Except for Preying Mantis and Soleimani the Iranians have acted with impunity since 1979. Why wouldn't they act now after observing our current leadership in action?
Our perspectives have been at odds a bunch over the last couple years and I've always been opposed to nuking *you*! ;-p
Seriously, the feelings about Iran are a sore spot for me. Not because Iran is good—they're not, and a bunch of my favorite people fled the Ayatollahs. It's because the Saudis are _so_much_worse_.
It's like, when are we gonna get tired of lining up against the lesser of two evils?
Bin Laden is dead. Al Qaeda is not a nation state threatening war. Iran is a nation state that has killed Americans with near impunity and threatens to kill American citizens.
First, Iran is not a monolith. It is ruled by a religious dictatorship, but, there are normal folks like you and me, only they live under the boot of a religious tyrant. We should be cautious, careful and prudent in our dealings with Iran.
Second, what do the mullahs want? We should make sure they don't get it. This war popped up because Iran is desperately trying to avoid Israel's rapprochement with the wider Arab world. If the Saudis recognise Israel as a nation it is game over. Israel and the House of Saud were close to making steps to this goal when this war broke out. Coincidence? Nah.
Iran’s intelligence and security forces have been committing horrific acts of torture, including beatings, flogging, electric shocks, rape and other sexual violence against child protesters as young as 12 to quell their involvement in protests. "I was forced to say what they wanted because they raped me with a hosepipe. They were taking my hand and forcibly making me fingerprint the papers," a boy who was detained by state agents told his mother.
In 1978 the populace was tired of the Shah Iran’s intelligence and security forces committing horrific acts of torture, including beatings, flogging, electric shocks, rape......
Anyone remember Jimmy Carter's Ambassador to the U.N., Andrew Young? From the NYT February 8, 1979:
"Andrew Young, the chief United States delegate to the United Nations, praised Islam yesterday as 'a vibrant cultural force in today's world' and said that Ayatollah RuhoBah Khomeini, the Iranian Islamic leader, would eventually be hailed as 'a saint.'”
THEY ARE LYING TO YOU. Every war is about religion, especially in the Sandbox. Just saying...
1) They lied to u about Russia Collusion
2) They lied to u about the Ukraine War
3) They lied to u about the Ukraine Biolabs
4) They lied to u about Cov-i-d 19 Plandemic
5) They lied to u about Lockdowns
6) They lied to u about Useless Facemasks
7) They lied to u about Vaxxeens
8- They lied to u about Ivermectin
9) They lied to u about Hydroxychloroquine
10) They lied to u about Twitter Censorship
11) They lied to u about the Fake Steele Dossier
12) They lied to u about the 2020 Ele-ct-io-n
13) They lied to u about the 2022 Midterms
14) They lied to u about Hunter's Laptop
15) They lied to u about Hillary's Emails
16) They lied to u about the FBI/CIA spying on your social media
17) They lied to u about Fast & Furious
18) They lied to u about Election Interference
19) They lied to u about 9/11
20) They lied to u about Saddam & Iraq having WMDs
21) They lied to u about PizzaGate
22) They lied to u about Child S-e-x Trafficking
23) They lied to u about Epstein S-e-x Island
24) They lied to u about The Patriot Act
25) They lied to u about The Global War on Terror
26) They lied to u about The Southern Border
27) They lied to u about Jan. 6th
28) They lied to u about Vietnam
29) They lied to u about Watergate
30) They lied to u about JFK
31) They lied to u about RFK
32) They lied to u about MLK, Jr.
33) They lied to u about Benghazi
34) They lied to u about Afghanistan
35) They lied to u about The War on Drugs
36) They lied to u about HIV/AIDS
37) They lied to u about Cancer
38) They lied to u about Climate Change
39) They lied to u about The Green New Deal
40) They lied to u about Food, Water, Cleaning Products
41) They lied to u about The Federal Reserve
42) They lied to u about The Washington Act of 1871 where Congress cut a deal w/foreign powers and intl. bankers and took the $ making 10 sq. miles of DC sovereign and changed us from the Republic FOR The United States of America to the United States Corporation where we're all "citizens" w/privileges instead of rights given by God!
43) They lied to u about Mass Shootings
44) They lied to u about The Great Reset
45) They lied to u about Agenda 21
46) They lied to u about Agenda 2030
47) They lied to u about the Anthony Weiner Laptop
48) They lied to u about Wikileaks and Julian Assange
49) They lied to u about Waco
50) They lied to u about Ruby Ridge
51) They lied to u about Nashville
52) They lied to u about Las Vegas
53) They lied to u about Hollywood
54) They lied to u about the OKC Bombing
55) They lied to u about Andrew Breitbart's Death
56) They lied to u about Gold
57) They lied to u about Michael Obama
58) They lied to u about Obama's kids
59) They lied to u about Margaret Sanger
60) They lied to u about Joan Rivers' Death
61) They lied to u about Haiti
62) They lied to u about Hunter's Cocaine
63) They lied to u about Investing on Wall St.
64) They lied to u about Chinese Spy Balloons
65) They lied to u about 15min. Cities
66) They lied to u about Feminism
67) They lied to u about Antarctica
68) They lied to u about Freemasons
69) They lied to u about Operation Mockingbird
70) They lied to u about MK Ultra
71) They lied to u about Chemtrails
72) They lied to u about the Earth, Roswell, NASA, Outer Space, Moon Landing??
Tough call, CDR. Glad you are in charge. Rocks & glass houses, schadenfreude at fiery self-immolations, superiorizing smugness, serial littering & slantendicular inanities, rubber necking traffic accidents, gratuitous self-amusement must be balanced with adult leadership. Leastways, running this place is nowhere near like being the janitor at a Big City ER. The civility and content here is very high. BZ.
perhaps a limit on numbers of comments or replies one can make on each post? seems online arguments often ensue, with no one actually submitting much more than name calling sometimes. it's disconcerting, distracting from subject.
Other than points 42, most likely 57 and 58, 68, 71, and most of 72, I'd tend to say the other points have all in fact been lied about by our government consistently and demonstrably.
To be fair, I'd say 90% of those points are areas where our government and/or "intelligence community" have lied to the citizens.
Including the garbage about the Obamas, chemtrails, and the moon landing in such lists is, I believe, an attempt to discredit the truth of the malfeasance visited upon us by agents of government over the decades.
Cringing as I type this, but have to wonder what our plan actually is. How quickly would a DDG's VLS cells be emptied shooting down drones / cruise missiles? Shudder to think we might be plinking low value targets at the expense of the ability to defend ourselves or hit the "real" target when the time comes. Iran seems to have enough media plausible deniability to keep public opinion away from ground truth, meaning we could find ourselves on the wrong end of a UN resolution condemning us for "escalation" if we hit them. Our forces will defend themselves competently (I hope and pray). We're now in the WEZ of multiple unfriendly entities, can't rule out someone deliberately targeting us to escalate and broaden the conflict. Looking for candidates to do that produces a long list with little or no effort.
I doubt we'd pull into Israel right now, and Bahrain would be a better choice, since we have a long-standing secure base there. That has issues too, what with Iran very nearby.
How about we have us a Hawg round up. Fit them boys out with a bunch of hydra rockets with APKWS kits and go plinking drones. Seems like a cheaper alternative than SM2's... just saying
You're not wrong about the Navy not having a variety of cost effective weapons to deal with drones. In this case, the 5" Mk45 gun was one of the weapons systems utilized and arguably the most cost effective in this case. Not sure how many rounds were fired or, how many engagements (we'll have to be patient) but, rather interesting the drones (not engaging a missiles with a deck gun) was on a flight path that put them in-range of the Carney.
I'd vote for this - a threat to sink every ship in the Iranian Navy if the hostages aren't released by X, and X means soon. You hit Iran where you can't hurt civilians, who despise their regime, so you reduce the risk of turning the civilians against us. Even as small as it is, their Navy is still an important asset to the regime. Hitting back at proxies - what does this do?
Heck, end an Iranian Air Force base for all I care. But take out an asset that matters to Iran. The proxies are useful idiots to the Mullahs. And sacrificial lambs.
I second your motion. But first, a Bravo Zulu to the crew of Carney. Quick action, apparently well executed. As Sal points out, the Houthis likely had no idea that we had an asset in place to shoot down their birds. And right after finding out about the fate of said birds, there was probably an “Oh, crap!” moment in Yemen. The Houthis are pretty well hanging out in the breeze as regards a sea or airborne assault. There is nothing but sand all around, i.e., clear approaches and fields of fire. A Ranger company should be able to eliminate Yemen as a point of future attacks fairly easily. Doing so has several benefits: removal of a piece from the conflict board, deconfliction of U.S. action from the so-called “Palestinian refugees”, and a clear sign to the Persian-based “12th Imam” crowd that we can play chess as well (think in terms of eliminating that pesky rook or bishop).
I am not at all shocked that Persians would consider Arabs as merely collateral damage in their efforts to destroy all Jews, especially these Arabs. “Palestinians” were never recognized as a legitimate national or ethnic group by the Ottoman Empire. Aside from an insulting reference by the Romans when they began referring to the area as Palestinia following the Wars of the Maccabees, “Palestinians” have only existed in anyone’s mind since the disastrous machinations of American, British, and French politicians during and following WWI. The 1948 Israeli war of independence left Jordan and Egypt with a group of people that neither country wanted. Instead of living with a two state solution, five Arabic countries tried to eliminate Israel as a country and finish the Third Reich’s attempts at genocide. Those five countries outright cheated all of the affected Arabs out of a peaceful life. In the early days of the 20th century, property owners in Damascus and other large cities sold the farm land they owned to Jewish immigrants, thus dispossessing the current Arab farmers trying to just make a living. And they have been cheating them ever since by using them as pawns. Cheat someone and get away with it, and you’ll quickly realize you can do anything you want to those people.
We must assume Saudis would not approve of houthis missiles in their airspace, hence must fly up the Red sea. But in this era of video how could hourhis not know carney was in flight path? Why would they waist missiles etc. What were they testing?
The U.S. COA in Afghanistan as never clearly defined. Just fluffy “nation building” with no foundation. Hence, twenty plus unproductive years spent wasting people, treasure, and elsewhere opportunities. Yemen COULD be a straight two week in and out if we let warriors make and execute the plan. Otherwise, you would be entirely correct and I would be responsible for another twenty years of body bags.
The problem I see is that Netanyahu is tied to attacking Iran and the Arab world will see us as agents of Israel. Self defense is fine but anything else will boomerang on us
Well, think about your position in the real world. Self defense is fine. You can meet violence with violence until the violence is over; what's moral in our personal conduct is moral in international relations.
But, while using violence to defend yourself against an attacker is fine, you can't march around demanding your point of view be honored at the point of a gun. We call that robbery.
"Last week we deployed UK based F-15E Strike Eagles to Jordan. That is clearly designed to deter Hezbollah in Lebanon and perhaps as part of possible action against Gaza"
Why Jordan? Because it would be a stronger message if we based in Israel?
Doesn't Jordan basing either limit our response options or risk widening the conflict?
Israeli airbases are a bit busy at the moment. Deploying the F-15s to Jordan also sends a message to all concerned; perhaps that Hezbollah, etc. do not have universal or unqualified support in the Arab world?
The US and Iran have been in a DeFacto State of War since November 1979. The Iranians have bombed US Embassies and military Installations throughout the Middle East, attacked US Forces in Iraq and Kurdistan during OIF, OIR. This list goes on.
The only time the Iranians backed down was when the Vincennes took out Iran Air 655. Good ol Robocruiser.
I've discussed with some IC Friends about why now, the Iranians seem really intent on provoking a US Military response in the region. Power Struggle in Tehran among the Hard Liners and Ultra Hard Liners in the Guardian Council? Did the Iranians develop a Nuke or obtain a Nuke from the North Koreans?
If the proverbial Balloon goes up in the Middle East with an Iranian attack in the region, even if the US moderates their response, you can be sure the Israelis wont.
Don't forget the Iranians theological belief that cataclysmic events are needed to bring forth their hidden imam. Their risk/reward analysis and decision making will not be the same as what the U.S., Israel or rational people would decide.
Fixing Iran's theocratic crazy leadership is NOT a vital U.S. national interest, nor is preserving every border drawn on every map. Bad people do bad things and we are too broke, and militarily too weak any more to be the world's policeman and nation builder.
It is foolish to shove our noses closer to a crazy thug and dare them to punch us. The first rule for winning a gun fight is to avoid the gun fight if at all possible.
To reward Iran with $6 billion ransom for 5 hostages was a huge mistake, and incentivized their proxies to seize more hostages.
Endorse (and aid) the Israelis in their essential mission of destroying Hamas, but stay out of the ring.
So? Sixty-two countries allow dual citizenship with the US., including Italy, which I guessing by your name, is where your lineage originates. Are you implying that people from Middle Eastern countries should not be allowed to be US citizens? Is America for white people only? There was a time early last century when lots of Americans didn't want to let Italians in. https://immigrantinvest.com/blog/dual-citizenship-for-us-citizens-en/
Assume you mean 'no' rather than 'nu.' FYI, there is an edit option for the messages (click on the ellipses for a menu). So then what do you think the writer implied from his explicit differentiation between Middle Eastern names & European (traditional American) names?
The edit function is not available from my iPhone. As to the other: He made an invalid assumption I am Italian which is neither true nor relevant to the discussion. He was just demonstrating his stupidity.
No, but it should be for Americans only. As the oath of citizenship states, in English;
" I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same"
Nothing in that oath about duality. If someone wants "dual citizenship", I am willing to give them one (1) day per year to celebrate their duality; Irish have St. Patrick's day, Italians have Columbus day, Mexicans have Cinqo de Mayo, Iranians can have Ayatollah day or whatever. That's it. The other 364 days are America day.
Can't really disagree too much with that. Anyone who's an American citizen should have America as their primary loyalty. (BTW, you left out Germans, I guess we get Oktoberfest.)
But as far as immigration is concerned, the system is totally broken. There are millions of people willing to be here temporarily to do jobs that Americans won't do - landscaping, harvesting crops, cleaning peoples homes, & the like. There should be a much larger guest worker program. And people who would like to become Americans because they come from countries with repressive regimes, or even poor countries, and can contribute to the national good in fields like those STEM-related, there should be a pathway to allow them to come & contribute to America & earn citizenship. I myself am a naturalized citizen (although a toddler at the time) originally adopted and brought from Germany. Probably the best thing that ever happened to me. And I repaid the debt in part by serving 12 years in the Army, including 3 yrs in Fulda, FRG (1988-1991) where I had a front row seat for the fall of the USSR & the reunification of Germany. Witnessed history.
I do not believe the "do jobs that Americans won't do" argument. The larger labor force depresses wages.
I do not believe that without massive uneducated immigration we'd all be sitting around in dilapidated houses with overgrown lawns, allowing our yards to return to the wilderness and starving to death because no one will cook our food for us.
Americans have become entitled & decadent. For example: "Felbab-Brown explains that many of the jobs occupied by undocumented workers in the United States are physically demanding jobs that Americans do not want, such as gutting fish or work on farm fields." (https://www.brookings.edu/articles/do-immigrants-steal-jobs-from-american-workers/). The wages that you'd have to pay Americans to do the menial and/or physically demanding jobs that immigrants do would result in huge increases in the costs of those services & products. Americans are addicted to low prices & having to pay $10 for a head of lettuce or $100/day for lawn care would quickly put those goods & services out of reach to a broad swath of the American populace. Additionally, cost increases of that magnitude would further fuel inflationary pressures.
My apologies, but I had to draw the line somewhere. I am actually rather fond of Germany.
" jobs that Americans won't do - landscaping, harvesting crops, cleaning peoples homes, & the like"
Sorry, but that's BS. I spent a good part of my working life doing those jobs, including cleaning a helluva lot of toilets, and the folks working right along side of me were white, native-born, English speaking Americans. I would, incidentally, recommend a TV series(?), "Dirty Jobs", and its creator Mike Rowe, who has a website "mikeroweworks".
It does make a good sound bite, though, and a glib excuse for more-immigration-at-any-cost enthusiasts.
> None of this would happen without Iran’s backing, money, weapons, and larger network of proxies that all form different fingers of a fist aimed at Israel.
And none of this would happen without America's backing, money, larger weapons, and smaller network of proxies directed at Tehran!
/s
Look, all the support we give the IDF, and yet still they take their orders from Bibi, not Biden. We cajole, not control; we have influence but it's not unlimited.
Forget that Iran deals with the same complexities in it's relationship with Hamas, and that invites miscalculation.
Which gets to my real beef with "none of this would happen" as a claim. If the President of the United States and the Supreme Leader of Iran met and made an agreement for both to simply withdraw from the whole Israel/Palestine conflict—and both those leaders referred the agreement their respective democratic assemblies—and both those assemblies ratified the agreement, which became a treaty—and both sides honored the treaty—if all those things happened, this would still be happening!
In fact, what does the front porch think is more achievable? The things I've described? Or bringing peace to the Holy Land?
What every reader of this blog should do is sit down and put pen to paper and write your Congressman. Tell him how proud you are of the Navy's response to the war, and DEMAND THAT HE FUND THE CONSTRUCTION OF MORE SHIPS LIKE THE ONE THAT SHOT DOWN IRAN'S MISSILES.
Somebody put it better than I did, and I think he wrote that we should "build TICOs until the cows come home." That asset has shown value, now is the time to press for more of them.
Oh goody, time for another round of the Middle East version of the game "Proxie Whack-a-Mole." So rather than darting here and fro plinking terrorists with Hellfire missiles, this time we will be all about plinking slow moving drones and cheap cruise missiles with expensive anti-air missiles. Perhaps this will avail us of an opportunity to lower the transaction costs of dealing with this garbage rather than employing SM-2's.
Except for Preying Mantis and Soleimani the Iranians have acted with impunity since 1979. Why wouldn't they act now after observing our current leadership in action?
I would add Nimble Archer in response to the US flagged Kuwaiti tanker attack. But pretty much impunity.
We've acted with impunity since 1953; don't forget that.
Death to America, death to Jews is pretty much at odds with my perspective. If they were nuked tomorrow it wouldn't bother me.
Our perspectives have been at odds a bunch over the last couple years and I've always been opposed to nuking *you*! ;-p
Seriously, the feelings about Iran are a sore spot for me. Not because Iran is good—they're not, and a bunch of my favorite people fled the Ayatollahs. It's because the Saudis are _so_much_worse_.
It's like, when are we gonna get tired of lining up against the lesser of two evils?
The Sauds aren't in the habit of publicly calling for the death of America.
You must be watching different Bin Laden's videos than I am.
Which season are you on?
Bin Laden is dead. Al Qaeda is not a nation state threatening war. Iran is a nation state that has killed Americans with near impunity and threatens to kill American citizens.
Solid analysis, Professor. What to do about Iran?
I am a big fan of sharp-elbowed containment.
lol
I’m a bigger fan of big stick containment for wannabe’s.
Sharp Elbows are polite pokes for near peers.
First, Iran is not a monolith. It is ruled by a religious dictatorship, but, there are normal folks like you and me, only they live under the boot of a religious tyrant. We should be cautious, careful and prudent in our dealings with Iran.
Second, what do the mullahs want? We should make sure they don't get it. This war popped up because Iran is desperately trying to avoid Israel's rapprochement with the wider Arab world. If the Saudis recognise Israel as a nation it is game over. Israel and the House of Saud were close to making steps to this goal when this war broke out. Coincidence? Nah.
I know, right? I'd bet in 1946 nobody had ever actually voted for Hitler. Especially if you asked them.
Iran’s intelligence and security forces have been committing horrific acts of torture, including beatings, flogging, electric shocks, rape and other sexual violence against child protesters as young as 12 to quell their involvement in protests. "I was forced to say what they wanted because they raped me with a hosepipe. They were taking my hand and forcibly making me fingerprint the papers," a boy who was detained by state agents told his mother.
In 1946 nobody admitted to voting for Hitler.
In 1978 the populace was tired of the Shah Iran’s intelligence and security forces committing horrific acts of torture, including beatings, flogging, electric shocks, rape......
what is your point?
I have the same level of sympathy for Iranians as I do the citizens of Dresden.
Then Came Carter, James Carter who decided to protect the Shah and here we are.
Actually, our boy Jimmy pretty much forced the Shah to bring the Ayatollah back to Iran.
Anyone remember Jimmy Carter's Ambassador to the U.N., Andrew Young? From the NYT February 8, 1979:
"Andrew Young, the chief United States delegate to the United Nations, praised Islam yesterday as 'a vibrant cultural force in today's world' and said that Ayatollah RuhoBah Khomeini, the Iranian Islamic leader, would eventually be hailed as 'a saint.'”
https://www.nytimes.com/1979/02/08/archives/young-praises-islam-as-vibrant-and-calls-the-ayatollah-a-saint.html
Young was also instrumental in getting Robert Mugabe in to power in Zimbabwe. Still, Carter is not our worst President.
I am willing to bet in the late 30's the German Jews voted for Hitler.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Jewish_legislation_in_pre-war_Nazi_Germany#Law_for_the_Restoration_of_the_Professional_Civil_Service
I 'll take a piece of that bet.
Me too. I guess he's never heard of Kristallnacht.
THEY ARE LYING TO YOU. Every war is about religion, especially in the Sandbox. Just saying...
1) They lied to u about Russia Collusion
2) They lied to u about the Ukraine War
3) They lied to u about the Ukraine Biolabs
4) They lied to u about Cov-i-d 19 Plandemic
5) They lied to u about Lockdowns
6) They lied to u about Useless Facemasks
7) They lied to u about Vaxxeens
8- They lied to u about Ivermectin
9) They lied to u about Hydroxychloroquine
10) They lied to u about Twitter Censorship
11) They lied to u about the Fake Steele Dossier
12) They lied to u about the 2020 Ele-ct-io-n
13) They lied to u about the 2022 Midterms
14) They lied to u about Hunter's Laptop
15) They lied to u about Hillary's Emails
16) They lied to u about the FBI/CIA spying on your social media
17) They lied to u about Fast & Furious
18) They lied to u about Election Interference
19) They lied to u about 9/11
20) They lied to u about Saddam & Iraq having WMDs
21) They lied to u about PizzaGate
22) They lied to u about Child S-e-x Trafficking
23) They lied to u about Epstein S-e-x Island
24) They lied to u about The Patriot Act
25) They lied to u about The Global War on Terror
26) They lied to u about The Southern Border
27) They lied to u about Jan. 6th
28) They lied to u about Vietnam
29) They lied to u about Watergate
30) They lied to u about JFK
31) They lied to u about RFK
32) They lied to u about MLK, Jr.
33) They lied to u about Benghazi
34) They lied to u about Afghanistan
35) They lied to u about The War on Drugs
36) They lied to u about HIV/AIDS
37) They lied to u about Cancer
38) They lied to u about Climate Change
39) They lied to u about The Green New Deal
40) They lied to u about Food, Water, Cleaning Products
41) They lied to u about The Federal Reserve
42) They lied to u about The Washington Act of 1871 where Congress cut a deal w/foreign powers and intl. bankers and took the $ making 10 sq. miles of DC sovereign and changed us from the Republic FOR The United States of America to the United States Corporation where we're all "citizens" w/privileges instead of rights given by God!
43) They lied to u about Mass Shootings
44) They lied to u about The Great Reset
45) They lied to u about Agenda 21
46) They lied to u about Agenda 2030
47) They lied to u about the Anthony Weiner Laptop
48) They lied to u about Wikileaks and Julian Assange
49) They lied to u about Waco
50) They lied to u about Ruby Ridge
51) They lied to u about Nashville
52) They lied to u about Las Vegas
53) They lied to u about Hollywood
54) They lied to u about the OKC Bombing
55) They lied to u about Andrew Breitbart's Death
56) They lied to u about Gold
57) They lied to u about Michael Obama
58) They lied to u about Obama's kids
59) They lied to u about Margaret Sanger
60) They lied to u about Joan Rivers' Death
61) They lied to u about Haiti
62) They lied to u about Hunter's Cocaine
63) They lied to u about Investing on Wall St.
64) They lied to u about Chinese Spy Balloons
65) They lied to u about 15min. Cities
66) They lied to u about Feminism
67) They lied to u about Antarctica
68) They lied to u about Freemasons
69) They lied to u about Operation Mockingbird
70) They lied to u about MK Ultra
71) They lied to u about Chemtrails
72) They lied to u about the Earth, Roswell, NASA, Outer Space, Moon Landing??
Anything Else?? 🤔
Take this q-anon, conspiracy bullshit somewhere else. Occam's Razor, dude.
Diet and exercise will help you lose weight.
You don't shave your face with Occam's Razor.
We seem to have attracted a lot of trolls lately.
I know. I'm tempted to delete or ban them, but in some ways it is helpful just to see it and know it is there.
Tough call, CDR. Glad you are in charge. Rocks & glass houses, schadenfreude at fiery self-immolations, superiorizing smugness, serial littering & slantendicular inanities, rubber necking traffic accidents, gratuitous self-amusement must be balanced with adult leadership. Leastways, running this place is nowhere near like being the janitor at a Big City ER. The civility and content here is very high. BZ.
perhaps a limit on numbers of comments or replies one can make on each post? seems online arguments often ensue, with no one actually submitting much more than name calling sometimes. it's disconcerting, distracting from subject.
Half the population has below average intelligence. It is good to be reminded of that every now and then.
below average or below median? I get them confused; must be in the lower half regardless!
It's fun on occasion to troll the trolls. (Alphacheck, where art thou?)
Other than points 42, most likely 57 and 58, 68, 71, and most of 72, I'd tend to say the other points have all in fact been lied about by our government consistently and demonstrably.
73/100 is a solid "C". Might be more convincing as an "A+", 100/100.
Shove off, sub-literate troll.
Who is this "they?"
Hmmph! If you don't know by now they have obviously gotten to you.
It's always "They." There ain't a single "They" listed in the phonebook.
You don't expect them to come right out and admit who they are, do you?
To be fair, I'd say 90% of those points are areas where our government and/or "intelligence community" have lied to the citizens.
Including the garbage about the Obamas, chemtrails, and the moon landing in such lists is, I believe, an attempt to discredit the truth of the malfeasance visited upon us by agents of government over the decades.
I agree. Just say your government lied instead of they lied.
definitely. Tempted to add the "they" formation to the discrediting effort
Cringing as I type this, but have to wonder what our plan actually is. How quickly would a DDG's VLS cells be emptied shooting down drones / cruise missiles? Shudder to think we might be plinking low value targets at the expense of the ability to defend ourselves or hit the "real" target when the time comes. Iran seems to have enough media plausible deniability to keep public opinion away from ground truth, meaning we could find ourselves on the wrong end of a UN resolution condemning us for "escalation" if we hit them. Our forces will defend themselves competently (I hope and pray). We're now in the WEZ of multiple unfriendly entities, can't rule out someone deliberately targeting us to escalate and broaden the conflict. Looking for candidates to do that produces a long list with little or no effort.
and where do you go to restock? Rota? DG?
The closest that might be able to is Sicily, I think. Otherwise probably Rota.
Possible for either Israel (via Gulf of Aqaba) or Saudi Arabia can restock?
I doubt we'd pull into Israel right now, and Bahrain would be a better choice, since we have a long-standing secure base there. That has issues too, what with Iran very nearby.
Not Souda Bay?
Souda Bay, nice place, ever been there?
9 miles long, by 1 1/4 miles wide.
Belongs to Greece and Crete.
Missile base.
Crete. I know some guys who went there for maintenance ops.
Naples?
Maybe Souda Bay??
How about we have us a Hawg round up. Fit them boys out with a bunch of hydra rockets with APKWS kits and go plinking drones. Seems like a cheaper alternative than SM2's... just saying
The emptying of the cells worries me, as well.
Aviation Sceptic says: "How quickly would a DDG's VLS cells be emptied"
--------
That's a problem because VLS cells can not be replenished at sea.
You're not wrong about the Navy not having a variety of cost effective weapons to deal with drones. In this case, the 5" Mk45 gun was one of the weapons systems utilized and arguably the most cost effective in this case. Not sure how many rounds were fired or, how many engagements (we'll have to be patient) but, rather interesting the drones (not engaging a missiles with a deck gun) was on a flight path that put them in-range of the Carney.
See last paragraph-
https://news.usni.org/2023/10/23/uss-dwight-d-eisenhower-midway-across-atlantic-en-route-to-the-middle-east
Ike will stay in the Med and Ford to the Persian Gulf? Opposite of all I've been hearing. Has there been a change?
I'd vote for this - a threat to sink every ship in the Iranian Navy if the hostages aren't released by X, and X means soon. You hit Iran where you can't hurt civilians, who despise their regime, so you reduce the risk of turning the civilians against us. Even as small as it is, their Navy is still an important asset to the regime. Hitting back at proxies - what does this do?
Heck, end an Iranian Air Force base for all I care. But take out an asset that matters to Iran. The proxies are useful idiots to the Mullahs. And sacrificial lambs.
Khark Island or
wiki:
"In 2011 Iran's refineries had a combined capacity of 1.457 Mbbl/d (231,600 m3/d). The largest refineries have the following capacities: Abadan, 350,000 bbl/d (56,000 m3/d); Esfahan, 284,000 bbl/d (45,200 m3/d); Bandar-e Abbas, 232,000 bbl/d (36,900 m3/d); Tehran, 220,000 bbl/d (35,000 m3/d); Arak, 170,000 bbl/d (27,000 m3/d); and Tabriz, 100,000 bbl/d (16,000 m3/d)"
But we'd need a SPR and more US production...
"But we'd need a SPR and more US production.."
That's not going to happen until the Dems are out of the white house
I wouldn't shed any tears if an accident at Kharg Island shut down Iranian Oil Exports for 10 months or so.
I second your motion. But first, a Bravo Zulu to the crew of Carney. Quick action, apparently well executed. As Sal points out, the Houthis likely had no idea that we had an asset in place to shoot down their birds. And right after finding out about the fate of said birds, there was probably an “Oh, crap!” moment in Yemen. The Houthis are pretty well hanging out in the breeze as regards a sea or airborne assault. There is nothing but sand all around, i.e., clear approaches and fields of fire. A Ranger company should be able to eliminate Yemen as a point of future attacks fairly easily. Doing so has several benefits: removal of a piece from the conflict board, deconfliction of U.S. action from the so-called “Palestinian refugees”, and a clear sign to the Persian-based “12th Imam” crowd that we can play chess as well (think in terms of eliminating that pesky rook or bishop).
I am not at all shocked that Persians would consider Arabs as merely collateral damage in their efforts to destroy all Jews, especially these Arabs. “Palestinians” were never recognized as a legitimate national or ethnic group by the Ottoman Empire. Aside from an insulting reference by the Romans when they began referring to the area as Palestinia following the Wars of the Maccabees, “Palestinians” have only existed in anyone’s mind since the disastrous machinations of American, British, and French politicians during and following WWI. The 1948 Israeli war of independence left Jordan and Egypt with a group of people that neither country wanted. Instead of living with a two state solution, five Arabic countries tried to eliminate Israel as a country and finish the Third Reich’s attempts at genocide. Those five countries outright cheated all of the affected Arabs out of a peaceful life. In the early days of the 20th century, property owners in Damascus and other large cities sold the farm land they owned to Jewish immigrants, thus dispossessing the current Arab farmers trying to just make a living. And they have been cheating them ever since by using them as pawns. Cheat someone and get away with it, and you’ll quickly realize you can do anything you want to those people.
Your comment is thought provoking...
We must assume Saudis would not approve of houthis missiles in their airspace, hence must fly up the Red sea. But in this era of video how could hourhis not know carney was in flight path? Why would they waist missiles etc. What were they testing?
Or they shot at Carney and saying so serves absolutely no purpose to us at present.
Conjecture. They shot at something that they wanted to hit.
Not a ship.
Within 5" gun range. Pretty convenient.
". A Ranger company should be able to eliminate Yemen as a point of future attacks fairly easily"
Just like they eliminated Afghanistan as a point of future attacks, eh?
The U.S. COA in Afghanistan as never clearly defined. Just fluffy “nation building” with no foundation. Hence, twenty plus unproductive years spent wasting people, treasure, and elsewhere opportunities. Yemen COULD be a straight two week in and out if we let warriors make and execute the plan. Otherwise, you would be entirely correct and I would be responsible for another twenty years of body bags.
As the same types of policy people appear to be in charge, I'd expect your last sentence to come to fruition again.
It's always the same types of policy people, left or right. Strategerists gotta strategerize, pundits gotta pun.........
The problem I see is that Netanyahu is tied to attacking Iran and the Arab world will see us as agents of Israel. Self defense is fine but anything else will boomerang on us
Well, think about your position in the real world. Self defense is fine. You can meet violence with violence until the violence is over; what's moral in our personal conduct is moral in international relations.
But, while using violence to defend yourself against an attacker is fine, you can't march around demanding your point of view be honored at the point of a gun. We call that robbery.
Not so sure Sunni Arabs will shed tears for Persian Shiites.
"Last week we deployed UK based F-15E Strike Eagles to Jordan. That is clearly designed to deter Hezbollah in Lebanon and perhaps as part of possible action against Gaza"
Why Jordan? Because it would be a stronger message if we based in Israel?
Doesn't Jordan basing either limit our response options or risk widening the conflict?
Israeli airbases are a bit busy at the moment. Deploying the F-15s to Jordan also sends a message to all concerned; perhaps that Hezbollah, etc. do not have universal or unqualified support in the Arab world?
The US and Iran have been in a DeFacto State of War since November 1979. The Iranians have bombed US Embassies and military Installations throughout the Middle East, attacked US Forces in Iraq and Kurdistan during OIF, OIR. This list goes on.
The only time the Iranians backed down was when the Vincennes took out Iran Air 655. Good ol Robocruiser.
I've discussed with some IC Friends about why now, the Iranians seem really intent on provoking a US Military response in the region. Power Struggle in Tehran among the Hard Liners and Ultra Hard Liners in the Guardian Council? Did the Iranians develop a Nuke or obtain a Nuke from the North Koreans?
If the proverbial Balloon goes up in the Middle East with an Iranian attack in the region, even if the US moderates their response, you can be sure the Israelis wont.
Don't forget the Iranians theological belief that cataclysmic events are needed to bring forth their hidden imam. Their risk/reward analysis and decision making will not be the same as what the U.S., Israel or rational people would decide.
Fixing Iran's theocratic crazy leadership is NOT a vital U.S. national interest, nor is preserving every border drawn on every map. Bad people do bad things and we are too broke, and militarily too weak any more to be the world's policeman and nation builder.
It is foolish to shove our noses closer to a crazy thug and dare them to punch us. The first rule for winning a gun fight is to avoid the gun fight if at all possible.
To reward Iran with $6 billion ransom for 5 hostages was a huge mistake, and incentivized their proxies to seize more hostages.
Endorse (and aid) the Israelis in their essential mission of destroying Hamas, but stay out of the ring.
The 6 billion was Iranian money.
It was our money until we gave it back.
It was never our money.
A crafty lawyer, CPA, bureaucrat team could argue otherwise.
And do we have a supply of all of those!
Our wizards could have made it so.
Why now? Biden and a weak US
Minor correction: CARNEY has been back in Mayport since 2020. ROOSEVELT is a Rota ship detached to the FORD CSG.
There's also the ~500 Americans that live/reside in Gaza that Hamas is refusing to allow to leave - American human shields.
From what I’ve read those are dual citizens. It’s not Barb & Bill, it’s Phawtea & Mohammad.
So? Sixty-two countries allow dual citizenship with the US., including Italy, which I guessing by your name, is where your lineage originates. Are you implying that people from Middle Eastern countries should not be allowed to be US citizens? Is America for white people only? There was a time early last century when lots of Americans didn't want to let Italians in. https://immigrantinvest.com/blog/dual-citizenship-for-us-citizens-en/
The idiotic things some morons can impute to statements with nu supporting context are always comedic and usually stupid. Like yours.
Assume you mean 'no' rather than 'nu.' FYI, there is an edit option for the messages (click on the ellipses for a menu). So then what do you think the writer implied from his explicit differentiation between Middle Eastern names & European (traditional American) names?
The edit function is not available from my iPhone. As to the other: He made an invalid assumption I am Italian which is neither true nor relevant to the discussion. He was just demonstrating his stupidity.
" Is America for white people only?"
No, but it should be for Americans only. As the oath of citizenship states, in English;
" I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same"
Nothing in that oath about duality. If someone wants "dual citizenship", I am willing to give them one (1) day per year to celebrate their duality; Irish have St. Patrick's day, Italians have Columbus day, Mexicans have Cinqo de Mayo, Iranians can have Ayatollah day or whatever. That's it. The other 364 days are America day.
Can't really disagree too much with that. Anyone who's an American citizen should have America as their primary loyalty. (BTW, you left out Germans, I guess we get Oktoberfest.)
But as far as immigration is concerned, the system is totally broken. There are millions of people willing to be here temporarily to do jobs that Americans won't do - landscaping, harvesting crops, cleaning peoples homes, & the like. There should be a much larger guest worker program. And people who would like to become Americans because they come from countries with repressive regimes, or even poor countries, and can contribute to the national good in fields like those STEM-related, there should be a pathway to allow them to come & contribute to America & earn citizenship. I myself am a naturalized citizen (although a toddler at the time) originally adopted and brought from Germany. Probably the best thing that ever happened to me. And I repaid the debt in part by serving 12 years in the Army, including 3 yrs in Fulda, FRG (1988-1991) where I had a front row seat for the fall of the USSR & the reunification of Germany. Witnessed history.
I do not believe the "do jobs that Americans won't do" argument. The larger labor force depresses wages.
I do not believe that without massive uneducated immigration we'd all be sitting around in dilapidated houses with overgrown lawns, allowing our yards to return to the wilderness and starving to death because no one will cook our food for us.
Americans have become entitled & decadent. For example: "Felbab-Brown explains that many of the jobs occupied by undocumented workers in the United States are physically demanding jobs that Americans do not want, such as gutting fish or work on farm fields." (https://www.brookings.edu/articles/do-immigrants-steal-jobs-from-american-workers/). The wages that you'd have to pay Americans to do the menial and/or physically demanding jobs that immigrants do would result in huge increases in the costs of those services & products. Americans are addicted to low prices & having to pay $10 for a head of lettuce or $100/day for lawn care would quickly put those goods & services out of reach to a broad swath of the American populace. Additionally, cost increases of that magnitude would further fuel inflationary pressures.
" The larger labor force depresses wages. ..."
Racist, xenophobic, greedy, capitalist right-wing extremist!!
Oops, almost forgot---Trump loving MAGAt!
"BTW, you left out Germans,"
My apologies, but I had to draw the line somewhere. I am actually rather fond of Germany.
" jobs that Americans won't do - landscaping, harvesting crops, cleaning peoples homes, & the like"
Sorry, but that's BS. I spent a good part of my working life doing those jobs, including cleaning a helluva lot of toilets, and the folks working right along side of me were white, native-born, English speaking Americans. I would, incidentally, recommend a TV series(?), "Dirty Jobs", and its creator Mike Rowe, who has a website "mikeroweworks".
It does make a good sound bite, though, and a glib excuse for more-immigration-at-any-cost enthusiasts.
Curious... what’s your source for 500
Axios quoting Al Jazeera citing US govt numbers. https://www.axios.com/2023/10/24/us-citizens-israel-gaza-lebanon-egypt-jordan
> None of this would happen without Iran’s backing, money, weapons, and larger network of proxies that all form different fingers of a fist aimed at Israel.
And none of this would happen without America's backing, money, larger weapons, and smaller network of proxies directed at Tehran!
/s
Look, all the support we give the IDF, and yet still they take their orders from Bibi, not Biden. We cajole, not control; we have influence but it's not unlimited.
Forget that Iran deals with the same complexities in it's relationship with Hamas, and that invites miscalculation.
Which gets to my real beef with "none of this would happen" as a claim. If the President of the United States and the Supreme Leader of Iran met and made an agreement for both to simply withdraw from the whole Israel/Palestine conflict—and both those leaders referred the agreement their respective democratic assemblies—and both those assemblies ratified the agreement, which became a treaty—and both sides honored the treaty—if all those things happened, this would still be happening!
In fact, what does the front porch think is more achievable? The things I've described? Or bringing peace to the Holy Land?
BZ to the CARNEY CIC team. The last time that a DDG 51 Class CIC team was in the news was when CIC was used as a secondary ship's head.
If we're really serious, splash the next Iranian boat that harasses our ships entering the PG.
What every reader of this blog should do is sit down and put pen to paper and write your Congressman. Tell him how proud you are of the Navy's response to the war, and DEMAND THAT HE FUND THE CONSTRUCTION OF MORE SHIPS LIKE THE ONE THAT SHOT DOWN IRAN'S MISSILES.
Somebody put it better than I did, and I think he wrote that we should "build TICOs until the cows come home." That asset has shown value, now is the time to press for more of them.
cut, paste, and mail this comment.....SNAIL MAIL. paper has Ssoooo much more impact on congress critters
Congress gave us the LCS program.
Please tell them to design a modern ship to stick the combat system on first.
The Carney is a Burke, not a Tico...
Oh goody, time for another round of the Middle East version of the game "Proxie Whack-a-Mole." So rather than darting here and fro plinking terrorists with Hellfire missiles, this time we will be all about plinking slow moving drones and cheap cruise missiles with expensive anti-air missiles. Perhaps this will avail us of an opportunity to lower the transaction costs of dealing with this garbage rather than employing SM-2's.