126 Comments

♫ From the halls of Montezuma to the shores of Houthi'li. ♪

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big grin here. Semper Fi

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Ooohraaa! Line of departure lock and load, lets go kill some assholes.

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Punishing pirates is why the United States has a navy.

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And while the US doesn't really have a dog in this particular fight, combatting pirates is an international obligation - per the doctrine of sui generis, jus gentium?

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Bretton Woods put our dog in this fight in 1944.

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The international gold standard?

How so? And the agreement was essentially abrogated in 1971, when the US said no more redeeming dollars for gold.

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Bretton woods essentially guaranteed that USN would defend all the sea lanes to open up global trade. Countries wouldn’t have to spend on their own navies; wouldn’t have to worry about traditional competitors/enemies. We’d guarantee free trade globally with USN.

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https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2014/april/seeing-maritime-forest-trees

"Since the end of World War II the U.S. Navy has ringed the periphery of Eurasia with combat power for reasons that have evolved as the world evolved, but in general the purpose has been to support a liberal trading order as envisioned by the architects of the Bretton Woods accords in 1944.4 Such an order promotes widespread economic development and establishes a ring of like-minded nations that can ally with the United States against expansionist continental powers when necessary. Keeping the Navy (and the other services, as necessary) forward is the way."

Bretton Woods led to GATT, which remains largely intact under the WTO.

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Might be fun to build some Q ships and send 'em over.

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The US is one of the few nations that has never agreed to abolish letters of marque, and reprisal....

But that wouldn't work, since a) no state to act against, and b) no ships to sink.

The best thing would be to station armed military personnel on these ships, with appropriate weapons - ATGMs, Manpads, belt feed heavy machine guns...

And don't worry overmuch about prosecutions, or evidence: If bad guys are close enough to get killed, they're guilty.

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There's a maritime equivalent of "shoot, shovel, & shut up."

Cue the Jaws theme …

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The hijackers of the MV Moscow University vanished without a trace after the Russian destroyer released them and put them in a small inflatable boat to go back to Somalia.

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Oddly enough, five days ago The Fat Electrician released a video on the Barbary Wars, back at the start of the US as an individual country and not a British colony.

Whether or not a Decatur or O'Bannon exists at this time is another question. There's certainly no question we don't have a Jefferson or Adams at the figurative helm of the country.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcJhmm3D3OY

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Perhaps the single biggest problem in the West, due entirely to our mal-education system, is the failure to understand history. Western Civ is based on many foundations, but one of the most important is that we killed our enemies. We stopped doing so in 1945, and have been declining since. Just wipe Yemen off the map. Problem: solved.

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shorter version:

FAFO

As for wiping Yemen off the map, there is a middle, less extreme, tradition position. Burn every pirate port...

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True. But arguably less-successful over the longer term. But worth a try. Our feminized country, however, will never go for it.

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agree, but more palatable than your proposed solution. j/k

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If you are going to use military force, then you ought to use overwhelming military force. Use too much and deliberately use too much; you'll save lives, not only your own, but the enemy's too.

- Curtis LeMay

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100%!!!!! Theres no such thing as too much force when somthing needs to be put down. Crush it. Destroy it. Do it so brutally that the 'win' cant even be debated as such by internet trolls.

The beauty of this approach is that others might reconsider their plans. And if not, crush, destroy, rinse, repeat.

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Million Percent Retalliation!

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I doubt Houthi pirates have bunkers. Anti-personnel cluster munitions liberally sprinkled by a few dozen cruise missiles makes for a nice little punitive expedition(ish) response.

Wash, rinse, repeat if necessary.

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What would Stephen Deactur do about pirates?

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Another consequence of our humiliating retreat from and defeat in Afghanistan not to mention the billions given or relased to the regime in Tehran. Seems like we are going back to the Jimmy Carter years.

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I haven't read this entire article so forgive me if I take a swag at what may be going on from what I've read thus far. Iran backed rebels attack a ship that's crewed by persons from NATO countries. Could this be a big middle finger at NATO (USA), daring any action to be taken? If action is taken by NATO (USA), that would provide Iran the provocation they need to step up attacks on US military assets in the greater middle east. Like I stated, just a swag. Things are rarely what they seem...

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NATO crewmembers don't trigger anything. You'd have to go to war, every time some Greek gets nabbed. Flagged carrier might. Maersk ships for example, if they were flagged Danish, but many aren't

"Maersk Line operates 707 container ships, 315 owned and 392 chartered, with another 18 on order, according to Lloyd's List Intelligence. Alongside its Danish flagged vessels, Maersk line has ships under the flags of Hong Kong, Brazil, Netherlands, Singapore and US."

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Like I said, just a swag. Sometimes, individuals matter, why else take hostages. Sometimes these types of things are done to the citizens of powerful countries to make a point like, "see you won't do anything, you're powerless". Not saying that this is what is going on now or that some type of rescue mission isn't already in the planning stages. Retaking that ship, eliminating the terrorists, and rescuing the hostages would send a strong statement that the free would isn't going to bend the knee to thugs.

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My suggestion for the elimination phase would be to hang them from the yardarm and video the event. Everything we do or don’t do sends a message. Might as well send the right message.

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Nov 20, 2023·edited Nov 20, 2023

The problem being a distinct lack of yardarms for the purpose.

Mind you, the Constitution is available, and she even took part in one of the previous times that the US got Really Serious(tm) about fighting piracy.

(No idea on her seaworthiness, though. IIRC the most she's sailed is a mile a year to remain commissioned, and that just to turn her other side to the elements for even weathering, and the 75 member crew is probably not sufficient to do the job beyond those limited deployments.)

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A Naval hanging, too - not the relatively less cruel snap of the neck from the drop: Onboard ships a loose sliding loop was placed around the contemned persons neck, and a few sailors laid on the halyard and hoisted them up into the air - where it would take as long as a half-hour for them to finally succumb to suffocation.

And simply dispose of the carcasses over the side: Sharks gotta eat, too.

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What do you have against sharks?

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An even half competent US military command authority could, within 24 hours of this post, ensure there is not one single flyable helicopter in all of Houthi controlled territory.

Literally.

Ergo, any action less than that is a reinforcement of what we already know about our current feckless command authority.

If there are ANY flag officers reading this who still have a shred of personal honor...

CIC 'Sniffy', may not want to do this, but there is NOTHING preventing you from PROPOSING such a course of action.

Or does that retirement gig at Ingalls or Raytheon matter that much more than your honor?

We do not only count those who step up. Failing to step up does not leave you in some neutral space. ALL those who fail to step up are being counted as well.

And if there is any cosmic justice, come February, 2025, all those who FAILED to step up will be facing a future WITHOUT cushy retirement gigs, and will forever be known for their cowardice.

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If you’ve seen anything since 2009 indicating competency is even a portion of the agenda of DoD, perhaps you could share that with us?

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Find the helicopters (all of them), Find the pilots for said helicopters and eliminate same.

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If the insurance companies of these vessels would allow armed security on board, this nonsense would end rather quickly.

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I share your sentiment, but it's more complicated than just distributing shotguns to the crew. Training. Certification. Storage. Libaility. Port State Control. Etc. I prefer using the Trump approach. Send every pirate leader a picture of his shack with the exact latitude and longitude.

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I didn’t mean arming the crew. Lotsa SpecOps & other experienced infantry perhaps looking around now that we seem to be done with, or on hiatus from blowing up S Asia.

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Still problematic which would require a bunch of MOUs between various countries. A lot of Europen countires have hang ups about guns. But, I get your point.

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Forgive my ignorance, are insurers the blocker for armed security? I’d have thought the opposite, but admittedly know little about it.

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This is from 2011, when this nonsense began. They’re earning up to it a bit but still not all-in, it seems...

Shipowners and insurers have until recently been reluctant to accept the use of armed private contractors. They have hesitated partly due to legal liabilities and risks, including the problem of bringing weapons into some territorial waters and due to fear of escalating violence.

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The Houthis USED to be designated as a terrorist organization but in Feb 2021 some guy that has dumped $16 billion on the Iranians rescinded that designation. The slogan of the Houthis is “death to America, death to Israel, curse the Jews.” Guess we're not on their good side.

Convoys is like herding cats, and as the vid shows the Houthis had eyes on target from a small boat, of which there are 9,997.6 floating around at any given time in the Red Sea. Lobbing a missile or two into Hudaydah is wasting $3 million to blow up 75 cents of mud and maybe 2-3 rebels. Maybe, however, about 20 nightly raids by US and Saudi F-15s, F-16s, toss in some F-35s for glory, and some special Tomahawks to lay waste to any and all infrastructure of any kind, might - just might - dampen their enthusiasm for "yo ho yo ho a pirate's life for me".

Never happen tho since we have many in DC that clearly favor Iran over Israel. Say, whatever happened to that Iranian spy ring in DC?

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"The Houthis USED to be designated as a terrorist organization but in Feb 2021 some guy that has dumped $16 billion on the Iranians rescinded that designation"

By hey, no mean tweets, AMIRIGHT? Thank heaven the adults are back in charge /s

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Nov 20, 2023·edited Nov 20, 2023

"Say, whatever happened to that Iranian spy ring in DC?"

The head spy of that group is the chief of staff for the the assistant secretary of defense for special operations. So, about that hostage rescue operation...

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and we thought Ana Montes was a problem (she was)

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Hard-pressed to get up in arms about this when for generations (centuries?) Lines and their owners have refused to defend their ships.

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This was a professional helicopter assault, not a bunch of guys in an old fishing boat. AFAIK, we don't provide USNS logistics vessels with air-defense radars, Stingers and multi-axis stabilized 30mm autocannon, so it's pretty hard to criticize civilian ships for their not having them.

https://youtu.be/oq-CuORNJcs?t=128

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Looking at the video (which I'd not seen), agree it's not our usual bunch of booger-eaters. Looks like a Hip. Not sure if those are rockets on the stubs so CAS from the bird could not be ruled out and yes, these were guys with SOME training - though not enough to avoid flagging each other.

Still and all, IF you saw this coming I would submit you wouldn't need "...air-defense radars, Stingers and multi-axis stabilized 30mm autocannon,... " to thwart it; coupla well-handled Ma Deuces MIGHT have sufficed.

The fact that our USNS logistics vessels are not adequately protected (AFAIK, you are correct ) is yet another travesty of our feckless management.

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They didn't see it coming. I got the impression from the video that the bridge had no idea they had been boarded until the guys with guns opened the doors. Hence the air defense radar.

And if they did, armed HIPS can carry ATGMs. I don't think I want to the be the guy on the .50 shooting at a helicopter armed with ATGMs or even S-5SB flechette rockets.

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Looked that way to me. Can't respond to what you don't know is happening; hence the old phrase "I can forgive being defeated, I cannot forgive being surprised".

No argument that Hips "can" carry ATGM's; the question is, were they? I don't know.

" Hence the air defense radar. " or maybe lookouts? Yeah, I know; Merships. Seems like I've seen helos on surface search radar, though.

I'm not slagging the crew; they weren't expecting to be attacked or boarded; I am slagging companies putting unarmed Merships to sea.

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Free Palestine

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No such place.

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With any purchase?

But the Egyptians and Jordanians keep refusing the free Palestine. They don't like the taste.

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... from Hamas.

FTFY

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from Ethnic cleansing by the IOF and Israel

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You are in the wrong chat room. This one is dedicated to maritime issues. I am sure you can find one dedicated to terrorism, rape, pedophilia. kidnapping and crime that would be far more to your liking. You can start with your nearby Ivy League college.

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You boomers are really upset that Gen Z doesn't support ethnic cleansing huh

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Yet another great thing about a Navy; you can't ethnically cleanse with a Navy.

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Your parents are first cousins, aren't they?

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If this is ethnic cleansing, than Ill donate more bleach.... Gen Z doesnt understand half of whats going on because it cant be bothered to read an actual book rather than getting its facts from Youtube. Sit down before you hurt yourself...

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I wish you well with your standup comedy routine.

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A great opporunity to award medals with combat "Vs" and Combat Action Ribbons to fine young sailors. Add a few points to their scores when its time for promotion. Go for it.

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Perhaps some variant of this might be useful: "This letter containing details as to procedure, was forwarded by Cominch to the Chief of Naval Operations on February 15, 1942, and CESF [Commander Easter Sea Frontier] was informed that the proposals had been "noted with interest" and were "under consideration." Five days later, on February 20, 1942, the Chief of Naval Operations informed Commander Eastern Sea Frontier that his proposals had been approved, that hereafter the matter would be known as "Project LQ"; that all communications on the matter would be made by word of mouth, insofar as practicable; that a responsible officer would be placed in charge of the work; that on completion, "Project LQ" would be assigned to the force of the Commander Eastern Sea Frontier.

Prior to the inception of "Project LQ," Cominch had arranged for the selection of three other vessels considered suitable for the intended purpose: a Boston trawler and two small cargo vessels of the three-island type. The beam trawler, diesel powered, had formerly operated with the fishing fleet out of Boston under the name, MS Wave. She was originally acquired. for conversion to an auxiliary minesweeper by the Commandant First Naval District. In fact, she was commissioned at Portsmouth, New Hampshire, on March 5, 1942, as USS Eagle (AM-132). Her length was 133 feet, beam 26 feet, maximum speed, 10 knots. Her armament included one four-inch-fifty gun, two .50 calibre machine guns, 4 depth charge throwers, 2 Lewis .30 caliber machine guns, 5 sawed-off shotguns, 5 Colt .45 automatics and 25 hand grenades. She was also equipped with WEA echo ranging and listening equipment. Her complement was 5 officers and 42 enlisted men." https://www.history.navy.mil/research/library/online-reading-room/title-list-alphabetically/q/q-ships-during-world-war-ii.html#origins

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This is not "piracy"...

no...this is WAR. Yemen declaired war.on Israel and now they are taking the shipping of their enemy Israel. Explain to me the legality of our (illigal) bases in Syria or our

illigal remaing in Iraq after we were

OFFICIALLY told to leave...

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Might be a told-you-so-moment for Peter Zeihan.

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Yep. He did make rather pointed predictions about the effect of piracy on Middle Eastern cargo & petroleum traffic, due to exorbitant insurance costs.

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