The argument surrendered to here is even weaker than was the Panama Canal. This should be he easiest piece of land to hold onto in the world. Gibraltar sure looks like ripe pickings now.
My call is that the Brits are trying to run, screaming all the way, to avoid any thought they are, or have ever been, colonialists. No one can run away from their history. But we should also never,ever, make decisions that endanger us or our children. And that is exactly what Great Britain has done. Not only do elections have consequences, but the royal family has been playing “roll over and play dead” for several decades in the form of Prince, now King, Charlie. And Prince William appears to be following in his footsteps. At this point in time, the words of “Rule Britannia” are just wishful thinking. And they are dragging their friends with them.
Why did the Brits give up something that they owned? That island 1150 nm from Dodge has nothing to do with dodge. I swear, the governments of the world have lost their collective marbles.
I mean, if you no longer wish to take care of it, give it to us, we'll run it.
In a nutshell, over the years they legally separated the island chain from Mauritus (which geographically makes sense, pointed out by our host), declared eminent domain and relocated the few thousands inhabitants to Mauritus under a mutual agreement, then signed a 50 years lease with the US with an additional 20 yr buffer going out to 2036. The UK got Polaris out of it.
Cornwall, Wales, Scotland next? Why not give the Guernsey Islands to France? Give the Shetland Islands to Norway and the Isles of Scilly to the descendants of the Phoenicians. Most important though and seemingly off London's radar is recognizing the sovereignty of Sealand and paying reparations for past wrongs and coup attempts. And I remember when Pakistan had a West and East component, the U.N. and the rest of the world hailed the breakaway of the East as right and just. There just might be a way to compensate the former West Pakistan by forcing a plebiscite to see if a majority in England proper wish to become part of Pakistan. If not now, then maybe in 20–30 years when the vote would be a surer thing. All I want for me and mine is for Baja Alabama (the Florida Panhandle) to become its own country before a bunch of ad hoc balkanizer make it more difficult. One proviso though. Matt Gaetz doesn't get his face on our currency.
As a resident of Baja Alabama, I heartedly concur. I no longer want to share a country with the blue-haired psychopaths who seek the destruction of western civilization and its Christian underpinnings.
The British Labor party is like the Democrats. They both are trying to turn their countries into joining the 3rd world. We're just a little behind the UK. At the end of WWII in Europe labor started dismantling the British Empire. While many Americans appear to have resented the empire, the British generally took care of problems before they became American problems. That gave us a century to build our country. Yes they took over territories for British benefit, but their actions rarely hurt and sometimes helped America.
Now both countries socialist/communist citizens want to end free speech and implement every lame brain environmental solution to questionable problems. Like all dictatorial powers, free speech has to go so there is only their version presented to the public. As a warning, the UK has electric rates four times higher than the US going for "carbon neutral". They have the same illegal immigrant problems. Housing shortages, jobs being taken by illegals at the expense of citizens, unresponsive politicians, and the decline of their military power in the face of a dangerous world.
In theory the UK has a 99 year lease on Diego Garcia as part of the surrender of their territory. But 99 years leases sometimes go away. Britain is becoming an unreliable ally. Too bad, they were great in their time. I was born after WWII at the height of US power. I may live to see the end of America if we keep putting people like Obama, Biden, and Carter in power.
They(we) should have learned from the 97 Hong Kong deal. Remember the no change until 2050 pledge by the PRC. Take a look now at HK. How’s that working?
Everyone over the age of 12 knew exactly what was in store for Hong Kong after the transfer agreement was signed. It's called "window dressing" and allows the skunks to run out the back door before the rubes out front in the street know anything's amiss.
The Right loves that sort of thing, the Left promising pie and cake for agreeing to a deal. Then the Right pretends to be shocked when the Left reneges on that part of the deal. Repeat for 100+ years.
Of course they want to rejoin. They voted to stick with England because of the EU, not knowing they'd be leaving against their will a few years later. Leaving the EU was moronic; as stupid as the southern secessionists, but without the bloodshed.
Leaving the EU is why Briton is breaking up. In 5 years, Northern Ireland will be part of a free and independent Ireland, an independent Scotland will be in the EU, and Cornwall's independence movement will be picking up steam.
The federal system used in the US, bringing disparate states together in a common market, took the US from a few poverty stricken farmers on the coast, to a continent-spanning world power. That's why the EU common market is modeled on the US.
I think Brexit was the right move, if only the Tories hadn't betrayed their constituents the way the Romneys, Bushes, McConnells and Ryans have betrayed Republicans over here.
There is no reason for the British to be tied to continental Europe with their extreme socialist attitudes and insane immigration policies.
Economically, Europe is best as one unit. Before 1918, the statistics of the economic interdependence of Germany and her neighbors were overwhelming. Germany was the best customer of Russia, Norway, Holland, Belgium, Switzerland, Italy, and Austria-Hungary; she was the second best customer of Great Britain, Sweden, and Denmark; and the third best customer of France. She was the largest source of supply to Russia, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Holland, Switzerland, Italy, Austria-Hungary, Roumania, and Bulgaria; and the second largest source of supply to Great Britain, Belgium, and France.
Great Britain sent more exports to Germany than to any other country in the world except India, and we bought more from her than from any other country in the world except the United States.
Dropping out of that market was moronic. Just as stupid as living under the thumb of royalty.
Another funny thing about the Scottish Nationalist Party is that its head, Humza Yousaf, complained that the Scottish government has too many white people running it.
The SNP and its secessionist ilk conveniently forget that the United Kingdom is such because the crown of Scotland was united with the crown of England and Ireland in the person of James VI & I on 24 March 1603. King Charles is separately king of Scotland and of England. There is no legal mechanism for Scotland to leave the Union, and even if they did so, Charles would still be King and the Crown would still remain the ultimate authority by law.
I don't know whether this falls under plain sad, or under "it raises my blood pressure", or where. I didn't know that the distance is 1,150nm, I thought - given that the legal claim exists - it's maybe 50nm, or so. This is beyond stupid to the Nth level, simply handing it over to the PRC.
I really would like an explanation of where things went wrong, that the left is suicidal. Make it make sense…
I think the playbook is in no way suicidal, Mr Pop. It simply wants to push toward a total collapse of everything, followed by riding in on a white horse with a plan to present to desperate, starving people to fix it all. btw, I think "geno" would more aptly describe your "-cidal" than "sui".
The Brits made the same mistake with Hong Kong. They apparently didn’t learn. We made the same mistake with Panama. Some things are 100% worth keeping a death grip on.
Thanks for your reply Shaunak. I’m not a British or Chinese subject, so I will defer on that point. That said, I believe Hong Kong and its people were worth protecting. Some things are worth retaining control over, for a variety of reasons. Ones that come to mind, Hong Kong, Diego Garcia, and for the U.S., the Panama Canal.
From an American perspective, it certainly makes sense to retain control of DG. And they have the capability to do it as well.
My reply was merely about the ability to project force in a meaningful manner.
Today, the British Army would struggle to field a single combined arms brigade. The PLA can theoretically field a significant chunk of their 78 combined arms brigades.
The British aren't a global power anymore. Some would even question of they could be called a regional power without the US backstopping their security.
The Really Smart Guys (if you were 'assigned' a gender at birth, then that's your gender. FOLLOW THE SCIENCE!) at the State Department has this turn of events well in hand!!!
LGBTQI+ Special Envoy Stern’s Travel to Mauritius and South Africa
Jessica Stern, U.S. Special Envoy to Advance the Human Rights of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, and Intersex (LGBTQI)+ Persons, will travel to Africa, including Mauritius and South Africa, from August 2-11.
"In Mauritius, SE Stern will participate in the Pan Africa ILGA conference for LGBTQI+ human rights defenders from throughout Africa, as well as scheduled meetings with civil society, officials from the Government of Mauritius, and likeminded international partners.
Afterward, SE Stern will visit Pretoria and Johannesburg, South Africa, where she will participate in meetings with local and regionally focused civil society, as well as government officials, on the eve of National Women’s Day, a day that celebrates the contributions and recognizes the challenges confronting women and girls in South Africa."
They definitely picked an excellent venue to hold this conference. The Ravenala Attitude Hotel in Mauritius has 6.2k Google reviews and with an average rating of 4.6. As a taxpayer, I certainly want even a lowly janitor at State to stay anywhere scoring less than a 4.5.
Perhaps the Brits should import some people from Mauritius, then make one of them PM. That should work to keep DS within the British sphere. Of course, that might put the British sphere under the control of Mauritius but that would likely be seen as a bonus.
What a pile of political correctness crap….
Sadly predictable. Echos of Panama Canal.
The argument surrendered to here is even weaker than was the Panama Canal. This should be he easiest piece of land to hold onto in the world. Gibraltar sure looks like ripe pickings now.
Eh, MI6 will pay for the Basques to get active again if Spain gets uppity.
We should take Gibraltar, pay them for it or simply land Marines.
I was just going to point-out the similarities to the US/Panama agreement of the canal zone.
My call is that the Brits are trying to run, screaming all the way, to avoid any thought they are, or have ever been, colonialists. No one can run away from their history. But we should also never,ever, make decisions that endanger us or our children. And that is exactly what Great Britain has done. Not only do elections have consequences, but the royal family has been playing “roll over and play dead” for several decades in the form of Prince, now King, Charlie. And Prince William appears to be following in his footsteps. At this point in time, the words of “Rule Britannia” are just wishful thinking. And they are dragging their friends with them.
Imperiling the future will not fix the past.
Britain is in the midst of another Churchillian wilderness years.
Why did the Brits give up something that they owned? That island 1150 nm from Dodge has nothing to do with dodge. I swear, the governments of the world have lost their collective marbles.
I mean, if you no longer wish to take care of it, give it to us, we'll run it.
Damned stupid brits.
Background.
http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN04463/SN04463.pdf
In a nutshell, over the years they legally separated the island chain from Mauritus (which geographically makes sense, pointed out by our host), declared eminent domain and relocated the few thousands inhabitants to Mauritus under a mutual agreement, then signed a 50 years lease with the US with an additional 20 yr buffer going out to 2036. The UK got Polaris out of it.
This decision is seriously stupid.
Easier than buying Greenland.
He springs eternal!
edit: that was supposed to be "hope" :)
"Undermines rather than underpins" AYE.
Black is white, up is down...
N. Ireland and Gibraltar next 🙏?
Cornwall, Wales, Scotland next? Why not give the Guernsey Islands to France? Give the Shetland Islands to Norway and the Isles of Scilly to the descendants of the Phoenicians. Most important though and seemingly off London's radar is recognizing the sovereignty of Sealand and paying reparations for past wrongs and coup attempts. And I remember when Pakistan had a West and East component, the U.N. and the rest of the world hailed the breakaway of the East as right and just. There just might be a way to compensate the former West Pakistan by forcing a plebiscite to see if a majority in England proper wish to become part of Pakistan. If not now, then maybe in 20–30 years when the vote would be a surer thing. All I want for me and mine is for Baja Alabama (the Florida Panhandle) to become its own country before a bunch of ad hoc balkanizer make it more difficult. One proviso though. Matt Gaetz doesn't get his face on our currency.
As a resident of Baja Alabama, I heartedly concur. I no longer want to share a country with the blue-haired psychopaths who seek the destruction of western civilization and its Christian underpinnings.
The British Labor party is like the Democrats. They both are trying to turn their countries into joining the 3rd world. We're just a little behind the UK. At the end of WWII in Europe labor started dismantling the British Empire. While many Americans appear to have resented the empire, the British generally took care of problems before they became American problems. That gave us a century to build our country. Yes they took over territories for British benefit, but their actions rarely hurt and sometimes helped America.
Now both countries socialist/communist citizens want to end free speech and implement every lame brain environmental solution to questionable problems. Like all dictatorial powers, free speech has to go so there is only their version presented to the public. As a warning, the UK has electric rates four times higher than the US going for "carbon neutral". They have the same illegal immigrant problems. Housing shortages, jobs being taken by illegals at the expense of citizens, unresponsive politicians, and the decline of their military power in the face of a dangerous world.
In theory the UK has a 99 year lease on Diego Garcia as part of the surrender of their territory. But 99 years leases sometimes go away. Britain is becoming an unreliable ally. Too bad, they were great in their time. I was born after WWII at the height of US power. I may live to see the end of America if we keep putting people like Obama, Biden, and Carter in power.
The British Labor party is like the Democrats. They both are Communists
They(we) should have learned from the 97 Hong Kong deal. Remember the no change until 2050 pledge by the PRC. Take a look now at HK. How’s that working?
Everyone over the age of 12 knew exactly what was in store for Hong Kong after the transfer agreement was signed. It's called "window dressing" and allows the skunks to run out the back door before the rubes out front in the street know anything's amiss.
The Right loves that sort of thing, the Left promising pie and cake for agreeing to a deal. Then the Right pretends to be shocked when the Left reneges on that part of the deal. Repeat for 100+ years.
Charlie Brown and Lucy with a football.
I'd say the "pretend Right" because we really haven't had a non-Statist party anywhere in the West for 70 years
That insincere pledge worked exactly as intended. That's the real power of diplomacy. Diplomacy is duplicity with a smiling face. Like this A.A. Milne meme: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f8/Lam_and_Xi_%3D_Piglet_and_Pooh.jpg
They didn't even make it to 25. Xi is going to lean on Mauritius through debt trap diplomacy to abrogate that treaty and give them the base.
The Brits can't even secure their own country. How are they supposed to keep the Empire? Oh wait.
Free Scotland!
The funny thing is the "Scottish Nationalists" want to rejoin the EU. Sad.
Of course they want to rejoin. They voted to stick with England because of the EU, not knowing they'd be leaving against their will a few years later. Leaving the EU was moronic; as stupid as the southern secessionists, but without the bloodshed.
Leaving the EU is why Briton is breaking up. In 5 years, Northern Ireland will be part of a free and independent Ireland, an independent Scotland will be in the EU, and Cornwall's independence movement will be picking up steam.
The federal system used in the US, bringing disparate states together in a common market, took the US from a few poverty stricken farmers on the coast, to a continent-spanning world power. That's why the EU common market is modeled on the US.
I think Brexit was the right move, if only the Tories hadn't betrayed their constituents the way the Romneys, Bushes, McConnells and Ryans have betrayed Republicans over here.
There is no reason for the British to be tied to continental Europe with their extreme socialist attitudes and insane immigration policies.
Economically, Europe is best as one unit. Before 1918, the statistics of the economic interdependence of Germany and her neighbors were overwhelming. Germany was the best customer of Russia, Norway, Holland, Belgium, Switzerland, Italy, and Austria-Hungary; she was the second best customer of Great Britain, Sweden, and Denmark; and the third best customer of France. She was the largest source of supply to Russia, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Holland, Switzerland, Italy, Austria-Hungary, Roumania, and Bulgaria; and the second largest source of supply to Great Britain, Belgium, and France.
Great Britain sent more exports to Germany than to any other country in the world except India, and we bought more from her than from any other country in the world except the United States.
Dropping out of that market was moronic. Just as stupid as living under the thumb of royalty.
Which is stupid; Europe is not the several states, historically, culturally nor linguistically.
Another funny thing about the Scottish Nationalist Party is that its head, Humza Yousaf, complained that the Scottish government has too many white people running it.
The SNP and its secessionist ilk conveniently forget that the United Kingdom is such because the crown of Scotland was united with the crown of England and Ireland in the person of James VI & I on 24 March 1603. King Charles is separately king of Scotland and of England. There is no legal mechanism for Scotland to leave the Union, and even if they did so, Charles would still be King and the Crown would still remain the ultimate authority by law.
Secession cannot happen, it has to be revolution and that will not be tolerable.
I don't know whether this falls under plain sad, or under "it raises my blood pressure", or where. I didn't know that the distance is 1,150nm, I thought - given that the legal claim exists - it's maybe 50nm, or so. This is beyond stupid to the Nth level, simply handing it over to the PRC.
I really would like an explanation of where things went wrong, that the left is suicidal. Make it make sense…
I think the playbook is in no way suicidal, Mr Pop. It simply wants to push toward a total collapse of everything, followed by riding in on a white horse with a plan to present to desperate, starving people to fix it all. btw, I think "geno" would more aptly describe your "-cidal" than "sui".
The Brits made the same mistake with Hong Kong. They apparently didn’t learn. We made the same mistake with Panama. Some things are 100% worth keeping a death grip on.
The British had no chance of keeping Hong Kong by force. The handover was recognition of the immense disparity in capability between PRC and UK.
Even in this case, only the US could hold Diego Garcia by force against the PRC if it comes to that. The United Kingdom cannot.
Thanks for your reply Shaunak. I’m not a British or Chinese subject, so I will defer on that point. That said, I believe Hong Kong and its people were worth protecting. Some things are worth retaining control over, for a variety of reasons. Ones that come to mind, Hong Kong, Diego Garcia, and for the U.S., the Panama Canal.
From an American perspective, it certainly makes sense to retain control of DG. And they have the capability to do it as well.
My reply was merely about the ability to project force in a meaningful manner.
Today, the British Army would struggle to field a single combined arms brigade. The PLA can theoretically field a significant chunk of their 78 combined arms brigades.
The British aren't a global power anymore. Some would even question of they could be called a regional power without the US backstopping their security.
You are correct. The sun has set on the British Empire.
Panama Canal
Jimmie is still grinning.
Si. So is Xi.
Gibraltar next?
The PLAN is going to be pleased with its new base
We shoulda bought it. Failing that it would seem that the Indians, also 1500 miles away would like a base in the middle of their ocean.
I'd have even taken "sink it" over the present trajectory.
It's not Guam. We can't just flip it over by piling materiel on one side of it
But, 'THE SCIENTISTS SAY!' the islands will be underwater in the very near future, so its a good thing we wont have facilities there....
https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories/story/mauritius-sets-goals-curb-triple-planetary-crisis
"Mauritius sets goals to curb the triple planetary crisis"
Never doubt the UN...
Triple planetary? Are Venus and Mars F%^ked too? Those bastards at Exxon on killing the whole solar system
delightful insight!
We tried to buy it the UK wouldn't sell.
No worries!
The Really Smart Guys (if you were 'assigned' a gender at birth, then that's your gender. FOLLOW THE SCIENCE!) at the State Department has this turn of events well in hand!!!
https://www.state.gov/lgbtqi-special-envoy-sterns-travel-to-mauritius-and-south-africa/
LGBTQI+ Special Envoy Stern’s Travel to Mauritius and South Africa
Jessica Stern, U.S. Special Envoy to Advance the Human Rights of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, and Intersex (LGBTQI)+ Persons, will travel to Africa, including Mauritius and South Africa, from August 2-11.
"In Mauritius, SE Stern will participate in the Pan Africa ILGA conference for LGBTQI+ human rights defenders from throughout Africa, as well as scheduled meetings with civil society, officials from the Government of Mauritius, and likeminded international partners.
Afterward, SE Stern will visit Pretoria and Johannesburg, South Africa, where she will participate in meetings with local and regionally focused civil society, as well as government officials, on the eve of National Women’s Day, a day that celebrates the contributions and recognizes the challenges confronting women and girls in South Africa."
https://mu.usembassy.gov/embassy-port-louis-illuminated-with-rainbow-colors-in-support-of-lgbtqi-rights/
https://mu.usembassy.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/242/mu-pride-1-1140x684.jpg
Yeah buddy! This'll deter the Chinese from taking geopolitical advantage in the IO.
Gah, fookin' 'ell.
They definitely picked an excellent venue to hold this conference. The Ravenala Attitude Hotel in Mauritius has 6.2k Google reviews and with an average rating of 4.6. As a taxpayer, I certainly want even a lowly janitor at State to stay anywhere scoring less than a 4.5.
https://www.maurice-info.mu/2023/08/03/video-news-ceremonie-douverture-6e-conference-regionale-du-pai-a-maurice.html
Only 350 euros per night for an executive suite!
Why you do me like that, Bro?
They're turning the coconut crabs gay!!!
"Gay" is a culturally misappropriated word...
Where is the outrage !?!?!?!
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/O8OCvT4ysLI/sddefault.jpg
The current UK government is incompetent, irrelevant, and inept. A veritable Monty Python skit of foolishness.
Perhaps the Brits should import some people from Mauritius, then make one of them PM. That should work to keep DS within the British sphere. Of course, that might put the British sphere under the control of Mauritius but that would likely be seen as a bonus.