dang, you guys screwed the pooch here. Observations
- Why did the Gate OIC keep his job? A year later the article says: "The unnamed police OIC who watched Savage pass through the gate without proper ID (and failed a half a dozen more times) remains red-tagged and was not working in any law enforcement capacity as of March 19," WTF?
- I've been OIC of Nuke weapons security teams, and we always issued loaded weapons to units that took weaps out in the field (to prevent somebody stealing our MGs). seems to me, If I were the Capt of the DDG, I'd want the OOW with a pistol and the POOW with baton. If Deadly force was not automatically invoked by a special order, e.g. penetrations of an exclusion area, then the guy with the pistol, should be in the second line, and the baton in the first. The ship's Capt is betting his career on good judgement of the deck watch, I'd arm the OOW first
- the OOW actions seemed passive.
- Mayo, no body armor?
- throughout every interaction, they failed these gunfight rules: "Decide to be aggressive enough, quickly enough.", and "Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet."
Bring back Marine Corps Security Forces
Marine guards RoE is too strict and tight, to shoot would and could mean Court Martial, to even pull your weapon can get you an Art 15 UCMJ and your career ended.
All links are up.
It's a culture issue to this day. A few years ago, I had a second class complaining to me about a removeable yoke in the body armor, and was loudly unhappy to wear it. She bitched about it because she had to go back and get it when turning in at the end of the AT period. We had heavy vests with plates.
Was it the drag strap, for when she got shot?
I think so. She was very opinionated, and felt it was unneeded.
The POW should have been armed as well. When I stood such watches in the early 70s, I was armed with a 1911 and two mags. A Baton is just stupid when you are facing the real possibility of deadly force.
Incredible heroism, only topped by the incredible lapse of security, at multiple, repeated points in the event. You have a "gate runner" procedure, which I would guess doesn't happen often, and you fail to activate it when there is an actual, bona-fide gate runner? And and and and. Sigh.
It's always amazing that people can have their comfortable world disappear in one single moment and still react competently. There are too few Mayos.
Ten years on, what has changed?
What has been done to prepare and protect against not just a single drugged up civilian trucker, but a team of two or more motivated people with hostile intentions on behalf of terrorist or hostile nation goals?
Base perimeter fencing, gates and guards are not bad, and have successfully detected and thwarted some unauthorized entries...... that we know of. What about waterfront access, not just to swimmers but a recreational craft with partiers- who aren't?
Pier head security another critical access control point. Probably not manned by our best and brightest, or even shown any appreciation for the importance of their boring duties.
For ships, our precious few ships, for decades the quarterdeck was manned by the OOD (unarmed), the POOW, armed with a pistol everyone hoped they would not lose overboard or negligently discharge, but otherwise was grossly unqualified beyond maybe having been able to make it go "bang" and hit the ocean in a fam fire underway a year earlier. Also a messenger (unarmed), and all with no body armor. A ship's CO has the authority to arm all three quarterdeck watchstanders, require body armor, and actually do meaningful small arms training, even though "we have always done it the other way" forever.
But, what about water borne threats in port CONUS. Those supposed partiers mentioned above- what if it is a single occupant in a simple outboard powered skiff? Just about anything that floats can carry the estimated 500 pounds of C-4 which nearly sank USS Cole in Aden. Worse, the Houthis and Ukrainian forces have successfully sunk large ships with drone boats. Would a drone boat look much different than other civilian in San Diego, Norfolk or Mayport waters?
Do our Rules of Engagement support active force protection, or are they written by JAG types looking to prevent lawsuits or liability if a sailor acting in the scope of their employment and security duties shoots up a boat full of civilians, or a pizza delivery guy on the mid watch? I'd put the JAG types on the security watch bill permanently, but that's just me.
We are not serious about force protection, and MA2 Mayo's heroism has taught us little, IMHO.
Every skipper should read about VADM John D. Bulkeley ("Sea Wolf" by William Breuer) for some inspirational ideas on force protection, maintenance and leadership.
JAGs don’t own ROE, the Line does.
And if you tell the JAG to get stuffed what happens?
They get stuffed. No military leader gives a hoot in hell about lawsuits. The US is sovereign. Sue away, the US is imune.
Assuming what you want to do isn’t criminal, then not a lot.
'Would a drone boat look much different than other civilian in San Diego, Norfolk or Mayport waters?"
Like no partiers yelling and raising hell?
I'm not seeing anything about medals or awards for MA2 Mayo. Certainly, he deserved one.
He was awarded a posthumous Navy and Marine Corps Medal.
Thanks for sharing this story!
Bravo Zulu to Petty Offcier Mayo. Never enough and regretfully fewer of the Mayo's are enlisting.
Standing a watch is tedious, nerve wracking boring but always has that possibility of action.
PO Mayo did good.
So not sure it things have changed, but they entire structure of how bases are run has always confused me. im sure it has to due with legislation, but it always seemed weird that we don't uncomplicate the command structure. Keep it simple stupid. Commander of a navy base should own everything from facilities to the piers. vice the bifurcated or more division of who owns what.
Ran into this at a certain base overseas where the dedicated marine security detachment reported back to a command in Virginia and not even really directly to the base co. Have an issue with something facilities related nope can't talk to base co have to go to NAVFAC in Jax. Could go on and on.
I sometimes though all this mess was just an way to create O-5 and O-6 command roles.